Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling! Help!

[Raiven]

Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HELP*

Hello all!! Thanks in advance for any help you can give!!

As you will see in the photos below, I have a few emerging issues occurring with my plants.
Im not sure if theres a defficiency or I have over watered or what...

I have read ALOT on this site and the information available is amazing.
I have started this thread because I could not find anything that matches my situation exactly.
So I was hoping to get some expert advice like I have seen all over the forums here.

Up until a couple days ago all 3 plants looked perfect...
There was a tiny concern of a tiny bit of yellowing on the small plant and a minor curling on two leaves of the medium plant...
The large plant was always the healthiest looking with no issues whatsoever...

Here is some background info on the last few nute/water days:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 15
Veg. Day 4
06-26-14 6:00 pm

-All 3 plants healthy and growing
-2nd day of nutrients (Fox Farm Soil Feeding Schedule "Week 1")
-----Big Bloom: 1/2 Tsp
-----Boomerang: 1/4 Tsp
-----Mixed into 1/2 quart of water
-----Mixture poured eaually into each plant
-Temp.: 81 deg - 106 deg
-Hum.: 29% - 64%
-24 hr light
-Rotated each plant 1/4 turn
-Started fan on plants today / 1 hr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 19
Veg. Day 8
06-30-14 6:30 pm

-All plants looking healthy
-Really starting to get some good growth
-Still large size difference between plants / small medium and large
-3rd day of nutriensts (Fox Farm Feeding Schedule "Week 2")
-----Big Bloom: 2 Tsp
-----Grow Big: 3/4 Tsp
-----Boomerang: 1/3 Tsp
-----Microbe Brew: 1/2 Tsp
-----Mixed into 1/2 quart of water
-----Poured equally among plants
-Mist applied of water only
-Temp.: 79 deg - 104 deg
-Hum.: 25% - 52%
-24 hr light
-1/4 turn for each plant
-Fanned plants 2+ hrs
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Day 22
Veg. Day 11
07-03-14 5:45 pm

-Plants look very healthy
-Excellent growth / Medium and small starting to catch up a little
-4th day of nutrients (Fox Farm Feeding Schedule "Week 2")
-----Big Bloom: 3 Tsp
-----Grow Big: 1 Tsp
-----Boomerang: 1/2 Tsp
-----Microbe Brew: 1/2 Tsp
-----Mixed into 1 quart of water
-----Poured equally among plants mostly / a little more went into the larger two plants
-Mist applied / water only
-Temp.: 77 deg - 95 deg
-Hum.: 21% - 54%
-1/4 turn for each plant
-24 hr light
-A/C continuously running set to 70 - 75 deg
-Fanned plants 4+ hours
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

My daily Grow Journal with the above info and alot more can be found here:
Raiven's 1st Indoor Grow - THC Bomb Auto - 2014

Description of issues:

Small Plant
-showing increased yellowing on some leaves
-showing some browning now as well
-some leaf tips curled up a bit
-some curled in weird ways as if they were pinched together in the middle
(below photos of small plant)

Medium Plant
-looking like the healthiest plant at this point
-only the smallest furthest down two serrated leaves show any problems
---they have a tiny bit of yellowing and the sides of the leaves (from the middle to the tip) seem to be folding in on themselves a bit
(below photos of medium plant)

Large Plant
-this was always the healthiest looking plant as well as the first to pop thru seed thru soil and has been the largest from the start
-most leaves now just this morning are showing white and or yellowish spots on them
-the lowest level serrated leaves are starting to look similar to the ones on the medium plant
-the next larger up serrated leaves only on one side of the plant seem to be bowing down a bit
---only the middle of the three leaves though
(below photos of large plant)

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

Thank you!!



Raiven...

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Here are a couple group shot photos so you can see how they are placed and where the light is located as far as distance and such...
Let me know of any other useful data I could provide...

 

[labexperiment]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

In your post I did not see anywhere about PH adjusting the water. Do you PH balance your water after adding the nutrients to it?


Cannabis Plant and Pest Problem Solver - Pictorial

There is a start for you to work with.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Do not I repeat do not pH your food/water in FFOF! There are plenty of buffers that maintain pH balance at the root zone. The problem is FFOF and FFHF have been having low pH issues. Check the pH of your soil, there's a couple different ways to check. Read my tread "foxfarm soils and pH"

 

[labexperiment]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Sorry I missed he was using FFOF.

 

[Marzbadrock]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Ya know 5 years ago you couldn't beat FFOF or FFHF, now its so inconsistent. I found a piece of half burned cedar about the size of a tall can of beer, I'm sure that shouldn't be there. Also very sporadic pH, anywhere from 4.8 to 6.9 fresh out of the bag. I'd suggest making your own soil, or going to soilless. I finally give up on FF completely and switched to coco, with a couple added nutrients and pH consistently I'm surpassing in taste, quality, and quantity.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

In your post I did not see anywhere about PH adjusting the water. Do you PH balance your water after adding the nutrients to it?

Thank you for your response!

I did not mention it youre right, but I did test the Ph of the tap water and it came out between 6.5 and 6.9 after three separate testing times.
With those results I did not feel it necessary to test the Ph any further.
It is also possible that I mis-read it; This of course being my first grow and experience doing these kinds of things (i.e. Ph testing, soil testing & pretty much anything having to do with a grow operation).
But the test tube of tap water plus 3 drops of the Ph test liquid came out to a greenish color, and according to the scale it came with, that was the acceptable range that I detailed above.

Thank you for the charts as well...
I had seen that diagram of all the deficiencies earlier today but I dont feel that any match exactly...
Moreover I am afraid of choosing a solution and having it be wrong and coming to worsen the problem...

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Do not I repeat do not pH your food/water in FFOF! There are plenty of buffers that maintain pH balance at the root zone. The problem is FFOF and FFHF have been having low pH issues. Check the pH of your soil, there's a couple different ways to check. Read my tread "foxfarm soils and pH"

Thank you for your reply!

You should be happy to know that I have indeed NOT Ph adjusted anything from the start...
I wanted to soil test for Ph but I did not do the best research and by the time I finally got everything in the seeds were popping and I just put them in and got it going...
Everything was going really well except the difference in size from one to the other still makes me nervous...Since they were all planted at the same time and are the same strain...

I am going to read your thread about soils and pH right now (I just now realized my last reply to this post and in the beginning of this one as well I kept writing Ph instead of pH...dumb...anyway)...

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

So as far as the nutrients and amounts I used along with the amount of water left out for 24 hrs
and the images


Best bet is to look closely at the soil pH you guys think?

 

[SoilGirl]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

I have theories but they're only theories right now, so I'm just gonna keep my eye on this one. Add pics if you see it get any worse please.
Things not to worry about: small plant: you say you see increased yellowing but I don't see it unless you mean the lighter green color around new growth, which is normal in my experience.

Medium plant: You noticed the smallest, 2 furthest down serrated leaves showing deformities. This is also normal in my experience, your two first sets of leaves (the round sprouts and those 2 tiny first serrated leaves) pretty much always get some deformities once they've served their purpose, even if the rest of the plant is healthy. I pick them off once I have the third set coming in.

Large plant: I wouldn't worry about the low fan leaves "bowing down a bit" as you put it. Your leaves will move up and down depending on how watered they are and where the light is, if it starts to curl under or over that means there's some issue though. and same thing about the lowest level serrated leaves. about the yellow spots... if that starts to spread through the leaf turning it yellow but leaving the veins green it'd be safe to bet its a Magnesium deficiency.
For now: figure out your soil pH, optimal pH for absorbing EVERYTHING with no excess buildup (leading to lockout) in a soil grow is 6.5-6.8.
Hope this helps and good luck on your first grow I'm sure you'll get through it and end up with a little something to puff on. Try not to overthink things.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Thank you so much for your response SoilGirl!!

Theories work for me...I appreciate you following to see the progress...
I will definitely be uploading some more pictures tonight when I get home...

In the small plant the issues with yellowing and or browning along with curling and what almost looks like rot, is evident in the first third pictures above in my first post...
---you can see it clearly in the first picture on the far left and far right leaves
---and the third picture is a close up of one of those leaves (these leaves are not the first pair of serrated ones)

Medium Plant
that is good news for this plant...
puts some of my fears to rest...

Large Plant
thanks to you i wont be worrying about the bowing down leaves anymore...
i will keep an eye out for any curling and report it immediately...
i will also watch the spots and post on their status as well...

I will figure out the pH of the soil tonight and get back on here with pictures an info...

This was very helpful and thank you!!
I am a CLASSSSSSIC over thinker, but I will try to put that aside during my grows lol...
I just love weed mannnnn and I dont wanna kill it

 

[labexperiment]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

You should start a journal.

 

[SoilGirl]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Thank you so much for your response SoilGirl!!

Theories work for me...I appreciate you following to see the progress...
I will definitely be uploading some more pictures tonight when I get home...

In the small plant the issues with yellowing and or browning along with curling and what almost looks like rot, is evident in the first third pictures above in my first post...
---you can see it clearly in the first picture on the far left and far right leaves
---and the third picture is a close up of one of those leaves (these leaves are not the first pair of serrated ones)

Medium Plant
that is good news for this plant...
puts some of my fears to rest...

Large Plant
thanks to you i wont be worrying about the bowing down leaves anymore...
i will keep an eye out for any curling and report it immediately...
i will also watch the spots and post on their status as well...

I will figure out the pH of the soil tonight and get back on here with pictures an info...

This was very helpful and thank you!!
I am a CLASSSSSSIC over thinker, but I will try to put that aside during my grows lol...
I just love weed mannnnn and I dont wanna kill it

In the small plant what your seeing in grower's terms is necrosis. But I only have theories as to why its happening... possible phosphorous deficiency, but I wouldn't act on that yet because I don't see why it would be phosphorous deficient with you feeding it that much in early life, as well as being in nutrient rich soil in the first place. What I suspect is a pH problem being most likely, especially since you're using fox farm, and this is your first grow. pH issues are very common in first grows. It could be the beginning of nutrient lockout because of excesses of certain nutrients. 9 times out of 10 soil pH issues are caused by the water going into the soil, but you may well be the exception 1/10 there considering that you have lots of additives to your soil. You should get a General Hydroponics pH kit if you don't have anything for pH, they're pretty cheap (under 20 bucks) and that comes with some pH up and pH down, a test vial, and the color reaction drops with a chart to test your water, also test the run off that comes out of the bottom of your containers.

No problem Raiven, I'm glad to help I remember my first grow, it was a disaster lolol, I'll do my best to help not let that happen to you.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

You should start a journal.

I actually have a journal going already
I am going to put it in my Sig now

Check it out: Raiven's 1st Indoor Grow - THC Bomb Auto - 2014

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

In the small plant what your seeing in grower's terms is necrosis. But I only have theories as to why its happening... possible phosphorous deficiency, but I wouldn't act on that yet because I don't see why it would be phosphorous deficient with you feeding it that much in early life, as well as being in nutrient rich soil in the first place. What I suspect is a pH problem being most likely, especially since you're using fox farm, and this is your first grow. pH issues are very common in first grows. It could be the beginning of nutrient lockout because of excesses of certain nutrients. 9 times out of 10 soil pH issues are caused by the water going into the soil, but you may well be the exception 1/10 there considering that you have lots of additives to your soil. You should get a General Hydroponics pH kit if you don't have anything for pH, they're pretty cheap (under 20 bucks) and that comes with some pH up and pH down, a test vial, and the color reaction drops with a chart to test your water, also test the run off that comes out of the bottom of your containers.

No problem Raiven, I'm glad to help I remember my first grow, it was a disaster lolol, I'll do my best to help not let that happen to you.

I was worried about pH from the start... I dont know why I didnt really look into the soil pH and or how to test it...
I was under the impression from the research that I did, that FF Ocean Forest was an OK to use "SOILLESS" mix... But after more research on here Im reading that the pH can be all over the place and that there may be more in the soil than just soil perlite and vermiculite or whatever is supposed to be in soilless mixes...

I have attached a picture below of the pH balance kit that I have...
It consists of a vial for testing, a small squeeze bottle of some solution & and two large bottles of UP and DOWN...

My concern with testing the runoff water from the plants is that they were planted as seed right into 3 gallon pots...
I read somewhere that it was less stressful for AUTO-FLOWER seeds if you plant them directly into their "FINAL" pot, instead of starter pot or cup then larger and larger pots, that each re-plant would stress it out too much...
So the problem is with the amount of water I have been using...Even though the plants started out in the same pot they will be in the whole time, I have been watering them as if they were in gradually larger pots... i.e. when they were only tiny plants i only gave them enough water to say soak up a rockwool cube...
As they got a bit larger I would give them enough water to fill say a SOLO cup...
At this point (since I cannot see the root mass and know how far its spread) Im not sure how much water to give...And unless I pour 3 gallons in to each one I dont think I can get any run off...
I have not seen any run off AT ALL with any waterings yet...

Please let me know what you think...
Also if you are familiar with the kit Im using below, could you tell me the best way you would check the soil pH with a liquid kit other than runoff water??
Or should I just flood the plants and test the runoff? Would that be considered a FLUSH you think??
Should I flush??
Today is supposed to be the first day of nutrients for the 3rd week of the FF feeding schedule...

Im gonna try to find out how to test the soil in case I dont hear from you tonight...
I would like to stick to the schedule of MONDAY and THURSDAY as my feeding days... But whatever is best for the plants ultimately will win...

Im so sorry for rambling...Like I said OVER THINKER hahaha

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

So heres todays updates on the three plants...
As of right now they have been in 24 hr light still with no water or nutes for a few days now...
Tonight is the night I am supposed to start the 3rd week of Fox Farm Soil Feeding Schedule...
Planning on using half strength in a quart of water and pouring it in relative roughly to the size of the plant...Although I do not know how effective this is or what...
i will probably wait a couple more hours to see if anyone responds to these new posts as far as telling me NOT TO FEED or to FLUSH the plants or any other advice...

Anyway, below are todays pictures...
The large plant and the medium plant look really good today...the small plant looks a bit worse though...

SMALL PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEDIUM PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LARGE PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GROUP SHOTS:

 

[SoilGirl]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

I was worried about pH from the start... I dont know why I didnt really look into the soil pH and or how to test it...
I was under the impression from the research that I did, that FF Ocean Forest was an OK to use "SOILLESS" mix... But after more research on here Im reading that the pH can be all over the place and that there may be more in the soil than just soil perlite and vermiculite or whatever is supposed to be in soilless mixes...

I have attached a picture below of the pH balance kit that I have...
It consists of a vial for testing, a small squeeze bottle of some solution & and two large bottles of UP and DOWN...

My concern with testing the runoff water from the plants is that they were planted as seed right into 3 gallon pots...
I read somewhere that it was less stressful for AUTO-FLOWER seeds if you plant them directly into their "FINAL" pot, instead of starter pot or cup then larger and larger pots, that each re-plant would stress it out too much...
So the problem is with the amount of water I have been using...Even though the plants started out in the same pot they will be in the whole time, I have been watering them as if they were in gradually larger pots... i.e. when they were only tiny plants i only gave them enough water to say soak up a rockwool cube...
As they got a bit larger I would give them enough water to fill say a SOLO cup...
At this point (since I cannot see the root mass and know how far its spread) Im not sure how much water to give...And unless I pour 3 gallons in to each one I dont think I can get any run off...
I have not seen any run off AT ALL with any waterings yet...

Please let me know what you think...
Also if you are familiar with the kit Im using below, could you tell me the best way you would check the soil pH with a liquid kit other than runoff water??
Or should I just flood the plants and test the runoff? Would that be considered a FLUSH you think??
Should I flush??
Today is supposed to be the first day of nutrients for the 3rd week of the FF feeding schedule...

Im gonna try to find out how to test the soil in case I dont hear from you tonight...
I would like to stick to the schedule of MONDAY and THURSDAY as my feeding days... But whatever is best for the plants ultimately will win...

Im so sorry for rambling...Like I said OVER THINKER hahaha

That's the stuff! GH pH kits are cheap but very effective. Now on to the rest of what you said...
you're still over thinking things haha. The way some growers talk about weed you'd think it wouldn't get past a seedling in the wild, its actually a really, really hardy plant. for example, if you snap one of your main branches off your plant, but its hanging on by a hair, just get a little tape and tape it back where it was and it will heal up like it was just a little scratch almost every time (This is even true if you snap your main stem).
about the transplanting thing, I've not worked with autoflowers before, but I've done many many transplants, and if you're good at them, you don't stress your plant out really at all. The trick is not causing any damage to the roots or crumbling the soil, handling them quickly and carefully. Once you've done a few there really won't be any "shock period" that so many growers fear. The only time I accidentally shock my plants during a transplant is if I do it a bit too early, to the point where the roots don't hold all the soil in the container together firmly and it crumbles.

Here's my advice for transplants, water before transplanting, squeeze the sides of your containers a little bit to loosen it up so it'll slide out easily, make sure you have your next pot ready with soil waiting, don't pull on the plant to get it out, just slowly turn over the container and be ready when it slides out to catch and work quickly, if you need to touch the roots (you usually need to if its a large transplant, say 5 gal to 15 gal) I'd either wear gloves or at least have washed hands, once you have it in the new soil and the surface is relatively even water it in again. See, over watering happens almost always when you water too often, not if you water too much at once. If it were from watering too much at once no weed plant would ever get through a decent rain without shock, au contrair, my plants love the rain

That brings me to your watering thing... I don't know where you got the notion that you need to water it according to the size of your plant, you water the soil. Not the plant. See, soil needs to be moist for your roots to expand, if you only water a little dribble in a small area of your container, that's where your roots will go, and they won't spread out to the rest of the pot like you want them to. You need to water your whole container, and it won't take 3 gallons of water. I bet if you water with a gallon or slightly less per 3 gallon container, you'll still get run off, and that's the goal. You know you've watered sufficiently when you get a little bit of run off. Which brings me to the pH thing again. Test your runoff and test your water before watering (with the nutes you added unless they're very colored and will mess with your pH reading, and also take a pH measure of your tap just to see what it's like if you're using your tap, your filtered water if that's what you're using, etc.) ... I promise you won't drown your plants haha. and no that's not a flush, a flush for a 3 gallon container would be 9 gallons I believe (there's no reason for you to flush right now).

Guz Fraba Raiven, say it with me, Guz Fraba lol. Don't overthink! It's good that you care so much, but relax, your plants don't need an overbearing mother

Edit: Test your water with the nutes added anyways, even if the nutes are colored. Also test water before adding nutes.

 

[Raiven]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

What an awesome reply LOL...

This puts so many of my fears to rest...

Ive read a bit about fixing snapped branches and using super cropping with duct tape hahahaha...
I think if the soil can be brought to normal pH i wont have to transplant...Im sure the roots havent made it past maybe 4 or more inches out from the center of the plant...Since Ive only been watering a fraction of what I should have been...

I did a fair amount of research on transplanting and everything you said sounds exactly right...I think on my next run I will use smaller containers then gradually move up to these 3 gallon pots...Then I will get some practice in LOL...

I got all my info on watering and everything else over a 3 month information binge including hours of reading forums, endless hours of youtube videos & hearsay from alot of people I know that thought they knew everything hahaha... Needless to say the information was SO diverse...
So many of the same concepts told in so many different ways...
I tried to make sense of all of it but there is so much...
Now on here actually talking to someone directly about it is so much better!!!
I learn so much better "hands on" if you will with someone who has done something before helping me along...

I will do run off, tap water & nute water testing (not in that order) tomorrow after work when i start the week 3 feeding schedule...
Ill use 1 gallon approx. per 3 gallon pot as opposed to previous waterings...

Great advice & thank you again!!

By the way, LOVE the Anger Management reference!!!
Thank you for bringing me back from sanity about my plants LOL

Updates again tomorrow!!

Have a great night!!

 

[SoilGirl]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

Ill use 1 gallon approx. per 3 gallon pot as opposed to previous waterings...

]

Did I say to use 1 gallon approx.? I didn't mean to if I did, just water until you see a teeny bit of run off. That's how I go about it. Then don't water again until you can stick your finger in up to the first knuckle and feel dryness.

I did a fair amount of research on transplanting and everything you said sounds exactly right...I think on my next run I will use smaller containers then gradually move up to these 3 gallon pots...Then I will get some practice in LOL...

If that's what you choose, I'm sure it'll do just fine and you'll get good experience. But I also just want to say that, as long as you're growing Autos and you water all your soil until there's just a little bit of run-off, starting off in the 3 gallon pots will work just fine as well. Its up to you.

I think if the soil can be brought to normal pH i wont have to transplant...

You won't need to transplant this grow, that was just for future reference. Transplants, if done correctly, are a very useful tool for growing
You're very welcome Raiven, I understand. and hahaha I thought the Anger Management reference was appropriate, glad you liked it

By the way: if your runoff has particles from your soil in it, just use a coffee filter to get rid of that crap before you do your test. looking forward to your update tomorrow.

Edit: Oh how rude of me, Good Night Raiven, sweet dreams of green

 

[Lester Freeman]

Re: Multiple issues with first time grow!! Yellowing, spotting and some curling!! *HE

So heres todays updates on the three plants...
As of right now they have been in 24 hr light still with no water or nutes for a few days now...
Tonight is the night I am supposed to start the 3rd week of Fox Farm Soil Feeding Schedule...
Planning on using half strength in a quart of water and pouring it in relative roughly to the size of the plant...Although I do not know how effective this is or what...
i will probably wait a couple more hours to see if anyone responds to these new posts as far as telling me NOT TO FEED or to FLUSH the plants or any other advice...

Anyway, below are todays pictures...
The large plant and the medium plant look really good today...the small plant looks a bit worse though...

SMALL PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEDIUM PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LARGE PLANT:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GROUP SHOTS:

The growth looks fine! Nothing to worry about here. Like SoilGirl said, once the initial leaves have served their purpose and "adjust" to their soil and home, they grow out of it. Based off these last pictures, I'm not sure what the big fuss is about. One cannot expect each and every specimen to be exactly perfect all the time, there is always going to be some little blemish, or metabolic abnormality being expressed in the leaves, as long as its localized and the new growth looks lush,green, and unaffected - then we're golden.

If I was worried, then I would just flush the pot and get some good run-off. A good flush can be real helpful sometimes. I personally don't mess with the pH of my soils ever since I have dolomitic lime as a pH buffer already in my soil. So if you have no buffer, adjusting your water pH won't do much. Sometimes less is more, I think that is one of these situations.

Looks fine to me!


PS. Refrain from overwatering right now! They will grow a lot if you don't overwater. It may even be unnecessary to flush that small plant, especially if the new growth is unaffected.