My First Grow Ever - CFL - Bag Seed

[MJGrowinCat]

Hi everyone! Ive been lurking around this and other forums a lot lately because Ive decided to start my first ever grow, Ive been reading grow books and researching for about the last year and decided that it was time to give it a shot.

Is it in Veg or Flower stage?
Veg
If in Veg... For how long?
About a week shes just a seedling
Indoor or outdoor?
Indoor, i built a tent that's 2.25'x2.25'x3.5' How many plants do you think i could fit in there? i am thinking 4 is my max.
Soil or Hydro?
Soil
If soil... what is in your mix?
MG (yeah i know i have almost no money right now and it was in the garage, i will be getting something better soon)
Size of light?
4x 42w 5500k CFL's and 4x 42w 2700k CFL's
Is it aircooled?
yup small desk fan
Temp of Room/cab?
85 right now
How often are you watering?
Once a day
Type and strength of ferts used?
When i get some cash (hopefully at the end of this week) i will be ordering BPN

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever~CFL~Bagseed~

So Ive been fighting high temps, in hindsight thermal blankets probably weren't the best choice for a small grow space lol, I added one of those window fans and that seems to keep the area around the top of the plant at a nice 87 degrees. I am watering about once a day, I am sticking my finger down to about the second knuckle and its dry so i give her a drink, i had germed a second seed but it doesn't seem to want to pop up :/

 

[green cypress]

Re: My First Grow Ever~CFL~Bagseed~

hey bud y not just water wen needed,2 much=root rot etc & co2 probs,i have 125cfl dual spec bulb,but built 3x2.5ft sq box,im trying 2 find good cheapish (£10?) nute,like all in 1 but found better 2 get veg & bloom nutes separately,i havnt decided yet,still a weed grower virgin! Any advice about anything,but i was told feed after 1st set of leaves(fan)at 1/4 strength &work up with watering in beween,feed,water,feed,last 2 wks-flush-spring water,or spray all over 2 2 rid build up of salts etc.Never water everyday,try checking by weight,let the plant have dry periods also To bring co2 2 the roots.C u.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Re: My First Grow Ever~CFL~Bagseed~

I like DIY grows & what people use to put together a tent 'n' stuff


Your temps are a tad high you could/might run into problems some where along the lines tho.

You might want to think of an extraction fan at the top of the tent, hot air rise's after all & a passive intake vent near the base of the tent - cold air sinks.

This will help pull cooler air through tent keeping temps lower in theory & act as air exchange as plants use Co2 to do their stuff, its important to have air exchange going pretty constant.

PC fans are an option for DIY set ups for extraction & even intake.


I've never been over keen on the 5500k CFLs as they don't really kick out the right spectrum on mass for the plant, whilst they do put out some. They will work tho but not as well as colour spectrum specific CFLs.

6400k blue spectrum for veg - some times you find em in 6500k.

2700k red/orange for flowering.

Ya can get big hortic grow CFLs in 125w, 200w, 250w & 300w E40 bayonet fitting requires seperate reflector or bayonet fitting and lead than the standard E27 fitting domestic bulbs.

These bigger CFLs are a tad more energy effecient than lots of little domestic bulbs & colour spectrum specific, normally higher lumen out put than equivalent wattage of domestic bulbs.

Not that lumen has any think to do with plants and more of intensity of spectrum out put of bulbs.

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever~CFL~Bagseed~

Hi fuzzy thanks for the input, when i was buying bulbs 5500k was the closest i could get to the 6500k that i knew i needed, i didn't know it would make that big of a difference :/. i gotta think of a way to mount that window fan on top of the tent and create a vent somehow.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

I would not worry about it, you might be suprised on how many people do use the 5500k bulbs.

Always room for improvement futher down the line


Light Spectrums & Colours

Light from the sun is ideal but it's not the same as artificial light, where output quality, spectrum etc varies upon the type of lamp and how it is used. Many growers think that more lumens = better growth / yields, when in fact artificial light, even at its best in a HID or HPS lamp in not so good in terms of colours. Much of the light from the bulb is not used by the plant, mainly because it is not in the 400 to 700 nw (nanawave) spectrum, and plants can only see and use light in this range. Light quality and its colours are as important as lumens.

Light, as seen by plants, is not a single colour but separate bands of active colours and the plant senses each colour-band of light as a separate signal. Each band of colour has a different effect on plants and the following are only a few of the functions, which each band of light promotes.

Blue Light (350 - 500 NW) powers chlorophyll production, powers cell actively, energies the stomata movement and makes the plant follow light.

Green / Yellow Light (500 - 650 nw) ~ not much action from these bands of light.

Red Light (600 - 700 NW) makes sugar from CO2, powers chloroplast production, signals light and dark times among other functions.

Strong blue and red light photons (as above) are also needed for good carbon dioxide uptake.

The PAR scale measures all these coloured photons between 400nw & 700nw, the critical range for plants, as this is only range that plants can use light. If it is not in this range then it's wasted light.

PAR

For growers PAR is all-important ~ and as important as lumens! PAR stands for > Photosynthetic Active Radiation.

Photosynthetic, the light sensed by a leaf pigment.

Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy

Radiation, another word for light & photon energy

PAR is a measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to growing and greenhouse light measurement. Why is it important to you?

PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then the actual output lumen of the grow lamp!

* A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.

So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light colours that the plant uses to energise its pigments and generate sugar energy, and it’s the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce such sweet fruits!

PAR and Fluorescent Lamps

In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! )

HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.

Envirolite CFL Lamps (CFL = Compact Fluorescent Lamps)

The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.

Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps

Light Intensity

Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically. (If you can borrow, beg, steal or get access to a light meter please try this ~ you will be extremely surprised at the rate at which the light intensity reduces over a short distance)

Light from an HID or HPS lamp reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your lamps are 2' or 3’ above your plants much of the light is wasted. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants and much of the light, and your money, is wasted.

One benefit of using high-out put CFL’s is that they do not generate as much heat and can be kept almost on top of the plants producing the exact 100% PAR light, with no loss of intensity. So if you position these new lamps close to the leaves you get the benefit of 100% PAR light in the correct 400nw to 700nw range, giving the plant the correct light colours and light quality.

Growing With Envirolites

Envirolites can be used to grow seeds and to propagate cuttings. They can also be used as the main lighting system for plants in the vegetative and flowering stages.

The secret to growing with Envirolites is to position your lamp or reflector just an inch or two above your plants.

(We use Easy-Roll Reflector Hangers and adjust the reflector height a small amount each day or so. We keep our Envirolite no more than 1" above the plant top.)

Positioning these new compact lights directly above the plants maintains light intensity, no lumens are lost and the PAR / Spectrum is 100%, which is like natural sunlight. The plants get all the lumens they need with the light being in the correct spectrum.

Envirolites are available in 2 models: Red 2700k (kelvin) and White 6400k (kelvin)

Red 2700k 125w, 200w and 250w lamps are used mostly for flowering. Many growers also use these lamps as a supplement to ‘hang’ by the side or in between plants when flowering. They can be used with HPS lamps, as a supplement or by themselves. We use them 100% and no longer use HPS lamps.

White / blue 6400K 125w, 200w and 250w lamps can be used for propagation and vegetative growth.

Some red light in the vegetative light mix is also recommended, as is a little white / blue light in the flowering mix. With different combinations of red and white lamps growers can obtain the ideal lumen output and spectrum required for excellent results in all stages of growing.

Envirolites provide 100% PAR, which is such an important factor and it is important to be able to calculate the PAR values obtained from your grow lights and how much light your plants need to give maximum yield. If you are using HID / HPS lamps you should contact your supplier and ask them about PAR output, it is important that you know this as well as lumen output.

These brief notes are to only give you a very brief introduction into how plants work, how light is measured in horticultural world and the importance of PAR as well as lumens. I hope it stimulates you to learn a little more about lights, plants, pigment, PAR and produce!

Envirolite Summary

Envirolites are effective, energy-saving, reliable, low heat generating horticultural grow lamps, giving excellent results and lower operating costs for all indoor growers.

Plants need light in the correct spectrum, which is proven to be between 400 & 700 Nana Wave, and Envirolites produce high output light in exactly this spectrum. There is no wasted light, unlike HID and HPS lamps were much of the light cannot even be seen or used by the plant.

Envirolites give 100% PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) high output light and are used successfully for all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages.

Envirolites do not generate excessive heat and can be used directly over plants. This is the secret of growing with Envirolites, positioned directly above, just 3 cm or 4 cm, the top of the plants! Unlike HID lamps, this new generation, grow lamps will not burn your plants.

This is a real advantage compared to growing with HID lamps, as there is no wasted light, which occurs when HID lamps are positioned high above plants. Envirolites give 100 % PAR, correct spectrum, high lumen light directly on top of your plants - where they need it!

• Self Ballasting Lamps - simple to install or wire

• 100 % PAR in the correct spectrum for growing

• Generates much less heat than HID Lamps

• Energy saving lamps give lower operating costs

• High Lumen Output ~ Long Life Operation

• 125w, 200w and 250w Envirolites are available in 2 models:

6400K for Propagation & vegetative growing

2700K for Flowering stage growing

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Wow! thanks for the read, that was some of the most in-depth stuff Ive read on lights recently, Ive managed to mount that fan on top of my tent to get some airflow like you suggested(pics soon), now Im going to close it up and see what the temps are at in a few hours. just wondering what is your opinion on led's when i have some money to spend which wont be for awhile i was thinking about getting a 300w array for this tent.

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Here's some pics of the updated tent, and from now on with my updates ill be posting some bud porn from my pickups over the last year or so, this one is some GDP MMMM

 

[mikey232]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Led right now is a bad buy not established yet and there very expencive if you don't use HID lights I would suggest a nice set up of T5 check out the bad boy set ups there nice. Also watch the water it's so very easy to over water!

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Mini update:
Temps are looking good, so is the plant nice and green and the first set of true leafs are getting big!, ill be posting picture updates of the plant every Sunday (1 week) that way the growth will be apparent.
Here's some bud porn Grapefruit Kush:

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

I'm pleased to hear that the modifications to the venting has been successful & you enjoyed the read on the lighting side of things, lil snip bits of info goe's a long way.


I don't know much about LEDs yet but you will find various threads/post about them here - Grow Lighting


The grape fruit kush looks just sweet, gonna have to try a few kush strain myself in the future

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Picture Update:​

So here she is!, i did the exact math and im 99% sure this lil one popped her head above ground on the 16th or 17th, making her just a couple days over a week old, that seem right to everyone given her size and whatnot? anyway im watering about once every other day now and thats about all thats changed besides those second leafs coming in!

Here's some bud porn to give you something to look at another kush i had gotten.

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

HELP!
Im not 100% sure but i think that the soil is causing nute burn! i flushed it today, should i keep doing this?

 

[mikey232]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

No more flushing you are going to drowned the lil guys

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

i only flushed once and the leaves looked like that before i had.

 

[wranglerpx]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

get it out of that crappy time released soil. It may seem like you are doing the right thing by flushing but everytime you add water to that soil it releases nutes. Find new soil quick and trrrrransplant!

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

i ordered some happy frog and perlite yesterday it should be here soon! should i hold off on watering as much as possible?

 

[wranglerpx]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

yess, by the looks of it i dont know if it will last the time it will take your soil to ship. You might want to go buy some cheap non time released soil from walmart or something for the meantime. You can get the seed starter soil very cheap.

 

[MJGrowinCat]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

Update​

Updates kinda late because i wasn't expecting her to live, but today i have some hope finally, i transplanted her on 3/2 into some Happy frog soil out of the MG i was using and shes finally starting to look a little better. I also ordered BPN Organics should be here on Monday!

still not 100% but much better than before, ive been looking around at some seeds, i enjoy sativa more than indica but hybrids are nice. I am DEF going to order some PPP from Nirvana but i was also looking at Hash Bomb From Bomb seeds, anyone had experience with either of these, i can only afford 3 of each if i were to order them would it be worth it? or should i stick to one strain which would be the PPP.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Re: My First Grow Ever - CFL - BagSeed

it looks like your soil might have been to hot. meaning to much nutes to begin with... transplanting will help, I use Supersoil, it is fairly cheap and you can pick it up at Home Depot. 2 cu ft bag = $8 and change...

You will love the BPN, I use the full Farmer's Pride Organics line, and I have since the roll out last year in August.

Oh how rude of me, Astonr420 here General of the BPN Army, how are you doing today brotha? I hope good. anyways, if you have a pH meter handy, check the pH... this might give an insight of what is going on here as well...