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Live or Sterile? Why I choose Live

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TheCapn

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k5,

You may want to check my blog as there are better instructions there.

Add 8-12 oz at the base of the stalk, no matter what grow method. It is more effective that way.

48 pots, that's a high plant count!
 

k5kolodzi

New Member
I read through it but must have missed something. I have a 20 month old son who thinks he is a ninja sent here to climb every thing i own. I makes it increasingly difficult to stay on task.

And 48 is alot of work. BUT, i do not usually veg for more than 2-3 weeks. I am happy with 1.5 ounces per plant.
 

k5kolodzi

New Member
Got 5 gallons bubblin' as we speak. Thanks cap'n!! I had one question. I dont mind straining this, but is there a substitute for the A.F. you have had success with? Maybe the bat poo in liquid form? If this is the bees knees, then ill be straining. Just curious. Like you stated, you can research but there are 9 wrong answers out of 10
 

TheCapn

New Member
Got 5 gallons bubblin' as we speak. Thanks cap'n!! I had one question. I dont mind straining this, but is there a substitute for the A.F. you have had success with? Maybe the bat poo in liquid form? If this is the bees knees, then ill be straining. Just curious. Like you stated, you can research but there are 9 wrong answers out of 10

Nope. The ancient forest is the most important part.

Don't use bat poop or any other ingredients that aren't in the recipe:

Tea recipe: How to get pearly white roots and accellerate vegetative growth - Blogs - 420 Magazine ®
 

k5kolodzi

New Member
Thanks again. I feel giddy like a schoolgirlI I really want to try this
 

k5kolodzi

New Member
Cap'n i have some questions if you dont mind...
Can this tea be bubbled and then stored for a day or so? Or does it have to be bubbled right up until use?
Say i have bubbled it for 48 hours but my plant do not need to be watered as of yet, can i just keep bubbling away until use? Should i add more molasses after 48 hours as food for the bacteria?
 

TheCapn

New Member

shanker65

New Member
Hi Capn. I've read all the articles in your sig. I really appreciate you sharing your information. Hypothetically lets say a Canadian dude has picked up all the ingredients to mix up some Heisenberg root tea and is trying to make a very similar setup to yours, however he has a few questions! He is completely new to this. It's a good buddy and close neighbour of mine! Strain would be S.L.H. Top Feed to waste in Rockwool.

- When watering seedlings in 1" rockwool starter cubes and also in their first nursery pot how much water do you see come out the bottom. Approximately how long between watering at this stage? Does the Heisenberg root tea replace your normal watering for that day? (Don't want him to end up overwatering his hypothetical, non existent seedlings).

- What temperature do you keep your tea at before feeding?

- When the plants get a little larger. does he ad some heisenberg tea between the normal watering schedule? (Making sure not to apply nutrients within a few hrs of adding the tea) Whats your watering schedule when the plants are in their final pot?

- How late during flower do you apply the tea?

- What's your take on flushing throughout the grow? Havn't seen you mention it much. I saw on a greenhouse vid that they were flushing 3 times between weeks 2-6 and they let the plant dry out for a whole week after each flush. Reason I ask is because flushing that often would seem to leave very little time for nutrients and tea.

- When, How often and What if anything do you foliar spray your plants with? (Not related to heisenberg tea sorry, but thinking on foliar spraying once a week or so with SM-90 since he can't find neem oil)

- You mentioned that you use a recirc. Top feed system during flower. How do you know what nutrients to replace in your reservoir after its been through the plants? Do you just top it up to your target PPM? Wondering how much the PPM usually changes after the plants have drank some. Can you just run your pump less so you have less runoff and then can just waste it?

- How far into flower do you continue to top and/or L.S.T?

- I know I saw this somewhere, but you apply the tea right from the seedling stage correct? How large should a seedling be before it starts getting cal-mag, flora blend and aquasheild in its normal R.O water?

Sorry for all the questions and also if some may have been asked before. Been reading as much as I possibly can to help out my bud and needed to ask a couple of my own q's. Probably have too much info going through my head.

Thanks very much Cap. Have a good one! I appreciate any help an extreme amount!
 
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TheCapn

New Member
Shanker,

It means a lot when I get messages like this. There are so many people converting to top feed rockwool, and it's nice to know how it's going for them. You've asked some very great questions. Many of them are answered in my articles, but they are so good, I'm going to take the time to knock them out here anyway.

>>>Top Feed to waste in Rockwool.

You will only feed to waste during early veg. During late veg and flower, you will want to recirculate, or else you will waste too many nutrients.

>>>When watering seedlings in 1" rockwool starter cubes and also in their first nursery pot how much water do you see come out the bottom.

Great Q. You don't need to worry about this. You can literally pour a gallon thru the cube and you don't have to worry about it being too much water. The rockwool holds water and oxygen. When seeds are sprouting, I use a warm pad underneath to accelerate germination. The pad should be barely warm to the touch. The seedlings will grow faster if they are in a dome. But if you see a lot of water on the inside of the dome, it's TOO humid in there, and you could get stem rot (damping off) and the seedlings fall over and die. Take the dome off when you see the first two serrated leaves start. I use aquashield or some tea in pain water when I am watering seeds that are just sprouting.

In the dome


Plain water with a little tea or aquashield: (still in the dome)


Here I add a TINY bit of nutrients, maybe 100 ppm, and this is when I take the dome off.


>>>Approximately how long between watering at this stage?
I do once a day for sprouting seeds, until they are about 4" tall and then I do twice a day. Again, it's hard to water too much. Transplant up pot sizes conservatively.

You can see here I put the little block in a bigger pot (but not much bigger) with cubes around it. Here I take it to about 250-300ppm.


>>>Does the Heisenberg root tea replace your normal watering for that day? (Don't want him to end up overwatering his hypothetical, non existent seedlings).
Yes

>>>When the plants get a little larger. do we ad some heisenberg tea between the normal watering schedule? (Making sure not to apply nutrients within a few hrs of adding the tea) Whats your watering schedule when the plants are in their final pot?
For plants up to about 4" tall, you can irrigate once a day with ~300ppm+the ppm of your tap water. You can use the tea in replacement for the feeding for that day. As they get bigger, you can go two to four times a day. Add your tea an hour or so after you did your regular irrigation.

At this point you will want to go about twice a day.


Here are some pictures of a way to make an auto feeder with a timer and some drip line from the hardware store.


Hard to see in the picture but I made a little PVC manifold. YOu can also pick up a manifold at the hydro store for around $15.


>>>How late during flower do you apply the tea?
Almost all the way. It won't hurt to go all the way, but really isn't needed as much when you only have 2 weeks to go.

>>>What's your take on flushing throughout the grow? Havn't seen you mention it much. I saw on a greenhouse vid that they were flushing 3 times between weeks 2-6 and they let the plant dry out for a whole week after each flush. Reason I ask is because flushing that often would seem to leave very little time for nutrients and tea.

The vid you were watching was probably on dirt or coco. With cubes, you don't need to worry about any imbalances in the rockwool. Just irrigate for 15 minutes at a time, to ensure the PH and PPM inside your medium is the same as your reservoir water. DO NOT USE ANY FLUSHING AGENTS. There is no need to "FLUSH" throughout the grow when you're using top feel rockwool. Essentially you are flushing with res water every time you irrigate, so nothing "builds up" in the root zone.

>>>When, How often and What if anything do you foliar spray your plants with? (Not related to heisenberg tea sorry, but thinking on foliar spraying once a week or so with SM-90 since I can't find neem oil)

It's expensive, but I use Dutch master Liquid light and saturator at 30ml/liter each, to make up my foliar spray. It is the best and DOES make a difference. If you don't want to pay for that, use florablend at ~40ml/liter for a spray. If you don't have florablend, go get it, no mater what nutrients you are using. I use it at 4ml/gal from small plant, all the way thru flower.

GENERAL HYDROPONICS: Supplement Plants from Seedling to Harvest with FloraBlend®

>>>You mentioned that you use a recirc. Top feed system during flower. How do you know what nutrients to replace in your reservoir after its been through the plants? Do you just top it up to your target PPM? Wondering how much the PPM usually changes after the plants have drank some. Can you just run your pump less so you have less runoff and then can just waste it?

This is a great question, and I was just talking to another member about this yesterday. Don't run your pump less. Recirculate that water in flower, 15 minutes at a time, twice a day! For your reservoir, with recirculating top feed, a good rule of thumb, is to hold ONE WEEK's worth of nutrient solution. I'm sure you will find a good routine, but for example, if you have 4 plants using 25 gallons a week, then you would set your res at 25 gallons every time you mix up new solution. 3-4 days later, you will have ~12 gals left in the res, top it off back up to 25 with PLAIN water. Another 3-4 days later, when you are down to 12 again, throw away ~6 gallons of it, then mix up 20 gals of solution and start the process over again. Make sense? When your res is down to 12 gallons, check your PPM. If it is way too high, then you are mixing up your nutrients too high. Back off 100ppm or so.

Doing it this way will help prevent any nutrient deficiencies, or overages of any one component. IN that remaining water in the res, I promise you, something is lacking! It is temping to just keep topping up with water or nutrient solution, but if you don't do at least partial water changes, you will run into trouble, eventually.

>>>How far into flower do you continue to top and/or L.S.T?
Again, great Q. LST is a very broad term and is thrown around way to much by stoners everywhere. So I like to be specific with the training I do and avoid that term when possible. Most of my training is done during veg. Whether I use a trellis in flower or not, I don't use a trellis in veg. When I go to flower, I usually use a 4' x 4' trellis or screen (SCROG) and I push it down on top of the plant as far as a can (without breaking it) so the plant gets spread out. My goal is to fill the entire screen with bud. I try NOT to top when I go to flower. I top a lot during veg, but topping in flower can disturb auxins, and delay flowering slightly, by up to a week. However, if I have an unruly strain that stretches too fast, I'll top the tallest ones to slow them down, so I don't run out of height.

You really need to read this article: How To: Bend and top your way to a 1 pound monster

FewDaysLater.jpg


>>>I know I saw this somewhere, but you apply the tea right from the seedling stage correct?
yes

>>>How large should a seedling be before it starts getting cal-mag, flora blend and aquasheild in its normal R.O water?
Above, where I mentioned 100ppm, you can start using it. What I do is mix up nutrients according to my recipe, as described here: How to: Fast vegetative growth - Nutrient Recipe - Blogs - 420 Magazine ® then I take out a 1/2 pitcher of the solution, and then dilute it with RO water. Here is a time lapse picture of just 11 days growth:
TimLapse.jpg


>>>Sorry for all the questions and also if some may have been asked before. Been reading as much as I possibly can and needed to ask a couple of my own q's. Probably have too much info going through my head.

No problem. I've probably given you more than you asked for. It is a lot to take it. But don't get overwhelmed. Take one step at a time, and there's no reason you can't get the same results I do. Feel free to PM with specific questions. In my new article, I talk about seeds and seedlings a lot, you may find it useful:

Phenotype Hunting, Serious BubbleGum - Blogs - 420 Magazine ®
 

shanker65

New Member
Thanks very much for such a great reply! I can't PM yet with such a low post count so I have a few more questions! Hope you don't mind one more post here in this thread.

I'm sure I will refer to your reply many times in the near future. I have already read all your articles and I'm sure I will also be referring to them again several times as I find it to be some of the best info available. I think the first article I read from you was the "How to bend your way to a 1lb monster" Really enjoyed it and it's what got me hooked on reading your stuff.

I'm trying to convince my buddy to "do as you do". Same nutrients and all. Same size SCROG as you, 7gal fabric pots (Can't find the cool pots u have). 600w hps + 2 4ft T5's and 2 3ft T5's. Only thing missing from his nutrients would be dutch master liquid light and saturator. Great White couldn't be found nearby, so it's being replaced with ZHO.

Lets say It's Day nine since 2 Super Lemon Haze beans poked out of their 1" cube in their search for light. They are chilling out in small nursery pots in a 7" humidity dome on a 82* heatmat under 6 3ft T5's at 72%rh and 80.5* air temp.

- If you were limited to the 4x4 scrog area would you just choose the better of the two plants when it comes time to put them into flower? (Possibly keep the other in veg. for a while if it's nice looking) New to this and am scared to mess my buddy's harvest up.

- Love your 1/2" PVC dripper, but havn't found the 1/2" PVC and all the proper adaptors (Probably didn't look hard enough yet). Would it be cool to drill lots of 1/16" (or slightly larger) holes right into a 1/2" water line and then plug the end of it for use as a dripper?

Would love to show you a couple pictures, but my buddy won't let me. I'm just trying to learn for some fun (Super enjoyable so far, a little stressful at times though) Been an everyday smoker for almost 15years and am tired of giving money to people I don't know and am also unsure of the quality of what I get in return.

Here is the last question and I'm sorry it's un-realated.

- There is one black spot/smudge on the tip of a 9 day old seedling leaf :( Looks like a leaf on a normal tree from outside like a catapiller started to eat some, but that's kind of impossible as the room was just constructed and sanatized very well, also don't see a sign of a bug anywhere.
- It doesn't seem to be spreading and is very localized. There are no holes in the leaf, just slight black discoloration on the top kind of near the tip (the right half of the last 3/4 of the leaf) The black can be seen through the bottom of the leaf also.
- She hadn't been given anything but R.O water previous to that; Two days before the black spot showed up1/4tsp of AquaSheild to 1L of R.O. water was added and 3tsp was given to each seedling. The spot is only on one of the two seedlings and does not seem to be having and effect on growth.

- Currently only Have access to FloraBlend, AquaSheild, GH Grow, Micro and Bloom. Waiting on some other ingredients.

Thanks again Capn. :) Your knowledge and help means a lot to me for sure.
 

Red0ctober

New Member
Hi Capn,

So after much research and reading, I've decided to try my own recipe for tea. It is not entirely my own and is based off of combinations of things that others have done so we'll see if it works. I probably won't get your feedback until long after I've posted this so if I'm making a mistake...well...there's really no way to prevent it at this point.

I made a batch of tea using John Evans Bountea system. I've read growers have used it with good results. It may be a bit overpriced, but isn't everything in this hobby! I am using his Alaskan humisoil which is what Ancient Forest is. They're probably the same thing. I've also used his BioActivator, which is a fuel source for the bennies during the brewing process, kind of a substitute for molasses. Then I've included Marine Mineral Magic M3 which is a kelp based veg fertilizer with potash and Yucca Shidigera, NPK 8-1-2. For the bennies I am using Mycogrow Soluble which has all the same species as RootWeb(that I bought anyway) and many more. I have compared it to Great White as well and they are virtually identical. The dilution rate is from 5-8:1 water to tea.

So here goes the experiment: I have one sick plant that has a decent root mass but stopped uptaking water about a week ago. This is a slight exaggeration because the plant isn't drooping, but the water level in the bucket hasn't really changed over a weeks time. Much of the lower growth has yellowed and died, the top still looks okay, but stems are rather stiff and dry except at the very top. So I figure this will be a good plant to try this on since it may not survive anyway. Because I won't be able to judge the efficacy of the tea from this one sick plant alone (that would bias the experiment), I plant to give the tea to two healthy plants as well, one that is absolutely thriving, and one other that has been having some very minor pH swing issues.

For all plants, I will do an 8:1 dilution of tea to RO water and use that diluted tea as the nutrient solution in the 5 gal DWC buckets the plants are in. I will also foliar spray the solution on the 3 plants as well. I will add no other nutrients, and will only adjust pH if needed. I will leave the plants in the tea solution for a week before changing the water out. Some RO water may be added over the week if the plants drink a lot. I'll measure the ppm of the diluted tea and make a note of it.

I will report back as to how it affects the plants.

Capn, perhaps you could clarify something for me: I am operating under the assumption that in hydro, compost tea takes the place of synthetic nutrient solution based on what I have read and even what you mentioned in your blog. People seem to say that adding nutrients to a tea can disrupt the balance of the microorganisms and even destroy them. The humisoil compost and mineral magic(kelp based fertilizer), or whatever you are using, acts as the plants food source, and the bacteria/fungal species live symbiotically on the roots, simultaneously fighting off pathogens while aiding in nutrient uptake. Therefore, no external nutrients other than the tea are used during the course of a hydro grow? The tea itself, becomes and takes the place of, nutrient solution - Is this correct?

Alternatively, could you do a week of tea solution, then a week of normal nutrient solution with regular nutrients e.g. GH flora or H&G. What is the ideal method and schedule for tea and nutrients in DWC? This is the only aspect I have confusion over. It is different in soil where the soil soaks up the tea and then you can feed the plant with nutrients a few days later.

Thanks for all the info that made this possible Capn. I am very grateful for your and Heisenberg's research, as well as all others who contributed :)
 

TheCapn

New Member
Hi Capn,

So after much research and reading, I've decided to try my own recipe for tea.

Hundreds of people have cured root rot by using this heisenberg tea. I'm not sure why you would want to change the recipe. I'm assuming you can afford to lose your plants. If so, by all means, experiment. If you want to save your plants, start over with the heisenberg recipe.

>>>I have one sick plant that has a decent root mass but stopped uptaking water about a week ago. This is a slight exaggeration because the plant isn't drooping, but the water level in the bucket hasn't really changed over a weeks time. Much of the lower growth has yellowed and died, the top still looks okay, but stems are rather stiff and dry except at the very top.

They yellow from the bottom up because the plant can't uptake nutrients, so it uses up the green, starting from the bottom. The plant won't wilt until it's almost dead. By the time you're reading this, I suspect it is too far gone.

>>>I plant to give the tea to two healthy plants as well, one that is absolutely thriving, and one other that has been having some very minor pH swing issues.

Most likely you will lose the other two as well, if you don't act now. I'm not trying to be a "downer" but inevitably, spores will get into all your buckets by some means, even if it's moving your PH meter from one bucket to the next.

>>>People seem to say that adding nutrients to a tea can disrupt the balance of the microorganisms and even destroy them.

Beneficial bacteria live better in lower PPM, but will benefit your plant at any ppm.

>>>The humisoil compost and mineral magic(kelp based fertilizer), or whatever you are using, acts as the plants food source,

NO it is not a food source

>>>and the bacteria/fungal species live symbiotically on the roots, simultaneously fighting off pathogens while aiding in nutrient uptake.

YES

>>>Therefore, no external nutrients other than the tea are used during the course of a hydro grow? The tea itself, becomes and takes the place of, nutrient solution - Is this correct?

No, this is not correct. You still need nutrients.

If I had rot rot in DWC, and I wanted to save the plants, I would take the plants out of the buckets. I would wash off any dead roots with tap water, and give them a dip in a H2O2 water bath. Then, I would transplant them into grodan grow-cubes or coco. Then water to waste, once a day with 300PPM nutrient solution. 6 hours after watering, I would give them 20oz of tea, directly at the base of the stalk (daily). Foliar feed every other day.

It is incredibly difficult to cure root rot / pythium in DWC. Even if you use the tea, even if you have a chiller and add twice as much air. Adding ZONE, H2O2, doesn't usually help either. The pythium is there and it thrives when roots dangle in water. Transplanting them to media will give you the best chance of recovery.

Either way, you should be taking clones or sewing more seeds now.
 
I used your method and recipe. I had a successful grow and my root balls were awesome.
P10300832.JPG
. I lost 2 grows in a row to root rot and would like to thank you for sharing your cure.
P10300821.JPG
. My root bundles were 4 to 5 times larger; I grow in a 6'x 3' tray and it was one solid root mass. I do use GH Micro and have been told that that could account for the brown color. All looked good, smelled good and was not slimy. I am starting a new grow this week and the tea is going to be a major part of the grow. Thanks again. Mike
 

TheCapn

New Member
Mike, glad to hear it is working out for you. The Heisenberg tea is the ONLY thing I've found to battle root rot. When growing in a tray, they tend to not drain well and it's possible roots are sitting in semi-stagnant water. If you're just using hydroton for medium, I would increase irrigation frequency to about once an hour and make sure the tray is draining well. Jack up one side a bit if you need to.

By the looks of that stalk your plants were pretty good size for growing in a tray. Good job! I like the adjustable trellis; it's simple and effective. If you can afford it, next time, try putting your plants in nursery pots, with a mix of your hydroton and maybe some rockwool grow-cubes. Then put all the plants in the tray. Something like this below. This will keep the plants roots from touching each other, it will give you better drainage, and more room for roots to grow down. The rockwool gives the roots something to "sink in to", instead of just growing AROUND the clay pellets.

 
Thanks for the reply. Good advice; I like the pot idea. These are Air Pots? Just started another grow in the tray, but I also made the tray frame adjustable, so I can tilt it as you suggested. I was watering more frequently, but the plants wee sickly, so I backed off to twice a day. They look great now, so I can bring up the watering frequency.
Thanks Mike
 

TheCapn

New Member
Yes these are the 7 gal air pots you can get on ebay for about $15 each. I like them but you can also use regular pots as well. With you growing in those trays, that reminds me of the "Mr Green" videos. :) I like that guy.
 
I am learning and started with the tray. I like the hydrotron/ rock wool you suggested. Does the hydrotron go on the top layer? I like the ability to check the roots and move plants when using pots. I am shut down for the summer after this next round. I will make modifications over the summer. It just gets too hot. I run A/C 24 hrs a day in the winter. Mike
 

shanker65

New Member
Thinking on adding some Grandmas Molasses to my reservoirs to give a bit of magnesium to the plants. How much do you recommend starting out with? Reservoirs hold about 25liters/a little over 5gal. Currently plants are in veg. Very very similar recipe to your vegetative recipe. Thanks Cap!
 
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