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Live or Sterile? Why I choose Live

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Leftwich

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I wonder. Since benificial bacteria "bennies" are living organisms, could one keep them alive in the medium by just using sweets to keep them fed? This would mean you don't need to apply them as often as is recommended saving money. I personally operate on the theory that the bennies added to my promix hp by the manufacturer will be there for the duration if one uses a source or carbs and doesn't apply anything harmful like h2o2 or chlorine. What do you all think?
 

TheCapn

New Member
I wonder. Since benificial bacteria "bennies" are living organisms, could one keep them alive in the medium by just using sweets to keep them fed? This would mean you don't need to apply them as often as is recommended saving money. I personally operate on the theory that the bennies added to my promix hp by the manufacturer will be there for the duration if one uses a source or carbs and doesn't apply anything harmful like h2o2 or chlorine. What do you all think?

I think, the mycos and other beneficial bacteria will continue to live, but not in high as populations as if you replenished them weekly. It is a VERY bad idea to attempt to feed the bacteria in your system, as you will be feeding the good and the bad bacteria at the same time. This can actually trigger a slime outbreak or pythium. The idea behind the tea, is you breed an army of good bacteria in the bucket, and it eats up the sweets. Then you are only adding the army to your medium, not the sweets.

As far as cost, you can buy the ingredients, and then brew dozens of batches of tea for very low cost, and add a slew of new beneficial bacteria every week. The results from doing this are clear. When you price the cost of tea, it's literally under 50 cents a batch. It is cheaper and much more effective and diverse than using the beneficials on their own.

If you're running organic nutrients in your coco, you have a better chance of them living longer. Nutrients at high PPM slowly kill off the bennies. I believe salt based nutes are worse on them. The tea is also much more diverse than what's included in the promix. Growing in a medium like coco / promix is not nearly as "risky" for root disease than a hydro method like DWC or aero.

In summary, in my opinion, the benefit of adding the beneficial bacteria is the number ONE thing you can do to grow plants faster, healthier, and more resistant to root disease. It is well worth the trouble and small expense, no matter what your growing style.

One thing for sure... it's good to establish a colony of bacteria early (I start even when I germinate seeds).
 

Red0ctober

New Member
Great info Capn! I have been meaning to get into beneficial microorganisms for a while. I run both low pressure aero and DWC systems. A few quick questions:

1. Heisenberg seems to have been advocating "Mycogrow Soluble" from FungiPerfecti over GreatWhite (which he feels is way overpriced) and Mykos. He says it is simultaneously more cost effective and a superior blend. I will post the link. I know Paul Stammets is a genius and would not put out a crappy product. Do you have any experience with it?
MycoGrow? Soluble--1 lb - Fungi.com

2. For Aero applications or even DWC, is it okay to strain the tea before applying it to the roots/rez? If so, what method of filtration would you recommend?

3. Alternately, would removing the plants netpots and simply dunking the root system in the tea for a few minutes each be an effective means of applying the tea? Or does the tea need to go directly into the rez and be constantly applied to the roots in order to be effective?

Thanks for all the great info :)
 

TheCapn

New Member
Great info Capn! I have been meaning to get into beneficial microorganisms for a while. I run both low pressure aero and DWC systems. A few quick questions:

1. Heisenberg seems to have been advocating "Mycogrow Soluble" from FungiPerfecti over GreatWhite (which he feels is way overpriced) and Mykos. He says it is simultaneously more cost effective and a superior blend. I will post the link. I know Paul Stammets is a genius and would not put out a crappy product. Do you have any experience with it?
MycoGrow? Soluble--1 lb - Fungi.com

2. For Aero applications or even DWC, is it okay to strain the tea before applying it to the roots/rez? If so, what method of filtration would you recommend?

3. Alternately, would removing the plants netpots and simply dunking the root system in the tea for a few minutes each be an effective means of applying the tea? Or does the tea need to go directly into the rez and be constantly applied to the roots in order to be effective?

Thanks for all the great info :)

Hey RO, good questions!

1. I've been using the mycogrow from Fungi.com for over a year. I bought the 1lb container of it. It will last me for years. I use a pinch of myco grow and a pinch of great white. Yes the GW is over priced, but I believe it is more diverse. Of course that may simply be "marketing" that makes me believe that. I have mentioned the mycogrow in another thread as well. The reason I didn't mention it in the original recipe above, is because if given the choice, I would rather just use the GW. Yes, it's expensive, but my $45 jar of it has lasted me almost two years. Bottom line, the more diverse, the better, but don't add random ingredients because you think it will make it "better". Check with Heisenberg or myself or someone experienced with the tea and pythium before adding other stuff.

2. Yes. I use filter floss that you can buy from the aquarium store, but you could use cheese cloth, a sterile gauze pad, or simply a cotton tshirt.

3. I don't recommend removing net pots and dunking. Every time you remove a netpot, roots scrape against the sides of the lid and break, exposing places for pythium to take hold. New roots are fragile - handle with care. 8-12 ounces of tea poured over the root crown is plenty enough. More tea than that doesn't benefit the plant, and could cause PH swings.

Good luck with the tea!
 

Red0ctober

New Member
Hey RO, good questions!

1. I've been using the mycogrow from Fungi.com for over a year. I bought the 1lb container of it. It will last me for years. I use a pinch of myco grow and a pinch of great white. Yes the GW is over priced, but I believe it is more diverse. Of course that may simply be "marketing" that makes me believe that. I have mentioned the mycogrow in another thread as well. The reason I didn't mention it in the original recipe above, is because if given the choice, I would rather just use the GW. Yes, it's expensive, but my $45 jar of it has lasted me almost two years. Bottom line, the more diverse, the better, but don't add random ingredients because you think it will make it "better". Check with Heisenberg or myself or someone experienced with the tea and pythium before adding other stuff.

2. Yes. I use filter floss that you can buy from the aquarium store, but you could use cheese cloth, a sterile gauze pad, or simply a cotton tshirt.

3. I don't recommend removing net pots and dunking. Every time you remove a netpot, roots scrape against the sides of the lid and break, exposing places for pythium to take hold. New roots are fragile - handle with care. 8-12 ounces of tea poured over the root crown is plenty enough. More tea than that doesn't benefit the plant, and could cause PH swings.

Good luck with the tea!

Awesome, thanks Capn! :)

So no issues dumping the tea directly into the rez
Do you apply the tea over the course of the entire grow, or just during the first few weeks of veg/flower?
(I pretty much go straight to flower once clones are rooted)
I imagine that once the bennies get a foothold and colonize the roots, you wouldn't need to apply the tea anymore.
 

TheCapn

New Member
Awesome, thanks Capn! :)

So no issues dumping the tea directly into the rez
Do you apply the tea over the course of the entire grow, or just during the first few weeks of veg/flower?
(I pretty much go straight to flower once clones are rooted)
I imagine that once the bennies get a foothold and colonize the roots, you wouldn't need to apply the tea anymore.

The bacteria need to live "ON" something. They live on the in sides of your reservoir, on hydroton, or wherever. However if they are not on your roots, they don't provide much benefit. It's best to pour them over the root crown, at the base of the stalk.

I use it once a week in veg, then up thru the first 6 weeks of flower. You're right, it's most important in the beginning, but the salt based nutrients aren't good for them.... that's why I keep adding them. It's part of my weekly routine, so it's easy. "No big deal, Julian". I would suggest you keep adding. On my last batch of clones, I soaked my rockwool cubes in diluted tea. They all rooted great!

PearlyWhites.jpg
 

Red0ctober

New Member
Okay cool! Those are some very healthy and clean looking roots I must say!
I actually go media-less - no hydroton, rockwool or anything. Totally bare bones.
Just a plant in a 3" netpot held in place by a neoprene disk
Nothing in the rez but H&G base nutes & maybe some DM Silica
Maybe this works to my disadvantage with bennies because like you said, they need to live ON something
but applying the tea throughout the grow isn't a problem

Now I do use tap water in my rez. I hope that is not an issue for the bennies?
I know you need RO water to make the tea (not a problem)
my tap water is quite good, about 150ppm, but I do have an RO as well
so if RO is essential, I could do it. It's just that tap water is much more convenient
 

Red0ctober

New Member
Ah! Other than passing it through an RO filter, how does one dechlorinate water?

Oh also, I forgot to ask, can/should you use tea or bennies in a cloner?
Anything bad about that?
 

TheCapn

New Member
Ah! Other than passing it through an RO filter, how does one dechlorinate water?

Oh also, I forgot to ask, can/should you use tea or bennies in a cloner?
Anything bad about that?


>>>how does one dechlorinate water?
Is google down?

>>can/should you use tea or bennies in a cloner?
Scroll up to my last post.
 

Red0ctober

New Member
>>>how does one dechlorinate water?
Is google down?

>>can/should you use tea or bennies in a cloner?
Scroll up to my last post.

Seems like vitamin C or dechlorination tablets are the easiest, other than leaving the water out for 24 hours and hoping the chlorine evaporates. But if chloramine is used instead of chlorine, evaporation might not work. I'm not sure what my municipality uses, so I'll go with the tablets.

I don't use rockwool in my cloner, just neoprene collars. I'd have to dump some tea into the cloner itself, but I assume that wouldn't cause any problems. As soon as the stems pop some roots, I bet they'd love it
 

TheCapn

New Member
If you're serious about your grow, go get a hydrologic 100 RO unit. They are under $200. At the very least, a carbon canister filter like you can buy at any home improvement store, usually under $50.

Since you're talking about RDWC, I'm assuming you're serious about your set up. Setting up a multi-site RDWC system without RO water is kind of like pulling into the gas station with your BMW and putting in $5 worth of gas. :19:
 

c526

Member of the Month: Jan 2015 - Plant of the Month: Jan 2015
as well as this tea works indoors,my biggest surprise came when I used it on my outdoor vegetable garden

Cap'n-- only changes I've made to you're/Heisenberg recipe, is that I put my a.f. into pantyhose with an airstone inside the pantyhose, then I really have no reason to filter afterwards,, my question is,,

can the a.f be -reused once its dried out??

I hate to seem cheap,but when making 50 gallons of this for an outdoor garden,it can get expensive(garden is 200 by 75)

also,do you/have you ever given the Beneficial's a place to live??lava rock in reservoir ??

I did read that whole 100 page+ thread, I need to stop that because I always seem more confused then ever,information overload
 

TheCapn

New Member
as well as this tea works indoors,my biggest surprise came when I used it on my outdoor vegetable garden

Cap'n-- only changes I've made to you're/Heisenberg recipe, is that I put my a.f. into pantyhose with an airstone inside the pantyhose, then I really have no reason to filter afterwards,, my question is,,

can the a.f be -reused once its dried out??

I hate to seem cheap,but when making 50 gallons of this for an outdoor garden,it can get expensive(garden is 200 by 75)

also,do you/have you ever given the Beneficial's a place to live??lava rock in reservoir ??

I did read that whole 100 page+ thread, I need to stop that because I always seem more confused then ever,information overload

Good questions, c526. What I do is unplug the air pump for 10 minutes, then I dip my water pitcher and and scoop out the tea and use it on my plants. When it's mostly gone, I put some more water in (diluting what is left) and I use that on the outdoor garden, and I just pour out the A.F. on the garden too :)

>>>airstone inside the pantyhose
That's good. If you're doing dwc, aero, or "medium-less" growing, this is good to do. If you're growing in dirt, no need to filter at all, you can even pour the A.F. into your pot. If you're growing in rockwool, a little dirty water doesn't hurt.

>>>can the a.f be -reused once its dried out??
No, it can't be used again. Anything that was alive in the A.F. should have woken up and then was used up. My suggestion would be to dilute the tea more to make it go further. I'm sure there are thousands of microbes in there. 8-12oz on one plant is all you need.

>>>have you ever given the Beneficial's a place to live?
Yes, the roots. ha ha! Seriously though, people do put media for the bacteria to live on, but it's not doing your plant much good sitting in the reservoir. I fact, I think it's better to NOT give them somewhere to live, so they float around until they hit the roots. (my own theory)

>>>information overload
For sure. I've read the entire thing too. It's mostly people saying "Can I use this, or substitute that in the tea?" It is best to scroll thru and ONLY read the posts that Heisenberg makes.
 
I agree, beware of Hygrozyme- never again. I had a great ebb & flow that Performed (except for a spider mite or two) and then my mentor had me add Hygroyme and Rock root tonic. Instant slime and I lost two grows in a row- that is expensive and demoralizing. Almost makes you want to give up. I am in the middle of a productive grow and am going to definitely start the tea recipe on my next go around. Mike
 

TheCapn

New Member
I agree, beware of Hygrozyme- never again. I had a great ebb & flow that Performed (except for a spider mite or two) and then my mentor had me add Hygroyme and Rock root tonic. Instant slime and I lost two grows in a row- that is expensive and demoralizing. Almost makes you want to give up. I am in the middle of a productive grow and am going to definitely start the tea recipe on my next go around. Mike

Thanks for the post, MM. This is similar to what I've heard from at least a dozen other people. It seems to trigger a slime outbreak.

>>>I lost two grows in a row- that is expensive and demoralizing. Almost makes you want to give up.

I have been there. Months with NOTHING. I would get clones up to 10" tall and then bam! Pythium again. Awful. The only GOOD thing that came out of it, is I learned more about this hobby in that 6 months than most people learn in years. Since I switched to growing in hydroton, I haven't seen the dreaded root rot again.
 
How late into flower do you use the tea? I have all the stuff on the way except for Rootsexcellerator which I could not find. I use the Flora Blend with my Gen Hydro nutrients already- is this a tea? Had same experience, learned a lot at this site . Thanks all. Mike
 

TheCapn

New Member
How late into flower do you use the tea? I have all the stuff on the way except for Rootsexcellerator which I could not find. I use the Flora Blend with my Gen Hydro nutrients already- is this a tea? Had same experience, learned a lot at this site . Thanks all. Mike

>>How late into flower do you use the tea?

Almost all the way to the end. In the last couple weeks I don't bother. But I make a batch every week for veg plants so I may as well use it.

>>I have all the stuff on the way except for Rootsexcellerator which I could not find.

It's over priced and not at all necessary

>>I use the Flora Blend with my Gen Hydro nutrients already- is this a tea?

That's actually a really good question. I've talked about my success with florablend in many of my articles, but it's still very much overlooked by most growers. Here is a great article:

GrowGH Blog » FloraBlend rocks, but what does it do??

3097860199_b0bd99ca43.jpg
 

k5kolodzi

New Member
so is it more beneficial to add to the reservoir of a hydro setup or poor directly on the root base itself (bucket on feed cycle full of water of course). seems like it'd be a more concentrated dose. I ask because I have a 48 pot system and I would want to be the most effective. Would it even matter?

How much of this tea would you add to dirt? Lets say a 2 gallon pot?
 
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