Making capsules from hash, do I need to heat or mix in oil?

[Lusi]

Hi folks. I'm not sure where to
Ut this post, so I'm trying a few places with hopes someone has the answer.

I've made all my useless buds into dry ice hash and have a little capsule machine and want to make the hash into pills. Last time, I tried dried buds in the capsules, and had to zap the buds with heat. I forget what it's called when heat, alcohol, fat or solvents make the THC or CBDs useable and the concentrate stronger. Do I have to do this with dry ice hash or keif also? Butane hash or ISO hash already has solvents used, but keif, bubble, or dry ice hash doesn't. It would be easiest to just fill the capsules with all hash and nothing added. Could I heat them after filled if need be?

If I find the right terms for this, I'll change the words. I desperately need to get these pills done today!! My hip is out and I can't walk. Everything I've tried has been of no use.

The only other idea I have is making a glycerine tincture, but I don't know how or have any glycerine. Perhaps next time!

Ty for the help...

 

[Lusi]

He'll, I thought there was a reply.. WTH? Guess this will be another experiment of mine. I can make two caps each of 1) plain hash. 2) hash preheated at 200F then put in capsules . 3)capsule full of hash heated at 200. 4) cap with coconut oil and hash (hard to keep handy when needs frigerated)

It would be a lot easier if someone could narrow the options down. This is a lot of work and time, but hash in volcano is not giving pain relief, not strong enough. It works great for sleep or anxiety, not pain. (sigh)

 

[THsea]

I would suggest cooking it into some solvent like oil if you are going to make pills... Better absorbtion. Some processed hash's can be great just eaten as is...

Dry sieved and bubble hash processes do not decarboxylate the medicine, if I am remembering correctly... Extractions like butane, super critical CO2, etc... Decarb- during the extraction process...

You shouldn't cook it to long. Thats just an opinion however, I have little testing when it comes to cooking with hash.. The few things I did make were with Afgani Black.. Which was one of those you don't reall need to cook. I swallowed a gram once and it was wonderful

Sometimes I fear during decarboxylate, I maybe getting rid of some of the variant terpenoids/ etc... So when I create tincture, I use half decarboxylated bud and the other half is just dried and cured... I've noticed it tastes alot better with part not decarbed also.

Also gotta mention, if it isn't giving you relief.. Then you probably need a new strain. I get that too, sometimes decent bud just.. Doesn't have what I need. I look for serious nausea control, pain reduction, and inflammation control..

Looking forward to making hash tincture... That will be my next great mission Good luck Lusi! I wish I had more information to give you.. I think what you are doing is great though! Let us know how the capsules turn out.

 

[Lusi]

Thanks THSee! It sound like we're working on similar ideas. Me, I want to reduce the breakthrough pain opiods, then tackle the fentanyl patchs. Anxiety, nausea, sleep, and depression are helped with a vaporizer and these strains I have around. The pain, muscle spasms and inflammation needs something more, thus pills, tincture, and cookies. Have you tried the glycerine tincture? This is my next project in line. -

I know people use coconut oil a lot for caps, but I want to keep caps nearby, in apocket or on the nightstand, not the frig. Coconut oil is liquid on the shelf in my climate. I tried make ISO hash into caps once and also once with flax oil. Both dissolved the capsules. :-(. I wonder if I make the hash into caps dry, then add just a drop or two of oil to each , using an eyedropper, then close it up.... Might it be enough oil, perhaps to decarb half? Hmmm

Is decarboxylate the word I'm hunting for, what's needed to convert the THC... Words come to mind like Delta or 9, but darn it my books with the right words are still in boxes, somewhere. I'm so glad you mention the terpenes! I think making BHO eliminated terpenes, since this one strain with a strong taste-(shiva shanti)-was tasteless when done BHO. I was using Vector butane, but was warned that even when rinsed, it's not pure. The pure stuff is manymtimes the price, but if i make BHO from hash, this might be perfect, for this stinky strain. (smells like pine) I have a TON on this, now dry ice hash, but still too strong. From what I understand, the terpenes make the odor or taste? Is this right? I don't know... That taste is there when vaporized and in alcohol tincture, darn it all, this is confusing. You said you non-decarb tincture made the de at ed one taste better? I think I have something backwards here...

-How did you make your Afgani Black hash, the one that worked without heating it up? I haven't seen this strain yet. Is it am good one for chronic pain? Does alcohol or glycerine not decarb like a solvent would? I'd love to know if you have made some 2 separate tinctures, one with decarb buds and one not. If ya don't mind, keep me filled in on any discoveries, especially how these two tinctures effect you. This would be such valuable into to me and save a lot of experiments. :-D

You are very right... I need new strains! I like one called Agent Orange, but can't find seeds or clone to make enough for pain use. Hell, the buds are hard to find too. I just harvested all my Indicas and have a tent filled with a ton of GDP, BubbaKush, White Skunk (good for day), which are my last grow and test of these strains. All these plants were much different indoors in appreance, like grand daddy green outside. Perhaps they will effect me differently this time too. If not, there's plenty to use for cooking and experiments. I have another 6 single bud plants of strains to test. -

Something useful for you... I make dry ice hash with my 1 gal mesh bubble bags. It's so easy and quick, I never got around to using the other bags and trying bubble hash. I can process 4 oz of buds and several strains in just a 1/2 hr with under $2 worth of dry ice. Like bubble hash, no decarb, but it's easy and quick. I don't bother running it all again and just hit the leftovers in the volcano. I like it so much, I made every bud I have into hash. When I find good pain buds, I'll leave em be. Lol

There's my ebook for the day... Time to return to the hunt for the capsule machine. Thanks for the advice. I'll be back when I have some resultsmto post. )

 

[THsea]

Lusi! What a response! That was just great! I really cannot wait to hear about your glycerine tincture, once I get growing it is something I would like to try. So far I only screw around with everclear as a solvent. I like that I can evaporate it to a stronger concentration. Even if taking the medication feels like fire in your mouth for short period.

I will try to find this weird guide for you... It's instructions on the processes used for various styles of hash, pretty sure there was something about how Afgani Black is made... Didn't make that one myself, but used it in some little food dishes.. It still is the best hash I have ever had.. Which isn't a long list. People like buds better here in the islands generally.... Hopefully the file is in one of my memory cards.. If not it maybe on one of two harddrives.. Of which I know at least one of them is on a plane to Japan as of an hour ago... Man, so disorganized!

As for tinctures... I have made ones with and without decarboxylated cannabis. Without, the taste is nice... If you decarb- the cannabis, it makes it a little more "generic" tasting. Certainly not bad by any means. I found over several times of making it that I really like to have both... First I soak the decarb'ed stuff, then when its pretty much done extracting, filter that out and add regular cannabis... Let soak, filter, and finally evaporate off half of the alcohol... Just to note, when I say soak it is usually like two weeks. I don't really do a fast process.. I shake it daily when just relaxing like watching TV or whatever. If I had the money I would get one of those laboratory hot plate stirrers. .. Can't really say which would be better for pain... I think the quality is best with both though.. I don't think decarboxylating effects CBD, which is supposed to help with pain management. Could be wrong though... Sometimes people let it soak longer, or use a faster heated process.. It would be nice if there were cross comparisons of different recipes somewhere on the internets.

Very VERY fascinating to hear that butane extraction effects some terpenoids. I really think that will be the next big thing in evaluating herbs, terpenoid contents!
Actually, we should say the other terpenoids.. Because THC is one itself.

I think they use sesame oil to hold THC in Marinol.. I think they tend to suggest refridgerating most pills that are suspended.. But having some out with you wont destroy it instantly or anything. If you are really worried, a mini cooler ( not like a fridge, the cheap ones for lunches or the beach!) would probably be able to keep them in a good environment no matter where you go.

 

[Lusi]

Hi! I just swallowed the 0 size cap with dry ice hatch. Ug, 500mg pills are way too big to swallow! The oven is about ready for the heated capsule and tad of hash to heat with no cap. (in case heating the capsule destroys it) another one will get a few drops of olive oil and another will get a few drops of coconut oil.

I've tried this before with ground buds, heated to activate in the oven. These did little for me. I tried ground buds in heated flax oil and with caps filled with oil from an evaporated alcohol tincture. These both destroyed the capsule, even when refrigerated. They ended up in the trash as My stomach rebelled and just the smell of them made me gag. The ISO oil was as black as tar, nasty!, but this worked best. Since these experiments, i've stuck with budder, but with a few twists. My cookies each have 1/2 g hash, th same as these capsules... If they work. One cookie knocks me silly for 18 hours. so, if this dry ice cap I just ate works, i'll be knocked flat in another 2 hours. )

Don't quote me on all these methods and terpenes. I haven't found anyone who does!! The answers are in the works as at least I found someone who can find this out. He's convinced me terpenes are almost as important as CBNs. When I find my darn book and a paper I saved on this, I'll pass them on.

Yuck, gotta get some gum, bleh.... mJ must be an acquired taste!

 

[THsea]

Don't quote me on all these methods and terpenes. I haven't found anyone who does!! The answers are in the works as at least I found someone who can find this out. He's convinced me terpenes are almost as important as CBNs. When I find my darn book and a paper I saved on this, I'll pass them on.

Yuck, gotta get some gum, bleh.... mJ must be an acquired taste!

I the taste of good cannabis

Your totally right, the other terpenes beyond CBD, CBN, and THC are really really important! Many have little to do with your high... Example, B-caryophyllene is a de-inflammatory... Then there are ones that do effect your high by effecting the blood-brain-barrier. If you can find the book and paper I would love to look at it!

By the way, I will have to relocate the hash making guides... Apparently that harddrive was wiped.. Idk if we can send files through PM, but we can worry about that when we get there. I really hope these new capsules work for you lusi! As for me...

I just started a little thing of tincture from a few nugs. Kind of more to show my friend the OMM how efficient it is. I remember doing the math for it..

Say you use two grams of great bud... Lets assume its approximately 14% THC (since this is really the only terpenoid that is looked at largely).. We have 280mg of THC then.. Assuming that we can get it all, or very close... In a 25mL solution, that is a concentration of 11.2mg of THC per mL.... Thats a milligram more than the strongest marinol prescription. So if not for recreation, this could be about a week or two's worth of tincture... I don't know about you, but two grams usually wont last me two days smoking.

From what I've read smoking destroys nearly half of the cannabinoids from combustion.

 

[Lusi]

Hi THSee!

.et me how that tincture works for you. It's hard to figure out the math without knowingnhow much THC is lost in use. Your logic sounds good to me! Do you use the frozen or room temp tincture method? How long to you let yours sit? Do you heat the buds or zap them in a vaporizer first? I haven't tried this, but green dragon (name of method) is supposed to be fast, potent, and not have all the chlorophyll and plant matter in it. From what I remember, you can bake your buds as you would do to make capsules, but not so finely ground up. This is another thing on my list to try if glycerine tincture ends up too hard to make. If I have to hold this under my tongue, it better be palatable. Lol

So where in the heck do we find out which CBNs and Terpebes are removed with what method? Surely someone out there has figured this all put.... (sigh) They say edibles takes 4 or more times the amount of bud to get the same effect as vape or smoke. That article failed to point out that the effects also last 4 times longer, even up to 12 hours. As a drink, it lasts long and works a bit faster. A tincture is the most logical to get the best of all methods with potency and speed. LMK what you comemup with! I wish imliked the taste of MJ, or at least like alcohol.

The 1/2 gram in a plain capsule was not every effective. The cookie is the winner so far. I'll try the heated one next. I don't know if I heated this long enough, or the glass up loose hash either. The hash didn't get sticky and compact in the heat. Not sure if it should. Oh well, plenty to experiment with.

That's a shame the hash guides were wiped out. Is there a backup? I managed to get two hash cap threads going, since no one was lurking in the medical section. I,ll try to,keep them both updated.

Holy crap! My cats are on the bed growling and hissing at the ceiling. The new house came with an attic full of huge unkillable rats and they are having a party at the moment. I need some tear gas to toss up there! Oh shit, the light fixture is swaying and the cats ran off. I'm getting outa here before it falls out and let's them in!

 

[Lusi]

I had a sleepless night listening to rats and put all of this in another thread. yawn! blast it, I moved to another room and this one has roof rats somehow making the blade on the fan move slowly and this is knocking in one wall. If I hadn't seen one of these possum sized rats, I'd say my house was haunted! I need earplugs.

Here's an early am brain storming session, with some of my photos of the Shiva Shanty Strain/



So the results so far for this strain in general:
-Shiva Shanti II from Sensi Seeds
-1st outdoor grow 2oz per plant
-1st Indoor grow 4oz per plant (this is the grow I'm testing)
-Current grow, estimating 20oz For one plant! This poor plant started as an accident clone I took when the grow rip broke off a plant while in bloom. I stuck it in a pot and left it to die or live. It lived, then the light cycles got messed up and the plant went into full bloom in May, same time I moved all my potted plants outside to move to a new house. Every plant went into full bloom! In June, they got planted in the ground. I spent 10 days in July cutting off all the blooms and sticky buds once I was sure there was now new growth. Too early to bother with, and even shaved along the stems with a razor to make sure all the buds were thinned. If this wasn't enough to mess a plant or dozen up, the plant grew too tall and wide to stay in the screen house. I cut the back half of the plant off and thinned it out. It still grows taller and taller and is now covered in plastic with poles holding up the screens to keep the evil butterflies out. The dang plant is still growing, while all other Indicas are harvested! wTF?

The tests:

Shiva Shanty II
-Buds: too smelly for me to stand. I'm a newbie at MJ, yet 2 years haven't made this MJ smell or taste good to me. So, other people say the taste is strong and that it acted more Sativa, and looks more Sativa to them. It relaxed them without making them tired, plus gave some energy. Same results as the White Skunk I grew. Lol
-Buds made into budder. My rinsed and filtered method makes a HUGE difference in taste, but not the potency. cookies tasted like the average dispensary cookies, nothing special in taste but very strong. 1 ounce for one box of cookie mix.
-Decarbed ground buds into capsules, 1/2g each. Pretty useless. 3 pills did little
-BHO hash, old method. I used Vector butane and a PVC pipe, 1oz into a crockpot, then with water to boil with coconut oil. Made this into sugar free chocolate. Results, very potent and with no foul taste or odor. anyone could have eaten it! Does BHO remove terpenes or CBNs?
- BHO caps. This sticky stuff was difficult to handle warm or cold, so I barely got a 1/4 gram in one capsule. Worked better than plain ground bud pills. It kept fine at room temp
-ISO tincture from vodka. Worked, 3 droppers full, but stuck to my glass when mixed in juice. Burned my tongue as sub-lingual I don't like alcohol as is, so glycerine will b e next.
-ISO tincture evaporated and in capsule. Dissolved capsules and tasted like battery acid, looked like tar. These were my first experiments
Kief. Took more time and was less pure than dry ice hash. I used a frozen jar of ground bud, panty hose over the top with a rubber band, then shaKe over glass. Taste and smell of buds, good golen yellow, but only vaporized a smell amount. Still piney. Ick

-Dry Ice Hash. By far the easiest and cheapest method out there. Bubble Bag, glass, ice, and a razor were all under $20, in under 15 minutes per oz. As with the buds, the sting pine odor got to me and I didn't vape half gram. Others said it was potent and pure... Minus cat hairs that fit through the screen.lol

So, all my buds of all strains are now dry ice hash. I did 50g dry ice with less than a pound of ice, and two hours, with no second runs. I gave those away to SB with a volcano to vape. Now that dry ice is the way to go, I will try all the concentrate methods using dry ice hash, purifying it more.

Capsules:
I can't find my books yet to see what methods of hash retain the terpenes and all CBN.s if anyone knows, plz tell me! In those books are many capsule methods. Oh well... I compare all of these capsules to the cookies I made, each also containing 1/2g dry Ice hash. I want to know which ways of making caps gives me the same or better.

1/2g of SSII hash into "0" capsules is what I am doing here:

1) 1/2 hash in one capsule, no alterations. Taken Midnight, by 3am I knew it was there, but effected me very little with no pain relief and no help to sleep. It might help anxiety, had none that night, but the effect was relaxing but active.

2a) 1/2g is placed in a capsule and the capsule then placed in the oven, 250deg for 20 minutes. Purpose: to see how heat effects the capsule. It is easier to make them then heat them after. However, the length of heating may not be enough for decaRbing (not tried yet)
2b) A glass vial of hash is cooked in the oven, in the same dish as the capsule in 2a, and 1/2g of it will be placed in a capsule. The purpose: The hash didn't melt or stick together, there was little odor. I think more time will be needed for further experiments. (not tried yet)
Whichever works out and is the more potent, they will be compared to the third method.

3) 1/2g hash in a capsule, with slightly warmed and liquified coconut oil dropped into the cap. Purpose: does just oil make the capsule more potent than choices 1-2? (not done yet)
IF yes, then I will then make a capsule from hash that has been heated at 310F with coconut or Olive Oil, then made into a capsule. It will be difficult since I make only one or two capsules, might need 4 to have enough to heat. This will be the fourth method.

Other Dry Ice Hash tests:
-vaporized. Too strong in taste for me. Was told it was very good quality. My other strains are some of the best hash i've tried.
-Budder. The advantage of making budder from dry ice hash is huge! My hash has fibers and hairs in it, just like the last hash from a dispensary. (impossible to avoid) this can be mostly rinsed out in the first rinse, but just in case, I put my hash in a stocking, like I would bud, and rinsed twice. The resulting bidder had very little plant material in it and wasn't that bright green of bud budder. By using hash, there was more room for butter and less material to reclaim the butter from. I made each cookie have 1/2g hash! 1/2 cookie was a kicker and a whole cookie knocked me out. Nothing knocks me out. Lol the taste was better too and the cookies grew more potent daily, even after freezing some.
This result and amount is what I compare all these capsules to. They will have the same amount of hash.
-next budder will be made from dry ice hash, then run through BHO, then made into budder with a single rinse. This will be the most refined method I can come up with. My hopes are to reduce smell and taste, but increase potency and still contain all the CBNs and terpenes. If only I knew if BHO eliminates these other properties.... Anyone??
:

Since I'm here, here's all my harvest, but 4 plants : -))))) Learning, next year will be even better!

 

[THsea]

Lusi! Boy, do we have a lot in common! Kitties, hash, RATS (however ours we're pets.. one named Lucy)... And you even got the yield I'm shooting for my indoor grow. Your plants are GREAT! There are so many killer growers here its really hard to follow it all.

Okay, I make my tincture much less complicated... I will refine it when I have the resources to spare for an electronic distiller (I think you remember that video! A cheap clean honey oil! )... But until then, this is my whole process for this mini batch right now..

I had an un-weighed quantity of a great Wild Thailand plant.. I guess about 2 grams, maybe 2.5... Anyway, I took the nug that was obviously a little over a gram and grinded it up. Immediately put that in what I had left of everclear.. Then I took the other two smaller nugs and folded them in foil and cooked them in a toaster oven at 200~ degrees for 10-15 min and crumbled that into the alcohol. Since its not a cold extraction (my parents may not appreciate it), or heated... They usually suggest letting it sit for like a month. I usually found its good at two weeks if you stir it frequently. Not open, just moving it in a circular motion by hand.

I've tested small doses, its already fairly potent. Retains some of the euphoric quality that makes this Wild Thai stand out.

However, as of today.. It is no longer "Pure".. But it will get very potent. I got a little hash, that some of has gone in... I would HIGHLY recommend making tincture with kief... When I harvest, want to collect a lot of kief and decarb maybe half... And make a few tinctures.. It absorbs so fast.. Heck, even this hash was gone in maybe two minutes. I should heat it, but there raelly isn't a way right now... But I just thought of something, ill tell you about it if it works.

For now I'm broke! I don't mind my product being green. It takes care of my symptoms and lasts much longer than smoking does for me.. I get my card at the end of the month, once I get growing.. With a little help of a friend, I hope to be buried in buds pretty quickly. It's a pretty funny set up, everyone should get a laugh out of it if nothing else.

Tincture kicks in faster than edibles or pills. Doesn't last as long, but as I showed.. Single doses can be felt and last longer than smoking a half gram.. But its not like smoking a bowl in intensity, if you have the same 14% plant and smoke a half gram, your probably getting at best 35mg of THC... Even the best weed smoked for me in that quantity.. Only intense for maybe half an hour. Then its tapering off and more after effects. If you measure it that way, tincture is way stronger.

Vaping is another story... But I am checking the efficientcy of vaped stuff today also! I have a bunch of stuff a friend vaped..I think its pretty much all wild thai and maybe some frisian dew.. Going to do a quick isopropyl rinse and see if it makes even a little hash. I've got nothing better to do until I get a call for a job interview.

Oh, and I leave some without decarbing to retain the strains terpenoids. Heating it effects some THC types... It probably effects more... It will increase potency, and thats why I do it with half of my ingredients.

I'll put a picture of the tincture after I'm done today making my "proposal" to my parents for the space I need for a tent... 6 foot square, they would have to park ONE foot to the right. Scary, I've never talked to my step-father about pot. He used to be a Catholic Priest in the army... Yikes!

Our first conversation will be about having plants in the house. How ridiculous is that? For all I know he may think satan put it on earth or something! Hes a cool guy though. I think since my mom is cool with it now, he will probably just agree with her.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Good luck and thank you for reporting your various observations/thoughts in this thread. If you are being prescribed fentanyl in combination with another opiate, your breakthrough pain must be extreme. I can see why you require the strongest strains, in the most concentrated form that you can get, both to relieve as much pain as possible and to help you deal with the amount that remains. It can't be helped by the fact that if/when you try to reduce your intake of opiates, your brain (not your mind, I mean the physical "organ") would be... rebelling, for lack of the proper term, and this would probably make the symptoms even worse. I hear/read about cannabis warriors, freedom warriors, et cetera, but you must battle every day simply to get through it. I recall what my father went through for years with a shudder and realize that you must be a strong-willed person indeed. Keep up the fight! Again, best of luck to you and best wishes.

What THsea mentioned about switching strains from time to time is important. Even a lesser strain may have a greater impact than a stronger one if you have been using the stronger one for an extended period of time - at least at first.

I have thought upon the act of vaporizing. Proponents argue - and I agree - that it gives cleaner affects than smoking, that the temperature control inherent in a good vaporizer gives one the ability to vaporize specific components instead of everything. But I do wonder if this is not perhaps somewhat detrimental in certain situations. I believe you have a Volcano? Have you ever tried filling several bags - each at different temperature settings - and then inhaling from each one in series instead of the usual practice of inhaling from one bag until the vapor is exhausted? In truth, I do not know if it would give you any more benefit than a normal round of vaporizing, but it might be worth a try. If it gives a more complex/complete type of effect, it might help you ride out the most severe pain attacks.

green dragon (name of method) is supposed to be fast, potent, and not have all the chlorophyll and plant matter in it.

Actually, chlorophyll is soluble in ethanol. That's almost certainly why the green dragon turns green.

Petroleum ether will dissolve cannabinoids while leaving behind chlorophyll and sugars. Unfortunately, that is definitely something that you would not wish to consume, and I do not know of a quick and easy way to remove PE from the canabinoids afterwards.

I have read that chlorophyll has health benefits, such as reducing colon cancer. But it's just something I read (IDK).

 

[Lusi]

Hi ThSee!
I can't imagine trying to do this in your parent's house. The fireworks are about to start, good luck with them! I am so glad to own my own house now... Well except the in-laws were due to visit in a few weeks. I was planning early harvest and a storage place to hide everything in for a few weeks. Luckily, they got the hint and will wait a few more months. Phew! Everyone else on the planet knows, but them. Lol

So your dad was a chaplain in the army? Wow, that is one stressful job. I wouldn't worry too much. The AD priests and chaplains I've met have had their eyes opened to many other sights and ways of thinking. He's no longer a priest... ? I thought I had it rough convincing my dad to try Simpson's BHO in attempt to keep him from dying a horrible slow death of cancer. It failed, but my militant anti everything dad gave the oil and marinol a try, but refused to take his narcotic pain killers. Hang in there!! Do you keep a medication journal? I drag mine about on the phone. The doctors and people I meet that have issues with MMJ read a but of this and never give me a hard time again. This journal can also help you get your card and might come in handy if there are problems layer on. Ya know the military way, document, document, cover your butt. save everything!

This is my 3rd grow, second outside. Will you be able to ever grow outside? I was at your point last year and decided to try outside first, as it was cheaper and less stressful. Even crappy buds give you material to experiment and learn with. My indoor set up is now a 5x2.5' tent, but outdoors remains my favorite. The tent fan is noisy and ventilation of the heat difficult, even with the lumatek dialed down to 400w. At least soil gave me room for error.

When u get your card, most dispensaries will sell shake or "compassion" buds, less pretty ones for those on a budget. You have to ask... For now, i'd highly suggest investing $6.99 in a gallon mesh bubble bag from wacky willy. The 220 bag is all you need for dry ice hash! run everything you are using through here and still have plenty left to vaporize. The hash can be used to make stronger tinctures, less plant scrapes waited, less chlorophyll in the tincture, plus you could heat it and make the tincture stronger with less waiting for results. I think YouTube has videos for green dragon. For 7 bucks then $2 of dry ice, you can get a lot of experiments done. He'll, I have enough hash and some vodka... I can get this in this week after trimming and water cure experiments are done.

I hope this helps.... It's my strong opinion that truly using MJ for treating various ailments, I person must have patience, dedication, and lots of money or the ability to grow. I figured out it would take several ounces a week of different strains and methods to replace my daily meds, if after I locate the approppriate strains for each problem. They all effect every person differently. Anyway, I don't have enough money for this, so I fo us on growing, concentrates, and eliminating or reducing as many meds as I can. 2 years later, I'm far from getting this right. Imagine if someone pointed out a field full or wildflowers and told you that everything you need to treat your ailments was growing in that field, but you must figure out what, how, etc. Pretty dang overwhelming!

Back to the capsule test... My second capsule knocked me out flat. It hit exactly 2 hours after I took it and flattened me before I could fold up the iPad and turn off the lights. It was the same feeling of when they put the mast on you as anesthesia hits for an operation. It was way too much and I thought i'd never make it through! Ironically, I couldn't move, but couldn't really sleep. I laid there frozen, listening to the owl outside, to know was still OK. Then, I finally slept for 12 hours.

So, heating the hash makes a HUGE difference. 1/2g hash is way to much in pill form. I need to cut that in half. The problem is, I need a dry filler to mix with the heated hash and fill the capsules up. Packing it in there too loosely will make the capsules not ho
D together well. I will experiment here before trying to mix in oil, which is messy, but could further increase the potency.

Next, i'm dumping the capsules with unheated hash back in the jar, then making a 1/4g hash cap with the pre- heated hash I cooked in a glass vial. If this turns out to be a tolerable dose, I'll move on to fillers, then the oil mix tests.

1) 1/2g dry ice hash in a cookie, very strong, a tad too much
2) 1/2g DIHash unheated in capsule, useless
3) 1/2g DIH heated in the capsule, way too strong! Heating weed For caps is essential, no doubt!

Enough of todays book. I have to go set up the water cure experiment. CYa!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Do you have a hash press to compress it into "chunks?" Just curious, I don't suppose it's really necessary for your needs. Might make things easier if you choose to heat it in the oven at some point prior to using it. Heat and pressure make for good hash.

Would flour work as a filler? It's cheap and relatively harmless and generally consistent in grind/weight after going through a sifter.

 

[Lusi]

Hi Tortured Soul, nice to Cya again!
I missed your first reply up there, then wrote an answer this morning only to discover it didn't load. It's worth writing again, I'll get back to that response later. I can stare at the computer many hours and write a bunch of nonsense, ya know all these words it takes for me to say what a few should...

I don't have a hash press and was considering getting a cheap one. The T models look good for arthritis, but don't sound worth the cost. I cheapie and vicegrips is more entertaining. Lol-Do you think it would make hash easier to vaporize?

What is the most effective way to vaporize hash? Is it best pressed or crumbled up in a bud? My vapor genie hash me inhaling debris. The volcano seems to use it up with a liquid pad, but I wonder if I am supposed to remove the bud reservoir in between running the volcano bags. Does that make sense? I can't smoke in order to try a hash pipe, but one of these vaporizers should do the trick. Is there a vaporizers guide to hash?

I realize others like to enjoy their hash and not use it for caps and cookies, but it is so ridiculously simple and cheap to make dry ice hash and still have plant materiel left to smoke, vape, or whatever, there's no reason not to do it! There is very little plant materiel and it's quite pure. I see this as a cheap safe way process all plant parts, which can then be further processed in a tincture, heat, food, even BHO or cleaner ISO...-

When I made that last capsule, I actually put the finished capsule into the oven to see if the gelatin held. The other tad of hash I heated in a tiny glass contact vial, on the same dish. I was quite surprised to see neither the capsule or hash texture changed much. It can easily be compacted, or crumbled up again. I'll play with how much heat next round. Would the hash normally melt at 250F, or stay as is? I can't stress the difference between that hash with no heat and heat. I expected this, but not how HUGE the difference would be. It takes a lot to make me wonder if I'd wake up again.

Flour, or maybe sugar might be good for a capsule filler. If I can keep this hash oil free, it won't need kep in the fridge. I might have some MSM powder about to mix in, or another useful herb or spice. I have the ground bud leftover from the hash. Wouldn't that be a laugh, to put the hash and buds back together.

For tonight, I'm sampling a sorta dried smudge of my Purple Kush Harvest. It smells nice, but tastes like bathroom Cleaner. Darn it, seems to be making stare into space, but not sleep yet. The pain is unchanged. Back to the dry box for that plant! Lysol, tilex? gross!

 

[Lusi]

Hi again TS!
I'm having another bad day, but want to write back before I forget...

Good luck and thank you for reporting your various observations/thoughts in this thread. If you are being prescribed fentanyl in combination with another opiate, your breakthrough pain must be extreme. I can see why you require the strongest strains, in the most concentrated form that you can get, both to relieve as much pain as possible and to help you deal with the amount that remains. It can't be helped by the fact that if/when you try to reduce your intake of opiates, your brain (not your mind, I mean the physical "organ") would be... rebelling, for lack of the proper term, and this would probably make the symptoms even worse. I hear/read about cannabis warriors, freedom warriors, et cetera, but you must battle every day simply to get through it.

You nailed me pretty well there. Equal to finding pain relief is finding a reason to go on another day. The fentanyl has been a godsend for 24/7 pain control. When one of those patches falls off, the result is devastating. I graduated from the max dose of OxyContin then morphine to much stronger meds 7 years ago. The only breakthrough med out there stronger than Dilauded is methadone. I refuse to take it, it is the end of the road. Have others been able to replace these kind of pain killers? I don't even know!

I recall what my father went through for years with a shudder and realize that you must be a strong-willed person indeed. Keep up the fight! Again, best of luck to you and best wishes.

Watching someone you love suffer is often much much worse than going through it yourself, and will make you feel helpless. I am grateful for the nurse who ended his suffering. Pain certainly reminds we are alive, and aware. Which is worse, to be physically well, but lost on a mental fog or PTSD, or have a mangled body, but still have your mind and be unable to use it?

I'm just cranky and stubborn, with a grudge on the military for being so thoughtless and pigheaded when all this was still fixable. Idjits Now, if the one person I keep living for wasn't here, neither would I be. There are millions much worse than me, but that thought just makes me more sad. We're all grasping at straws for hope and reliving what got us here each time we close our eyes. I can't possibly imagine what a soldier with PTSD sees each night. It must surely be unbearable, afraid to fall asleep, with no legal medication to help. I have it easy compared to that. :-(

What THsea mentioned about switching strains from time to time is important. Even a lesser strain may have a greater impact than a stronger one if you have been using the stronger one for an extended period of time - at least at first.

Yes, she is correct! This is difficult to afford on most budgets, until one can grow. The first thing I learned when I tried my first hit, was that each strain only works for three days in a row. After that I must either switch or stop for a day. I switch between the two night time strains I have, but am starting to sample all the new ones in my dry tent. I need 4 at least to just manage sleep and anxiety. Pain and daytime pain with energy are a work in progress. Hell, it's not just strains... One strain purchased from three dispenses is like 3 strains. Strains grown at different times from the same mother plant are just as different. This is frustrating to figure out! Then, each strain effects each person differently... (sigh) do you have a routine to figure all of this out?

I have thought upon the act of vaporizing. Proponents argue - and I agree - that it gives cleaner affects than smoking, that the temperature control inherent in a good vaporizer gives one the ability to vaporize specific components instead of everything.

I am trying to figure this out too. I cant smoke to compare things, but i have a list of what temps certain CBNs are vaporized at. Theoretically, wouldn't it be possible to vaporize all of the THC off at a lower temp, then turn the heat up to get the CBNs?

But I do wonder if this is not perhaps somewhat detrimental in certain situations. I believe you have a Volcano? Have you ever tried filling several bags - each at different temperature settings - and then inhaling from each one in series instead of the usual practice of inhaling from one bag until the vapor is exhausted? In truth, I do not know if it would give you any more benefit than a normal round of vaporizing, but it might be worth a try. If it gives a more complex/complete type of effect, it might help you ride out the most severe pain attacks.

I've had this idea too, but can't figure out how to get several bags going at the same time. Taking them on and off the clip to change out once in a while is difficult enough. If you know a way to do it, let me know! I don't know what other people do. For some reason, I cough away if the first bag is higher than 4.5. Depending on which bag size, and if buds, hash leftovers, or hash, I crank the volcano up 1/2-1 notch each bag until i hit 7.5, cough too much, or have no more vapors. I use very thin vapors and often inhale a little then breathe in fresh air when needed. I figure any visible vapor when I exhale is water vapor. I also will breathe back into the bag. Lol Theoretically, the THC should vaporize between 5 and 6.5 (I don't recall exactly) and all the good CBNs vaporized by 7.5 with bad ones any higher. Also in theory, I should be able to vaporize all the THC out and then turn it up to get only CBNs. Damned if I can tell much yet, I need to get one of my new strains going to fiddle with. Everything I have now is useless for pain in a vaporizer. Have you or anyone done something like this. I'd like to see the results if so! Maybe I'll try this with my day buds. Set the volcano at 5 and vaporize until nothing visible comes out, then turn up to 7.5 and see if those CBDs come out...

I hope to find something similar to the volcano, but with something less noisy than those bags and no lighters in bed. Volcano bags make grocery bags sound like a whisper. :-(

There are so many variables, it could take a lifetime to go through them. Grower/ conditions, strains, method, temps, time of day, ailment, stomach contents.... It's a lot to iron out, but if something works more than a handful of times it would be worth it. I have had one strain from a friend that really worked well, but he only had a bud and dash of the most amazing hash ever, CO2 hash. Agent Orange it was, wish I could get a seed or clone to make realistically affordable. That was amazing! I have some new ones to try in my tent, a few late season small plants. Blueberry Diesel, Purple Kush, Chemo Diesel, Sweet Tooth, Sweet Heart, Afghani shark aka holland shark, Fade to Black, and possibly my last grow of White Skunk, bubba Kush, grad daddy purple, and Shiva Shanti. These are all completely different than the indoor grow of them. My hopes are on the Afghani shark and Blueberry diesel. Shiva Shaniti is the high yielded for hash experiments.

Actually, chlorophyll is soluble in ethanol. That's almost certainly why the green dragon turns green.

Thanks for straightening that one out! I often forget that just because I read it somewhere doesn't mean it was correct. Is there a list or something that has what methods keep what MJ properties, good and bad? Even the basic three, heat, fat, solvents? Since I want to target CBDs, it would help to know how to best get them!

Petroleum ether will dissolve cannabinoids while leaving behind chlorophyll and sugars. Unfortunately, that is definitely something that you would not wish to consume, and I do not know of a quick and easy way to remove PE from the canabinoids afterwards.

Petrol ether, is a Component of Ethanol? I don't know squat about alcohol... I remember reading how not to let plant matter sit in the alcohol too long, that by heating the MJ before the tincture then makes it so you simply let it sit a half hour, then your tincture is done... Vs several weeks. Is this part at least true? My first tincture was back and revolting, but did work, in a drink. Most ended up stuck to the glass though.... I'd like to try both glycerine and alcohol tinctures from this hash.... More curiosity. Do either methods preserve the CBNs?

I have read that chlorophyll has health benefits, such as reducing colon cancer. But it's just something I read (IDK).

I eat enough green veggies for that. Lol have you seen anything on terpenes and how they are or are not extracted?

So, do you have a routine that works for you? How many years have you been working on this before figuring out what helps?

The rats are scratching my light fixture and making the bulb move. How the heck?! I'm outa here!

 

[THsea]

I think I remember some of the flavoring terpenes are actually not soluble in alcohol.. But are in water. What a frustrating plant.

Lusi, you may want to look into some Syrup plants. It has helped my friend OMM more than any bud he has tried ever. He has pain management issue's that are constant also.

I don't know how you all do it, I have had a taste of it... If I over work my arms I'll have issues but I think its very very slowly getting better... Anyway, its seeds anyone can get, its a Autoflower thats breed by Buddha seeds or something... OMM only got maybe a dry quarter off of it, but he doesn't like auto's... I think they needed more love... Some people on here have gotten multiple ounces off of auto's... I think theres someone who actually had a 6 foot Syrup outdoor.

I would probably just keep that as bud and vaporize it.. OMM gets considerable relief with very little Syrup... Hm.. Now I'm worried that hash processes will strip unique strains of their flair!

Oh.. And if you are on the mainland, you might be able to get Harlequin, its supposed to be a high CBD strain... The testing results vary place to place, but on average it usually is like 6%THC and 6%CBD... Thats crazy amounts of CBD.

Who knows. We need more documented information on lots and lots of things.

One last thing.. Lusi.. Your Dry Ice Hash... Thats just bubble hash essientially right? Micron bags in a bucket or something and mixing with ice & water? I had made a few ideas for DIY dry tumblers... I know bubble bags give better yields, and you can use trim... Maybe that would be a good investment. Prolly just use trim for it .. The dry sift hash I've tried has been better than the bubble hash I've tried... Probably just depends on the micron screen more than the method though.

we need to find someone who knows everything.

 

[Lusi]

Hi THSee!

So, you like a strain called Syrup?! The names of these crack me up! I'll have to check that one out. I need to call my fav dispensary and see if they've survived the raids. This is the first ive seen in the bis for the right reasons... He can find clones and buds too I'm not willing to pay $50 for a seed or two, but seeds are nicer to grow from. Funny, $100 for a seed, but $10 for a clone. Nuts! I give all these things away, they cost me nothing and a plant gives a lot of both. :-( I've been thinking of checking out some auto flower strains and see how they'd do outside. A mid summer harvest would be nice, or inside. Were they a bit temperamental, or just unusual? I need a plant that loves heat too. Inside, I need to make space. Ack, too many needs at once. L

I've tried Harlequin from Harborside, but was very very disappointed. It helped me sleep the first 3 tries, but did nothing for muscle pain, average for nerve. It certainly got me stoned which I didn't want. I also bought one of their gashes, the only one with more than 1% CBD. I think perhaps 7%, which for hash isn't much. That wasnt effective either. I'm still trying to get Agent Orange, one that did work well. Have you tried it? Have you tried or gotten anything from Granddaddypurple? I don't get why people like it... I'm trimming my second grow of it now. Looks great, last chance before I toss the mother plant.

I think you might have bubble hash, keif, and bubble hash jumbled. all 3 could be done with 220mcr bags, even keif in theory. I used pantyhose for keif. For the dry ice, you can use bubble bags. I've never heard of anyone using smaller than 190mcron. I use 220, but tried 160 once. The 220 is fine, with almost no plant material going through. People say it depends on the strain. It's so easy, I've never used the bubble bags for bubble hash.
1) dry ice. (no water!) It's 1/4 the price of a bag of ice! Groceries have it
2) 1 gallon or 5 gallon bubble bag, all mesh or mesh bottom. $7-$25
3) optional bucket 1-5 gallon
4) bud shake trim, whatever. I freeze mine first
5) gloves
6) large flat clean surface, glass is best

I skip putting anything in a bucket, but cinch the top of the bag shut. I just do an ounce at a time in the one gallon, but might buy a 5 gal for this harvest. Break up the ice a bit and dump bud with a small piece or few in your bag, or bucket with bag over the top, hold it upside down over your glass and gently shake.

In just a minute you'll have a huge pile of pure clean dry hash! My glass is 18x30" and it catches most of it from a gallon bag, but more space the less waste. A Formica table top is fine too. Most people people run the bag through there 2-3 times, but I just give 1 run ang give the rest away to those who need it more. Scrape up you hash with a card or blade and store. The only contaminate I get through the bag is cat hair and carpet fibers. The trichs break off and very little plant goes through. I do grind the buds first, but when frozen they crumble apart anyway.
As far as I know, nothing is lost in this process. If any of the terpenes or good properties are in the plant and not the trichs, then most hash methods would lose I. I sure shush I knew someone to ask! SO should know that much at least.
My computer is covered in buds waiting a trim. I'll see if I kept the hash pix when done in a few days. If it were possible to upload videos on 420 it would be easier. YouTube is too public.
The results look like some of the sandier bubble hashes. It compresses easily, but is more compact and heavier than Kiev, much more pure. Brown sugar, that's the feel. Color from of white to pink to deep gold. Granddaddy purple is pink. Lol I put it over buds to vape it and use it directly in butter or coconut oil for cooking. What's really odd was that it didn't melt when I put it in the oven. I may not have cooked it long enough? Yep, that 1/4g cap I just took is kicking in. I sure need that sleep and the burning to let up.
LMK if all this makes sense!

 

[THsea]

Syrup is about $10 a seed at our sponsor Single Seeds.

I really like GDP, but it's really dense... And at the prices around here... Yikes! I always end up smoking more than I wanted need to with dense nugs... Thats a shame the Harlequin didn't help! I hope you find some that knock your pain out of the park! Cant wait to make these hash capsules you came up with

I've had sift (kief) and the bubble bag stuff. Both I think vary on the screen/ micron size... When they say it depends on the strain they are kind of right. Some strains have different trichome sizes I've heard. Who knows where I read that though... I think it was saying against Sativa's and Indica's. IDK, doesn't really matter. I'll get some bubble bags when I get a job. Seems like the best thing to do with trim.

Talked to the step-father tonight... Got the green light... All systems go! Tent construction hopefully starts next week.

 

[Lusi]

Your step dad was , OK? Awesome, congrats! Times have changed... I had had free run of beer and cigarettes since I was 3. It worked, I don't alcohol, never had tobacco except for,the wad my dad shoved in my mouth to cure curiosity, and never had any other illegal things. I just can't imagine living at home and about cannabis of any sort. I think being a priest/ chaplain in the mil brings about a broad view and changes the way the see people and their religions, not to mention the rest of how one sees things. It must be great tom have support from your family. He's be a great one to help you get your med recs in order to get your card. These cheap crooked let anyone have one, but it is worth the cash to see a real doc that actually examines and advises.... If you can find one. I made the trip to Berkley to speak to the doc that was part of this whole movement. It was over 5 times the cost and I have 2 recs, but my questions are answered and doubts rested. Next year, I'll bring all these terpene and CBN questions with me.

In bubble hash, micron size makes a huge difference. I was told the colder temp of dry ice makes the trichs freeze solid and break off cleanly, no matter the micron. I have a 43 for bubble bags (unused) but a nice fellow that came by my place that tests MJ at the lab for a job looked at my first dry ice hash and said it was very good quality. Out of curiosity, I'll play with running a bit through my 160 bag. One I've my strains does have visibly smaller and longer trichs. For a $7 bag that includes shipping, it is worth the price to get one of those gallon all mesh bags to try or dry ice, or get 3 sizes so you can try both. Mine lay unused. Lol

I'm really bummed out on my harvest. I had to take early but 2 plants. The rain came a month early, and a woman in the area was robbed of her harvest a day later. PeAce of mind. They all were going cloudy, which is what most people want. Grand daddy purple was still green, but coated in sugar. I've tried this, purple Kush, and blueberry diesel last night, none brought relaxing nor sleep and these plus the 3rd capsule brought me a night of burning misery with muscle spasms and increased anxiety. Even the capsule was too weak, at 1/4g heated hash, was too weak to counter. The quality and taste was my best yet, but no good for me. I have pounds of this stuff. Will make hash and donate it. Will make a new 1/4g cap tonight and heat at 225 for 25 minutes this time.

I didn't know these single seeds places had prices that low. I'll check it out! Do their seeds at least germinate reliably? I will have to kick my drying buds out of the tent and start an indoor grow to get me something usable until next summer. My last 2 plants outside are looking more Sativa than pure Indica, one being the strain I hate the taste of. I can fit 6 plants easily in my tent, or 12 in a SOG short cycle. I love the tent, but have no rat free location to vent it properly yet, oh well. My house is not stealthy. Lol if this Syrup strain is a good sleep bringer and I can get this and Agent Orange from the sponsor, this could work. I'll keep the 5 of my new strains around plus grad daddy purple, then give the rest away. Maybe a quick SOG with all of these will give me enough to try that will be different age properly and grown inside out of the heat. I just want to keep the strains growing until they get a fair try. Bubba Kush, Shiva Shanty, and White Skunk are all more that high others want. grand daddy purple has never helped me, though i've tried it many times. However, it's also never effected me the same, from all the different dispensaries and my own 2 grows. It's worth trying again as it is potent, but a bit cranky to grow outside.

So are you going to grow? Are you needing sleep also? Nerve, muscle, tendon/ lig, or skeletal pain? It must be exciting to be OK at home and ready to give this a real shot. Just trust me on trying that one 220 micron all mesh bag from wacky willy. $7! $2 for the dry ice, that's it! A run of BHO will cost more, ISO take longer and lose more. If ya want the full line of bags, or just mesh bottom, these are top quality, free shipping, and you can get others layer. A one gallon bubble set is way too smalls bubble bags, just to deal with ice water, and stirring. Take your results and make any kind of hash or tincture from it, reuse the leftover bud/trim of vaporizing, smoking, cooking, more hash. I gave the guys working on my place a bag of each harvested strain to try last night (they loved Purple Kush the most), plus a few giant bags of leftover hash buds. These are not damaged by water or solvents and look like ground bud, and smoked great for them in the volcano. I came out and found a big pile of firewood cut for me in return.

I'll scoop those buds off the computer and see if I can find you a photo. Google wacky willy. I think I have another thread with the link still too. Nice video, but I do it differently.

Congrats again!! LMK your tincture experiments too. :-D

Guess I should include the 3rd capsule results:
About 1/4g dry ice hash, just placed loose in a capsule. This hash was heated before making the cap (will blend later) and might have not been heated as well. 2 hours later, empty stomach, it kicked in but gave me no pain relief or sleep. It was much weaker than the 1/2g hash cookie.

Tonight, will make 4 1/4g caps and heat for 25min at 225F this time. If extra heat makes no change, I will add oil next time and so on.

 

[Lusi]

OK, I found a few photos left from my last hash run. They are not great, but you can see how much of this dense brown sugar like hash I got from just mid quality air buds. I forgot the numbers and weight, but the results from this easy method with buds from the same plant are much more and better than making Kief, or BHO. Hope this helps.

The one gallon wacky willy mesh bag with ground buds and dry ice shown inside. I cinch the draw sting up before gently shaking the bag, ice, buds over this glass for a few minutes. This was after only one run. The bud is dry, normal, and still great for running again, vaping, smoking, cooking, whatever. There is no waste!

That's one thick pile of hash! I quit while more was still coming out!

I don't remember the weights. These 7 qt. jars were full of buds. I froze them first and ground them up after frozen. Not sure if that matters...

It's packed in here pretty tight to fit. This may look like kief, but it's much denser. It was over 20g for under 3oz.

I didn't find a pic of my different strains. The color is from off white to a deep gold. Granddaddy Purple is pretty pink. LOL