MVortex's Perpetual Thread For A 4x4 Tent & RDWC

[multiVortex]

Biggest thing is I don’t want to suck in or even deal with those natural vents.

Don’t really want to suck 100F+, humid AF air into the house more than it normally would. Figure I can circ the 75F air from the grow space into other rooms, and let it all blow around while the much more efficient h ac does its thing.

I don’t really want to build walls or other stuff like that if I don’t really, really have to do so.

 

[bluter]

you'll be dumping not pulling. you'll be pulling air passively from the path of least resistance. likely from elsewhere in the house. unless you add an intake from outside.

the more humid spent air is what gets moved outside. otherwise you wind up dealing with the added load the grow area will create, and all that extra air with the added water vapor and heat it picks up in the grow space.

your biggest enemy is probably humidity. that's what holds the heat. you may just need a de-humidifier. they solve a lot of issues. we used drying bags like cattle operations.

 

[multiVortex]

your biggest enemy is probably humidity. that's what holds the heat. you may just need a de-humidifier. they solve a lot of issues. we used drying bags like cattle operations.

Have one. Set to 50%

the more humid spent air is what gets moved outside. otherwise you wind up dealing with the added load the grow area will create, and all that extra air with the added water vapor and heat it picks up in the grow space.

Yes. But if I push it outside, makeup air has to come from outside. Outside air is worse (more hot, more humid) than inside air.

you'll be dumping not pulling. you'll be pulling air passively from the path of least resistance. likely from elsewhere in the house. unless you add an intake from outside.

Right now, as it stands, I'm dumping the exhaust back into the garden area. Let me reinsert the image from the last page to better reference the layout:

I have a 16" stand fan that sits between the "Dev Lab" 4x3 and the shelves. Just about where the line on the orange arrow turns down/left towards the drying tent. It is set at a height of 4.5ft and just pulls air from that end. There is also a fan up closer to the ceiling, about the 6.5ft-7ft level pushing air back in that direction. Not really relevant to this, just saying.

What I would like to accomplish is to instead pull air from the grow space area, and dump it into another room (or rooms). That part is simple, and several ways to accomplish it.

Where things go south is what air replaces the air extracted, and where it comes from.

I do not want air to be sucked in through the natural air draws in the bottom right. Air here in the summer is significantly hotter, and more humid than the air coming from the tents.

Typically, yes. You push that air outside, and bring in outside air to replace it. I'd rather not. It would make the room hotter and more humid than it would have been.

So the fun part is what air replaces the volume extracted.


I want to try my very best to not get air coming in from outside through those natural ducts. If I just circulate the air through the house, mix it in with the rest of the house air, then the main HVAC can handle the load. It might run once or twice a day more than it would, and that's fine.

 

[bluter]

if it's down stairs it's pulling it from the stack. damn things they always do. check that first.

it's important to make sure the stack maintains positive pressure ( exhausting ) in the winter to avoid carbon monoxide issues. it's not a problem in warmer months when the furnace is off. the hvac is often the path of least resistance - unless you are bringing in sufficient air to feed from elsewhere.

i face this issue solid at the flower room. you're a bit further. hopefully not as bad.

 

[Stltoed]

Have one. Set to 50%





Yes. But if I push it outside, makeup air has to come from outside. Outside air is worse (more hot, more humid) than inside air.





Right now, as it stands, I'm dumping the exhaust back into the garden area. Let me reinsert the image from the last page to better reference the layout:

I have a 16" stand fan that sits between the "Dev Lab" 4x3 and the shelves. Just about where the line on the orange arrow turns down/left towards the drying tent. It is set at a height of 4.5ft and just pulls air from that end. There is also a fan up closer to the ceiling, about the 6.5ft-7ft level pushing air back in that direction. Not really relevant to this, just saying.

What I would like to accomplish is to instead pull air from the grow space area, and dump it into another room (or rooms). That part is simple, and several ways to accomplish it.

Where things go south is what air replaces the air extracted, and where it comes from.

I do not want air to be sucked in through the natural air draws in the bottom right. Air here in the summer is significantly hotter, and more humid than the air coming from the tents.

Typically, yes. You push that air outside, and bring in outside air to replace it. I'd rather not. It would make the room hotter and more humid than it would have been.

So the fun part is what air replaces the volume extracted.


I want to try my very best to not get air coming in from outside through those natural ducts. If I just circulate the air through the house, mix it in with the rest of the house air, then the main HVAC can handle the load. It might run once or twice a day more than it would, and that's fine.

Curious why the make up air has to come from outside if you exhausted you spent air outside. All sorts of air would come through the AC duct from upstairs. Unless your basement has its own system. If you only have one AC it might help keep smells downstairs. Just a thought...

 

[multiVortex]

if it's down stairs it's pulling it from the stack. damn things they always do. check that first.

it's important to make sure the stack maintains positive pressure ( exhausting ) in the winter to avoid carbon monoxide issues. it's not a problem in warmer months when the furnace is off. the hvac is often the path of least resistance - unless you are bringing in sufficient air to feed from elsewhere.

i face this issue solid at the flower room. you're a bit further. hopefully not as bad.

See, the diagram is just the basement area. Most of it anyway. All I want to do is circulate air through the basement. Suck it out of the area the grow is in, and dump it in another room. It shouldn't pull anything down any of the stacks.

Curious why the make up air has to come from outside if you exhausted you spent air outside. All sorts of air would come through the AC duct from upstairs. Unless your basement has its own system. If you only have one AC it might help keep smells downstairs. Just a thought...

Think of it on a smaller scale, like a grow tent. Air goes out, and is replaced with air from outside the tent. If not, it would create a vacuum and suck all the air out completely.

So if I go and start pushing 350cfm or whatever out of the house, it's going to suck air in at that same rate.

It's a single system, covers both up and down. Even if air comes (some) from upstairs, it's still going to pull air in from other places. I'm trying to NOT create any type of positive or negative pressure. Just circulate air from one space to another. If I create negative pressure, it's going to suck air right in through those natural ducts. They're passive ducts, and their general purpose is to keep the pressure in the house even. Keeps the vent stacks drafting up and out, O2 for the pilot lights on the water heater and furnace, so on and so forth. At least they are on the east side of the house, and in the shade by 12 - 1 o'clock.


I just need to figure out:

a) where to extract air to (active)
b) where to pull air from (passive)

I'm going to put a carbon filter at ceiling level, and duct that to a fan. Then duct it from the fan to somewhere. Question is, where?

If I pull air into the shop, it can then spread into the finished area next to it. There's 2 ceiling fans in there that are always on, and will mix the air up. When the AC is running, it will pull air into the returns in that space and then do what AC's do.

That's half the battle. The other part is a passive path from that side back into the grow side. I'm guessing a hole in the closet that's big enough should do the trick.

Now we're moving air around and circulating without pulling in any more than we would be right now. (Which is the goal.)

Air sucked out of the grow side and into the other side. Air then get pulled in from the other side to replace the air that's moved out.

It may also pull a tick from other places, but it should be very minimal.

Another possible passive path would be from the room with the ceiling fans, although that could perhaps not work as well. If air is (passively) pulled out from there, it may not be as well mixed in with the rest of the room air as it would be if it pulled through to the bedroom and into/through the closet.


If I could do that, that would be great. It would also be handy to be able to adjust the amount of air through the passive flow, so that it may pull more on other things than just there.


End game is just circulating air within the house, and letting the house AC do the work. No portable AC and it's extra expense (which would be way higher than letting the house take care of it), no nothing along that line.

 

[Stltoed]

See, the diagram is just the basement area. Most of it anyway. All I want to do is circulate air through the basement. Suck it out of the area the grow is in, and dump it in another room. It shouldn't pull anything down any of the stacks.





Think of it on a smaller scale, like a grow tent. Air goes out, and is replaced with air from outside the tent. If not, it would create a vacuum and suck all the air out completely.

So if I go and start pushing 350cfm or whatever out of the house, it's going to suck air in at that same rate.

It's a single system, covers both up and down. Even if air comes (some) from upstairs, it's still going to pull air in from other places. I'm trying to NOT create any type of positive or negative pressure. Just circulate air from one space to another. If I create negative pressure, it's going to suck air right in through those natural ducts. They're passive ducts, and their general purpose is to keep the pressure in the house even. Keeps the vent stacks drafting up and out, O2 for the pilot lights on the water heater and furnace, so on and so forth. At least they are on the east side of the house, and in the shade by 12 - 1 o'clock.


I just need to figure out:

a) where to extract air to (active)
b) where to pull air from (passive)

I'm going to put a carbon filter at ceiling level, and duct that to a fan. Then duct it from the fan to somewhere. Question is, where?

If I pull air into the shop, it can then spread into the finished area next to it. There's 2 ceiling fans in there that are always on, and will mix the air up. When the AC is running, it will pull air into the returns in that space and then do what AC's do.

That's half the battle. The other part is a passive path from that side back into the grow side. I'm guessing a hole in the closet that's big enough should do the trick.

Now we're moving air around and circulating without pulling in any more than we would be right now. (Which is the goal.)

Air sucked out of the grow side and into the other side. Air then get pulled in from the other side to replace the air that's moved out.

It may also pull a tick from other places, but it should be very minimal.

Another possible passive path would be from the room with the ceiling fans, although that could perhaps not work as well. If air is (passively) pulled out from there, it may not be as well mixed in with the rest of the room air as it would be if it pulled through to the bedroom and into/through the closet.


If I could do that, that would be great. It would also be handy to be able to adjust the amount of air through the passive flow, so that it may pull more on other things than just there.


End game is just circulating air within the house, and letting the house AC do the work. No portable AC and it's extra expense (which would be way higher than letting the house take care of it), no nothing along that line.

Sounds like you kinda know what you need to do.

 

[multiVortex]

I have the general concept, air circulation, but how best to accomplish that without drawing in additional outside air is the trick.

 

[Stltoed]

I have the general concept, air circulation, but how best to accomplish that without drawing in additional outside air is the trick.

Gotcha. You'll get there!

 

[multiVortex]

Ding ding ding! Ding ding ding! Ding ding ding!

We have a winner in the how do I exhaust my room without triggering that natural draw! How, you ask?


I'll be exhausting out of one, and sealing the other. Yes, that will cause air to get sucked into the house, but it will come from the rest of the house first, and get filled via air gaps. The HVAC should handle the rest and keep it mixed up enough, I hope.


Grabbed a couple 25' runs of flexible ducting, and will be getting that squared away this weekend most likely (at some point.)


Power is going to be fun, but I think I got a handle on it. There aren't any outlets on that end, and closest one is about midway. between. I think I can split the run, put the fan in the middle, and call it good. I'll still dump to the main room from the tents, but suck out from the ceiling of that area where the warmer air is.

 

[Stltoed]

Ding ding ding! Ding ding ding! Ding ding ding!

We have a winner in the how do I exhaust my room without triggering that natural draw! How, you ask?


I'll be exhausting out of one, and sealing the other. Yes, that will cause air to get sucked into the house, but it will come from the rest of the house first, and get filled via air gaps. The HVAC should handle the rest and keep it mixed up enough, I hope.


Grabbed a couple 25' runs of flexible ducting, and will be getting that squared away this weekend most likely (at some point.)


Power is going to be fun, but I think I got a handle on it. There aren't any outlets on that end, and closest one is about midway. between. I think I can split the run, put the fan in the middle, and call it good. I'll still dump to the main room from the tents, but suck out from the ceiling of that area where the warmer air is.

Will you run the exhaust fan all the time?

 

[multiVortex]

Yes, I will.

I'm going to continue dumping scrubbed air from the tents into the room. I'm going to hang a carbon filter from the ceiling, make a run of ducting, add the fan, and then run ducting to the upper fresh air duct. With the other one sealed up, that should get air drawn in through various places in the rest of the house. A crack here, gap there, etc. At that point the hvac should handle mixing up the rest. It might make it run a hair more, but that's alright. It beats the alternatives.

My guess is most of the air will be replaced by being drawn in through the hvac ducts, blah blah. I'll have to do my best to make that the case.

 

[multiVortex]

Well we’re hooked up and running. Got a carbon filter hung in a spot central to the garden space, ducting from that over to the fan, and from the fan there is duct to one of the natural vents. We’ll see what happens. I still have to seal the other one up a bit, but will do that in the morning. Figure if it's going to draw in outside air, it’s going to be cool enough tonight to let it ride.

Plus I was running out of time on the rdwc tent before the lights went out.

Need to do a smoke test and watch where air is moving around, but I think we’ll be alright.

Will be trimming the strawberry lemonade and durban poison tomorrow afternoon once I do a water change on the res for the Lab tent.

Blue Dream may come down this weekend, she was getting close the other day.

 

[Pennywise]

Looks like a solid air mover.

 

[bluter]

I still have to seal the other one up a bit, but will do that in the morning. Figure if it's going to draw in outside air, it’s going to be cool enough tonight to let it ride.

does it have a damper ? might be something on it you can close down.

 

[multiVortex]

Looks like a solid air mover.

Should be alright. Just hav a 6” exhausting the room, but better than nothing

does it have a damper ? might be something on it you can close down.

Nope. Nothing like that.

 

[bluter]

Nope. Nothing like that.

it might .... not all consist of a door, or have a crank.

often there are a series of vanes on the outside , they move individually by hand, one by one to open / close. most folk don't know they do that. contractors install them open and leave them that way as it's best / easiest for them. a lot of home owners are just not aware.

cheap ones are just like a dryer vent. i know you're after a better solution.

my pops worked with piles of building supplies over the years, and i picked a bunch up.

 

[multiVortex]

it might .... not all consist of a door, or have a crank.

often there are a series of vanes on the outside , they move individually by hand, one by one to open / close. most folk don't know they do that. contractors install them open and leave them that way as it's best / easiest for them. a lot of home owners are just not aware.

cheap ones are just like a dryer vent. i know you're after a better solution.

my pops worked with piles of building supplies over the years, and i picked a bunch up.

Nah, these are open all the way through. There is a grate just inside the opening to keep birds out though.

I added some window screen and hooked on up.
I thought they were 8”, but by some stroke of luck (which is a miracle in itself this week it seems) they’re 6”. Hooked right on with no problem.

Took a bubble envelope from an amazon delivery, little painters tape, and sealed up the other one.

It hit 89F today. A one day spike, but decent enough test. Was 70 yesterday, and supposed to be 65-70 for the next week or so.

I had to leave this morning and just getting back, but without the AC on for the house (no way am I turning it on for just one day, lol) the ambient room temp was 77. Not too shabby all things considered.

 

[multiVortex]

Durban has been bucked down and tumbled. Entire time spent (in two chunks) for just this plant was about 2.5-3 hours from cut to cure bucket. Chop was maybe 30 minutes to cut and hang, about an hour and a half, then 30 to 40 minutes to inspect and move into the bucket for curing.

I didn't grab pics, but I will when I do the Strawberry Lemonade this evening.


I gotta say, this tom's tumbler worked fecking excellent. I wanted to give it as untrimmed as possible and see how it handled it all. Knowing full well I may have to snip a bunch manually if there were issues. (Narrator Morgan Freeman: There weren't.)


Out of the mess I fed it, it cleaned up 99% of everything. The only things I found were:

1) Smallest nugs (popcorn size, maybe a hair bigger but not much) were cleaned, but if something was going to get missed, it would be on something this size. Just big enough they didn't fall through with the trim, but not quite a full bowl size. Most likely because of their weight, and unless something a little bigger hit it in the right spot, it might miss a crow foot or something. Meh, I'm not overly concerned with that much.

2) Even when everything is dried as specified, there will still be those random .05% of leaves that just weren't quite "crispy" yet. Easy to pick off, but when you have a bucket volume of buds it can take a few minutes to sort and inspect it all.


Those sound like major issues, but really they aren't. We're talking about the above 2 points consisting of less than 1% of the flowers. A plant like this would have taken me at least a full hard day to wet trim (it was pretty leafy) by hand, not to include chopping and bucking down once dry, etc.

That Super Lemon Haze from the last Lab grow took me 2 days to wet trim by hand, so I would say this is definitely a roaring success thus far.



Now for the 99% part of the harvest.

This worked out so damn good. Seriously! It's gentle enough that you're not losing flower like you would with a "cutter" type of trimmer. Meaning that it's not shaving off bud. Win. You do get some kief, but that's mostly from the leaves. The trim comes out pretty much ready to go into the decarb process. Another win. Bag it up and go.

If you're not familiar with how this thing works, here's a vary simple, basic big picture explanation.

First, you chop and hang your branches to dry, taking off the big main fans. (Easiest if you just take them all off a day or two before you want to chop. Leaving all the sugar leaves/mini-fans from the flowers.)

Hang to dry, and wait until all the leaves are dried and brittle. This is a big step, and probably the most important of all. You have to know your drying environment, and also be sure to cut as similar of size branches as possible. It won't be perfect, but you don't want to cut one entire main branch off the plant, and then take side branches individually in other places. (If that makes sense.) Overall, try to hang as similar sized as you can. This helps it all dry as evenly as possible and you don't end up with some over dry, some under dry, and some just right.

The directions recommend hanging the entire plant. Cut at the base and hang it up. Probably works fine, but unless you have the space for it (I sure don't) then you're down to selectively cutting as similar size of branch as you can.

Then you wait.

Mine dried 2 full weeks, and was just right. There may be a couple tiny sticks that were a tick over dry, but nothing serious. (A couple branches just weren't much there, but whatev.)

Once dry, you buck it down and toss it in the tumbler. This is a hand crank model (which honestly wasn't bad at all) and there is a sweet spot to the rotation speed from what I found. Too slow and there isn't enough to crumble most leaves. Too fast and you get that "round up" effect. You remember those rides at the fair/amusement park? The one that spins, you stick to the side, and it raises up to like a 45* angle? You know the concept... centrifugal force, physics, gravity, blah blah blah. Not to mention it will send what manages to crumble off (which isn't much when too fast) flying in whatever direction and make a mess.

I also found that switching directions from time to time seemed to help mix it up a little more so that it wasn't always the same buds hitting each other. It probably mixes itself just fine, so maybe it was just perspective and not necessarily a necessary move.

I cranked on it for about 10 minutes, maybe a couple more. Elapsed time of about 15 minutes as I did stop and switch arms/direction a few times.

The end result? Well, if you can't tell yet, I was impressed. Damn impressed. Even better than my best case scenario of hope, really. Met and exceeded my expectations.

Product comes out looking very, very nice.

The real key is making sure it's dry, and the leaves are crispy crunchy. This is crucial. If they aren't, they (obviously) won't come off. As the gentle tumbling action just mixes your buds around and in doing so those crunchy leaves just crumble right off.

All in all, first run of it is a damn fine success. Great balance between cost, effort, and result. Less force than a trimbag, significantly less cost (and maintenance, too!) than an electric dry or wet "shaver" type trimmer, and excellently trimmed product in the end.

Gotta give a huge thumbs up to this. It was a great purchase and is an excellent tool.


I need to give it a few more runs to confirm, but I would be surprised if my current opinion were to lower any at all.



Oh, and for the tally, the DP pulled in 11 zips of dried and trimmed flower, and just over 6 zips of larf/trim. More than I thought she would run (she looked about an 8zip haul), so that's good. If the rest prove to be similar, I'll be quite content as that puts us in the 2.5lb range for the run.

 

[Pennywise]

Which make and model of trimmer did you get?