Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion

PAR is Photosynthetic Active Radiation which are the frequencies of light used for photosynthesis. This is light between 400 and 700nm and is the only parts of the light spectrum used for photosynthesis. These PAR values correspond to the wavelengths of the lights in an LED fixture.

PPFD is Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density and refers to the amount of PAR that actually arrives at the plant and is measured in micromoles per square meter per second (μmol/m2/s).

You really can't control the PAR. The lighting manufacturer does that when they select the wavelenghts of the chips. The distance from the plant determines the PPFD (how much of the PAR they receive).

Personally, although I understand it (a little!), I've never bothered to measure the PPFD. I start with the manufacturer's recommended distance from the plant (assuming they did the research on PPFD! :D ), then either move the light closer or back it off depending on how the plants respond with the goal to get them as close as possible to the light without them showing any negative reaction.

I hope that helps!

:Namaste:

K

Since I wrote the above response on a LED thread, I thought I'd add one more "technical" concept and then break it down in some "layman's" terms...

The one additional technical concept is called the Inverse Square Law and represents the "nemesis" for us indoor growers. The Inverse Square Law basically says that if you increase the distance between the light source and the plant by "X", the amount of light reaching the plant decreases by 1/x-squared (raised to 2nd power). So, the amount of light reaching your plants at 2' away is 1/4th of the amount of light reaching the plants at 1' away. Twice the distance is 1/4th the amount of light, 4x the distance would be 1/16th the amount of light, etc.)

So, putting some of these concepts together...

Where HPS, MH, CFL, etc can all be used to grow MMJ, many of the watts you're paying for are for parts of the spectrum (frequencies/wavelengths) that are not even used by the plants since they fall outside of the PAR range of 400nm-700nm. One of the benefits of LED is that you're only getting PAR values that ARE usable by the plant. So, more of the money you spend on your electric bill actually is usable by the plant.

So, what's the PPFD? Well, even at the same distance, the PPFD changes based on the wavelength of the light. Some wavelengths can travel further distances before they start to "fall off", however, thanks to the Inverse Square Law, we know that the closer we can get the plants to the light, the more PPFD we can get to the plant.

Where the HPS & MH will beat an LED is in penetrating the canopy, so the light can be further away to get the usable wavelengths lower in the canopy, but you're still sending parts of the spectrum that are not usable and have no bearing on photosynthesis.

So, the only thing to watch is that you don't have the light source so close to the plants that they show signs of light or heat stress. Some plants may tolerate more than others, but the most they can tolerate without compromising the plant health (or, possibly the lighting footprint to other plants!), the better!

Luckily, when we grow indoors, we're typically not growing 10' plants. In a 7' tent with the light 1' from the ceiling, 1' from the canopy, and a 1' tall container, you're gonna get a plant no more than 4' tall, or so. Today's LED technology can easily penetrate those smaller canopies, get more usable spectrum to the plants, and allow the grower to place their plants close to the source without negative effect.

I hope that helps some others! ;)

:Namaste:

K
 
Since I wrote the above response on a LED thread, I thought I'd add one more "technical" concept and then break it down in some "layman's" terms...

The one additional technical concept is called the Inverse Square Law and represents the "nemesis" for us indoor growers. The Inverse Square Law basically says that if you increase the distance between the light source and the plant by "X", the amount of light reaching the plant decreases by 1/x-squared (raised to 2nd power). So, the amount of light reaching your plants at 2' away is 1/4th of the amount of light reaching the plants at 1' away. Twice the distance is 1/4th the amount of light, 4x the distance would be 1/16th the amount of light, etc.)

So, putting some of these concepts together...

Where HPS, MH, CFL, etc can all be used to grow MMJ, many of the watts you're paying for are for parts of the spectrum (frequencies/wavelengths) that are not even used by the plants since they fall outside of the PAR range of 400nm-700nm. One of the benefits of LED is that you're only getting PAR values that ARE usable by the plant. So, more of the money you spend on your electric bill actually is usable by the plant.

So, what's the PPFD? Well, even at the same distance, the PPFD changes based on the wavelength of the light. Some wavelengths can travel further distances before they start to "fall off", however, thanks to the Inverse Square Law, we know that the closer we can get the plants to the light, the more PPFD we can get to the plant.

Where the HPS & MH will beat an LED is in penetrating the canopy, so the light can be further away to get the usable wavelengths lower in the canopy, but you're still sending parts of the spectrum that are not usable and have no bearing on photosynthesis.

So, the only thing to watch is that you don't have the light source so close to the plants that they show signs of light or heat stress. Some plants may tolerate more than others, but the most they can tolerate without compromising the plant health (or, possibly the lighting footprint to other plants!), the better!

Luckily, when we grow indoors, we're typically not growing 10' plants. In a 7' tent with the light 1' from the ceiling, 1' from the canopy, and a 1' tall container, you're gonna get a plant no more than 4' tall, or so. Today's LED technology can easily penetrate those smaller canopies, get more usable spectrum to the plants, and allow the grower to place their plants close to the source without negative effect.

I hope that helps some others! ;)

:Namaste:

K

Good info, confirms a lot here. Good snapshot as to why I decided to train as I did. What about Mylar's effect on the Inverse Square Law?
 
I was looking at an above pic and noticed the power cord jack is on the top of the unit. That one factor, had I known then what I know today, something like that would have swayed me to consider this option over the one I chose. With my deal, the cord jack is on the end and I'm constantly having to remind myself it's there. When I daisy-chain, the location and length tend to want to skew the lights and bracing's required to keep them in the correct orientation. Basically, any LED on the market will grow if used correctly, it's the details like this and spectrum tweaks that differentiate them. Glad I joined the discussion, this helped connect some dots in my thinking.
 
Good info, confirms a lot here. Good snapshot as to why I decided to train as I did. What about Mylar's effect on the Inverse Square Law?

Well, mylar doesn't change the Inverse Square Law (it's a law! :D ) but becomes "part" of it.

Depending on the distance of the mylar to the light, the mylar will receive some amount of light. If you were to double the distance between the mylar and the light, the amount of light reaching the mylar would be 1/4th.

Assuming the light doesn't hit the plant, it will hit the mylar walls of the grow space. Once the light hits the mylar, being reflective, the mylar now becomes a new (2nd) light source. If the mylar is 97% reflective, 97% of the light gets bounced back to the plants (or, another wall to be reflected back as a 3rd light source!). Whatever amount of light is hitting the plant from being reflected by the mylar is 4x the amount of light that would be reflected back if the mylar was twice the distance from the plant.

So, you lose a LOT of light traveling to the mylar, then having 97% of that traveling back to the plant and losing more along the way, but whatever makes it back to the plant from the mylar is surely better than it not hitting the plant, at all; which is exactly what happened when the light hit the mylar the first time! ;)
 
Well, mylar doesn't change the Inverse Square Law (it's a law! :D ) but becomes "part" of it.

Depending on the distance of the mylar to the light, the mylar will receive some amount of light. If you were to double the distance between the mylar and the light, the amount of light reaching the mylar would be 1/4th.

Assuming the light doesn't hit the plant, it will hit the mylar walls of the grow space. Once the light hits the mylar, being reflective, the mylar now becomes a new (2nd) light source. If the mylar is 97% reflective, 97% of the light gets bounced back to the plants (or, another wall to be reflected back as a 3rd light source!). Whatever amount of light is hitting the plant from being reflected by the mylar is 4x the amount of light that would be reflected back if the mylar was twice the distance from the plant.

So, you lose a LOT of light traveling to the mylar, then having 97% of that traveling back to the plant and losing more along the way, but whatever makes it back to the plant from the mylar is surely better than it not hitting the plant, at all; which is exactly what happened when the light hit the mylar the first time! ;)

Yep, almost like a turbo scavenges waste to increase intake.
 
Oh, so many info to catch up to! Thank you @Mr. Krip for the clearification! :goodjob:
And PAR, PPF, PPFD is always the hardest part when there is someone new to indoor growing. and lights. For me as well. and I find a very easy explaination for my colleagues when they just come to the company:
- Par is the stuff that shows how good the lights can be absorbed by the plants.
- PPF, and PPFD is the data that shows PAR. :green_heart:
Par data differs depend on the height of the light, and also if you use high reflector cloth or grow tent, the data will increase as well. :surf:
 
One more thing at the weekend :slide:
Many customers asked about HLG lights, actually we are making it for another company from last year, my boss didn't want to add it into Mars collection due to there are already many series, don't want to make customers feel confusing between so many items;:reading420magazine: But since too many customers are asking about it, she decided to give it a try. Mars Hydro design is a little different. Now we might have something to look forward to. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Excellent news Sara!:thumb:
I knew your company would eventually start producing QB panels like HLG.

The response from customers will surprise you. They're going to LOVE them. :love:
 
Excellent news Sara!:thumb:
I knew your company would eventually start producing QB panels like HLG.

The response from customers will surprise you. They're going to LOVE them. :love:
We were actually making this a long time ago? But for another company, and you know there are too many hot items in Mars Hydro already, so we don't add them. :D Seems we have to follow the trend, luckily we have the tech, so we can do it quick. :D And hopefully ppl will love our design. :green_heart:
 
We were actually making this a long time ago? But for another company, and you know there are too many hot items in Mars Hydro already, so we don't add them. :D Seems we have to follow the trend, luckily we have the tech, so we can do it quick. :D And hopefully ppl will love our design. :green_heart:

Please let me know when you have these available @SmokeSara I have been looking at these and would be perfect for what I need. Will these be available at your Canada warehouse?
 
One more thing at the weekend :slide:
Many customers asked about HLG lights, actually we are making it for another company from last year, my boss didn't want to add it into Mars collection due to there are already many series, don't want to make customers feel confusing between so many items;:reading420magazine: But since too many customers are asking about it, she decided to give it a try. Mars Hydro design is a little different. Now we might have something to look forward to. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

If you bring those to market I know I will give them a real hard look as I know others will as well. I know that there are a lot of Mars lights out there producing today and the QB/Samsung style lights are the hot ticket for people shopping lights myself included.
 
Please let me know when you have these available @SmokeSara I have been looking at these and would be perfect for what I need. Will these be available at your Canada warehouse?
Yes, once they are finalized, we will ship to each warehouse. But it might be two month later, might influence your grow if you expecting it coming in a short time. :(
 
If you bring those to market I know I will give them a real hard look as I know others will as well. I know that there are a lot of Mars lights out there producing today and the QB/Samsung style lights are the hot ticket for people shopping lights myself included.
Hopefully I could apply some for test before they come to warehouse. :D
:Namaste::Namaste::Namaste:
 
Hope you all had a great weekend!
Speaking of what, I had a lot hot peppers this weekend, twice hot pot, which remind me we had some pepper growing results previous. Don't forget we can also grow vegetables, lol
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Had insomnia recently. :( Everytime like this I would hope there would be some cure around me in China. :cough: And speak of what, anyone know which strain can cure insomnia? :passitleft:
 
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