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Making tincture with a Magical Butter 2 machine: Decarboxylate the flower?

beez0404

Well-Known Member
My wife recently purchased a Magical Butter Machine 2 with which she wants to make oil, butter, and tincture. She is confident that she knows how to make the butter and oil as apparently there is plenty of information out there to read. She has not had the same luck researching the making of the tincture. Maybe you guys and gals can lend a hand?

First........do you decarboxylate the flower or trim prior to putting it into the MB2? I found like 3 videos about tincture with the MB2. In one they did decarboxylate it in the other videos they did not.

Second......Is there any type of chart that shows how many grams of flower to use per ounce of Everclear?

Third.......What is the best method to store it? Refrigerator?

Finally......This is to be used to treat chronic back and knee pain as well as insomnia. To start what would be a conservative dosage

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

Scientific

New Member
I've never used (or thought I needed) an appliance for oil or tincture since all you have to do is mix the oil or alcohol with the herb and then separate them. But that said, I'll take a shot:

1. I would suggest decarboxylating first. Lower temperature for a longer time smells less and drives off less of the volatile components. I use 220 F for 110 minutes and don't cover it with foil or any of that silliness.

2. Good weed is about 20% THC, or 200 milligrams per gram. For a 10 mg dose (the standard legal dose in CO and WA for whatever that's worth) in one ml of Everclear, you would use 1 gram of that 20% cannabis (i.e. 200 milligrams of THC) for each 20 ml of Everclear. That assumes 100% extraction, but whatever's not extracted just gives you a safety margin.

To self titrate, take 1 ml of the tincture and see what happens. If nothing after a couple of hours on an empty stomach, double the dose and keep doubling until something does happen.

3. I store my tinctures in the freezer because 95% EtOH is extremely volatile (though all that evaporation does is make the tincture more concentrated, but that could give you an unwelcome surprise... ;)). It is also extremely runny and will go right by some seals that would keep in water, so watch out for that. (The dropper bottles I got from Amazon leak past the seals like crazy.)

4. From what I have read, you would want a high CBD strain for pain (though it never helped my arthritis pain any). For insomnia and THC, use the regimen above until you find a level that works for you. 10 mg is enough to give most light users a slight buzz.

Some additional, unsolicited thoughts and advice: Recent research has shown that regular cannabis users tend to have more problems with insomnia.
Insomnia Severity Index scores in daily users were higher than non-daily and non-user controls. Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index and Insomnia Severity Index scores were significantly lower for non-daily users and controls relative to the daily users... Daily marijuana users endorsed more sleep disturbance than non-daily users.
Any psychoactive substance can affect normal sleep patterns, so I'd suggest really working on your sleep hygiene (cool, dark room, regular sleep hours, etc.) and talking to a sleep specialist before self medicating.
All that said, a little taste seems to help me drift off... ;) (BTW, the new book "Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams" by Harvard sleep researcher Matthew Walker has a lot of good info about the extreme importance of lots of good-quality sleep.)

And this article about pot and sleep is good.

You might find these posts about preparation in a grow log of mine interesting: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 2017

I wish you good luck and deep and pain-free sleep. :)
 

Lazarus13

Well-Known Member
I've never used a machine for tinctures, either. I take about an ounce of popcorn buds and good sugar leaves, decarb at 220°for approximately 90mins, pop it in a quart mason jar, fill to the top with everclear and put it 8n the deep freeze. Shake it when you happen to think about it. After a week its good and can be strained. After its clean you can evaporate it...Safely of course. No open flames lol. But i just leave it all together and take out 5 or 10ml doses with a brass filter covered dropper.
5mls helps with my arthritis and depression, 10mls sends me places. Lol. I know this wasnt your original question but i wanted to share my quick, easy and effective way.
 

Scientific

New Member
pop it in a quart mason jar, fill to the top with everclear and put it 8n the deep freeze.
Just a note on technique: I always thought the "put it in the deep freeze" part was some kind of unnecessary magical nonsense, but it looks like lowering the temperature makes some of the larger molecules in the solution separate out (waxes and chlorophyll, I have read, and maybe some longer-chain oils?). Filtering these out (especially the chlorophyll) can help the flavor if you reduce the tincture to Rick Simpson Oil and then vape it (which is not the ideal process). You have to filter quickly and in the cold though lest those molecules go back into solution.

By the way, I saw once that a lot more green (i.e. chlorophyll) came out on a second, longer extraction of the herb than the first.

I say all of this just by way of technical interest, and to see if anyone else has some thoughts on the process. When I make tincture I'm happy to consume everything that the plant has to give me. :)
 

beez0404

Well-Known Member
We will see what happens today. I have the oven set to 220 degrees, the timer to 100 minutes, and the MB2 standing by to do the rest. This go around I am making just the minimum that the MB2 requires. I will be adding 8 ounces of 190 proof grain alcohol and 10 grams of product. In 5 hours the tincture will be ready to go.

Thanks Scientific for your spot on information.
 

Scientific

New Member
We will see what happens today. I have the oven set to 220 degrees, the timer to 100 minutes, and the MB2 standing by to do the rest. This go around I am making just the minimum that the MB2 requires. I will be adding 8 ounces of 190 proof grain alcohol and 10 grams of product. In 5 hours the tincture will be ready to go.

Thanks Scientific for your spot on information.
That should work. :) It should come out of the oven a slightly brownish green.

Please let us know how it goes...
 

Chris Scorpio

Member of the Month: July 2018
I've never used a machine for tinctures, either. I take about an ounce of popcorn buds and good sugar leaves, decarb at 220°for approximately 90mins, pop it in a quart mason jar, fill to the top with everclear and put it 8n the deep freeze. Shake it when you happen to think about it. After a week its good and can be strained. After its clean you can evaporate it...Safely of course. No open flames lol. But i just leave it all together and take out 5 or 10ml doses with a brass filter covered dropper.
5mls helps with my arthritis and depression, 10mls sends me places. Lol. I know this wasnt your original question but i wanted to share my quick, easy and effective way.
So you don't heat the product after it's sits in the fridge for a week?

So it's just not as concentrated or???

Interesting, why I'm asking
 

Lazarus13

Well-Known Member
I haven't heated or evaporated any as of yet. It's on my "to try/do" list but i never get around to it. Lol. Its plenty strong at a 5ml dose but not as concentrated. I believe people call it "Green Dragon" when its like this. At least thats what google says.
 

beez0404

Well-Known Member
Here is what I ended up doing. I decarboxylated 10 grams of flowers and mixed them with 12 ounces of 196 proof grain alcohol in the Magical Butter machine II. The temperature was set at 160 degrees and it runs for 4 hours. At the end I strained it through the included screening bag. Not sure if the cannabis oil evaporates or just the alcohol, but at the end of it all I had about 3 ounces of strained tincture. This is for my wife and neither of us have any experience with tinctures. She was going to try 3-4 drops to start but our fear is with so much of the alcohol evaporating off the end product might be too strong. What do you guys think?
 

Scientific

New Member
Here is what I ended up doing. I decarboxylated 10 grams of flowers and mixed them with 12 ounces of 196 proof grain alcohol in the Magical Butter machine II. The temperature was set at 160 degrees and it runs for 4 hours. At the end I strained it through the included screening bag. Not sure if the cannabis oil evaporates or just the alcohol, but at the end of it all I had about 3 ounces of strained tincture. This is for my wife and neither of us have any experience with tinctures. She was going to try 3-4 drops to start but our fear is with so much of the alcohol evaporating off the end product might be too strong. What do you guys think?
Well first off, it's definitely the alcohol that's leaving. That high proof stuff is super volatile.

So to be safe, assume 100% extraction and the most potent pot possible, say 25% THC.

10 g of 25% THC flowers gives you 2,500 milligrams of THC.
2,500 mg in 90 milliliters (3 fl oz) gives you 28 mg of THC per ml. That's pretty potent.
Drop size varies with the type of fluid and the dropper, but my alcohol tinctures are about 50 drops per ml.

So... assuming you want to start with a "standard" (mild) Colorado and Washington state dose of 10 mg of THC, at 28 mg per ml you would want 10/28ths of an ml = .36 ml.
At 50 drops per ml you would want .36*50 drops= 18 drops.

Again, that assumes 100% extraction of the very best weed.

If you assume 15% THC and not 25%, that's 25/15 = 1.67 x so 30 drops.

And then if you assume your extraction efficiency was actually just 60% and not 100%, that gives you another 1.67 multiplier, so 50 drops.

Doing that arithmetic makes finding a safe starting dose a lot quicker, but at some point you have to just pick a dose and see what happens.

I strongly recommend starting on an empty stomach so a Big Mac and Fries aren't throwing off the calculations like they did for me once, giving a very delayed response.

If it was me, I'd start with the initial 18 drops. If I didn't feel anything after an hour and a half, I'd take another 18. And so on.

Take notes and have fun. Soon you'll be the neighborhood pharmacy guru. ;)

And please post how it went!
 

Scientific

New Member
The temperature was set at 160 degrees and it runs for 4 hours.
I'm just thinking, that's long enough that even at that comparatively low temperature it might be enough to decarb by itself. Better safe than sorry, though, it seems to me.

If you are curious about the decarb process, you might want to check in on the long and never-ending "Holy Grail" thread on this forum for the ongoing discussion about optimal decarbing (but be prepared to read a LOT of posts... ;))--much discussion there and few conclusions.
 

beez0404

Well-Known Member
I'm just thinking, that's long enough that even at that comparatively low temperature it might be enough to decarb by itself. Better safe than sorry, though, it seems to me.

If you are curious about the decarb process, you might want to check in on the long and never-ending "Holy Grail" thread on this forum for the ongoing discussion about optimal decarbing (but be prepared to read a LOT of posts... ;))--much discussion there and few conclusions.
I actually found that Holy Grail thread some time ago. I didn't get too far into it before it became obvious I would be able to get 50 different methods to do the same thing and probably all of them would work to some degree. For me I just want to keep it as simple as possible. I am new enough to growing that the whole process is fun for me. And I like learning about all the different aspects. I'll read a thread about....let's say....topping. Do it? Don't do it?...........When to do it.........How to do it when you do it. Pros and Cons etc. I look for the methods most often mentioned and, if they make sense to me I give it a try. Anyway, I don't want to bore everyone.

BTW......Lisa tried the tincture last night. Her dose was 5 drops and she said it made her sleepy. With the dosage you came up with the 5 drops was probably close to a placebo and maybe her brain made her sleepy? Tonight I believe she said she was going to up the dosage to 15 drops. We'll see how that goes.
 

beez0404

Well-Known Member
The wife says to me this morning........."I think I really like the tincture but don't think I'll be able to take it" I asked her how come and she said it burns a lot. So what to do? Dilute it to half strength and take twice the dosage? I imagine it's the 190 proof alcohol that's burning under her tongue no?
 

Scientific

New Member
The wife says to me this morning........."I think I really like the tincture but don't think I'll be able to take it" I asked her how come and she said it burns a lot. So what to do? Dilute it to half strength and take twice the dosage? I imagine it's the 190 proof alcohol that's burning under her tongue no?
Oh, 190-proof ethanol is not compatible with the delicate tissues of the mouth! It must be diluted! Something warm would be the better choice since it won't cause the THC to crash out of solution. (Try putting some drops in cold water to see what I mean.) But even if the THC does start to separate out it's no big deal. Glug glug drink it all down and it will do the job. Sometimes I'll even mix it into a cocktail, but the alcohol kinda dulls the high a little.

Or you can soak it into a piece of bread.

Rant: Everyone but everyone seems to "know" that putting drops under the tongue helps them to get into your bloodstream faster, but after experimenting with that, I think it's just folklore. Try putting a (slightly diluted) dose under your tongue. Use an amount that you know from experience will affect you. Don't swallow, and after 15 minutes spit it out. If your experience is like mine, nothing will happen. People who keep the tincture under the tongue and then swallow it are getting their dose through the digestive tract, not across the mucous membranes of the mouth--not a significant dose anyway. I read an article in which people were using cannabis suppositories, but they had to take huge doses to get an effect. Even dosing orally, the liver destroys most of the THC before it gets into circulation, which is why it takes about five times to get high eating it than smoking/vaping.

So just dilute the tincture by mixing it with a little of something else that you find pleasant and get it into your stomach.

You can, by the way, dilute your bottle of tincture with water, but do it slowly with mixing. The only reason you use such concentrated alcohol to begin with is because it works better as a solvent.
 

seedsandstems

New Member
Hi Beez

I have the same Magical Butter 2 Machine and I've used it very successfully to make canaoil and butter. However, for tinctures, I like Corrine Tobias's recipe over at wakeandbake.co . Her blog is the best I've seen regarding edibles and tinctures. Here is a direct link to her tinctures page: Tinctures 101: 3 Potent Cannabis Tincture Recipes | Wake & Bake I use recipe #1 which is the old school way to make green dragon. She talks a lot about dosing so she can help you there as well. Just follow the directions precisely and it will turn out perfect.

Also, here is a direct link to the Magical Butter recipe in case you haven't seen it: Magical Tincture - MagicalButter.com

Lastly, while I know it is pricey, but I got tired of reading about the 50 different methods to decarb, I broke down and bought a NOVA Decarboxylator. It is literally idiot proof and decarbs herb to maximum potency. Now that I have one, I can't go back. You can learn more about it here: Decarboxylation Made Easy - Ardent Cannabis The way I look at it is I invested at least $200 on my vaporizer, $130 on the MB2M, so why not do the trifecta and get the best decarboxylator out there.

In regards to what I mix my tincture with, for a wake and bake, it goes great with tea or coffee. I do it every Saturday morning and it makes yard work fun ha ha. At night, I put in my beer or wine but I usually end the work day with a vodka rocks and they go together like peanut butter and jelly.
 

Oldbear

Well-Known Member
Oldbear's Magical Edible Cannabis Oil machine. Buy today 2 for $19.95 and if you order right now, I'll include a free oil storage container. That's still not all - order now and Ill include the high tech terpene and cannabinoid retention cover.



Still time to get before Xmas.
 

beez0404

Well-Known Member
Hi Beez

I have the same Magical Butter 2 Machine and I've used it very successfully to make canaoil and butter. However, for tinctures, I like Corrine Tobias's recipe over at wakeandbake.co . Her blog is the best I've seen regarding edibles and tinctures. Here is a direct link to her tinctures page: Tinctures 101: 3 Potent Cannabis Tincture Recipes | Wake & Bake I use recipe #1 which is the old school way to make green dragon. She talks a lot about dosing so she can help you there as well. Just follow the directions precisely and it will turn out perfect.

Also, here is a direct link to the Magical Butter recipe in case you haven't seen it: Magical Tincture - MagicalButter.com

Lastly, while I know it is pricey, but I got tired of reading about the 50 different methods to decarb, I broke down and bought a NOVA Decarboxylator. It is literally idiot proof and decarbs herb to maximum potency. Now that I have one, I can't go back. You can learn more about it here: Decarboxylation Made Easy - Ardent Cannabis The way I look at it is I invested at least $200 on my vaporizer, $130 on the MB2M, so why not do the trifecta and get the best decarboxylator out there.

In regards to what I mix my tincture with, for a wake and bake, it goes great with tea or coffee. I do it every Saturday morning and it makes yard work fun ha ha. At night, I put in my beer or wine but I usually end the work day with a vodka rocks and they go together like peanut butter and jelly.
I visited Corrine's site earlier and found a lot of good information. Thanks for sharing!
 

Lazarus13

Well-Known Member
The wife says to me this morning........."I think I really like the tincture but don't think I'll be able to take it" I asked her how come and she said it burns a lot. So what to do? Dilute it to half strength and take twice the dosage? I imagine it's the 190 proof alcohol that's burning under her tongue no?
I tried the "under the tongue" method and stopped doing it after 2 times. I started putting it in my coffee or mixed drink and it does the trick just fine. Just wanted to back up scientifics words with my own experiences.
Oh, 190-proof ethanol is not compatible with the delicate tissues of the mouth! It must be diluted! Something warm would be the better choice since it won't cause the THC to crash out of solution. (Try putting some drops in cold water to see what I mean.) But even if the THC does start to separate out it's no big deal. Glug glug drink it all down and it will do the job. Sometimes I'll even mix it into a cocktail, but the alcohol kinda dulls the high a little.

Or you can soak it into a piece of bread.

Rant: Everyone but everyone seems to "know" that putting drops under the tongue helps them to get into your bloodstream faster, but after experimenting with that, I think it's just folklore. Try putting a (slightly diluted) dose under your tongue. Use an amount that you know from experience will affect you. Don't swallow, and after 15 minutes spit it out. If your experience is like mine, nothing will happen. People who keep the tincture under the tongue and then swallow it are getting their dose through the digestive tract, not across the mucous membranes of the mouth--not a significant dose anyway. I read an article in which people were using cannabis suppositories, but they had to take huge doses to get an effect. Even dosing orally, the liver destroys most of the THC before it gets into circulation, which is why it takes about five times to get high eating it than smoking/vaping.

So just dilute the tincture by mixing it with a little of something else that you find pleasant and get it into your stomach.

You can, by the way, dilute your bottle of tincture with water, but do it slowly with mixing. The only reason you use such concentrated alcohol to begin with is because it works better as a solvent.
 

Kristal

New Member
I've never used (or thought I needed) an appliance for oil or tincture since all you have to do is mix the oil or alcohol with the herb and then separate them. But that said, I'll take a shot:

1. I would suggest decarboxylating first. Lower temperature for a longer time smells less and drives off less of the volatile components. I use 220 F for 110 minutes and don't cover it with foil or any of that silliness.

2. Good weed is about 20% THC, or 200 milligrams per gram. For a 10 mg dose (the standard legal dose in CO and WA for whatever that's worth) in one ml of Everclear, you would use 1 gram of that 20% cannabis (i.e. 200 milligrams of THC) for each 20 ml of Everclear. That assumes 100% extraction, but whatever's not extracted just gives you a safety margin.

To self titrate, take 1 ml of the tincture and see what happens. If nothing after a couple of hours on an empty stomach, double the dose and keep doubling until something does happen.

3. I store my tinctures in the freezer because 95% EtOH is extremely volatile (though all that evaporation does is make the tincture more concentrated, but that could give you an unwelcome surprise... ;)). It is also extremely runny and will go right by some seals that would keep in water, so watch out for that. (The dropper bottles I got from Amazon leak past the seals like crazy.)

4. From what I have read, you would want a high CBD strain for pain (though it never helped my arthritis pain any). For insomnia and THC, use the regimen above until you find a level that works for you. 10 mg is enough to give most light users a slight buzz.

Some additional, unsolicited thoughts and advice: Recent research has shown that regular cannabis users tend to have more problems with insomnia.
Insomnia Severity Index scores in daily users were higher than non-daily and non-user controls. Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index and Insomnia Severity Index scores were significantly lower for non-daily users and controls relative to the daily users... Daily marijuana users endorsed more sleep disturbance than non-daily users.
Any psychoactive substance can affect normal sleep patterns, so I'd suggest really working on your sleep hygiene (cool, dark room, regular sleep hours, etc.) and talking to a sleep specialist before self medicating.
All that said, a little taste seems to help me drift off... ;) (BTW, the new book "Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams" by Harvard sleep researcher Matthew Walker has a lot of good info about the extreme importance of lots of good-quality sleep.)

And this article about pot and sleep is good.

You might find these posts about preparation in a grow log of mine interesting: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 2017

I wish you good luck and deep and pain-free sleep. :)
Ok so is the 20ml per gram so that it's more concentrated? This is the amount I had come up with from the
MB recipe:
  • ¼-1 ounce/7-28 g botanicals per cup/240 ml*, decarbed
  • 2-5 cups/475-1180 ml Everclear grain alcohol, 151 or 190 proof (or vegetable glycerin)
I took 28g × 42 = 1176ml/ 4.97cups
I had 18g I wanted to make into tincture with 151Everclear so I multiplied by 42
18g × 42 = 756ml/ 3.19cups Everlear
And put in MB machine for 8hrs so that it's most potent as the recipe states.

So what I'm wondering is, if you use less liquid is it more potent? I did it this way and I'll have more of a yeild, but just trying to understand it all.
I thought about taking the buds that are left to 1 cup or so of Everclear and running it another cycle, but would that be a waste of time?
Please let me know your thoughts:)
Thanks!
 
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