Major pH Spikes! Please Help

[texasdjj]

1st time grow; have a large container with 95 liters of water, two 5 gallon buckets with a plant each in them and I have a "CocoPod" grow system with 8 small pots. Both systems have "fish bubblers" and fountain sprayers on timers. the plants appear to be very healthy. Here is the problem. I set up the PH initially at 5.3; EC at 1200. Later that same day the PH will be up at 7.5-8+

I used PH Down for a while but that got crazy expensive - switched to distilled white vinegar and that worked, but again, the darn PH would sky rocket up to 8 again the very next day.

Can someone please give me some advice?

thanks,

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm not sure why your ph is rising so fast but I would get a different ph down. Most ph down is phosphoric acid. Used for etching glass, cleaning and many other things I'm sure. Sometimes nitric acid is used as ph-down. If you can't find those then sulfuric acid should be very easy to get from an aito supply. All three should be very cheap. And even the stuff from the hydro shop shouldn't break the bank and should last a long time. Even though it's marked way up

 

[bignugz420]

I would also think about RO water, or let your water sit out for 48 hours no lid on it

my new dwc Afghan Kush run and flowering mothers

 

[The Germinator]

[Disclaimer]
"I don't know everything. My opinion is just that. It's up to you to research the information offered by me or anyone else. It's not wise to act on the first opinion you get. "

My First DWC Grow - Unknown Strain

 

[texasdjj]

Hello Weaselcracker - really appreciate your info. I'm a native Texan living in Indonesia and the Hydroponic garden store is very limited, only has very small bottles of PH up/down and they sell for $10 each. I have never needed the PH/UP, but found my self going through 3 bottles a week of the PH/down. I have two reservoirs: (1) is for (6) small plants - I use this "CocoPod / Integrated reservoir & LED" system from seedling to about 2.5 feet tall. This reservoir hold (3) liters of water; In the beginning I started off with "boiled water", then added the A/B nutrient sauce that is available here, then I adjusted the PH with solution to get water to 3.3 (note: water PH here starts at around 7.2)

When I ran out of PH/Down; I found several posts here @ 420mag where people have substituted distilled white vinegar for PH/Down. For me the price is the same, but the grocery store is 2 hours closer...

Both the PH/Down & DWV work initially - but then later that same day or next morning I have to go through the PH/Down process again.
I flushed the "medium" 3x in our garden tub before using & and the water was adjusted in the DWC reservoirs to 5.0-5.3

?? Do you think the "fish bubblers" are creating too much oxygen in the systems and that is causing the PH to rise 3points every day?

thanks again for your kind advice,
TexasDjj

 

[texasdjj]

 

[texasdjj]

Just a quick note: My LED lamp CRASHED on top of my Mother plant - so the "droopy" 3day old clones are what you see in the CocoPod currently.

 

[texasdjj]

Mr. BigNugz420 - not sure what "RO" water is. I started with boiled water, that put the PH around 7; I adjusted down to 5-5.3; but every day I have to bring it back down from 8 or higher.
I appreciate your feedback

 

[bignugz420]

It's any light leaking into res throughout your lights on? What's your res temp and what's you ppm currently. A high ppm stabilize the water so less pH down but you can't go past 3/4 recommend strength currently in late flower I am at 1050 ppm or so. Also try to get hydroguard or z7

my new dwc Afghan Kush run and flowering mothers

 

[texasdjj]

very nice table to share - many thanks!

 

[texasdjj]

Yes, at times light DOES ENTER, when I am checking the PH, I have to remove one of the "cups" or the "baskets" in order to get the probes into the reservoir. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any PH stabilizers here locally.

 

[texasdjj]

What about LEMON JUICE or Distilled White Vinegar? PH down - from the store is not feasible anymore, (two hour drive & $10 per small bottle)

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm sorry- the easiest/short answer is- I don't know. I could blather about a lot of theories and thoughts I have on the subject but it would be pushing the limits of what I actually 'know'. I don't think bubblers will raise your ph- though I've heard a couple people say they think they do. My experience was that the bubblers helped stabilize the ph in my res but it could have been other factors.
I'm not really a hydro grower. I mainly grow in soilless (peat moss/perlite). I do have a small drain to waste setup with an external res. but I don't know anything about DWC.
I used to use vinegar. It seemed to work ok. But I wasn't growing with any form of hydro at the time and may have been deluded. I've heard so many people say that vinegar is a bad thing to use in hydro, I've started to believe it.
I'll find you a link to a good article about sulphuric acid. This should be easily and cheaply available to you and will work well. Of course you want new acid not something from a battery- I hardly need to say that but I'll say it anyway.
Will return and edit that sulphuric link in when I find it.


Alright here is that article I mentioned- this is a quote of mine in another thread from a while back. . Originally put together by Carthoris. Took me forever to find it again.

Since I'm here... we might as well try and clear up the H2SO4 issue to get it over with. Scuze the long post.

DIY Sulphuric acid ph down-

HOW TO MAKE IT:

Buy sulfuric acid at the auto parts store for 7 dollars. Just ask them for battery acid. Get the 33% kind (that means its already partially diluted)

Get a gallon of distilled water, pour out 2 cups.

Put 1 cup of battery acid in your gallon jug of water. Wait a minute or two. Put top back on. Lightly agitate to mix.

Thats it, you have just made a gallon of PH down for a maybe a dollar or so.

SAFETY:

Never pour water into an acid. Always pour acid into water. Wear gloves. Wear safety glasses. If you get it on you, wash it off. Don't drink it.

BENEFITS:

Availability: You can buy sulfuric acid anywhere in the world no questions asked.

Cost: Sulfuric acid is many times cheaper than ph down from the store.

Stealth: Sulfuric acid is used in batteries, and people will assume you are using
it for batteries. If you buy hydroponic ph down they assume you are
growing something hydroponically.

Ease of use
for large
growers: If you have a large res you can use battery acid straight into the
remote res, you wont have to dump cups of ph down into it any
longer, as a small amount of sulfuric acid undiluted(33% is undiluted)
does the same thing.

MYTHS AND FACTS:

Sulfuric acid has Lead in it - FALSE: There is no lead in battery acid, there is lead in batteries. No one is saying to drain batteries and use the acid from it.

Sulfuric acid is Very Dangerous and you will die a horrible death and your hand will melt off and your penis will shrivel - FALSE(mostly): We aren't dealing with pure sulfuric acid, if it was 100% sulfuric acid it would be bad, but you aren't going to find 100% acid anywhere. Haven't any of you ever had battery acid on you? Ive had car batteries explode on me, and I get my homemade battery acid ph down on my skin all the time. Its not like its going to eat you alive, it just itches. If you get it in your eyes, it will be bad, so wear eye protection. Sulfuric acid you will buy at the auto parts store is most likely 33%, which means its already diluted, so you end up with a 3.3%. Household bleach in your eyes sucks too. Are you afraid of bleach? When I get it on my hands when concentrated(33%), I just wash my hands. Unconcentrated, I just rinse it off with water. Ask any mechanic, you wont see them wearing safety glasses while changing batteries or filling them with acid unless their boss makes them simply because it isn't that big of a deal. You don't dress up in a space suit to pour chlorine or shock into your swimming pool do you? You will die, but probably from cheeseburgers and sodas (sodas contain phosphoric acid lol)

Phosphoric is much safer than Sulfuric - FALSE In diluted form the difference is minor. Either one will make your skin itchy. They use Phosphoric acid in tile cleaners, rust removers, and things of that nature. Phosphoric acid is made from Sulfuric acid. They put rocks high in phosphate into sulfuric acid to make it.

Fact: Many people use sulfuric acid as a ph down. Not just marijuana growers, also berry growers, people who run orchards. They also use sulfur, which breaks down into sulfuric acid in the ground. This is a naturally occurring acid in the ground. Its not like you are pouring antifreeze into your res.

Fact: Most people who say using sulfuric acid for PH down doesn't work have never used it, don't understand what ph down does, and don't know why they are using it. They only know what someone else told them or they are reacting to the term 'battery acid'

~ thanks Carthoris for the original post of this ~

 

[bignugz420]

Mr. BigNugz420 - not sure what "RO" water is. I started with boiled water, that put the PH around 7; I adjusted down to 5-5.3; but every day I have to bring it back down from 8 or higher.
I appreciate your feedback

Reverse osmosis water is water it is. It takes everything out of water so you start with a 0ppm and you add what you want

my new dwc Afghan Kush run and flowering mothers

 

[texasdjj]

of course "Reverse Osmosis" - heck if I had access to one of those, I would hook it up and drink water from the tap in our house here in Indonesia. Best we can do is boil the water or buy "bottled water".

 

[texasdjj]

Excellent Info Weaselcracker! I really appreciate it! How is your "perlite medium" setup? My plants started as seeds in "cubes", then transferred into slotted baskets filled with perlite "pebbles". For the first several weeks, the "fountain" in my reservoir would spray the baskets several times a day; now the roots have grow very long, down into the reservoir itself. So part of the roots are in the "air section" of the reservoir and 60% of the roots are now submerged below the water line in the reservoir.

Maybe this is a "screwed up" system and I have applied what I have read about "what to do" incorrectly.
thoughts?

I will get the sulphuric acid tomorrow.

Texasdjj

 

[Weaselcracker]

Perlite works great to grow in. Its best quality is that you cannot overwater the stuff, even with young seedlings. Of course it dries quite quickly- so unless you are using it in a hempy system (which uses a small reservoir in each pot) then you need to water every day.
For my DTW system I hooked up a small electric pump on a timer, with watering lines to feed/water the plants. It works well. Dtw is more forgiving than DWC - I think. Less chance of root rot anyway.
The system you're using sounds fine. It's out of my area of 'expertise' but sounds, to my ignorant self, like it would work fine as long as you keep ph in line, and keep light leaks out of your reservoir.

 

[wiley420]

What's ur water temp going into the res? I know water temp effects ph I believe but can't remember if it's up or down just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[Weaselcracker]

I've never checked it. It's just a garbage can full of water in one side of the room. The room itself stays below the low 80°s F. I'm guessing that the res is a bit cooler. I use rainwater for my entire grow system as I have for about ten years. Can you set up rainwater collection?
Here is a link to some info on water ph. I don't know if you'll want to read it- depends how studious you're feeling I guess. It's actually not nearly as simple a subject as you might think. Beginner FAQ: Water Chemistry

 

[texasdjj]

Hello Weaselcracker - appreciate the feedback! Ironically, I have had some resent root rot - about 3inches of the root tips became "sludgy", so I trimmed them. Plant seems ok now.