Molasses

[MountainHigh]

INVASION OF A SOIL GROWER!!!!

Hey guys, I just wanted to say, I wanted to get some lime to correct a bad soil problem I had, ended up my local nursery only had hydrated, a huge bag for 3 bucks...got it anyway. Turns out that hydrated lime is like calcium, a spare oxygen and water....I added epson salts to that and I use that as my ph up. I use it mainly with my nutes as my water is 7 from the tap and when I add a tbsp of blackstrap molasses (I am poor and growing in soil so sugar additive would be moronic versus molasses) to my de-chlorinated water, ends up at 6.5. Perfect. But my nutes end up at around 5 after mixing so I need a PH up, I use that mix of epson salts.

I prepared the mix with a 1 teaspoon of hydrated lime and 1/4 teaspoon of epson salts in a 12 ounce bottle, add water and shake. Takes on average 3.5 ml to raise 1 point of ph in my mix.

So between the two I am almost making cal/mag the wonder additive (glad I didn't buy any)

 

[GimmieGreenie]

CalMag? wasn't that stuff discontinued? i remember being a hydroponic store this 1 time over a year ago and seeing this old man freakout over the last huge container in the store. it was so funny
I use MagiCal myself, it saved my crop bigtime once. it has more stuff in it like the iron supplement so i think its better then CalMag. its the best remedy for plant deficiency in my opinion.

 

[ggriffi]

INVASION OF A SOIL GROWER!!!!

Hey guys, I just wanted to say, I wanted to get some lime to correct a bad soil problem I had, ended up my local nursery only had hydrated, a huge bag for 3 bucks...got it anyway. Turns out that hydrated lime is like calcium, a spare oxygen and water....I added epson salts to that and I use that as my ph up. I use it mainly with my nutes as my water is 7 from the tap and when I add a tbsp of blackstrap molasses (I am poor and growing in soil so sugar additive would be moronic versus molasses) to my de-chlorinated water, ends up at 6.5. Perfect. But my nutes end up at around 5 after mixing so I need a PH up, I use that mix of epson salts.

I prepared the mix with a 1 teaspoon of hydrated lime and 1/4 teaspoon of epson salts in a 12 ounce bottle, add water and shake. Takes on average 3.5 ml to raise 1 point of ph in my mix.

So between the two I am almost making cal/mag the wonder additive (glad I didn't buy any)

MH,

How much "mix" do you make at once? gallon? 5 gallons? Curious because I want to use this and I mix 5 gallons at a time

 

[insane420]

I use molasses in my compost teas, which I feed every other watering. Molasses is a key ingredient to feeding the beneficial bacteria in your mix. A mix that is rich with microbial life and humates, can help buffer you against PH problems. Feed your soil and let your plants take what they need from it.

 

[catster]

feed the soil, not the plant

Thanks for the very informative posts. As a new grower this is the info I need. I don't get how foliar feed with molasses would benefit the plant. I'm under the impression the carbs feed the microbeasties and bacterium in the soil, which in turn feed the plant. Any more info greatly appreciated.

 

[insane420]

feed the soil, not the plant

Thanks for the very informative posts. As a new grower this is the info I need. I don't get how foliar feed with molasses would benefit the plant. I'm under the impression the carbs feed the microbeasties and bacterium in the soil, which in turn feed the plant. Any more info greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't foliar feed with the EWC/BSM tea unless I was trying to correct a Mg deficiency, which BSM has a good amount of. The compost tea is full of benefical bacteria which is being fed by the molasses. This is what I use to water my plants with - I do this every other watering, but you can do this every watering. You also have to make sure your water is chlorine/chloramine free before you start the brewing process.

 

[Conradino23]

I just did my first watering with this sweet brew (2 spoons of molasses diluted in 3 L of water), using it for two plants in 2nd week of flowering (more or less). I watered my automatic variety, which is almost completed and two clones as well. I grow all of them organically in soil. As I've been reading about molasses a lot recently, I thought why not give it a try? I have a question though to someone, who's been using this stuff enough to tell the difference. Does it really make buds swell and stimulate bud growth during flowering or is it just this sweeter taste in the end?

Another one is, when do they start picking up all these microelements from the soil? After a day, two, a week, two weeks? It's quite important to me, as I don't want to sweet them to death by using molasses twice a week and get a first effect, when they're ready to crop

 

[SourSkunkD]

nice nugs bro! ive been introduced to this as well thanks alot 420!!!!

 

[maxinmaine]

Thank god for well water man, thank god! Blows a pure 7.0, easy to work with.

 

[DragonJeans]

It all depends how you use molasses. It can create favorable conditions for beneficial microflora to make a big jump in productivity. But some very smart growers say that using simple carbs for a compost tea is a bad idea because it makes the microflora surge, then crash. Kinda like if you ate nothing but sugar for a few days, you WILL see results, but they may not be in the best interests of your long term goals.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Also can clog up lines,pumps,etc. My reservoir for veg was so bad after using it for a cycle I felt it just wasn't worth the hassle of cleaning all my watering lines so I no longer personally use it. I've

 

[LungButter420]

was curious as to what you all thought of Organic coconut palm nectar/syrup? I've heard good things about using coconut for foliar sprays, IIRC, and figured the syrup is high in sugar like molasses, so it's kind of like a combo of each? I was thinking it may be good in a tea. What do you guys think? Do microbes love this stuff as much as they love molasses?

LB 420

Coconut palm nectar/syrup: Organic Coconut Palm Syrup | Wholesome!

 

[Conradino23]

Yeah ok microbes love it cause it's pure sugar. Think what happens if a bunch o stoners see a carton of donuts. What happens? They all get eaten right? And that's what's gonna happen to it when you add it to the soil. Yes literally you'll benefit the soil bacteria by letting them multiply quickly, but they won't benefit the plant cause you're gonna stop exudates production! That means you're introducing alternative food very easy to bing on which is gonna create competition for the plant you're supposed to help! And the plant needs them, she also has to keep this population under control as they can start overgrowing fungi which are needed to pull out insoluble phosphorus. You're also introducing potassium with molasses which is not much needed by cannabis, and that will start breaking the balance of nutrients. I recommend reading a book or few threads on soil biology, soil food web, and nutrient absorption in plants.

 

[LungButter420]

Yeah ok microbes love it cause it's pure sugar. Think what happens if a bunch o stoners see a carton of donuts. What happens? They all get eaten right? And that's what's gonna happen to it when you add it to the soil. Yes literally you'll benefit the soil bacteria by letting them multiply quickly, but they won't benefit the plant cause you're gonna stop exudates production! That means you're introducing alternative food very easy to bing on which is gonna create competition for the plant you're supposed to help! And the plant needs them, she also has to keep this population under control as they can start overgrowing fungi which are needed to pull out insoluble phosphorus. You're also introducing potassium with molasses which is not much needed by cannabis, and that will start breaking the balance of nutrients. I recommend reading a book or few threads on soil biology, soil food web, and nutrient absorption in plants.

lol I've already read "teaming with microbes" once and am a few chapters into "teaming with nutrients." I'm always reading but can only consume so much info every sitting. Organic gardening just a hobby of mine so I only have so much time each day to read and learn online!

Do you have any solid data that says molasses really prevents or suppresses root exudates? I've yet to come upon any reading that says molasses hinders root exudates. Could you explain further? I've been under the impression that a plethora of foods for our bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes is the best way to feed them. I think we should supply as many options as possible and let the microbes choose what they want to eat, be it donuts or what not. and honestly I think a good unsulphured molasses is much much better for our microbes than a donut, as it is after all a "pure" sugar and not some form of fructose or sucrose corn syrup. From MicrobeMan's website: "black strap molasses is a complex carbohydrate bearing lots of minerals and nutrients plus it is a powerful antioxidant." Sounds better than a donut IMO.

Regarding fungal dominance, from MicrobeMan's Website "black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying. The story was that BSM feeds only bacteria. This led to all sorts of misconceptions, even including ones made by USDA and Canada Agriculture scientists who declared that using molasses in ACT could lead to e-coli contamination. It is utter nonsense."

Potassium is not needed by cannabis? Since when? Sure maybe often it's overused during flowering but it's definitely needed by cannabis and every other plant in the plant kingdom as far as i know. From the first google search on potassium and cannabis "Potassium (K) activates the manufacture and movement of sugars and starches, as well as growth by cell division. Potassium leaches easily (deficiencies arise in sandy soils). Excesses may lead to deficiencies of calcium or magnesium. Potassium increases chlorophyll in foliage and helps regulate stomata openings so plants make better use of light and air. Potassium encourages strong root growth, water uptake and triggers enzymes that fight disease. Potassium is necessary during all stages of growth. It is especially important in the development of fruit."

Appreciate your input conradino. I'm here to learn!

Peace

LB 420

 

[Conradino23]

You can go however you want it's your grow, man! However I haven't found anything helpful in molasses when growing organically myself, it also seem to clog up the soil too much.

Here's a comment explaining why dr Elaine Ingham doesn't recommend molasses anymore (taken from Permaculture):

You’re right that Dr. Elaine Ingham (and Matt Slaughter Director of the Oregon Soil Foodweb Lab) are not recommending molasses in areated compost tea brewing. I hope its OK to write slightly long post to explain why no molasses in teas. While the results of compost tea around the world are incredible, and the general idea of making tea is accessible, like a lot of things the details, the details, the details…

One of THE KEY things to understand about the soil food web is its relation/impact to the above/below ground ecology succession pattern. From a microbiological standpoint, there are a wide range of soils and each type of soil supports or favors certain plant groupings. This is so very vital in understanding how to work with soil microbes. The succession pattern is primarily based on the mixture or ratio of bacterial biomass to fungal biomass in any given soil. The succession pattern is visualized as a continuum: on the far left you have disturbed desert like weedy soils and on the far right you have an intact healthy old growth forest. In between these outer edges you have starting from the left side a continual increase in biological complexity and diversity moving from annuals to perennials.

So, on the far left side of the succession pattern in a dry desert soil you’ll have a hard time finding visible fungi as fruiting mushrooms. These soils will typically have 8:1 bacteria to fungal ratios. Heavily bacterial dominated soils, alkaline (from bacterial secreted alkaline saccharides called slime) and Nitrogen cycled to plants in the form of Nitrate (NO3). “Weeds”, from a biological science perspective of pioneering annuals with mass seed production, love Nitrate. Now Move to the far right into the old growth conifer forest and you have a 1:100-1000 bacteria to fungal ratio. Fungi absolutely dominate in biomass in an old growth forest (think of Fungi guy Paul Stamets and where he lives in the old growth forest of the Pacific Northwet USA). The soil is slightly acid as fungi secrete acids during their externalized metabolic eating processes and the form of Nitrogen cycling in those soils is Ammonium (NH4). Trees like Nitrogen as NH4. Think of the continuum bacteria:fungi ratio looking like: 8:1______1:1________1:100-1000.

This succession pattern can evolve “forward” from left (degraded soils) to the right (ever increasing plant complexity, annual to perennials). ANything we want to grow exists somewhere along the succession pattern continum: (following the left to right succession pattern) our broccoli and cauliflower Brassicaceae; then our tomatoes, cucumbers, corn and rice; then small herbaceous plants; then vines like grapes; then fruit and nut trees; then conifers. As you move from the broccoli towards the tomotes and so on you get an EVER increasing amount of fungi biomass in the soil. If we walk away from a patch of soil and let nature grow what it wants, whatever the bacteria:fungi ratio is will favor certain groups of plants somewhere along the succession pattern continum. Dr. Ingham’s and the group of Soil Foodweb Labs around the world have amassed a lot of growing data over 20 years where they can pin point the ideal bacteria:fungi ratio of just about any plant we want to grow.

Disturbances drive the soil “backwards” or from right to left on the succession pattern. You get less fungal biomass, less perennials until it favors annuals, less humus and organic matter, less biological complexity above and below ground. Disturbances are: drought, flooding, fire, deforestation, overgrazing, compaction, inorganic fertilizers, fungicides, pesticides, plowing and tillage, (new research coming out showing) GMO plant and pesticide regimes, etc. I think its safe to say that most conventional industrial (and I would say a lot of ‘conventional organic’) agriculture is one big giant disturbance knocking the fungi out of the soil, pushing it “backwards” along the succession continuum and favoring plants that we might not want to grow.

Before brewing compost tea, the trick is to know what your current soil state is in terms of bacteria:fungi ratio and its relation to what plant groups you want to grow and then use actively aerated compost tea with either a bacterial dominance or fungal dominance to “nudge” the soil in the right direction. Bacterial or Fungal dominated tea??? Yes, in any biological system when a food for one organism is present that organism tends to do well. Molasses is bacterial food: anything that is a simple sugar like molasses, fruit juice, maple syrup, glucose, fructose bacteria LOVE. Also, high nitrogen content stuff like manure or legumes. Bacteria will thrive. Fungi, on the other hand, are made to digest complex carbon chains like cellulose or lignin (think woody material). Fungi can eat things like humid acid, kelp. Feed the tea these things and fungi generally thrive (depending on a bunch of other conditions but this gives us an idea).

So in our gardens or agricultural fields, yes even our ‘organic’ gardens (think putting natural non-chemical fungicide sulphur to control a powdery mildew outbreak doesn’t kill the good fungi as well? – all (in)organic fungicides kill both the good and the bad fungi but the bad guys repopulate typically more quickly) we tend to have degraded bacteria soil (not always but mostly). Because almost all cultivated soil that the Soil Foodweb Labs test is bacterial dominted (I’ve had a lot of agricultural soil here in Mexico tested and it confirms typical bacterial dominance) unless you want to grow Nitrate loving weeds you usually have to “nudge” the soil to more Fungal dominance. So you don’t put molasses in your teas because your soil usually already has enough bacteria – you want to focus on getting the fungi #s up.

 

[LungButter420]

appreciate the input conradino, any idea when that post was from? i've never seen that post before but I do remember Ingham saying almost all soils nowadays tend to lean towards the bacterial side of things..

That being said, MicrobeMan says "black strap molasses (BSM) feeds both bacteria/archaea and fungi equally well contrary to what the A(A)CT aficionados were saying" but I'm not quite sure as to when he last updated his site!

I've learned there are a few ways to introduce fungi back into the soil. I've heard good results using fungal dominated teas to do this. Simply add a cup or two of garden soil and/or local forest soil to your AACT brew along with some fungi food (fish hydrolysate, yucca, etc). Great info tho conradino

Peace

LB420