- Thread starter
- #541
I think I will let the first two roll until Wednesday, and the third another week. If she’s still the same spot, she’s done and that’s just that.
MVortex's Perpetual Thread For A 4x4 Tent & RDWC
- Thread starter multiVortex
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #542
So I wasn't going to post this textual update, but in the spirit of full transparency and hopefully someone else can avoid this, I'm going to tell all. 
I fucked up. Bad.
First let me give a brief (empty) refresher of what I'm working with, so maybe it makes more sense.
With a full load of plants, when they're all supported/scrogged/whatever, it's a little bit of a challenge to try and get into each bucket to fully drain them. (Something that will get changed during the upcoming down time over the summer for this rig.)
Once they started getting the scrog put to them, that was pretty much the end of easily getting into each bucket. I started using the front left bucket (nearest the res) to get the rest of the water out as best possible. The residual isn't much, maybe 3 or 4 gallons total once the water level drops below the interconnecting pipes. There's about an inch left in the bottom of the other 3 buckets. Not perfect, but close enough for all intents and purposes.
The first part of the drain is through the res. Shut the pump off, drain (this also drains the other buckets to an extent), and get all I can. Suck the couple cups left in the res that the pump can't get with a shop vac.
Then the process has been to gently, slowly lift the lid just enough to twist it and make a hole big enough to get the little pump in and finish the drain. I leave it cracked as I fill, checking now and then (I can tell when it's close to full from the float valve) until it's at the full mark. It gets it pretty close, and if there is a slight discrepancy then that's alright as the top-off can add the 1/4-1/2 gal to get it just right. I also button up the bottom foot or so of the tent, and semi close the top so air from the tent doesn't leak as much.
Then it's twist the lid back, button up, top off the top-off res (I'll fill it 1/3 with nute mix, then finish filling with plain water. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
So what happened?
Well, it's all fun and games until you fuck up and don't...
twist the lid back on and leave a crack (about 1" or so) in the lid of the bucket in the tent.
Yep, that's right. I left the bucket open for a damn week.
Thankfully there appears to have been a saving grace of nothing happening as a result of that. (You know what I mean, I'm not saying the word, but you know.)
The end result is that there appears to be nothing worse for wear, other than my head. Can't believe I overlooked that part. I mean, I can to a small extent as with the netting and canopy and all that, once I zip up the bottom a little, it isn't a obvious. Get a little distracted, and poof.
This won't be a problem when I fire it back up, as the need to open a bucket in the tent to drain won't be necessary any longer. While I haven't figured out 100% how, I have several ideas floating though.
Lesson learned.
I fucked up. Bad.
First let me give a brief (empty) refresher of what I'm working with, so maybe it makes more sense.
With a full load of plants, when they're all supported/scrogged/whatever, it's a little bit of a challenge to try and get into each bucket to fully drain them. (Something that will get changed during the upcoming down time over the summer for this rig.)
Once they started getting the scrog put to them, that was pretty much the end of easily getting into each bucket. I started using the front left bucket (nearest the res) to get the rest of the water out as best possible. The residual isn't much, maybe 3 or 4 gallons total once the water level drops below the interconnecting pipes. There's about an inch left in the bottom of the other 3 buckets. Not perfect, but close enough for all intents and purposes.
The first part of the drain is through the res. Shut the pump off, drain (this also drains the other buckets to an extent), and get all I can. Suck the couple cups left in the res that the pump can't get with a shop vac.
Then the process has been to gently, slowly lift the lid just enough to twist it and make a hole big enough to get the little pump in and finish the drain. I leave it cracked as I fill, checking now and then (I can tell when it's close to full from the float valve) until it's at the full mark. It gets it pretty close, and if there is a slight discrepancy then that's alright as the top-off can add the 1/4-1/2 gal to get it just right. I also button up the bottom foot or so of the tent, and semi close the top so air from the tent doesn't leak as much.
Then it's twist the lid back, button up, top off the top-off res (I'll fill it 1/3 with nute mix, then finish filling with plain water. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
So what happened?
Well, it's all fun and games until you fuck up and don't...
twist the lid back on and leave a crack (about 1" or so) in the lid of the bucket in the tent.
Yep, that's right. I left the bucket open for a damn week.
Thankfully there appears to have been a saving grace of nothing happening as a result of that. (You know what I mean, I'm not saying the word, but you know.)
The end result is that there appears to be nothing worse for wear, other than my head. Can't believe I overlooked that part. I mean, I can to a small extent as with the netting and canopy and all that, once I zip up the bottom a little, it isn't a obvious. Get a little distracted, and poof.
This won't be a problem when I fire it back up, as the need to open a bucket in the tent to drain won't be necessary any longer. While I haven't figured out 100% how, I have several ideas floating though.
Lesson learned.
Wait so I’m confused. What could the bucket lid being cracked cause?
- Thread starter
- #544
Light leak. Light on the roots, water, etc. It can make bad, bad things happen.
I had a light leak (although it wasn't initially apparent) back when I first fired this thing up, and to correct the issue was not a good time.
If you want to see what can happen, you can check it out from this post on. It wasn't pretty, and the house reeked of bleach for a couple days, and I could taste it for another week. Nightmare fuel.
I had a light leak (although it wasn't initially apparent) back when I first fired this thing up, and to correct the issue was not a good time.
If you want to see what can happen, you can check it out from this post on. It wasn't pretty, and the house reeked of bleach for a couple days, and I could taste it for another week. Nightmare fuel.
Light on the roots is bad ju ju big time. At least you got lucky.
Ohhh I didn’t even think about the light. Glad all is still on track
- Thread starter
- #547
Lucky indeed. Counting the blessings. I’m not sure how many, I kept losing count and having to start over.
Seriously though, I’m not sure how it was possible. I’m guessing the Z7 is at least partially responsible. Also having the canopy scrogged out makes it dense and leaves little direct light below. Some, sure, but not like the light was shining right in. Throw in good luck and fortune, and well, Inthink we've solved it to some degree at least.
Another good spot would be that 3/4 of it will be getting chopped within days, and the last bit could be if it really had to be.
But thankfully no signs of a problem from that little escapade.
Seriously though, I’m not sure how it was possible. I’m guessing the Z7 is at least partially responsible. Also having the canopy scrogged out makes it dense and leaves little direct light below. Some, sure, but not like the light was shining right in. Throw in good luck and fortune, and well, Inthink we've solved it to some degree at least.
Another good spot would be that 3/4 of it will be getting chopped within days, and the last bit could be if it really had to be.
But thankfully no signs of a problem from that little escapade.
- Thread starter
- #548
So in the interest of boredom, or maybe slacking off a bit, I thought I would go over a couple of the ideas I have for upgrades during the downtime of the hydro tent.
In no particular order...
Primary Pump
Currently this is a 400gph pump, running in-line. I would like to bump this up to either 600gph or 800gph. With a 50gal capacity (currently) that would move it from an 8x/per hour turnover to 12x or 16x. This would also increase the volume of water from the "waterfall" in each bucket, which means even more O2 going around. There was enough this go around, but a little more would be nice. Had I used 1/2" plumbing instead of 3/4", it would have had a little more force behind it. Oh well, no big deal.
I haven't made up my mind on this one yet, it's still under consideration. This may change or be scrapped depending on other decisions.
Bucket Height
This is a side effect of the "hump" between the inner bucket and the res, and coming up and over to get in/out of the duct port in the tent. I'd thought about this previously, but wanted to give it a go first. What I've found is that it is a bit of hassle, but nothing serious. Simply an area that isn't bad, but could be better.
If I were to raise the buckets 6", including the reservoir, then I could eliminate the hump all together. I could then cut a new 3" piece of PVC, and have a straight connection.
What the hump does is slow down the flow of water, as well as make it a bit more difficult to fully drain the buckets in the tent without opening them up each time.
Drain Line(s)
What I would like to do is put a drain line from each bucket into a main line, then out the tent. The reservoir could also join the main line, drain all at once, and poof.
This could be accomplished in a few ways. A bulkhead through the bottom of each bucket, a line from the bottom of the bucket up and out through the top of the side, etc. Each presents its own unique challenges to be mindful of.
If I were to go up and out, I could use 3/4" pipe and use the current holes for the supply line. This would allow me to reconfigure the supply line and gauge it down to 1/2". I would then make new holes for those line.
This would let me keep the pump the same, and move to a spray bar type exit point inside each bucket. More O2 isn't a bad thing, although that would increase the dB level a bit and may also increase urination frequency when tending to the garden.
Supply Line
I've also taken under consideration for the supply line. Right now it's 3/4", which is fine. I've thought about reducing it to 1/2", which would give the flow a little more oomph hitting the water in the bucket. End result, more O2.
If I were to do this, I may also go to a spray bar type setup, where I would plug the end of the pipe and have 6-8 holes drilled for the water to shoot out. More reaction from the individual streams hitting the water, more O2.
Lighting
Let me start off with saying that I do like this light (Growers Choice ROI-E680) overall. I'm not fond that I had an issue, and cannot use the light exactly as intended. Instead I need to cut the power to the light itself instead of the controller just fully dimming the fixture. Plus with the controller on occasion deciding to now wake up from its sleep cycle, I'm just not as confident as I should be with these.
Whether or not I can be refunded at this point, I'm not sure. I doubt it. However (without rehashing it all again) I certainly can get a new one which is supposed to have the glow issue resolved.
That still leaves me with the controller issue. I like the more precise dimming control with the controller, as well as the ease of use for setting the light schedule. (The fixture itself has a dimmer, but it's only 0/40/60/80/100 percent options.) I'm also a fan of the ability to specify a sunrise/set option. I have it set for 30 minutes, and it seems to divide the set intensity of the fixture by that time, and increase/decrease each minute by that number. (So 100% on, for a 30 minute cycle, will adjust the light up/down by about 3%-4% per minute.)
I'm not sure and have to think about this a bit. If the fixture is replaced, that hopefully takes that issue out of play. (If it doesn't, I'm going to be way pissed off.) Still leaves the controller, and I'm not sure where my confidence level is on that. I've had to double check lights on/off every day, and I shouldn't have to worry about doing that. It also means that time away is a gamble right now. I guess I could just not use the sunrise/set option, then if I need to be away I can just put the fixture on its own timer and disconnect the controller.
Why would I do that though? Why should I have to even think of doing so? I shouldn't. Which means my confidence isn't as high as it should be in the product.
It's because of this that I've taken into consideration that if a replacement is my only option, I would move it to a backup role and get new lighting for that tent. Of course that gives me 2 spare lights, but it is what it is.
Upgrade Top Off Tank
Considering upgrading the top off res from 10gal to 17gal. Kind of a no-brainer on this one. Instead of filling up the top off a couple three times a week, it would lessen the frequency. Could most likely top if off after 2 days and make it through the rest of the week.
Totes are cheap, all things considered, so a $10 fix isn't going to be a burden.
Oscillating Fans
I went from the USB powered ones to the vivosun ones designed to clip on your tent pole. They're ok, even though I could run 5 or 6 of the USB ones for the power of one of these. Even with a fairly low wattage on these (somewhere just under 30w IIRC) when you can save a watt you should if possible.
I would need 3 or 4 of the usb ones to cover the same space (they're a bit limited in how far they turn), but that isn't the real concern I have. So far I have had 6 of these fans fail, all in the same manner, and all didn't last more than a few days from initial poweup. What's failing is the internal power connection, and when the fan oscillates it gets to the end of the turn and cuts out. Sometimes it's turning fast enough that it has enough momentum to swing back the other way just enough to trip the power back on, but eventually it won't and ends up dead in the water. An easy fix for this would be just a hair longer wire run internally, as well as ensuring the connection is solid. Right now it seems that the internal wire length is just a hair short, and the oscillation eventually stresses it enough that it cuts out when it gets close to the end of the swing.
To their credit, they haven't blinked and been happy to replace them. However we're at another one of those confidence things again, and my trust in them does not go very far at this point. When they work they are fine, and the real selling point is the clip. However I think I may go another route when I have the next failure. The 6 running now seem to be doing well, but when I check that the lights came on I also make sure the fans are still turning as expected.
Something I've thought about is using stationary fans, and hooking them up to a wave maker. WTF is that, you ask? It's a timer controlled power strip designed for aquariums. Specifically reef tanks. You plug your powerheads into it, set it up, and it will turn them on in sequence to mimic tidal currents.
Using one for fans in a grow would turn on a fan, then wind it down and turn on another one, etc. So out of say, 3 or 4 fans you can create a round-robin of airflow in different directions.
What I most likely will do is what I already have in my backup gear. It's one of those little holmes blizzard fans, that is hooked to an iPhone/iPad holder that is designed to attach to a music/microphone stand. I can't take credit for the idea, I found it here in a thread somewhere, but I can say that it works really well.
Which direction I head in I am unsure. But I would like to have a contingency plan in place so that when I have another one fail, and then use the backup, I know what I want to go with.
Nutrients
This is more of an outside thought than anything. I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting with Mega Crop, and I'm also extremely pleased with the price. ($20/grow for a 50gal rig with weekly changes is insane.
)
However, some may have heard me mention my one little gripe with it: root staining. Outside of straight water hydro, it isn't really an issue. But when you need to check your roots for issues, and they're a light tan/brown from the water, it can make spotting an issue as early as possible almost unlikely.
While I most likely won't make a change, if I were I think I'd look at Jack's. I need to do some more digging on their micro nutes though, as it may not have all I've come accustomed to with MC. Out of all the things I'm thinking over, this one is probably the least likely. Although it still makes for an attractive price at around $30/grow, there is also the old adage about if it's not broke, don't fix it.
So there's the list so far. What comes of it, I'm not sure. However some combination of things will end up happening. I suppose if I go with drain lines, I don't really need to raise the buckets or any of that mess. I also wouldn't necessarily need a pump upgrade, either. So who knows where things end up, but definitely something will be happening to improve upon what's going on now.
In no particular order...
Primary Pump
Currently this is a 400gph pump, running in-line. I would like to bump this up to either 600gph or 800gph. With a 50gal capacity (currently) that would move it from an 8x/per hour turnover to 12x or 16x. This would also increase the volume of water from the "waterfall" in each bucket, which means even more O2 going around. There was enough this go around, but a little more would be nice. Had I used 1/2" plumbing instead of 3/4", it would have had a little more force behind it. Oh well, no big deal.
I haven't made up my mind on this one yet, it's still under consideration. This may change or be scrapped depending on other decisions.
Bucket Height
This is a side effect of the "hump" between the inner bucket and the res, and coming up and over to get in/out of the duct port in the tent. I'd thought about this previously, but wanted to give it a go first. What I've found is that it is a bit of hassle, but nothing serious. Simply an area that isn't bad, but could be better.
If I were to raise the buckets 6", including the reservoir, then I could eliminate the hump all together. I could then cut a new 3" piece of PVC, and have a straight connection.
What the hump does is slow down the flow of water, as well as make it a bit more difficult to fully drain the buckets in the tent without opening them up each time.
Drain Line(s)
What I would like to do is put a drain line from each bucket into a main line, then out the tent. The reservoir could also join the main line, drain all at once, and poof.
This could be accomplished in a few ways. A bulkhead through the bottom of each bucket, a line from the bottom of the bucket up and out through the top of the side, etc. Each presents its own unique challenges to be mindful of.
If I were to go up and out, I could use 3/4" pipe and use the current holes for the supply line. This would allow me to reconfigure the supply line and gauge it down to 1/2". I would then make new holes for those line.
This would let me keep the pump the same, and move to a spray bar type exit point inside each bucket. More O2 isn't a bad thing, although that would increase the dB level a bit and may also increase urination frequency when tending to the garden.
Supply Line
I've also taken under consideration for the supply line. Right now it's 3/4", which is fine. I've thought about reducing it to 1/2", which would give the flow a little more oomph hitting the water in the bucket. End result, more O2.
If I were to do this, I may also go to a spray bar type setup, where I would plug the end of the pipe and have 6-8 holes drilled for the water to shoot out. More reaction from the individual streams hitting the water, more O2.
Lighting
Let me start off with saying that I do like this light (Growers Choice ROI-E680) overall. I'm not fond that I had an issue, and cannot use the light exactly as intended. Instead I need to cut the power to the light itself instead of the controller just fully dimming the fixture. Plus with the controller on occasion deciding to now wake up from its sleep cycle, I'm just not as confident as I should be with these.
Whether or not I can be refunded at this point, I'm not sure. I doubt it. However (without rehashing it all again) I certainly can get a new one which is supposed to have the glow issue resolved.
That still leaves me with the controller issue. I like the more precise dimming control with the controller, as well as the ease of use for setting the light schedule. (The fixture itself has a dimmer, but it's only 0/40/60/80/100 percent options.) I'm also a fan of the ability to specify a sunrise/set option. I have it set for 30 minutes, and it seems to divide the set intensity of the fixture by that time, and increase/decrease each minute by that number. (So 100% on, for a 30 minute cycle, will adjust the light up/down by about 3%-4% per minute.)
I'm not sure and have to think about this a bit. If the fixture is replaced, that hopefully takes that issue out of play. (If it doesn't, I'm going to be way pissed off.) Still leaves the controller, and I'm not sure where my confidence level is on that. I've had to double check lights on/off every day, and I shouldn't have to worry about doing that. It also means that time away is a gamble right now. I guess I could just not use the sunrise/set option, then if I need to be away I can just put the fixture on its own timer and disconnect the controller.
Why would I do that though? Why should I have to even think of doing so? I shouldn't. Which means my confidence isn't as high as it should be in the product.
It's because of this that I've taken into consideration that if a replacement is my only option, I would move it to a backup role and get new lighting for that tent. Of course that gives me 2 spare lights, but it is what it is.
Upgrade Top Off Tank
Considering upgrading the top off res from 10gal to 17gal. Kind of a no-brainer on this one. Instead of filling up the top off a couple three times a week, it would lessen the frequency. Could most likely top if off after 2 days and make it through the rest of the week.
Totes are cheap, all things considered, so a $10 fix isn't going to be a burden.
Oscillating Fans
I went from the USB powered ones to the vivosun ones designed to clip on your tent pole. They're ok, even though I could run 5 or 6 of the USB ones for the power of one of these. Even with a fairly low wattage on these (somewhere just under 30w IIRC) when you can save a watt you should if possible.
I would need 3 or 4 of the usb ones to cover the same space (they're a bit limited in how far they turn), but that isn't the real concern I have. So far I have had 6 of these fans fail, all in the same manner, and all didn't last more than a few days from initial poweup. What's failing is the internal power connection, and when the fan oscillates it gets to the end of the turn and cuts out. Sometimes it's turning fast enough that it has enough momentum to swing back the other way just enough to trip the power back on, but eventually it won't and ends up dead in the water. An easy fix for this would be just a hair longer wire run internally, as well as ensuring the connection is solid. Right now it seems that the internal wire length is just a hair short, and the oscillation eventually stresses it enough that it cuts out when it gets close to the end of the swing.
To their credit, they haven't blinked and been happy to replace them. However we're at another one of those confidence things again, and my trust in them does not go very far at this point. When they work they are fine, and the real selling point is the clip. However I think I may go another route when I have the next failure. The 6 running now seem to be doing well, but when I check that the lights came on I also make sure the fans are still turning as expected.
Something I've thought about is using stationary fans, and hooking them up to a wave maker. WTF is that, you ask? It's a timer controlled power strip designed for aquariums. Specifically reef tanks. You plug your powerheads into it, set it up, and it will turn them on in sequence to mimic tidal currents.
Using one for fans in a grow would turn on a fan, then wind it down and turn on another one, etc. So out of say, 3 or 4 fans you can create a round-robin of airflow in different directions.
What I most likely will do is what I already have in my backup gear. It's one of those little holmes blizzard fans, that is hooked to an iPhone/iPad holder that is designed to attach to a music/microphone stand. I can't take credit for the idea, I found it here in a thread somewhere, but I can say that it works really well.
Which direction I head in I am unsure. But I would like to have a contingency plan in place so that when I have another one fail, and then use the backup, I know what I want to go with.
Nutrients
This is more of an outside thought than anything. I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting with Mega Crop, and I'm also extremely pleased with the price. ($20/grow for a 50gal rig with weekly changes is insane.
)However, some may have heard me mention my one little gripe with it: root staining. Outside of straight water hydro, it isn't really an issue. But when you need to check your roots for issues, and they're a light tan/brown from the water, it can make spotting an issue as early as possible almost unlikely.
While I most likely won't make a change, if I were I think I'd look at Jack's. I need to do some more digging on their micro nutes though, as it may not have all I've come accustomed to with MC. Out of all the things I'm thinking over, this one is probably the least likely. Although it still makes for an attractive price at around $30/grow, there is also the old adage about if it's not broke, don't fix it.
So there's the list so far. What comes of it, I'm not sure. However some combination of things will end up happening. I suppose if I go with drain lines, I don't really need to raise the buckets or any of that mess. I also wouldn't necessarily need a pump upgrade, either. So who knows where things end up, but definitely something will be happening to improve upon what's going on now.
So in the interest of boredom, or maybe slacking off a bit, I thought I would go over a couple of the ideas I have for upgrades during the downtime of the hydro tent.
Hey Vortex, interesting ramble. Good thoughts. My comments are in red.
In no particular order...
Primary Pump
Currently this is a 400gph pump, running in-line. I would like to bump this up to either 600gph or 800gph. With a 50gal capacity (currently) that would move it from an 8x/per hour turnover to 12x or 16x. This would also increase the volume of water from the "waterfall" in each bucket, which means even more O2 going around. There was enough this go around, but a little more would be nice. Had I used 1/2" plumbing instead of 3/4", it would have had a little more force behind it. Oh well, no big deal.
I haven't made up my mind on this one yet, it's still under consideration. This may change or be scrapped depending on other decisions.
By far the most effective way to add oxygen to your solution is airstones and a hefty air pump in the reservoir. I use a pump with a double output in each of mine. The spraying and waterfall effect isn't as effective as zillions of small bubbles, the smaller and more numerous the better so select your airstones for that.
Bucket Height
This is a side effect of the "hump" between the inner bucket and the res, and coming up and over to get in/out of the duct port in the tent. I'd thought about this previously, but wanted to give it a go first. What I've found is that it is a bit of hassle, but nothing serious. Simply an area that isn't bad, but could be better.
If I were to raise the buckets 6", including the reservoir, then I could eliminate the hump all together. I could then cut a new 3" piece of PVC, and have a straight connection.
What the hump does is slow down the flow of water, as well as make it a bit more difficult to fully drain the buckets in the tent without opening them up each time.
If you don't have a level surface for all your connective tubing it's surprising how much a small elevation change can affect water flow. Reduces the efficiency of your pump too. Sounds like raising your buckets/res and flattening everything out will help you, that is, if you have the room to give on the top side.
Drain Line(s)
What I would like to do is put a drain line from each bucket into a main line, then out the tent. The reservoir could also join the main line, drain all at once, and poof.
This could be accomplished in a few ways. A bulkhead through the bottom of each bucket, a line from the bottom of the bucket up and out through the top of the side, etc. Each presents its own unique challenges to be mindful of.
If I were to go up and out, I could use 3/4" pipe and use the current holes for the supply line. This would allow me to reconfigure the supply line and gauge it down to 1/2". I would then make new holes for those line.
This would let me keep the pump the same, and move to a spray bar type exit point inside each bucket. More O2 isn't a bad thing, although that would increase the dB level a bit and may also increase urination frequency when tending to the garden.
Cutting holes for lines that run below the water level is a tricky business that can often result in pesky leaks. The production drills, quality of cuts and grommets that manufacturers use add up to a reliable seal but I have found it's hard to do it on my own. I recommend a lot of the best silicone caulk unless you want to use a lot of paper towels, forever.
Supply Line
I've also taken under consideration for the supply line. Right now it's 3/4", which is fine. I've thought about reducing it to 1/2", which would give the flow a little more oomph hitting the water in the bucket. End result, more O2.
If I were to do this, I may also go to a spray bar type setup, where I would plug the end of the pipe and have 6-8 holes drilled for the water to shoot out. More reaction from the individual streams hitting the water, more O2.
Again, the only really effective way to oxygenate is small-bubble airstones in the main res or in each bucket in DWC. That's a reason I like flood and drain better than DWC because it allows the roots to achieve maximum oxygenation by leaving them exposed to air much of the time, plus you only need one air pump instead of one per bucket.
Also keep in mind if you up the size of your pump, or decrease the diameter of your lines, the pressure will increase and that raises the chance of leaks, and increases the workload on the pump. The best systems move plenty of fluid but don't create much system pressure so try to design with that in mind. Pressure free is the way to be.
Lighting
Let me start off with saying that I do like this light (Growers Choice ROI-E680) overall. I'm not fond that I had an issue, and cannot use the light exactly as intended. Instead I need to cut the power to the light itself instead of the controller just fully dimming the fixture. Plus with the controller on occasion deciding to now wake up from its sleep cycle, I'm just not as confident as I should be with these.
Whether or not I can be refunded at this point, I'm not sure. I doubt it. However (without rehashing it all again) I certainly can get a new one which is supposed to have the glow issue resolved.
That still leaves me with the controller issue. I like the more precise dimming control with the controller, as well as the ease of use for setting the light schedule. (The fixture itself has a dimmer, but it's only 0/40/60/80/100 percent options.) I'm also a fan of the ability to specify a sunrise/set option. I have it set for 30 minutes, and it seems to divide the set intensity of the fixture by that time, and increase/decrease each minute by that number. (So 100% on, for a 30 minute cycle, will adjust the light up/down by about 3%-4% per minute.)
A graduated transition between light to dark periods (simulating nature) has not been shown to enhance yields. Better to chop lights on a precise schedule, full-off or full-on. Though it is cool.
I'm not sure and have to think about this a bit. If the fixture is replaced, that hopefully takes that issue out of play. (If it doesn't, I'm going to be way pissed off.) Still leaves the controller, and I'm not sure where my confidence level is on that. I've had to double check lights on/off every day, and I shouldn't have to worry about doing that. It also means that time away is a gamble right now. I guess I could just not use the sunrise/set option, then if I need to be away I can just put the fixture on its own timer and disconnect the controller.
Why would I do that though? Why should I have to even think of doing so? I shouldn't. Which means my confidence isn't as high as it should be in the product.
It's because of this that I've taken into consideration that if a replacement is my only option, I would move it to a backup role and get new lighting for that tent. Of course that gives me 2 spare lights, but it is what it is.
There are two levels of confidence in growing: 100% or something else. 100% is the only one that works. Any unreliability in any of these systems and a grow simply won't achieve its potential. So invest whatever you have to to have lights and a nutrient system that you can 100% count on. Two good grows and you pay for everything anyway.
Upgrade Top Off Tank
Considering upgrading the top off res from 10gal to 17gal. Kind of a no-brainer on this one. Instead of filling up the top off a couple three times a week, it would lessen the frequency. Could most likely top if off after 2 days and make it through the rest of the week.
Totes are cheap, all things considered, so a $10 fix isn't going to be a burden.
Bigger res=better.
Oscillating Fans
I went from the USB powered ones to the vivosun ones designed to clip on your tent pole. They're ok, even though I could run 5 or 6 of the USB ones for the power of one of these. Even with a fairly low wattage on these (somewhere just under 30w IIRC) when you can save a watt you should if possible.
I would need 3 or 4 of the usb ones to cover the same space (they're a bit limited in how far they turn), but that isn't the real concern I have. So far I have had 6 of these fans fail, all in the same manner, and all didn't last more than a few days from initial poweup. What's failing is the internal power connection, and when the fan oscillates it gets to the end of the turn and cuts out. Sometimes it's turning fast enough that it has enough momentum to swing back the other way just enough to trip the power back on, but eventually it won't and ends up dead in the water. An easy fix for this would be just a hair longer wire run internally, as well as ensuring the connection is solid. Right now it seems that the internal wire length is just a hair short, and the oscillation eventually stresses it enough that it cuts out when it gets close to the end of the swing.
Fan lifespan is almost directly correlated with the price of the fan. So you will either use and regularly replace cheaper ones or get some beefier ones that will last. And don't forget a box fan on the floor, to gently keep a stream of air going through your canopy from below (not too strong) to keep it from getting too wet (mold), mostly a potential issue in a very thick canopy.
To their credit, they haven't blinked and been happy to replace them. However we're at another one of those confidence things again, and my trust in them does not go very far at this point. When they work they are fine, and the real selling point is the clip. However I think I may go another route when I have the next failure. The 6 running now seem to be doing well, but when I check that the lights came on I also make sure the fans are still turning as expected.
Something I've thought about is using stationary fans, and hooking them up to a wave maker. WTF is that, you ask? It's a timer controlled power strip designed for aquariums. Specifically reef tanks. You plug your powerheads into it, set it up, and it will turn them on in sequence to mimic tidal currents.
Using one for fans in a grow would turn on a fan, then wind it down and turn on another one, etc. So out of say, 3 or 4 fans you can create a round-robin of airflow in different directions.
You really like making this complicated, don't you?
What I most likely will do is what I already have in my backup gear. It's one of those little holmes blizzard fans, that is hooked to an iPhone/iPad holder that is designed to attach to a music/microphone stand. I can't take credit for the idea, I found it here in a thread somewhere, but I can say that it works really well.
Which direction I head in I am unsure. But I would like to have a contingency plan in place so that when I have another one fail, and then use the backup, I know what I want to go with.
Nutrients
This is more of an outside thought than anything. I'm quite happy with the results I've been getting with Mega Crop, and I'm also extremely pleased with the price. ($20/grow for a 50gal rig with weekly changes is insane.
However, some may have heard me mention my one little gripe with it: root staining. Outside of straight water hydro, it isn't really an issue. But when you need to check your roots for issues, and they're a light tan/brown from the water, it can make spotting an issue as early as possible almost unlikely.
While I most likely won't make a change, if I were I think I'd look at Jack's. I need to do some more digging on their micro nutes though, as it may not have all I've come accustomed to with MC. Out of all the things I'm thinking over, this one is probably the least likely. Although it still makes for an attractive price at around $30/grow, there is also the old adage about if it's not broke, don't fix it.
What brand of nutes you use doesn't matter; only that your roots are getting all the nutes they need at the right PH so they can absorb them all. I'm not familiar with Mega Crop but the chemistry of growing is universal they all have the things needed. With nutes I think the key is LESS. I only use at most 50% of the recommended strength of ALL my nutes because there's plenty still there and it isn't all used by the plants every fill so watch PPM. Also if you're getting any sludge you're using too much nutes. Your leaf tips will tell you everything, rely on them rather than using a predetermined amount per gallon. I don't have to flush my plants either, because they don't build up a chem taste. Just my take on it but it has worked well for me.
So there's the list so far. What comes of it, I'm not sure. However some combination of things will end up happening. I suppose if I go with drain lines, I don't really need to raise the buckets or any of that mess. I also wouldn't necessarily need a pump upgrade, either. So who knows where things end up, but definitely something will be happening to improve upon what's going on now.
Don't know if anything I suggested helps but I hope so. Simpler is better, do everything with that in mind and you'll get it perfect. Keep it up!
Peace, Hyena
PCaddict
Member
Hay MV and friends I started a new journal if anyone would care to follow along. It is in my sig under second journal
Northern Hydro
Well-Known Member
Hey I have the same air pumps , they are back up now ..picked up this cheap pump and ordered another for when it craps out ..whisper quiet , if noise is a consideration for you . 1 for 2 buckets
Plants looks great ! Namaste
Plants looks great ! Namaste
- Thread starter
- #552
Air pump(s) and stones are already good to go. They've done very well this run, so no worries there. Now it's about tweaks and minor improvement gains.
Why I want to get every bubble possible is simple: water temp. Something happens and the water gets a tick warmer than I'd like, the first thing to go down is DO in the water. So if I'm making as much as possible (within reason, obviously, lol) then that is one hopeful safeguard to counter that.
The pump also has a venturi on it, so I'm getting additional aeration there as well.
There is also a very, very small submersible pump in the res (like 20gph, just enough to stir up the water return path, and which also has a venturi), as well as another air stone.
This proved to be plentiful in O2, but a little more wouldn't hurt.
Agreed wholeheartedly. It wouldn't be hard to bump up 6", and I have the room. It works now, although there is a slight delay between water being sucked out of the res and being replaced from the main buckets. Not all, but some of this simple fluid dynamics. Gotta come up and over that hump, which provides a little bit of resistance.
This isn't a major issue. The system right now is running just fine. This is the little tweak stage where I'm looking to make things even better.
Not sure how or if I'll end up addressing this, but it's certainly an area that has potential to be improved.
The issue now isn't huge. All it does is make for a slightly lower operating water level in the res bucket than it is in the main buckets.
You may laugh at this, but that "Flex Seal" stuff you see advertise has become a good friend against leaks. It's saved me a few times already, and surprisingly it's a pretty good product. I can't speak for some of their wild claims in the commercials, but it does work. It also works when something is dripping. Might take a couple minutes to get it all right and sealed, but I have yet to need to drain something, dry it out, and then go back and seal. So it's handy for that too.
Any added drain lines would be through above the water line, so shouldn't be an issue.
Absolutely. Right now there isn't really any pressure on the output. None at all. Moving to a 600gph shouldn't increase pressure much at all, if I stick with the current 3/4". I think in terms of pressure, if I cut down to 1/2" the pressure should be the same with a 400gph as it would be with a 600gph on the larger size.
I would only make a change here if I decide to straighten out the "hump." If I don't, then the current config would remain as is.
Right. I don't use it for yield. I've used it to better mimic nature a little, in hopes of another way to help and improve overall plant health. More experimental for me than anything, but nothing else I have uses it so it isn't a deal breaker if it wasn't available.
Nutes I have full confidence in (more on that in a sec), but the light I'm not (at this point.) Now as far as light, coverage in footprint and PPFD spread, etc... I'm fully confident in that aspect. Operation on the other hand, not yet. If they have a fix for me (and they do on the light rack itself, not sure about the controller yet) on the controller, then I would be fine with that. I would be cautious until it proved reliable, but it wouldn't be any different than a new piece of gear being run for the first time. If it went through a grow without issue, then I'd be back on track.
Yep. Even if just the top-off res. I don't think I need a giant one, but a little more would make me feel a little better in that regard.
(Not that it appears I'll be traveling any time soon, but at some point it would be a big help.)I would tend to agree, with one exception. These (and the other brand, apparently) of the fans that can clip directly to the vertical tent poles. At $30-$35 each, they should be a lot better than they are. It seems that I have decently built ones running now, and I have two backups (different setup, but still fans) on hand just in case. If any more of these fail, then I'll be looking at moving towards the backup style setup over what there is now.
I'm running a 9" fan on the floor to stir things up. No real room for a standard box fan, but same principle involved. I've thought about adding a second floor fan, and running them in opposite directions. One at the back pointing forward, one at the front on the opposite side pointing to the back.
I have good circulation now though, and the exhaust also pulls from the bottom up through the canopy as well.
You really like making this complicated, don't you?
Well duh! What would life be without trying to improve on current working things and make them even better?
Seriously though, even as a wild idea, it could be pretty fun to make work!
MC is a dry fertilizer. It works very, very well, and with this 50gal rig it runs me about $20/grow for nutes. Veg and flower times tweak that a bit, and I think this particular grow is going to end up using about $25 worth, but that's still dirt cheap for nutes.
I agree with the bottled nutes that you want to run about half what they tell you to run. You may find this surprising, but MC actually gives you a feeding chart that you don't need to cut in half. It's a miracle, I know.
You're definitely right on watching tips. MC advises to watch the shade of green, and to target that really nice, healthy grass kind of green. Too dark, back off, too light, add more.
I've been extremely impressed with its results, so no issue there. This again is looking for minor improvement areas, and I wouldn't be doing myself any favors if I didn't consider every angle and at least take a look.
Anyway, my only real complaint isn't really much at all. Just the light coloration of the roots. Hasn't been an issue, and since I won't be running this setup over the summer, shouldn't be much of an issue at all.
Not a confidence issue here at all. Just a tweak/quirk that in a "perfect" world wouldn't exist.
Of course it did! It's spurred my mind to consider alternatives, or other ways to accomplish the same thing. That's what the whole thing is about... brainstorming and looking for the little tweaks that can make a really good setup even better.
With the first run all but under the belt, now I'm looking for those tiny bits and pieces where performance, reliability, and usability can go to the next level.
Some may be a dead end, some may provide something useful, and yet others may open the door to something not previously considered.
I'm not sure if all, some or any of it happens. I don't think I would be doing myself any favors if I didn't at least look through it all and see if there are options though. But you know exactly how that all goes!
Really this isn't about basics. All of that is operating very well as a whole. The pumps, air pumps, stones, nutes, fans, and all that jazz are good to great. Now it's looking to knock it up a notch where possible. Either through better gear, schematic changes, or whatever may present itself.
- Thread starter
- #553
Todays mix for the week will be backed off again, and from 3.5g/gal to 3g/gal, maybe 3.25g/gal.
EC has still been on the rise, but just barely, and pH has been on a slow drop. I’ve bumped it a couple times to keep it from bottoming out.
Water level has decreased, but not by much this week.
Targeting more directly to the blue dream, as she’ll be about the only one left by the end of the weekend.
Will also be adding calmag at 4ml/gallon, and about .75ml/gal of protekt. Not really for the silica, but for it’s assistance in keeping the pH from dropping too much. I’ll have to see what the pH is first before adding that though. Last weeks dose was a hair much in the beginning (not from a burn up the plant type, but pH was a tad higher than I wanted at the start), so backing off that by half.
Combined with a slight decrease in mega crop, it should balance out ok.
EC went from 1.18 on initial loadup to 1.26 today. Not huge increase, but certainly an indicator that they aren’t as hungry now as they once were.
With blue being on her own shortly, or close to it, I may back off to bi-weekly changes. 50gal for one plant is a good bit of wiggle room.
I’ll of course have to keep tabs on the mix, just to be safe.
EC has still been on the rise, but just barely, and pH has been on a slow drop. I’ve bumped it a couple times to keep it from bottoming out.
Water level has decreased, but not by much this week.
Targeting more directly to the blue dream, as she’ll be about the only one left by the end of the weekend.
Will also be adding calmag at 4ml/gallon, and about .75ml/gal of protekt. Not really for the silica, but for it’s assistance in keeping the pH from dropping too much. I’ll have to see what the pH is first before adding that though. Last weeks dose was a hair much in the beginning (not from a burn up the plant type, but pH was a tad higher than I wanted at the start), so backing off that by half.
Combined with a slight decrease in mega crop, it should balance out ok.
EC went from 1.18 on initial loadup to 1.26 today. Not huge increase, but certainly an indicator that they aren’t as hungry now as they once were.
With blue being on her own shortly, or close to it, I may back off to bi-weekly changes. 50gal for one plant is a good bit of wiggle room.
I’ll of course have to keep tabs on the mix, just to be safe.
- Thread starter
- #554
Starting EC of 1.085
~3g/gal MC
4.25ml/gal Calmag
.75ml/gal protekt
6ml pH up to bring it from 5.7 to 6.0
~3g/gal MC
4.25ml/gal Calmag
.75ml/gal protekt
6ml pH up to bring it from 5.7 to 6.0
- Thread starter
- #555
Flower: Day 77 (84 days from flip)
Both the Strawberry Lemonades and the Durban Poison met the hatchet man today, and the bounty filled the 4x2 I'm using for drying.
I have it set up with 3 "levels" that are 20" apart, and there are 4 rows per level. It looks awful touchy, but the buds aren't touching. No wet trimming this go, so it was chop and hang, chop and hang. Tried to keep each branch similar in size in hopes of keeping the drying somewhat even (yeah, ok...
) and finishing up in the same time. I'm guessing a couple will be a hair more dry than others that are good to go.
Give it a week or two and the tumbler should finally see some action.
I was in a hurry closing up, and didn't get a pic of the wreckage of the tent. With 3/4 of the scrog net gone, that left the Blue Dream to flop herself open a good bit. Got her as situated as possible with some yoyo's and such, then lowered the light so most of her was 18" or less from the light. She had a good bit of the green larf in her center core, so maybe something good comes from that getting some more light. I may go ahead and chop her tops when they're done in a couple weeks, and let some of the under growth go a little longer. Not real sure yet, but we'll see how it goes and play it by ear. With the inner larf getting more light now, as well as UVB exposure, they may come around. I guess the worst thing that could happen is getting some more frost on them for making some good oil.
I'm guessing the Blue Dream is going to go another couple weeks. Her pistils just started to turn this week on the tops, so I'll keep an eye on her.
Thanks to some sales going on, I was able to pick up some of the next run (which will be in the fall) for the rig. So far I have 3 of 5 strains ordered, and hoping I can find a deal for the other 2 strains.
What's going to run?
From In House Genetics:
- Slurricane
- Deluxe Sugar Cane
- Platinum Jelly
From Barney's Farm:
- Morning Glory
- Mimosa EVO
I've purchased the IHG stuff, so that's a start. Will be hitting somewhere for the Barney's at some point. If I can find a 4/20 deal, cool. If not, there's still plenty of time.
With the IHG stuff being a lean to the indica side, I wanted to try and balance that with some more sativa lean. Having had good results from Barney's, that was a pretty easy choice. From there is was narrowing down what I was after, and these two checked the boxes.
Both the Strawberry Lemonades and the Durban Poison met the hatchet man today, and the bounty filled the 4x2 I'm using for drying.
I have it set up with 3 "levels" that are 20" apart, and there are 4 rows per level. It looks awful touchy, but the buds aren't touching. No wet trimming this go, so it was chop and hang, chop and hang. Tried to keep each branch similar in size in hopes of keeping the drying somewhat even (yeah, ok...
) and finishing up in the same time. I'm guessing a couple will be a hair more dry than others that are good to go.Give it a week or two and the tumbler should finally see some action.
I was in a hurry closing up, and didn't get a pic of the wreckage of the tent. With 3/4 of the scrog net gone, that left the Blue Dream to flop herself open a good bit. Got her as situated as possible with some yoyo's and such, then lowered the light so most of her was 18" or less from the light. She had a good bit of the green larf in her center core, so maybe something good comes from that getting some more light. I may go ahead and chop her tops when they're done in a couple weeks, and let some of the under growth go a little longer. Not real sure yet, but we'll see how it goes and play it by ear. With the inner larf getting more light now, as well as UVB exposure, they may come around. I guess the worst thing that could happen is getting some more frost on them for making some good oil.
I'm guessing the Blue Dream is going to go another couple weeks. Her pistils just started to turn this week on the tops, so I'll keep an eye on her.
Thanks to some sales going on, I was able to pick up some of the next run (which will be in the fall) for the rig. So far I have 3 of 5 strains ordered, and hoping I can find a deal for the other 2 strains.
What's going to run?
From In House Genetics:
- Slurricane
- Deluxe Sugar Cane
- Platinum Jelly
From Barney's Farm:
- Morning Glory
- Mimosa EVO
I've purchased the IHG stuff, so that's a start. Will be hitting somewhere for the Barney's at some point. If I can find a 4/20 deal, cool. If not, there's still plenty of time.
With the IHG stuff being a lean to the indica side, I wanted to try and balance that with some more sativa lean. Having had good results from Barney's, that was a pretty easy choice. From there is was narrowing down what I was after, and these two checked the boxes.
Congrats on the harvest, Looks like a nice haul. You’ll like the IHG gear a lot.
- Thread starter
- #557
Thanks Penny!
Still have 2 plants ripening, one in here and the GDP in the 3x3 dutch bucket. Will be interesting to see the final weights.
Durban took on a real fuel kinda smell to her. Different than other fuels I’ve smelled, but definitely fuel to it. Took me a bit to really place it, but that seems to be as good of a description as any.
Still have 2 plants ripening, one in here and the GDP in the 3x3 dutch bucket. Will be interesting to see the final weights.
Durban took on a real fuel kinda smell to her. Different than other fuels I’ve smelled, but definitely fuel to it. Took me a bit to really place it, but that seems to be as good of a description as any.
Could it be pine you’re smelling?
- Thread starter
- #559
No, not really pine. It may be a combination of things, but definitely an almost diesel smell to it. But wasn't quite like you would think of something that has the diesel smell. But it is definitely some type of fuel smell.
It's not bad, just different, and who knows how that turns out after it cures.
It's not bad, just different, and who knows how that turns out after it cures.
- Thread starter
- #560
Did a big cleanup last night, and tried to get the Blue Dream more comfy. One of her node stems broke, but not completely. Taped it and it should be alright for a week or two. If not, I'll start that branch drying.
Got some of the branches better arranged and supported, still have some to do. Ran up against the lights kicking off, and didn't get a pic. Will try to do that today after I finish sorting her out and supporting her.
Definitely going to either skip the scrog next time, or figure out a better way to support it for each plant so that when an individual plant is taken out it doesn't screw over the others. I already have the high cfm support bars, but I could run a 3/4" pvc in a cross pattern and use the support bars for the outsider anchor points. I used the bars this go around, and that part was fine. It was the middle that flopped.
I'm thinking with the cross, effectively dividing into 4 parts, that I could tie the net down to that, and when I cut a plant out then there shouldn't be an issue as the others are still supported just fine. So I'll be adding this to my checkup list to look into and mess with over the upcoming down time.
Had to order from two different places, but I was able to get hold of both from Barney's. One I'm nervous about (or should I say a-boot?) and the other my attitude is just fine.
I was going to order direct from Barney's, but I guess they won't ship to the US from their site. Oh well.
So the next run has been procured, and now we wait for shipping and then fall!
Got some of the branches better arranged and supported, still have some to do. Ran up against the lights kicking off, and didn't get a pic. Will try to do that today after I finish sorting her out and supporting her.
Definitely going to either skip the scrog next time, or figure out a better way to support it for each plant so that when an individual plant is taken out it doesn't screw over the others. I already have the high cfm support bars, but I could run a 3/4" pvc in a cross pattern and use the support bars for the outsider anchor points. I used the bars this go around, and that part was fine. It was the middle that flopped.
I'm thinking with the cross, effectively dividing into 4 parts, that I could tie the net down to that, and when I cut a plant out then there shouldn't be an issue as the others are still supported just fine. So I'll be adding this to my checkup list to look into and mess with over the upcoming down time.
Had to order from two different places, but I was able to get hold of both from Barney's. One I'm nervous about (or should I say a-boot?
) and the other my attitude is just fine.I was going to order direct from Barney's, but I guess they won't ship to the US from their site. Oh well.
So the next run has been procured, and now we wait for shipping and then fall!
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