Moony's Moon Shot! Journal Sponsored By Herbies Seeds!

[Moony]

Unsulfured is even less useful as it provides no sulfur!

"Way sweetens the buds" based on identical clones and lab tests? What's the biology behind that theory? That the plants actually take up sugar and move it into the flowers in a way you can taste when you set it on fire? I need someone to explain the science on that to me.

The GeoFlora folks are also cutting N in flower (plants need more N in flower) and bumping P (which is unnecessary). Myths prevail in almost every nute line available on the market today.

I am planning on using Carboload to help with the sugars. I am also grabbing PK 13 14 from Canna and their expensive but powerful boost.

I think these combined with A and B at a slightly increased rate should be enough for a very powerful and tasty crop. I've never used terpinator or any of those things personally.

I know your against shed but I do flush. It's personal preference. But with this run being Coco/perlite the flush will only be 7-10 days max

 

[Moony]

From this to lovely in the blink of an eye...nicely done Moony!

Thanks shed. They really are looking great hehe. I think I've got things dialed in now just got to run the clock out. Planning on roughly 4 more weeks of veg before I flip.

I get 2nd tent and light on Wednesday so I'll be splitting them then.

 

[420 Ceasar]

Quick update time.

Just fed the ladies.

I'm using
4.5ml per litre of A and B.
5ml per litre of Ionic.
0.7ml per litre of silicone.

PH 6.0 (purposely raised this feed as last one ran at 5.2)

Plants are happy and healthy. Responding well to all the topping and training I throw at them.

Temp is solid 25 Celsius. Humidity a nice 50-55%.

Things are going great

I remembered to turn the lights down before taking pics this time hehe. Lovely deep greens as far as the eye can see.

Those are some fine ladies with exceptional coloring on them you are doing a great job looking after them keep it up now and reap the rewards later. You have those ladies humming a tune of success

 

[InTheShed]

Flush away Moony! It's a personal preference. Doesn't matter but it won't hurt, except possibly in terpene development.

 

[Jon]

Unsulfured is even less useful as it provides no sulfur!

"Way sweetens the buds" based on identical clones and lab tests? What's the biology behind that theory? That the plants actually take up sugar and move it into the flowers in a way you can taste when you set it on fire? I need someone to explain the science on that to me.

The GeoFlora folks are also cutting N in flower (plants need more N in flower) and bumping P (which is unnecessary). Myths prevail in almost every nute line available on the market today.

Well, I can't relate the science to you, that's true. And I'm not arguing, so don't get me wrong. But I have read article after article that all say almost the exact same thing as this article does. Might not have charts and graphs and numbers, but everything said in here makes sense to me.

The assessment of sweetening comes from growing plants with and without it. Simple as that. It makes a difference in the taste. I don't need any science to know that is a fact.

Geoflora seems to have an excellent product, I have yet to have the slightest issue with it. They told me themselves, when I asked them if you can add molasses to Geo, that THEY added it for us. I am reasonably certain they did not do that based on any "myths" but on their vast research on chemical and whatever other levels.

Anyway, that's my take.

 

[InTheShed]

You might get a hand-slap for that link, but the essence of their argument is this:
"Great soil also has a number of organic substances. We are specifically talking about the beneficial microbes that grow in the soil. These microorganisms play a major role in improving the overall health of your soil. Now the question is – how can you promote the growth of these microbes in your soil? By providing them proper food and nourishment. Molasses happens to be the ideal source of food and nourishment for these microbes and it helps them grow stronger and better. Molasses provides these microbes with the carbohydrates and sugars that helps them grow and therefore helps improve your soil."

Nothing about adding sweetness to your smoked flowers, just more about feeding the microbe colony in LOS as I mentioned. And like I said, there are those who say that is another garden myth:

Does Molasses Improve Soil and Plant Growth?

Should you add molasses to your garden and compost pile? Does it feed the microbes and is it necessary? Is it good for yo0ur plants?

www.gardenmyths.com

And microbes don't play a part in a synthetic nute grow. In LOS they are mandatory, but feeding them to boost them may or may not be helpful depending on who you believe.

 

[Jon]

You might get a hand-slap for that link, but the essence of their argument is this:
"Great soil also has a number of organic substances. We are specifically talking about the beneficial microbes that grow in the soil. These microorganisms play a major role in improving the overall health of your soil. Now the question is – how can you promote the growth of these microbes in your soil? By providing them proper food and nourishment. Molasses happens to be the ideal source of food and nourishment for these microbes and it helps them grow stronger and better. Molasses provides these microbes with the carbohydrates and sugars that helps them grow and therefore helps improve your soil."

Nothing about adding sweetness to your smoked flowers, just more about feeding the microbe colony in LOS as I mentioned. And like I said, there are those who say that is another garden myth:

Does Molasses Improve Soil and Plant Growth?

Should you add molasses to your garden and compost pile? Does it feed the microbes and is it necessary? Is it good for yo0ur plants?

www.gardenmyths.com

Yep. And I've read those too. Thus, this discussion. I'm trying to learn. But seriously Shed, it really does make the bud sweeter. I've had it where you can actually taste the molasses flavor and it masks the true flavor of the strain a little bit. Have you ever tried it at all regardless of the lack of actual "science" on it? Do you have a taste reference point to compare to whatever you do if anything? I do, and I truly believe you get a much stronger sugary aftertaste if you load them up with molasses (only blackstrap, organic, unsulphured) from about half way through budding on. I give that and Terpinator almost every watering with zero issues.

 

[Jon]

You might get a hand-slap for that link, but the essence of their argument is this:
"Great soil also has a number of organic substances. We are specifically talking about the beneficial microbes that grow in the soil. These microorganisms play a major role in improving the overall health of your soil. Now the question is – how can you promote the growth of these microbes in your soil? By providing them proper food and nourishment. Molasses happens to be the ideal source of food and nourishment for these microbes and it helps them grow stronger and better. Molasses provides these microbes with the carbohydrates and sugars that helps them grow and therefore helps improve your soil."

Nothing about adding sweetness to your smoked flowers, just more about feeding the microbe colony in LOS as I mentioned. And like I said, there are those who say that is another garden myth:

Does Molasses Improve Soil and Plant Growth?

Should you add molasses to your garden and compost pile? Does it feed the microbes and is it necessary? Is it good for yo0ur plants?

www.gardenmyths.com

And microbes don't play a part in a synthetic nute grow. In LOS they are mandatory, but feeding them to boost them may or may not be helpful depending on who you believe.

And of COURSE I'd like to see the science too!!!! Thank you man.

 

[InTheShed]

Yep. And I've read those too. Thus, this discussion. I'm trying to learn. But seriously Shed, it really does make the bud sweeter. I've had it where you can actually taste the molasses flavor and it masks the true flavor of the strain a little bit. Have you ever tried it at all regardless of the lack of actual "science" on it? Do you have a taste reference point to compare to whatever you do if anything? I do, and I truly believe you get a much stronger sugary aftertaste if you load them up with molasses (only blackstrap, organic, unsulphured) from about half way through budding on. I give that and Terpinator almost every watering with zero issues.

When you run the side by side clones in LOS, I'd like to see the blind taste test (not done by you). Or get a Brix meter to measure the sugar content of the clones at harvest.

And of COURSE I'd like to see the science too!!!! Thank you man.

Without the science it's all just "this tastes really sweet to me." It's like me claiming that the LED in my 2x4 tent makes for tight buds and increased harvest weight, even though the rest of the day the plants are in the sun in my backyard! That's why I keep turning down light sponsors...I can't ever make a true claim about their worth.

 

[Jon]

When you run the side by side clones in LOS, I'd like to see the blind taste test (not done by you). Or get a Brix meter to measure the sugar content of the clones at harvest.

Without the science it's all just "this tastes really sweet to me." It's like me claiming that the LED in my 2x4 tent makes for tight buds and increased harvest weight, even though the rest of the day the plants are in the sun in my backyard! That's why I keep turning down light sponsors...I can't ever make a true claim about their worth.

Ha! Well, I can't argue with the first part. I know what it would take for a real study and my taste buds definitely aren't it. But again - have you ever done it? Cuz your argument is slightly watered down if you haven't tried it yourself, correct? Science or no science? Do you think if you tried it and we both agreed on the outcome that would be a fair gauge, lacking science? Or do your taste buds suck too? Lol.

Regarding your second point, check out my 420h review today as I promised the NL folks I'd do. I talk specifically about that a little bit. I did do a fair test of the light. Those plants never left it their entire lives starting day one under it, 20/4 the whole time cuz we hadn't discussed that 24/0 thing yet at that point and I didn't want to change up midstream, lol. You are welcome to tell me I'm full of crap on that too (lol) if you like cuz I don't supply any "science" in that either. Lemme know if you check it out.

And really, thanks. These kinds of discussions are when I often learn the most. 'Specially with you. Glad you got your vinegar back!

 

[InTheShed]

Cuz your argument is slightly watered down if you haven't tried it yourself, correct?

If you can't show me scientifically how plants take up actual molasses into the flowers and that you can taste molasses when you set those flowers on fire (have you tried setting fire to molasses and inhaling it?), then the burden of proof is not on me. Feel free to add molasses to your plants and I would never tell you not to. I'm only stating what molasses does and doesn't do for soil, even according to your link. No website saying to add it to soil claims that plants actually absorb molasses, do they?

And in coco there are no microbes to feed.

If I had the space there are all sorts of experiments on clones I would run. In the meantime I refuse to make claims about anything that is supposed to boost this or that. Even the folks in the link you posted promoting molasses for organic soil don't make your claim about being able to taste it!

Regarding your second point, check out my 420h review today as I promised the NL folks I'd do. I talk specifically about that a little bit. I did do a fair test of the light.

I wasn't referring to your grow, though I did ask you about that in your thread (you didn't answer me). If those plants lived only under the Mars, then I'm sure your review was spot-on! But I can't tell you how many times I've read growers promote this or that (often sponsored) product as improving their harvest, while also making two or three other changes at the same time.

And really, thanks. These kinds of discussions are when I often learn the most. 'Specially with you. Glad you got your vinegar back!

 

[Jon]

If you can't show me scientifically how plants take up actual molasses into the flowers and that you can taste molasses when you set those flowers on fire (have you tried setting fire to molasses and inhaling it?), then the burden of proof is not on me. Feel free to add molasses to your plants and I would never tell you not to. I'm only stating what molasses does and doesn't do for soil, even according to your link. No website saying to add it to soil claims that plants actually absorb molasses, do they?

And in coco there are no microbes to feed.

If I had the space there are all sorts of experiments on clones I would run. In the meantime I refuse to make claims about anything that is supposed to boost this or that. Even the folks in the link you posted promoting molasses for organic soil don't make your claim about being able to taste it!

I wasn't referring to your grow, though I did ask you about that in your thread (you didn't answer me). If those plants lived only under the Mars, then I'm sure your review was spot-on! But I can't tell you how many times I've read growers promote this or that (often sponsored) product as improving their harvest, while also making two or three other changes at the same time.

Fair enough. But I stand by my assertion and I stand by science or not until you try it, the idea of setting molasses on fire is...come on, man. Try it on one plant and get back to me. There's no burden of proof involved...just a discussion between two growers who disagree on something. Nothing wrong with that my friend. I'll put my taste buds up against the lack of science on this and this alone.

I know, I wouldn't use it in coco of course.

The taste factor, if it exists, wasn't the point of the article. I can post many that make that claim, but none based on the science you require. Again, fair enough. I'm a science guy, so I can only argue for my taste buds to a certain point.

I didn't see your question, sorry, I will look for it. Why would you think if they only lived under the Mars it would be any different in validity than living under the 420h? I don't understand what you mean there. I didn't make any changes at all, let alone two or three others. Purely and only a 420h grow. And while I can't support my point about flarfy buds and light penetration with charts and graphs (well, I probably could but I'd have to find it all and that ain't happening, lol), I do own six lights and have grown with 8 different ones, all LED. My FC-E6500 is my 3rd best light. I won't expound on that point here. But my assessment in that regard is purely based on experience and knowing just enough about light to be dangerous.

 

[InTheShed]

Why would you think if they only lived under the Mars it would be any different in validity than living under the 420h?

Oh sorry...I thought they were under the Mars as I haven't kept track of your light brands! I just meant if they lived under only that light (and no sun) then there is no reason to doubt your review.

 

[Jon]

Oh sorry...I thought they were under the Mars as I haven't kept track of your light brands! I just meant if they lived under only that light (and no sun) then there is no reason to doubt your review.

Ah. Yeah that's the case. Their whole lives have been spent under the 420h. One could maybe argue that having the rig outdoors and them getting outdoor environment, despite their only light coming from the 420h, throws a wrench into it some. And maybe that's legit - I suppose one could argue that I saw greater lower bud density due to the outdoor environment more so than the light, and I wouldn't be able to disprove that with science. But I believe it was the light.

 

[InTheShed]

One could maybe argue that having the rig outdoors and them getting outdoor environment, despite their only light coming from the 420h, throws a wrench into it some.

Not at all! No one's grow is going to be the same as anyone else's even if everyone's growing in a tent. Your review was excellent and perfectly described what that light did for your plants. Can't ask for more than that!

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi @Moony, @Jon and @InTheShed... I would like to throw my 2c in on this molasses thing.

I use molasses as a stabilizer and a food source for the microbes in all of my fermentations and other concoctions and I believe this is the same reason that Geoflora and others use molasses in their mixes. As was said earlier, molasses contains nourishment in the perfect form for the microbes in the soil.

We would be arrogant to believe that in 2021 we suddenly know everything there is about growing this weed or even the soil itself. Those who put microbes in their feed and sell us Myco and Microbe inoculation products do a great job, but I believe there are whole sets of microbes and fungi that we have yet to identify to be able to put them in these inoculation soups. It would be a reasonable hypothesis to state that it is my believe that adding molasses to a grow helps to increase the populations of these yet to be discovered microbeasties too, so that they can do whatever it is that they do as their populations rise due to the added fuel.

I believe that I too detect another layer of taste to a grow when it has been faithfully fed in this way with molasses. The pot tastes richer to me, maybe more complete, and yes, sweeter. I don't think there is a "molasses taste" but I believe that using it allows added terpenes and additional flavor to the product. This should be able to be tested and proven, but no one has taken it upon themselves to fund such a test yet, probably because of this tendency for some influential people not to believe and even poo-poo the conclusions that come from members outside of the official scientific community. I would bet a grow light that in a carefully conducted side by side, with the end product sent to a lab for analysis, we would prove that molasses indeed adds something to the grow. I believe my hypothesis could be proven, and that of course, once documented, would be official science. Maybe in the future, I will fund such an experiment, but not while this notion that amateur science is non-science, exists in these forums.

For now, we all have to rely on our personal beliefs I guess, and it is my belief that we indeed can taste a difference in a molasses fed soil grow, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something important going on here that 2021 growers still do not understand. Thinking that we are directly tasting the molasses in the product is contrary to what we know of botany and what is really happening needs to be backed up someday with proof of the actual process that is happening, so that non scientific belief goes away.

Lately, I have gotten away from adding BSM to my water, but this discussion has reawakened the curiosity in me as to what is happening here. I will be adding it to my current LSD grow and on my Bushmans/Amnesia grow, I will not add it to a couple of control plants to see if we can see/taste/smell a difference. It will not just be me making the observations either, I will have my entire grow crew watch for visual evidence and about 20 of us will do a taste test. Science! ... well, at least to those of us not requiring research papers.

 

[InTheShed]

To be clear, I didn't say that molasses can't change aspects of an LOS grow or harvest, I said you can't taste molasses in the flowers and that there are good folks on both sides of the discussion. And anyone that finds molasses to be beneficial to their grow in LOS should use it for that reason alone.

And it's interesting that you seem to have a disdain for those interested in research papers, since the first time it was mentioned was when you brought it up here but never produced it:

I got the number, which by the way is only half a point higher and lower than your range, as I said much earlier in this thread, from an online university white paper describing the amino chelation process. I can't put my hands on that document from work this morning, but I will check my home computer for the link to the document I have been referring to and when I have the time I will provide the link to the information that you desire in some way that is legal to do on this board.

 

[Moony]

Wow alot of stuff going on here

If you can't show me scientifically how plants take up actual molasses into the flowers and that you can taste molasses when you set those flowers on fire (have you tried setting fire to molasses and inhaling it?), then the burden of proof is not on me. Feel free to add molasses to your plants and I would never tell you not to. I'm only stating what molasses does and doesn't do for soil, even according to your link. No website saying to add it to soil claims that plants actually absorb molasses, do they?

And in coco there are no microbes to feed.

If I had the space there are all sorts of experiments on clones I would run. In the meantime I refuse to make claims about anything that is supposed to boost this or that. Even the folks in the link you posted promoting molasses for organic soil don't make your claim about being able to taste it!

I wasn't referring to your grow, though I did ask you about that in your thread (you didn't answer me). If those plants lived only under the Mars, then I'm sure your review was spot-on! But I can't tell you how many times I've read growers promote this or that (often sponsored) product as improving their harvest, while also making two or three other changes at the same time.

Really interesting read! I'm on the fence. I know that Coco doesn't contain microbes. But I thought by adding white shark I was increasing the microbes in the medium? And in turn adding molasses could/would help those new microbes?

I know that carboload is designed for the plant to get the carbohydrates it needs without the microbes for easy access so would fulfill the needs for the plants. But by adding molasses I would help the microbes.


Feel free to tell me I'm completely wrong here. I am using Coco/perlite 70/30 but does have added beetle poo so there is a microbial environment In the medium possibly?

Again any corrections or help is always appreciated

 

[Moony]

Hi @Moony, @Jon and @InTheShed... I would like to throw my 2c in on this molasses thing.

I use molasses as a stabilizer and a food source for the microbes in all of my fermentations and other concoctions and I believe this is the same reason that Geoflora and others use molasses in their mixes. As was said earlier, molasses contains nourishment in the perfect form for the microbes in the soil.

We would be arrogant to believe that in 2021 we suddenly know everything there is about growing this weed or even the soil itself. Those who put microbes in their feed and sell us Myco and Microbe inoculation products do a great job, but I believe there are whole sets of microbes and fungi that we have yet to identify to be able to put them in these inoculation soups. It would be a reasonable hypothesis to state that it is my believe that adding molasses to a grow helps to increase the populations of these yet to be discovered microbeasties too, so that they can do whatever it is that they do as their populations rise due to the added fuel.

I believe that I too detect another layer of taste to a grow when it has been faithfully fed in this way with molasses. The pot tastes richer to me, maybe more complete, and yes, sweeter. I don't think there is a "molasses taste" but I believe that using it allows added terpenes and additional flavor to the product. This should be able to be tested and proven, but no one has taken it upon themselves to fund such a test yet, probably because of this tendency for some influential people not to believe and even poo-poo the conclusions that come from members outside of the official scientific community. I would bet a grow light that in a carefully conducted side by side, with the end product sent to a lab for analysis, we would prove that molasses indeed adds something to the grow. I believe my hypothesis could be proven, and that of course, once documented, would be official science. Maybe in the future, I will fund such an experiment, but not while this notion that amateur science is non-science, exists in these forums.

For now, we all have to rely on our personal beliefs I guess, and it is my belief that we indeed can taste a difference in a molasses fed soil grow, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is something important going on here that 2021 growers still do not understand. Thinking that we are directly tasting the molasses in the product is contrary to what we know of botany and what is really happening needs to be backed up someday with proof of the actual process that is happening, so that non scientific belief goes away.

Lately, I have gotten away from adding BSM to my water, but this discussion has reawakened the curiosity in me as to what is happening here. I will be adding it to my current LSD grow and on my Bushmans/Amnesia grow, I will not add it to a couple of control plants to see if we can see/taste/smell a difference. It will not just be me making the observations either, I will have my entire grow crew watch for visual evidence and about 20 of us will do a taste test. Science! ... well, at least to those of us not requiring research papers.

Thanks for popping by my journal! Good to see a new face especially such a knowledgeable one!

I completely agree. I don't think it's a direct molasses flavour. But it could be 1 of the hundreds of different chemicals involved in the flavour and smell profile of molasses which is able to be passed on or something similar? I'm quite stoned so ignore my ramblings if they make no sense haha.

Glad to have you here though

 

[Moony]

Fair enough. But I stand by my assertion and I stand by science or not until you try it, the idea of setting molasses on fire is...come on, man. Try it on one plant and get back to me. There's no burden of proof involved...just a discussion between two growers who disagree on something. Nothing wrong with that my friend. I'll put my taste buds up against the lack of science on this and this alone.

I know, I wouldn't use it in coco of course.

The taste factor, if it exists, wasn't the point of the article. I can post many that make that claim, but none based on the science you require. Again, fair enough. I'm a science guy, so I can only argue for my taste buds to a certain point.

I didn't see your question, sorry, I will look for it. Why would you think if they only lived under the Mars it would be any different in validity than living under the 420h? I don't understand what you mean there. I didn't make any changes at all, let alone two or three others. Purely and only a 420h grow. And while I can't support my point about flarfy buds and light penetration with charts and graphs (well, I probably could but I'd have to find it all and that ain't happening, lol), I do own six lights and have grown with 8 different ones, all LED. My FC-E6500 is my 3rd best light. I won't expound on that point here. But my assessment in that regard is purely based on experience and knowing just enough about light to be dangerous.

Hi Jon! Thanks for popping in. I was thinking since I'm going to be using Carboload I won't need to worry about the plants carbohydrate needs. I could try feeding one or 2 molasses out of my 9 ladies and then could test if molasses does effect flavour in Coco/perlite? It wouldn't do any harm I assume?

Let me know and I'll keep you updated when I start adding if you guys don't think it would harm the ladies in Coco to add molasses.