Living soil feeding schedule

[Virandell]

Hi anybody got some good feeding schelude for living soil ? I will be doing it in 2 gallons pots (I know is no enough at all but I am doing in them for the last time) my recipe is alfalfa kelp fish bone blood fish bone gypsum rock dust gardening lime
I wonder how often I should top dress and make sst, compost tea I also have humic acid and sea weed extract I think I will buy silica aswell as I heard good reviews about it

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi anybody got some good feeding schelude for living soil ? I will be doing it in 2 gallons pots (I know is no enough at all but I am doing in them for the last time) my recipe is alfalfa kelp fish bone blood fish bone gypsum rock dust gardening lime
I wonder how often I should top dress and make sst, compost tea I also have humic acid and sea weed extract I think I will buy silica aswell as I heard good reviews about it

the answer is never. If you have a living soil, everything the plants need is already in there and there is no need to top dress with additives that have no chance of breaking down into the useable components during that grow. All you are doing to do with additives like that is to make your soil pH go insane and probably end up killing off a lot of your microlife.

The true answer is that you use these inputs in a tea, producing microlife in a pitcher that feeds on the exact inputs you are suggesting. You supply the needed food so that the microbes that feed on those components thrive and multiply in your tea and those that feed on other things will not. Stop thinking that you are feeding the plants, or even the soil with this extra stuff. You are not. You are feeding and culturing microlife that when you put them in the soil, they will do exactly the same thing you trained them to do in the tea... they will feed on the fish bone and gypsum and other stuff that is there cooked into the soil. They will feed the plants... that is not your job.
If you want to feed out of a bottle and add humic acid and all that other stuff in an attempt to feed the plants, then any medium would have worked and it makes no difference at all if your soil is living or not. If you continue to add uncooked things into that soil, you will burn your plants and you will stop the feeding cycle. Trust the method of choice... don't combine ideas. A true living soil only needs water. Nothing else. If that is working well and your plants are thriving, only then think about adding fertilizers.... but never ever add raw inputs as a top dressing unless you see no other alternative to save a grow that is about to fail, and even then there are better ways. As far as your compost teas go, I would plan on one at least every 10 days, just to replenish the microlife that may have passed away since last time, always nutrient specific as to the stage the plants are in.

 

[Virandell]

the answer is never. If you have a living soil, everything the plants need is already in there and there is no need to top dress with additives that have no chance of breaking down into the useable components during that grow. All you are doing to do with additives like that is to make your soil pH go insane and probably end up killing off a lot of your microlife.

The true answer is that you use these inputs in a tea, producing microlife in a pitcher that feeds on the exact inputs you are suggesting. You supply the needed food so that the microbes that feed on those components thrive and multiply in your tea and those that feed on other things will not. Stop thinking that you are feeding the plants, or even the soil with this extra stuff. You are not. You are feeding and culturing microlife that when you put them in the soil, they will do exactly the same thing you trained them to do in the tea... they will feed on the fish bone and gypsum and other stuff that is there cooked into the soil. They will feed the plants... that is not your job.
If you want to feed out of a bottle and add humic acid and all that other stuff in an attempt to feed the plants, then any medium would have worked and it makes no difference at all if your soil is living or not. If you continue to add uncooked things into that soil, you will burn your plants and you will stop the feeding cycle. Trust the method of choice... don't combine ideas. A true living soil only needs water. Nothing else. If that is working well and your plants are thriving, only then think about adding fertilizers.... but never ever add raw inputs as a top dressing unless you see no other alternative to save a grow that is about to fail, and even then there are better ways. As far as your compost teas go, I would plan on one at least every 10 days, just to replenish the microlife that may have passed away since last time, always nutrient specific as to the stage the plants are in.

Righty so that sea weed extract and raw humic acid I should add only to compost teas yes ? (I been thinking to add a tea spoon of humic acid to my soil(subcool recipe have that I am sure) and silica as I don't have rice hulls and supposed to be good?

 

[Emilya Green]

Righty so that sea weed extract and raw humic acid I should add only to compost teas yes ? (I been thinking to add a tea spoon of humic acid to my soil(subcool recipe have that I am sure) and silica as I don't have rice hulls and supposed to be good?

the humic acid would have been good back when you were cooking the soil... now, you are just going to kill microbes with it. Even in the compost teas you have to be careful not to overload the tea with one component or another or breed one species of microlife that eats the others, or out competes it for the available food. Compost teas are not a guessing game where you just throw in this or that because it sounds good. Each input has a specific purpose and a best time to introduce it into the teas so as to produce the desirable microlife in the quantities that will do some good. Most of the stuff you have mentioned is good, but only in the right proportions and in the right order. There is a reason that we have known published recipes for our teas, and these have been worked out very carefully by watching in a microscope to see what happens as a result. The same things that SubCool used in cooking his supersoil are not necessarily the same things you would want to put in a compost tea. If you decide that you wish to throw in an extra nutrient, such as my dandelion extract or my banana juice, I would typically apply this to the tea after brewing and immediately before applying it to the soil... just so I can be assured that my desired microlife has remained intact.
Again, the small amounts of these inputs in the teas are not to feed the plants, they are to culture out and feed the desired microlife while keeping in check the bad microlife. This is also why we don't just steep a tea in a bucket or an old hollowed out log, and why we use active aeration while making our teas... we are keeping at bay the bad bacteria and causing the good ones to thrive. Have you checked out some of the recipes that I gave in my last few grow journals? I recommend them because they actually worked... and you have proof right there in my journal as to their effectiveness. Start mixing in things on your own, and you will be in uncharted territory, and I really won't have much I can do to advise you on if you get in trouble after finding out that your teas either didn't help or actually harmed your plants.

 

[Virandell]

the humic acid would have been good back when you were cooking the soil... now, you are just going to kill microbes with it. Even in the compost teas you have to be careful not to overload the tea with one component or another or breed one species of microlife that eats the others, or out competes it for the available food. Compost teas are not a guessing game where you just throw in this or that because it sounds good. Each input has a specific purpose and a best time to introduce it into the teas so as to produce the desirable microlife in the quantities that will do some good. Most of the stuff you have mentioned is good, but only in the right proportions and in the right order. There is a reason that we have known published recipes for our teas, and these have been worked out very carefully by watching in a microscope to see what happens as a result. The same things that SubCool used in cooking his supersoil are not necessarily the same things you would want to put in a compost tea. If you decide that you wish to throw in an extra nutrient, such as my dandelion extract or my banana juice, I would typically apply this to the tea after brewing and immediately before applying it to the soil... just so I can be assured that my desired microlife has remained intact.
Again, the small amounts of these inputs in the teas are not to feed the plants, they are to culture out and feed the desired microlife while keeping in check the bad microlife. This is also why we don't just steep a tea in a bucket or an old hollowed out log, and why we use active aeration while making our teas... we are keeping at bay the bad bacteria and causing the good ones to thrive. Have you checked out some of the recipes that I gave in my last few grow journals? I recommend them because they actually worked... and you have proof right there in my journal as to their effectiveness. Start mixing in things on your own, and you will be in uncharted territory, and I really won't have much I can do to advise you on if you get in trouble after finding out that your teas either didn't help or actually harmed your plants.

Righty I understand what u mean yes I seen your grow journal and I have to say they been looking very vigorous ^^the humic acid i mostly bought for fungal compost tea as I seen people adding it in the recipes I still got around 3 4 weeks before I will plant somthing (u think I should add humic acid or leave it ?) Also the seaweed extract ( I would make compost tea and add it now while is cooking) what u think ?

 

[Emilya Green]

yes, since you are still in the process of cooking your soil and don't yet have plants growing in it, then it is a lot safer to add components such as rice hulls, oatmeal etc... but if you are doing this in addition to what you already used in originally making the supersoil, then how is getting away from the original recipe that is now cooking by adding even more stuff going to be beneficial? Humic acid was a component of my original supersoil, and once i had it mixed up to cook for 3 months I never would have thought to just add more of this or that, just because I was bored. Trust the original recipe to work... it doesn't need you constantly messing with it. Even the compost tea at this point is not recommended, although I did this in my early organic experience too, not knowing any better. The compost tea is a culture of nutrient specific microbes, not necessarily the same ones at work in that composting soil. Adding them probably won't hurt anything perse, but the problems occur when adding this muck of a tea to that soil and then letting it set to sink to the bottom of your container. Since there is no plant in there using this liquid, it remains in there and eventually goes stagnant, or anaerobic. When it starts to smell bad down there in that muck, you can also be assured that there are bad things in that soil. Save the compost tea for either soil that you are turning over regularly so it can aerate and not go stagnant, or to an active grow where the microbes will have a job to do and where the water will not be allowed to sit.

 

[Virandell]

yes, since you are still in the process of cooking your soil and don't yet have plants growing in it, then it is a lot safer to add components such as rice hulls, oatmeal etc... but if you are doing this in addition to what you already used in originally making the supersoil, then how is getting away from the original recipe that is now cooking by adding even more stuff going to be beneficial? Humic acid was a component of my original supersoil, and once i had it mixed up to cook for 3 months I never would have thought to just add more of this or that, just because I was bored. Trust the original recipe to work... it doesn't need you constantly messing with it. Even the compost tea at this point is not recommended, although I did this in my early organic experience too, not knowing any better. The compost tea is a culture of nutrient specific microbes, not necessarily the same ones at work in that composting soil. Adding them probably won't hurt anything perse, but the problems occur when adding this muck of a tea to that soil and then letting it set to sink to the bottom of your container. Since there is no plant in there using this liquid, it remains in there and eventually goes stagnant, or anaerobic. When it starts to smell bad down there in that muck, you can also be assured that there are bad things in that soil. Save the compost tea for either soil that you are turning over regularly so it can aerate and not go stagnant, or to an active grow where the microbes will have a job to do and where the water will not be allowed to sit.

Righty ok so I will return that humic acid as it's been quite expensive and I will leave the soil as it is and the rest feeding I will do like in your grow journal
Thanks alot for your help

 

[Emilya Green]

Righty ok so I will return that humic acid as it's been quite expensive and I will leave the soil as it is and the rest feeding I will do like in your grow journal
Thanks alot for your help

I agree on the expensive humic acid. A lot of folks in synthetic grows swear by the stuff and I have no doubt that it can be effective... just not in a living organic grow. I am going to drum it home one more time... I don't feed my plants... the soil and the microbes do that for me. I make sure that I produce active microlife, hence the term living organic soil, and keep that soil alive by adding to the microbe population regularly. If I ever add anything else, with the exception of calmag, it is to supplement the grow, not feed it. Calcium is used in such huge amounts in our plants that it is hard to put enough calcium in the soil to last through the entire grow, but it can be done. Too much Ca preloaded in the soil can lock out Phosphorus, Boron, Manganese, Magnesium and Zinc. Preloading Magnesium is another matter. If we preload enough magnesium to get through the grow we can easily lockout the ability to process potassium and even calcium and this is why we supplement only small amounts of magnesium throughout the grow as an additive. Building a good balanced soil has to be done with as much care as in choosing the components for our teas.
Consider that you are now a farmer that wears two hats. You produce a soil that can grow a blooming weed with your good farming techniques. You are also a rancher, a farmer of microbes. The plants are out of your hands... you just watch that process happen and let everything else take care of the feeding for you as you stay strictly within your lane.

 

[bobrown14]

For the humic acid - read label for use. It's going to be a very small amount.

a teaspoon will likely kill your plants in a 2 gal container.

I would go to something like Ful-power, which is Fulvic Acid. They go hand in hand.

I only use humic acid (and very very small amounts) at up pot - mix it in with a cup of ewc and fill in around the plant I'm up-potting. Its minor really and can go without it. There's more better stuff like kelp meal/kelp tea.

If you are using a liquid kelp product - try foiler/spraying it on the plants. Thats how I use the liquid form.

Kelp Meal I add to the soil with EWC at a 2:1 ratio ewc:kelp meal.

Everything Emilya wrote I agree with.

Best to use more soil. 2 gal is gonna be hard to grow a proper size root ball in and you will be struggling with plant health in organic soil in that size container.

You could nurse the plant. You will learn a good deal doing it. It will be easier long run to get a bigger container and up-pot.

 

[Virandell]

I agree on the expensive humic acid. A lot of folks in synthetic grows swear by the stuff and I have no doubt that it can be effective... just not in a living organic grow. I am going to drum it home one more time... I don't feed my plants... the soil and the microbes do that for me. I make sure that I produce active microlife, hence the term living organic soil, and keep that soil alive by adding to the microbe population regularly. If I ever add anything else, with the exception of calmag, it is to supplement the grow, not feed it. Calcium is used in such huge amounts in our plants that it is hard to put enough calcium in the soil to last through the entire grow, but it can be done. Too much Ca preloaded in the soil can lock out Phosphorus, Boron, Manganese, Magnesium and Zinc. Preloading Magnesium is another matter. If we preload enough magnesium to get through the grow we can easily lockout the ability to process potassium and even calcium and this is why we supplement only small amounts of magnesium throughout the grow as an additive. Building a good balanced soil has to be done with as much care as in choosing the components for our teas.
Consider that you are now a farmer that wears two hats. You produce a soil that can grow a blooming weed with your good farming techniques. You are also a rancher, a farmer of microbes. The plants are out of your hands... you just watch that process happen and let everything else take care of the feeding for you as you stay strictly within your lane.

For the humic acid - read label for use. It's going to be a very small amount.

a teaspoon will likely kill your plants in a 2 gal container.

I would go to something like Ful-power, which is Fulvic Acid. They go hand in hand.

I only use humic acid (and very very small amounts) at up pot - mix it in with a cup of ewc and fill in around the plant I'm up-potting. Its minor really and can go without it. There's more better stuff like kelp meal/kelp tea.

If you are using a liquid kelp product - try foiler/spraying it on the plants. Thats how I use the liquid form.

Kelp Meal I add to the soil with EWC at a 2:1 ratio ewc:kelp meal.

Everything Emilya wrote I agree with.

Best to use more soil. 2 gal is gonna be hard to grow a proper size root ball in and you will be struggling with plant health in organic soil in that size container.

You could nurse the plant. You will learn a good deal doing it. It will be easier long run to get a bigger container and up-pot.

Righty thanks alot both of yous I will just leave that humic acid like yous saying don't want to mess up anything
@emily I will do calmag from eggshells only and in my compost teas instead of fish hydrolysate can I just use fish meal ?
@bobrown14 what u mean nurse the plant ? ^^

 

[Emilya Green]

fish meal is ok in a pinch... the raw product of course is better.

 

[Virandell]

fish meal is ok in a pinch... the raw product of course is better.

Righty 2 last questions I promise (I know I am bombarding u with them ) when u applying fpe ? With compost tea or on its own ? Also is it really a point to grow in 2gallon pots like me .. ? I decided not to use 1x7gallon pot as I will need like 8 or even 10weeks veg and I just don't got space for bigger tent for bigger pots ..

 

[Emilya Green]

Righty 2 last questions I promise (I know I am bombarding u with them ) when u applying fpe ? With compost tea or on its own ? Also is it really a point to grow in 2gallon pots like me .. ? I decided not to use 1x7gallon pot as I will need like 8 or even 10weeks veg and I just don't got space for bigger tent for bigger pots ..

per the last lines of my signature, I don't believe in using extra nutrients unless the plants are thriving. When I see a healthy plant in mid to late veg, I have been known to give my dandelion FPE by adding 1 tbls/gal to the final diluted tea immediately before applying it. I don't want to hurt the brewing of microbes by adding in a possibly alcoholic FPE concoction that might restrict the microbe multiplication, so it is always added AFTER the brewing is done. It is possible to grow TLO style in 2 gallon containers, but it is not going to be easy. A short running plant should be fine, but even I messed up on my last run by putting a 14 week bloom sativa in a 3 gallon container. After 20 weeks of growth the soil ran out of stuff and suddenly the plant died, right near the end. More soil would have given me a buffer and this would not have happened. A 2 gallon container will be a challenge for the same reason, but you should be fine for 10 weeks. Larger containers are easier for many reasons, this just being one of them.

 

[Virandell]

per the last lines of my signature, I don't believe in using extra nutrients unless the plants are thriving. When I see a healthy plant in mid to late veg, I have been known to give my dandelion FPE by adding 1 tbls/gal to the final diluted tea immediately before applying it. I don't want to hurt the brewing of microbes by adding in a possibly alcoholic FPE concoction that might restrict the microbe multiplication, so it is always added AFTER the brewing is done. It is possible to grow TLO style in 2 gallon containers, but it is not going to be easy. A short running plant should be fine, but even I messed up on my last run by putting a 14 week bloom sativa in a 3 gallon container. After 20 weeks of growth the soil ran out of stuff and suddenly the plant died, right near the end. More soil would have given me a buffer and this would not have happened. A 2 gallon container will be a challenge for the same reason, but you should be fine for 10 weeks. Larger containers are easier for many reasons, this just being one of them.

Right amazing you are diamond thank you very much