MVortex's Perpetual Thread For A 4x4 Tent & RDWC

[multiVortex]

So I see! It's also good to see you found a bit of time to do an update too!

You're welcome! I’ve been collecting pics, but been hard to find a few minutes to get things down. Just finished trimming the 4th plant from my other tent, and now just one more from there in a couple weeks.

Ha! Congrats on JOTM as well!
Just got caught up with that one. Well done and well deserved!

Thanks! It was quite the surprise to find this morning!

 

[DeeCee112]

Congrats on the award my friend. I don’t know how you find time for all your projects and journals but there are some gems of information in all of them so I’m glad you do!

 

[multiVortex]

Congrats on the award my friend. I don’t know how you find time for all your projects and journals but there are some gems of information in all of them so I’m glad you do!

Thanks!

I tell you what, I don't know either!

You can tell when I get super busy though. Either with real work, the gardens, or both and more. First I get behind on all the great journals I follow, and don't get to comment much. Second, the updates in my own slow down.

I've been at the second point for the last week or two, but I'm hopefully starting to get back to at least treading water. At least over the summer I'll only have one tent running, and it may even be at a lower capacity. (Yeah, ok. Not! )

 

[multiVortex]

Have a slight issue, it seems.

Not everywhere, only 2 or 3 spots. This is as bad as it gets.

Newest growth looks alright so far.


Having previously been at 6g/gal of MC, plus another 1ml/gal of calmag, you would think this wouldn't have been much of an issue. This last change was 6.25g/gal, and 1.5ml of calmag, and it appears the ship is being righted by the newest growth. Guess it goes back to that old saying, right? "You can please em all some of the time, or some of them all the time. You can't, however, please em all, all of the time."

It may have been a little earlier than I think, but whatever. When I change out the res this weekend I'll bump the calmag up to 2ml or 2.5ml per gallon. In the interim I'll raise the pH from the 5.9 it's at right now, up to 6.2-6.3 and go from there.

Since full flowering has set on, the pH trend has been to slowly drift down from where it starts. Maybe I'll add a ml or two of silica to give it some help in that regard. (With Ca/Mg being better available at the upper end of the hydro range.)

Either way, better be on my toes to make sure it doesn't continue to be an issue.

 

[MrSauga]

Either way, better be on my toes to make sure it doesn't continue to be an issue.

As long as you have a handle on it now things should be OK. Things change fast with these plants. I'm always afraid to open my tent for the first time each day as I never know what to expect

 

[multiVortex]

As long as you have a handle on it now things should be OK. Things change fast with these plants. I'm always afraid to open my tent for the first time each day as I never know what to expect

You and me both. It's like playing russian roulette.

I think I'm on top of it, but definitely keeping a sharp eye on new growth for now.

On top of this, I've now twice caught my controller in a "freeze" mode. Had to unplug/replug to reboot it. Thankfully, both times were close enough to on/off time that it didn't make a difference. I think I've found the workaround, and that is to activate the controller (wake the screen from sleep mode) any time I go into the garden space. We'll see how it goes with that I guess.

I like the timer, specifically for a couple reasons. First, better ability to control intensity. The light itself can be set to 0/40/60/80/100 via a control knob (I don't think 20% is an option but could be.) With the controller, it's 10%-110% in 1% increments. So a much finer control over the intensity. It also has a sunrise/sunset feature that turns the light on at minimum %, and ramps up to the set percentage over a time period you specify. Then reverse for sunset. I have it set for 20 minutes, and like the feature overall.

 

[multiVortex]

After a shot of pH up yesterday afternoon, the pH was up from 5.8 to 6.1 at last check last night just about an hour before lights out. I'll check it again this morning, and add a little more if needed. I'd like to get it to 6.3 or even 6.4, but trying not to swing it significantly in a short time.

With the trend of the pH lowering itself naturally, a bump to 6.4 would give it a little leeway before the water change Saturday afternoon.

 

[DrCannaCanadian]

Hey @multiVortex ,

Your garden is awesome!

We're really interested in RDWC in a 4'x4' tent - so we'll likely read your entire journal soon.

Do you think 6.4 pH is too high for RDWC?

And is it 'safe' to go over 6 grams / gallon of MC? Or does that depend on how well the environment parameters are dialed-in?

We just started using MC a few weeks ago in coco.

 

[multiVortex]

Hey @multiVortex ,

Your garden is awesome!

We're really interested in RDWC in a 4'x4' tent - so we'll likely read your entire journal soon.

Do you think 6.4 pH is too high for RDWC?

And is it 'safe' to go over 6 grams / gallon of MC? Or does that depend on how well the environment parameters are dialed-in?

We just started using MC a few weeks ago in coco.

Thanks! It's been a hell of a lot of work. More than it should have been, and then some.

If you want to set something similar up, I'd be happy to help you avoid all the fuckups... err, pitfalls... that I fell into. Man it was a mess.

For pH, 6.4 isn't too high, but it's at the top end of the range. With this type of setup, your pH tends to rise in veg, and fall in flower. So in veg, I'll pH the water to about 5.6 or 5.7. For flower, I try to hit 6.3-6.4. This way the pH can rise/fall and still be within the 5.5-6.5 range. My only dislike of MC in hydro like this is that the roots end up stained a light brown. Makes it a little tougher to detect root issues in their early stages. For this setup, I've considered switching to Jack's. Just not 100% sure on that yet, but I have plenty of time to think it over as I'll shut the RDWC down after this run and leave it quiet until late August/early September.

For the amount of MC, it depends. There are so many factors to consider. It really comes down to the plant itself. Some want more, some don't. Right now mine are running 6.25-6.5g/gal which is about the top end for these girls. The best thing is to just read your plants, and watch to see what they tell you. The will let you know if they want more MC (leaves too light) or if they want a little less (leaves too dark.)

You definitely don't want to run anything else with it, calmag and protekt aside.

 

[DrCannaCanadian]

Alright perfect!

I can tell already that you'll be an awesome mentor - you're responses are very thorough and well laid out!

Maybe I could start with a one bucket system - even DWC - just to get my feet wet.

I could run the auto in the corner of the flower tent - again - it's for learning - not necessarily for yield at this point.

And just so we're on the same page, I'm interested in moving to hydroponics because I'm think it will give better yields than soil or coco if we get the environment dialed-in right?

What do you think?

PS: Thanks for your time

 

[multiVortex]

PS: Thanks for your time

You're welcome.

I could run the auto in the corner of the flower tent - again - it's for learning - not necessarily for yield at this point.

For running an auto in an already flowering space, I'm not 100% convinced that would be ideal. I'm not saying don't, or that it is impossible, however there are a few things to consider. First is lighting. That auto should get 18/6 all the way. You could maybe do 16/8, and some run 20/4, and even 24/0. I'm in the 18/6 camp, and honestly my lights are good enough that 16/8 would still provide enough DLI. I settled on 18/6 just to be on the safe side, even though pretty much anything after about 16.5 hours may be "wasted."

With going into a flowering space, and one that is 12/12, it wouldn't be great. That plant is going to be missing some light input, and may not do near as well. There also is intensity to consider, as the light will be farther away. It should work out alright, but it again isn't going to be great. I tend to run my lights in veg at 24" above the canopy, and anywhere from 30%-60%. Once I hit flower, I drop it to 18" and bump up to 80% for the first 2 weeks. After that I crank the light to 100%, and leave it at 18". The last 2 weeks, I cut the light to 80%, and drop it down to 12".

There is also canopy height/density to consider. You could put the plant on a stool or something to get it up closer, but then you'll be frying it with the higher intensity light. If you leave it lower, the canopy above could block light from it.

If you can manage those, then you're down to only giving it 12 hours of light. It will work, but it may stunt the growth a good bit.

Maybe I could start with a one bucket system - even DWC - just to get my feet wet.

I thought about the same thing initially. That turned into using a second 5gal bucket as a res per bucket. Long story short, I ended up where I'm at. DWC isn't bad. There are some things with running it that I'd personally rather not mess with. Not that they're big deals, but it's a hair more work than with a res. Plus if you're going to SCROG at all, then it gets even more tricky.

First is only having 5gal of space. That's for roots and water. As roots take up space, that's less room for water. That means you'll be mixing more, changing more often, and trying to lift a plant up off a bucket when it's in full flower. (Try doing that with the plant weaved into a SCROG.

So in trying to figure out a way to drain/fill a bucket without taking the lid off, that started the path to RDWC.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of folks around here that are killing it with DWC. For me, and I know how I am, RDWC gives me DWC, but an easier time managing the individual buckets and water.

And just so we're on the same page, I'm interested in moving to hydroponics because I'm think it will give better yields than soil or coco if we get the environment dialed-in right?

In a side by side, with all other things being equal, soil, coco, hydro in that order for smallest to biggest yield potential. It's not going to be a miracle worker though, and we're talking a few percent difference, not turning a 1/4lb plant into 1/2lb or 3/4lb. However, hydro will be a faster growth for veg, and plants will get a little bigger.

There is another option though. Dutch buckets. Some call them bato or hempy buckets. They've been used for decades with great success, and IIRC originated in Europe.

As I mentioned earlier, it's what my next auto run in my Lab tent will be running. What I've found thus far is that it's a really nice balance. It's still hydro, but more of a balance between DWC/RDWC, and something like promix or soil. A few of the nice things about soil/promix are retained, as are some of the nice things about DWC/RDWC.

For example, with RDWC/DWC, you need to be very observant of your water temps as they affect dissolved oxygen levels. So maintaining them at a stable temp with max holding capabilities for dissolved O2 is a priority, which means when the temps outside are up, you'll need to add a chiller to the setup. (Which is why I'm shutting down my RDWC over the summer, along with cutting back on consumption so the AC won't break the bank.) With a dutch bucket, that's not the case as the roots get O2 from the air like with soil.)

The short of it is that it's still hydro so you get that growth. You can still recirc the water, but you don't have to be overly worried about water temps. You don't have to worry about over watering, like you do with soil/promix, and managing a proper wet/dry cycle.

The way I've set mine up (for the single bucket I'm running now, and I'll do the same for the bigger setup) is where I can turn the pump on to water, but drain it out. Close one valve, open the other, let it drain out. Water changes are a breeze. You do still need to pH your water, but that's just part of hydro and really not anything to fret over.

Notice I mentioned recirculating. You can also run them in a DTW setup, but that seems a bit of a waste of water to me. I prefer recirculating, and will be running about a 25gal res. I cycle the water every 3-4 hours when the plants are small, before the roots get to the water pocket at the bottom of the bucket. After that, I cut back to every 6 hours. I run the pump long enough to not just top off the water pocket in the bucket, but to actually flush the old out a good bit as well so things stay mixed up.

Anyway, just a little food for thought. If I were setting it up from scratch again, I would probably skip RDWC and go straight to dutch buckets. I don't hate it or regret it, but you know how it is when something really clicks for your style and time.

 

[multiVortex]

Something else that escaped my mind with coco. If running coco, check out autopots. It was a toss up for me on the next auto run for either autopots or dutch buckets. Since I already had most of the stuff on hand to do the buckets, that's what ended up winning out. You can also do coco with DTW, or you could do a SOG with a flood table. The least "complicated" would be the autopots. They're really pretty slick.

 

[multiVortex]

Did get the water changed out on time today. Same song, different verse. Nothing out of the ordinary with the change. Initial pH was 5.6, added pH up to get it right where the meter was occasionally bouncing between 6.4 and 6.5. Also, as discussed previously, I upped the calmag a little. Last change was 1.5ml/gal, and bumped that up to 2.25ml/gal for this batch.

Pumped old out, new in, and added Z7 once it was about half full and I kicked the main pump back on.

Didn't grab any pics as I had to get on to some other chores, including a run to the hydro store for some pH up. I didn't make it back into the garden with enough time to get any pics before the lights went out. In fact I had the lights in the room when they went off, but not a big deal and it was only for about 5 minutes anyway.

Got my timers (all tents) set an hour ahead, so one hour less light and an extra hour of sleep.

 

[DrCannaCanadian]

Thanks @multiVortex , this was extremely helpful!

I've read through your thoughts and advice a few times now, and will start hydroponics in September. In the meantime, we will learn about Dutch Buckets and RDWC.

For the summer, we will grow out a heat resistant sativa CBD strain for the Mrs.

As for the autoflower, they look like they can get pretty big under normal conditions; but as an experiment to track yield under "12-12 from seed" and to get a bit of variety, we will pop an auto in the corner of the tent where we have unused space.

BTW, here's what we're planning for the auto:

How To Grow Cannabis From Seed Under 12-12 Lighting

 

[multiVortex]

Flower: Day 46 From Flip


Here we are with a continuation of.... the boring part. Flowers are building, of course. However compared to the near daily changes you can see in veg, etc, it can be more of the same and again for a bit until that final swell.

A few of the sugars on the Durban Poison (back right) got ate up, but I think we're still on the mend with the last increase in calmag.

Frost and sticky is coming along. Given pistils showed up about a week after flip, we're probably in the middle of week 6 of actual flower, more like day 39+/-.

Either way, that surprisingly puts the DP at about 15 days from the start of the breeders window at 55-65 days. That doesn't mean a lot, obviously, but is still a general guideline.

DP is rated at 8-9 weeks (about 55-65 days), the Strawberry Lemonade is 60-70 days, and the Blue Dream is 65-70 days.


The short of all that rambling is that we're 2-4 weeks away from a little bit of action, Jackson.


This also may mean that the DP, as she's getting kinda close, could also be doing a little cannibalization of herself. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[multiVortex]

Well, we're in the boring part of things. Nothing but that time-lapsed swell of the buds as we get more near the chop.

It seems the plants know it as well. They're wanting me to back off from 6g/gal of Mega Crop, so I will oblige with the upcoming water change. I will back it off to 5g/gal, and see how that goes. Right now they are drinking more than eating, and the pH is dropping (as expected), which the handy dandy chart reminds us that a falling water level, rising EC, and falling pH means lower the EC.

Well, alrighty then.

The "harvest watch" window opens up in 10 days, so it's also time to rig up and start little doses of UVB.

 

[multiVortex]

Day 108 - Flower Day 47 - Day 54 from Flip (Week 7, Day 5 of Flower)


Went ahead and completed the weekly water change tonight. Dropped the EC from 1.85 to 1.57 (1300ppm to 1100ppm on the 700 scale.)

The pH ended up at 6.3, and I bumped it with just a tick of UP and it settled in at 6.5 after an hour of mixing.

This res' recipe was 5g/gal of Mega Crop, 2ml/gal of calmag (remember, it's no nitrogen stuff), and for good measure on the pH department I took a gamble with 1ml/gal of ProTekt.

The silica did what I thought it would, and instead of 5.6, the pH was initially 6.3 after mixing up. Then the bump, and here we are.

Photo Dummmmmmmmpppppppp!!!!!!!

They're starting to close in on the end, and beginning to look a bit beat up. The Durban Poison and both Strawberry Lemonade are both prevalent with darkened pistils. The Blue Dream is just starting to turn. From the looks of things, I'm guessing the DP will be the first on the chopping block, with the SL's right behind her.

The Blue Dream is going to be bringing up the rear, but that's alright.


I haven't mentioned it in this thread, but I went ahead and picked up a Tom's Tumbler (TTT 1600, the baby model ) that will arrive here Monday. I'm looking forward to that. Going to save a lot of time, and that's becoming quite a precious commodity around these parts lately.

 

[Pennywise]

Getting close Bro

 

[multiVortex]

Yepper. The "window" opens up for the DP in about 10 days. I'll be hooking up my UVB strip after bit, and getting them their small dose twice daily from here on out.

If you missed it, I finished up drying the last auto and she's into cure. She ended up going 17.25oz.

 

[multiVortex]

So the UVB strips were hooked up and timer set Saturday.

Harvest watch starts Monday, and my guess (based solely on visual) is that the Durban Poison will be the first to finish. The Strawberry Lemonade should be right behind. Then bringing up the rear a week or two after will be the Blue Dream. She's just starting to turn her pistils, while the others turned a couple weeks ago. DP has also been eating herself up a good bit in the last couple weeks. The SL has also started, but the BD hasn't at all really. Kind of to be expected. Her estimated flower time was a week longer than the others, so nothing to freak out over. Simply part of running multiple strains, which is fine.

I'll be looking forward to the fall when the summer temps are gone, the AC is off for the season, and I can fire this setup back up. Plenty of time to figure out the next run participants before that. I may do something slightly off the beaten path. Found a few nice strains from Mass Medical, but not familiar with their genetics. Lots of good possibilities out there, just have to do the legwork on genetic quality.