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Magnus8's Canna Cream, Body Butter & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Cannabinerd

Member
Well, I wouldn't say that I enjoy it. What I do enjoy is that finally we are getting information based on reality, rather than rumor and conjecture. Don't get me wrong, the citizen scientists are all we've had to rely on, and my appreciation runs deep for them, but I've been waiting 37 years for this plant to be legalized and have actual science to base our decisions on. The amount of information coming out even over the last three years is awesome.

Meanwhile...I still can't find a straight answer on whether THC binds to CB2 receptors or not. :reading420magazine::nomo:
 

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
Hi Sue, I've been doing research on the safety aspects of various essential oils to hopefully add some bonus medical value into our topical recipes and am getting ready to do a series of posts on it. Carrot oil is one that stuck in my head, so I checked again real quick. Some sources claim that carrot oil has the potential to be phototoxic, so you might want to do a little digging before using it in a sunscreen. If that is the case, it would have to be used in small amounts to remain safe.

I was down a scientific document rabbit hole last night and came across some other interesting info about topical use of carrot oil. I'll see if I can find it again.
Hi Cannabinerd,

We haven't met yet, but it's nice to meet you now.

In my Carrot Seed Lotion, I mixed it with 17% Carrot Seed Oil and 3% Shea Butter.

The rest of the ingredients were 3% Emulsifying Wax, 2% BTMS-225 (a vegetable-based emulsifying conditioner), 1% Vitamine E Oil, 1% Optifen Plus (a lotion preservative) and 73% Distilled Water.

In no way did i ever notice any effects of phototoxicity in my body in any way, shape or form. As is often the case with these reports, they must be read closely in that they MIGHT be somewhat phototoxic. But that shouldn't stop anyone from trying a recipe out to see if they react that way to this all-natural oil. And this is in no way being unscientific. It is just taking the scientific advice for what it is: just advice.

If you, yourself, are looking for a good almost all natural sunblock that wont leave your skin all greased up (Carrot Seed Oil sinks into the skin fully and rapidly) then you should try my recipe.

Works brilliantly.

Magnus.

And SweetSue: Thanks so much for the welcoming back!!!
 

Amy Gardner

Member of the Month: Mar 2018 - Photo of the Month: Apr, Dec 2018, Apr, Sept 2019, Feb 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2020 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2021
still can't find a straight answer on whether THC binds to CB2 receptors or not. :reading420magazine::nomo:
AFAIK THC is a ‘partial agonist’ at both the CB1 and CB2 receptors, it binds “imperfectly” but also strongly (meaning its effects are very significant). This is from my course notes from a Green Flower Media course. It references one study that showed THC as ‘allosteric modulator’ at CB1 and a ‘partial agonist’ (can cause an effect) at CB2. I cant find the info on the actual paper right now, but I’ll keep looking. This is what’s observed in laboratories and in rodents ( :confused: ) so there’s a still a lot to be learned, but yes there is some THC interaction at CB2 receptors.
 

Cannabinerd

Member
It references one study that showed THC as ‘allosteric modulator’ at CB1 and a ‘partial agonist’ (can cause an effect) at CB2.

Thanks Amy! Please don't go looking on my account. I tend to believe that information as well. My frustration stems from the fact that about 50% of the sources say that, and 50% say they're isn't any interaction between THC and CB2 receptors.

The topicals I want to make are for family and loved ones. I just want to make them the best, safest, and most effective that I can.
 

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
:thumb:

If you can locate stinging nettle growing anywhere in your area (it a weed so should be somewhere!) it is a complete plant food. You can make a FPJ with it (put a bunch of it in a large bucket, fill bucket wth water, cover loosely, stir daily for a few weeks until ready) which works great but is a very stinky process, but you can also just boil it up on the stove and feed your plants with the tea it makes - you can drink it too, highly nutritious! Then the leftover pulp goes into the compost.

It’s a whole process for sure, embarking on a grow like that, so one needs to be up for the journey. It’s absolutely possible tho.
Glad to see you came through seem pretty tough times and are landing on your feet Magnus! :Namaste:

@Cannabinerd awesome username! :D And you’re still fairly new so, :welcome: to 420 Magazine!
I might be able to do that com5e spring but not now.
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018, 2020 - Grow Journal of the Year: 2020 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan & Aug 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018, Dec 2020 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018, Oct 2021

Amy Gardner

Member of the Month: Mar 2018 - Photo of the Month: Apr, Dec 2018, Apr, Sept 2019, Feb 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Nov 2020 - Nug of the Month: Feb 2021
:thumb: Oh and I meant to say regarding Fibromyalgia (@Cannabinerd ), a sublingual dose of a 1:1 CBD:THC infused oil is a magic bullet. Either vaped, smoked, or sublingual/buccal - ingesting CBD is not so effective for pain. :)
 

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
Well, I wouldn't say that I enjoy it. What I do enjoy is that finally we are getting information based on reality, rather than rumor and conjecture. Don't get me wrong, the citizen scientists are all we've had to rely on, and my appreciation runs deep for them, but I've been waiting 37 years for this plant to be legalized and have actual science to base our decisions on. The amount of information coming out even over the last three years is awesome.

Meanwhile...I still can't find a straight answer on whether THC binds to CB2 receptors or not. :reading420magazine::nomo:
I think that you might have pointed this out in the wrong forum. I, for one, know this thread to be based in science and also in the crafts. The science of carrier oils and how cannabinoids interact with the skin as a membrane. I know when I began developing this thread, I worked hard to give of my "conjecture" learned from years and years as a practicing professional.

I know I dont know you yet, but if you are going to begin cautioning some other member on something I have said, suggesting it to be an unsafe practice, then please get your facts straight about what it is you are denigrating. I was talking about Carrot Seed Oil as I clearly stated in my post, while you were citing the phototoxicity of Carrot Essential Oil.

They are completely different things.

So please, before you decide that I dont know what I'm talking about you need to do your research -- because I DO know what I'm talking about.
 

Cannabinerd

Member
So you're saying to use cold pressed carrot seed oil? My impression is that a lot of the available carrot seed oil is carrot șeed essential oil in a carrier. Probably a good thing to specify, as I've found mention of photosensitivity, phototoxicity, and cytotoxicity from carrot seed essential oil.
 

Cannabinerd

Member
Unless you are making your topicals with something like DMSO that might enable the THC to penetrate beyond the skin, the THC in topicals doesn't enter the bloodstream.

My thought process is concerning activating those CB2 receptors beneath the epidural layer. I'm not even considering the bloodstream with topical use.

I'm wanting to get the most out of a topical as possible. If the THC isn't binding effectively to the CB2 receptors, I would hope that we could find something to activate those inflammation fighting CB2 receptors. Essential oils show some promise for that.

I don't know how far absorption into the body can happen. It's study hall. I'm studying.
 
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Cannabinerd

Member
In the short time I've been looking into essential oils and thinking about using them in the topicals that I want to make, I realized that essential oils, like many things found in nature are not always benign. I want to help myself and others, without doing any inadvertent harm in the process. So I'm going to share a little info I've found in the hopes that it will inform and educate anyone who may not of thought about this before, like I was guilty of.

I'm going to share info from the Tisserand Institute mainly in the form of safety charts that are in the public domain. I've repeatedly seen the Tisserand Institute refered to when it comes to safety, so I'm assuming they are a good resource. They also have a book called Essential Oil Safety: A Guide for Health Care Professionals (ISBN-10:0443062412) that is extremely highly rated, but unfortunately out of my price range.

The general safety info is coming from the National Association for Holistic Aromatherapy since their info is brief and concise. General Safety Guidelines

Check links for footnotes.

General Safety Precautions

Keep all essential oils out of reach of children and pets.

Do not use or recommend the use of photosensitizing essential oils prior to going into a sun tanning booth or the sun. Recommend that the client stay out of the sun or sun tanning booth for at least twenty-four hours after treatment if photosensitizing essential oils were applied to the skin.

Avoid prolonged use of the same essential oils unless they are being used under the guidance of a qualified health professional.

Avoid the use of essential oils you know nothing about on your clients. Research and get to know the oil prior to using it on others.

Avoid the use of undiluted essential oils on the skin, unless otherwise indicated.

If you suspect your client may be sensitive to specific essential oils or if your client has known allergies or sensitivities, it may be wise to perform a skin patch test.

Know the safety data on each essential oil and place into context of use and knowledge.

Use caution when treating a female client who suspects she is pregnant or has been trying to become pregnant.

Keep essential oils away from the eyes.

Essential oils are highly flammable substances and should be kept away from direct contact with flames, such as candles, fire, matches, cigarettes, and gas cookers.

Make sure your treatment room has good ventilation.

Do not use essential oils internally unless properly trained in the safety issues of doing so.


Topical Specific Safety Dermal Safety

Dermal irritant

A dermal irritant will produce an immediate effect of irritation on the skin. The reaction will be represented on the skin as blotchy or redness, which may be painful to some individuals. The severity of the reaction will depend on the concentration (dilution) applied.

General safety guidelines include: avoid application of known dermal irritant essential oils on any inflammatory or allergic skin condition; avoid undiluted application; avoid application on open or damaged skin; and dilute known dermal irritants with appropriate vegetable oil or other carrier. If you suspect a client has sensitive skin, perform a skin patch test.

Some examples of dermal irritants include bay, cinnamon bark or leaf, clove bud, citronella, cumin, lemongrass, lemon verbena, oregano, tagetes, and thyme ct. thymol. (This is not a complete list, just examples.)

Dermal sensitization

Dermal sensitization is a type of allergic reaction. It occurs on first exposure to a substance, but on this occasion, the noticeable effect on the skin will be slight or absent. However, subsequent exposure to the same material, or to a similar one with which there is cross-sensitization, produces a severe inflammatory reaction brought about by cells of the immune system (T-lymphocytes). The reaction will be represented on the skin as blotchy or redness, which may be painful to some individuals.

The problem with dermal sensitization is that once it occurs with a specific essential oil the individual is most likely going to be sensitive to it for many years and perhaps for the remainder of his/her life. The best way to prevent sensitization is to avoid known dermal sensitizers and avoid applying the same essential oils every day for lengthy periods of time. Sensitization is, to an extent, unpredictable, as some individuals will be sensitive to a potential allergen and some will not.

The following oils are considered to be dermal sensitizers and are not recommended in aromatic massage (And I would guess topical application since the sticking point is usually with essential oils that will be left on the skin, such as in a topical): Cassia, cinnamon bark, Peru balsam, verbena absolute, tea absolute, turpentine oil, backhousia, inula, and oxidized oils from Pinaceae family (e.g., Pinus and Cupressus species) and Rutaceae family (e.g., citrus oils) Again, only examples, not a complete list.

Photosensitization

An essential oil that exhibits this quality will cause burning or skin pigmentation changes, such as tanning, on exposure to sun or similar light (ultraviolet rays). Reactions can range from a mild color change through to deep weeping burns. Do not use or recommend the use of photosensitizing essential oils prior to going into a sun tanning booth or the sun. Recommend that the client stay out of the sun or sun tanning booth for at least twenty-four hours after treatment if photosensitizing essential oils were applied to the skin. Certain drugs, such as tetracycline, increase the photosensitivity of the skin, thus increasing the harmful effects of photosensitizing essential oils under the necessary conditions.

Some examples of common oils considered to be photosensitizers are: angelica root, bergamot, cumin, distilled or expressed grapefruit (low risk), expressed lemon, expressed lime, expressed bitter orange, and rue.

There are safe versions that you can find at the link above, but I'm not going to list them here. I think it's better for people to do the research if they are insistent on using one of these oils.

Idiosyncratic irritation or sensitization

Idiosyncratic irritation or sensitization is an uncharacteristic or unusual reaction to a commonly used essential oil. This type of reaction is difficult to predict and rarely occurs but is a possibility.

Mucous membrane irritant

A mucous membrane irritant will produce a heating or drying effect on the mucous membranes of the mouth, eyes, nose, and reproductive organs. It is recommended that mucus membrane irritating essential oils not be used in the bath unless they are adequately diluted in a dispersant such as natural bath gel base, polysorbate or vegetable oil. Bay, clove, cinnamon bark, lemongrass, and thyme ct. thymol essential oils should be avoided in baths completely.

Common mucous membrane irritant oils include but are not limited to, bay, caraway, cinnamon bark or leaf, clove bud or leaf, lemongrass, peppermint, and thyme ct. thymol.

So with this information I feel that I have to be careful with the others that I'm trying to help. I've already been in contact with my people to have conversations about allergies, and previous reactions to essential oil, possible interactions with prescription medications, and speaking with their medical professionals about the blend that we come up with for their particular malady to ensure there are no contraindications with medications as there are some essential oils/carrier oils that can effect prescribed medications. We also are going to be doing a couple skin patch tests, just to avoid any unpleasantries.

I hope some of this will be interesting or beneficial to a few. Next I'm planning on posting on dosage, as this is our safety net when it comes to topicals and essential oils.

Cheers.
 

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
So you're saying to use cold pressed carrot seed oil? My impression is that a lot of the available carrot seed oil is carrot șeed essential oil in a carrier. Probably a good thing to specify, as I've found mention of photosensitivity, phototoxicity, and cytotoxicity from carrot seed essential oil.
I think, then, that your impression is completely wrong.

Carrot Seed Oil (the carrier oil) is a completely different substance than Carrot Oil (the essential oil). If your resources are suggesting they are the same thing, or that Carrot Seed Oil is simply Carrot Oil diluted in some other carrier oil, then your sources are lying to you. And you in turn, are trying to confuse people on this thread with your erroneous ideas about the chemical makeup of this wonderful carrier oil.

Please stop doing this.

Magnus.
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018, 2020 - Grow Journal of the Year: 2020 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan & Aug 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018, Dec 2020 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018, Oct 2021
In the short time I've been looking into essential oils and thinking about using them in the topicals that I want to make, I realized that essential oils, like many things found in nature are not always benign.
In this thread, essential oils are used in tiny quantities and are mostly added to mask the scent of the cannabis, though some are added for their aromatherapeutic value.

When we make topical oils, we are infusing our cannabis in a completely different substance from essential oils as Magnus stated. And I'm sure there are any number of essential oils that can have negative effects on the skin.

No one should read this thread and be under the impression that we are infusing in essential oils, or that cold-pressed carrot seed oil is harmful to the skin.

Anyone reading this thread who wants to add essential oils to their mix should research those oils for their skin-safety, as many are sold for aromatherapy use only.
 

medmanmike

Well-Known Member
I'm stuck trying to determine the amount of THC & CBD there is in an infused oil I'm making. I have Old Bear's SS which I understand when using flower, but I'm not sure how to factor in using a CCO as the base. I'm hoping someone can help me.

Here's the background. I made a concentrated cannabis oil with ISO. I had it tested for THC (30.176%) and CBD (0.972%). Unfortunately, it came back with ISO at 17,788.200 PPM! To clean it up, I added Everclear 151% at a ratio of 10:1, mixed it thoroughly and let it air-dry/evaporated until it was completely dry. I could not detect any ISO. I warmed it up enough so I was able to draw it into a syringe and ended up with 15ml of CCO. I added 2oz of warm EVOO and 1 tsp of Liquid Sunflower Lecithin and thorough mixed it.

I guess my question is, where we would normally factor in the amount of flower in grams, how do I factor in the 15ml of liquid (CCO)?

Should I just divide by the amount of EVOO in ml (60) for the mg/ml ratio? Or do I need to add the quantity of CCO (15ml) - for a total of 75 ml of liquid - to the equation?

If I use the volume of the CCO in calculating the amount of THC, I end up with 68+ mg/ml of THC. Not sure this is right.

Thanks.
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018, 2020 - Grow Journal of the Year: 2020 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan & Aug 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018, Dec 2020 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018, Oct 2021
Hmmm...I did this once before for someone and can't remember how :oops: . Let me do a bit of digging and get back to you if no one else gets here first!
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018, 2020 - Grow Journal of the Year: 2020 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan & Aug 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018, Dec 2020 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018, Oct 2021
Here is what I came up with last time:

The plant material cell should be the ml of oil, as we use 1ml=1gr in calculations, so you would use 15g in there. For THC % you have to estimate the return from your washes. The person I did this for said he had heard 75% so that's what I used.

Then you add your oil and lecithin to the Oil Volume cell, and 100% for efficiency.

Should be pretty powerful stuff with that small amount of oil!
 

medmanmike

Well-Known Member
Here is what I came up with last time:

The plant material cell should be the ml of oil, as we use 1ml=1gr in calculations, so you would use 15g in there. For THC % you have to estimate the return from your washes. The person I did this for said he had heard 75% so that's what I used.

Then you add your oil and lecithin to the Oil Volume cell, and 100% for efficiency.

Should be pretty powerful stuff with that small amount of oil!
I’m not clear what you mean by "return from your washes". Do you mean the Everclear wash to remove the iso? I’m taking the position that all of the alcohol evaporated leaving the % of THC as tested (or pretty close).

The tested result of the cco was 30.176% THC. Decarb had already taken place. "Cooking down" had already taken place. All I did was the Everclear wash and addd 60ml/2oz of EVOO and the LSL. There was no further conversion at this point. In my mind I’m at 100% which would be 75.42mg/ml of THC.

Perhaps I’m not understanding something. If so I’m all ears!

Any way you look at it it’s pretty powerful stuff!

Thanks.

Thanks :thumb:
 

InTheShed

Member of the Year: 2018, 2020 - Grow Journal of the Year: 2020 - Member of the Month: Jan 2018, Nov 2018, Jan & Aug 2020 - Grow Journal of the Month: Aug 2018, Dec 2020 - Plant of the Month: Oct 2018, Oct 2021
I meant return from your QWISO wash. You start with buds that are a certain % THC, then you wash the trichomes from the buds, but you also get some amount of plant matter and chlorophyll. So the oil you are left with is not 100% THC. In the case of your oil, it was 30% THC, which seems low to me.

I didn't factor in the Everclear wash because that was just an attempt to bind it to the iso and cook it all away, leaving you with the same THC percentage (I hope!).

So with 15ml/g of oil at 30% THC, 65ml of EVOO/LSL, and an efficiency of 100%, I get 69.23mg/ml. Pretty close to what you ended up with.
 

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I have a very interesting project going on with DrDoob that I thought you all might like to hear about.

I am devising a Canna Lotion Kit for him.

Once he receives his kit, all he will have to do is infuse the oils I provide with his own weed and then add some other stuff from a packet I will provide and whip it up with a stick blender. Out will come this nice, fluffy white (or possibly light green) lotion that you can apply like any other lotion to your pain spots. Non-greasy (now really, do you think it would actually be greasy with me designing it :) ), easily absorbed and conditions your skin by moisturizing it at the same time.

I dont know how much the kits will retail for yet because I havent priced out my ingredients yet.

So just something I thought I'd let you all know about.

Magnus
 

Dan Moore

Well-Known Member
I'm not good at math. Just ask anyone. Right, Shed? :laugh2:

But, here's my recipe and you can do with it what you can to make your measurements fit, okay?


Canna-Cream – April 8, 2018

Ingredients (Weigh all ingredients):

  • 28 grams of beeswax to a max of 34.8g
  • 22 grams of shea butter (max) or 14 grams of cocoa butter (max)
  • 10 grams of decarbed Hash Plant
  • 274 grams of sweet almond oil, which includes 174 grams infused with cannabis
  • and, still to be added – tea tree oil, peppermint oil* and maybe lavender oil
*peppermint oil and cocoa butter go well together

Instructions:

  • Decarb cannabis in the oven at 230F for 110 minutes.
  • Add 174g of the sweet almond oil to mini crockpot and decarbed cannabis. Stir off and on over 3 hours.
  • When the infusion is done, strain the plant material and then add 100 grams of uninfused sweet almond oil, the beeswax and shea butter.
  • Once it has melted, move to the fridge or freezer to see how well it sets.
  • If it’s too runny, re-melt it and add more beeswax (but be careful and only add 1 gram at a time as too much beeswax can hinder absorption); adding more butter is another possibility but with it you have to be careful it doesn’t get too greasy.
  • Honestly, it gets easier the more often you make it.
This is
50ml of my infused oil
2.5g Beeswax
2g Shea Butter
1g Cocoa Butter
10 drops peppermint oil

It might be a little soft, but I'll stick with it and decide if I need to harden it with the next batch.
 
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