Need info on using CO2 in grow room

[Auggie]

I started a sponsor grow and as communicated with @Auggie on running CO2 at 800 ppm from the start , has been running since 08/26/21 .

thought that 1500 ppm was necessary ? 800 ppm is great !!

I manage two 12 light rooms.
About six months ago I did a test. The rooms just happened to have the SAME genetics in them. We used the same nutes, pest control methods, lights, etc. EVERYTHING was exactly the same in both rooms.
What a field day for a test, eh?

Room 1 ran at 850 ppm while lights on.
Room 2 ran at 1400 ppm while lights on.

Harvest weight on room 1 = 21,360 grams.
Harvest weight on room 2 = 22,800 grams.

Conclusion and recommendation to management: The extra cost involved with running at above 1200 ppm of CO2 is not worth the extra minimal production.

We run all our flower rooms at 800 to 900 ppm.

 

[TorturedSoul]

If you're running a mixture of LED lights that range in quality from "I think they're probably okay" to "they might be pretty good," and you don't have at least 60 (actual) watts per square foot... and/or your garden temperatures are less than about 89°F (with your exhaust fan off), adding supplemental CO2 is not going to help, IMHO.

Hydro sounds pretty complicated to me. Every time I read something on it someones having a problem. Because I work a lot of OT & don't have the time to make sure everything is right all the time I've been avoiding it. Hydro sounds like you really have to be on top of things 100% of the time with no room for mistakes or you lose your crop. Maybe I'll try just one of those 4 or 6 plant Hydro Tubs I've seen to find out 1st hand how hard it is. I hate to invest too much till I know I can handle it.

Can you visit your garden at least once every two days?

Go to Home Depot (or Big Lots) and buy a plastic tote of 20- to 23-gallon capacity. Swing by ChinaMart, go to the pet section, and buy an air pump, some long air stones, and enough tubing to connect them together while allowing you to place the air pump higher than the top of the tote (so if the power fails and its check valve is faulty, you won't return to find all of your nutrient solution soaking through the ceiling in the room below, lol). Also buy the "Aqua-Tech Submersible Pump for Aquariums" (it's an aquarium power head, states as much right on the front of the box) for $22.82. The combination will provide enough aeration for that size reservoir.

You'll also need: one LARGE Solo cup and enough expanded clay media (aka "clay balls," sold under the brand names of Hydroton, Geolite, etc.). Also a piece of 2"-hole poultry netting (aka "chicken wire") approximately 4'×4' in size, and something to connect it (rigidly) to your tent. Cut/saw/melt/gnaw a hole just big enough to stick the Solo cup in (tightly) so that only a couple inches or so sticks out, in the middle of the tote lid. Drill or otherwise create as many ¼" holes in the part of the cup (including bottom) that will be below the tote lid as you can without getting them so close together that they become big holes.

Install air pump, 'stones, and power head. It'll probably be easier if you drill a hole for the air line, and another one just large enough for the plug on the end of the power head's cord. Whoops - you'll also need a young cannabis plant, heh. You can use a seedling, but it's probably better to use one worth a set or two of actual leaves. Rinse off all the soil you can from its roots. Take your time and be gentle. After you get most off, you can swish it around in a bowl of room temperature for a while. Don't worry about not getting 100% of it off; you won't be building the kind of setup that pumps nutrient solution through small-diameter lines.

Got your soon-to-be monster plant ready? Good. Fill the Solo cup with the expanded clay media and plant roots. If you can get any to go through some holes, great. If not, that's okay. Now jam/twist the cup into the hole in the lid. Attach lid to tote.

Congratulations! You've just constructed your very own DWC setup, and at a cost that's considerably cheaper than most "professional" ones. If you use the poultry netting to turn it into an actual, legitimate SCROG, it's capable of producing a pound of bud per harvest. Fill the tote (reservoir) with nutrient solution. It doesn't really have to be FULL - but if it's not in contact with at least one root tip, you'll have to pour nutrient solution through the cup at least a couple (more is better) times per day until it is. Once at least one root tip gets into the solution, you can stop helping. BtW, the root system will destroy the cup eventually. By then, the poultry netting will be supporting the plant.

Okay, here is where I'll be a bit hypocritical: Buy a set of General Hydroponics Flora series nutrients (FloraMicro, FloraGro, and FloraBloom). I stopped recommending GH products a while back, but that's because Scotts MiracleGro bought the company, through its Hawthorne Group shell entity. The products are great - and great for a beginner. If you have "hard" water, there is a Hardwater FloraMicro component available that contains less calcium. You might end up needing their "CalMag" product, but not immediately.

Oh, wait, you still have half a tent empty. Head back to the store and pick up a 4 cubic foot bag of perlite. That's more than you'll need, probably, but it doesn't spoil. Now start buying two-liter bottles of Mountain Dew or that stuff that Coca-Cola sells in green bottles that tastes like death with extra corn syrup,I forget what it's called. You can use clear bottles, but you'll have to paint or tape them to keep light out of the root zone. Put a hole in it, a couple inches from the bottom. Fill each one with perlite and a rooted clone. If they go straight into flower, you can really pack them in. Hmm... No, have to do that in a separate tent, because your SCROG plant needs some time to turn into something that you'll need a saw to cut loose at harvest. Well, you'll think of something to put in there. Meanwhile, here's a little thread on the pop bottle hempy concept:

Come SOG With Me: 112 Plants, 2 Liter, Hempy SOG

Hello everyone, It's been a long time since I've ran a journal here. I just started a large SOG grow today so I've decided to journal it here for you. I have 3 Snow White(NLXCinderella99) mothers in my veg room along with a 50 site aero cloner. I just transplanted the first 16 rooted clones...

www.420magazine.com

That is a passive hydroponics setup, which simply means hand-watered, not actively aerated.

There are other setups, but those are cheap and simple (but productive). The big hempy thread shows other container ideas. Buckets are popular. Dollar Tree sells little black trash cans for a dollar that are, IIRC, 5.9-quart capacity. Et cetera. There are lots of other nutrient brands. That one is just inexpensive (although not the cheapest in existence), clean, stable, and has been around since the late '70s or thereabouts. If it's good enough for NASA, lol...

You'll also need a decent pH meter, but I assume you have one. If not, the Milwaukee Instruments pH56 worked great for me. It's not the cheapest, but it's waterproof (might come in handy ), has a replaceable probe, is accurate, auto temperature compensation (and shows the temperature of what you're checking), and has "automatic" two factor(?) calibration. If you don't know how to properly do the initial prepping of, store, and/or calibrate a pH meter, search for a thread or post one, and you'll get help with that.

Hydroponics is easy. It just scares people who don't know anything about it because, well... they don't know anything about it, lol. Some even say that if a person has never grown anything other than what they run a lawn mower over once a week in the warmer months, it's better to start the gardening journey via hydroponics.

Oh: print out a copy of Mulder's Chart (search routine should bring it up) and one of the deficiency/toxicity pictorial threads. Also, there's a chart that tells you what's happening - and what to do about it, if anything - when your nutrient solution is rising/falling/static and your EC is rising/falling/static. It's not necessary, but might be helpful (and educational to look at).

 

[safeman]

I manage two 12 light rooms.
About six months ago I did a test. The rooms just happened to have the SAME genetics in them. We used the same nutes, pest control methods, lights, etc. EVERYTHING was exactly the same in both rooms.
What a field day for a test, eh?

Room 1 ran at 850 ppm while lights on.
Room 2 ran at 1400 ppm while lights on.

Harvest weight on room 1 = 21,360 grams.
Harvest weight on room 2 = 22,800 grams.

Conclusion and recommendation to management: The extra cost involved with running at above 1200 ppm of CO2 is not worth the extra minimal production.

We run all our flower rooms at 800 to 900 ppm.

Thanks for you information - good to hear about you study !!! 800-900ppm now

 

[Auggie]

Thanks for you information - good to hear about you study !!! 800-900ppm now

Every once in a while it works out to where I can do that kind of thing. I did a "Crowding Study" with the same rooms. Same genetic (Gorilla Glue 4).
We usually put 9 plants in five gallon smart pots under each 1000 wt Gavida DE bulb.
The question was ... will putting more plants result in more weight production.

So, Rm 1 was 9 per light. 9 x 12 is 108 plants.
Rm 2 was 12 per light. 12 x 12 is 144 plants.

Weight was almost exactly the same. Within a few grams.
BUT, the trimmers complained that there was a lot of popcorn sized flowers. Under developed, fluffy. They worked harder for the same weight.
AND, the bag appeal was less because there was much more marble sized flowers.

CONCLUSION: More is not necessarily better.

Some day I will test the other direction and put fewer than 9 ...

 

[safeman]

Every once in a while it works out to where I can do that kind of thing. I did a "Crowding Study" with the same rooms. Same genetic (Gorilla Glue 4).
We usually put 9 plants in five gallon smart pots under each 1000 wt Gavida DE bulb.
The question was ... will putting more plants result in more weight production.

So, Rm 1 was 9 per light. 9 x 12 is 108 plants.
Rm 2 was 12 per light. 12 x 12 is 144 plants.

Weight was almost exactly the same. Within a few grams.
BUT, the trimmers complained that there was a lot of popcorn sized flowers. Under developed, fluffy. They worked harder for the same weight.
AND, the bag appeal was less because there was much more marble sized flowers.

CONCLUSION: More is not necessarily better.

Some day I will test the other direction and put fewer than 9 ...

"pop corn" size buds not so good - -- another good thing to know when using CO2 ( from old school -1,500 ppm NEEDED) do you use the PVD method of growing (temps/rh/? ) (if I'm using the correct name of- will check) believe "Swamp Boys" swear by this PVD +CO2 = even better yields ? Thanks again

 

[Auggie]

"pop corn" size buds not so good - -- another good thing to know when using CO2 ( from old school -1,500 ppm NEEDED) do you use the PVD method of growing (temps/rh/? ) (if I'm using the correct name of- will check) believe "Swamp Boys" swear by this PVD +CO2 = even better yields ? Thanks again

Small buds was NOT a result of CO2.

It was the result of me changing the topic so fast as to almost cause a whip-lash. I was talking about over crowding in that paragraph.

Never heard of PVD ... wassat?

 

[safeman]

Small buds was NOT a result of CO2.

It was the result of me changing the topic so fast as to almost cause a whip-lash. I was talking about over crowding in that paragraph.

Never heard of PVD ... wassat?

It's called PPD or PPV (Posiitive Pressure Deficit or Possitive Pressure Vapor) using this method of growing is ideal fro growing pants. First heard about it a few years ago

 

[safeman]

Small buds was NOT a result of CO2.

It was the result of me changing the topic so fast as to almost cause a whip-lash. I was talking about over crowding in that paragraph.

Never heard of PVD ... wassat?

over crowding can sure cause that - one 3by3 space with 5 plants can be over crowding a bit only if you add one more = total of 6 !!!!!!

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's called PPD or PPV (Posiitive Pressure Deficit or Possitive Pressure Vapor) using this method of growing is ideal fro growing pants. First heard about it a few years ago

VPD?

 

[safeman]

VPD?

look it up !! too understand it

 

[Auggie]

In plan language: Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD) means the difference in vapor pressure between the inside of the leaf compared to the vapor pressure outside of the leaf. The inside of the leaf is always wet.
VPD actually has little to no effect on yield! Research shows that VPD has no effect on flower number or plant yield in some species (Erickson & Markhart, 2001). ... Above 3 kPa, every 0.1 kPa increase in VPD can result in 1.5 – 2.8% decreases in yield (Ruxton et al., 2014).

 

[safeman]

In plan language: Vapor Pressure Deficit (VPD) means the difference in vapor pressure between the inside of the leaf compared to the vapor pressure outside of the leaf. The inside of the leaf is always wet.
VPD actually has little to no effect on yield! Research shows that VPD has no effect on flower number or plant yield in some species (Erickson & Markhart, 2001). ... Above 3 kPa, every 0.1 kPa increase in VPD can result in 1.5 – 2.8% decreases in yield (Ruxton et al., 2014).

Great info -- always good to learn from others - I was way off with the PVD "method" basicly it giving the plant a good enviroment to live and grow in !!! right

 

[Lythere]

Co2 changes the game. Tanks make dank so using tanks is best for small set ups but I’ve always used a propane burner on larger set ups

 

[PaulyG]

Hiya buddy I'd like to give you some friendly advice and please don't take it the wrong way.
But co2 isn't going to improve your yields. It's a tool that's there for growers that already have everything dialed in to push things that bit further. If you're struggling to get good yields then theres many more important things to worry about first before thinking about running a closed circuit for the sake of co2. Closed circuit adds in lots more complications that I can't even comprehend right now.
If yield is what your after then would you consider hydro growing? That's the easiest way to improve. Need to be a bit more Jedi to get yields in soil. It's a bit out of my skill range too. I do though have a £30 NFT hydro reservoir that turns autos into 1lb monsters with ease. Don't even need an air pump for it.
My record in 3-5gal pots is 4oz. Same strain in the reservoir got me 22oz in the same time and I'd been growing for a year less than you when I got that one.
Let the Res do the hardwork and feeding so all you gotta do is tie the plant down n trim it.

Lol the use of CO2 is illegal where I live. Using CO2 can cause health issues including death from asphyxiation.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Lol the use of CO2 is illegal where I live. Using CO2 can cause health issues including death from asphyxiation.

Using H2O can cause health issues including death from drowning. They outlaw water, too?

 

[Auggie]

Lol the use of CO2 is illegal where I live. Using CO2 can cause health issues including death from asphyxiation.

Holy crap.
Where do you live

I live in California which is one of THE most intrusive of the Nanny States, and they haven't gotten to that yet.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Funny how things have changed so much for me since I started this thread back in April of 2019. Whole different upgraded set up. Totally different grow style. Yields have quadrupled.
It's kind of humorous to me looking back at things.

 

[NickHardy]

Do you grow with co2?

Nick

 

[Trump]

I was taking care of a small grow for a friend on vacation. 8 HID Raptor hoods. 4 per room.

Before we left for the day I went ahead and setup the CO2 setup(25 lb CO2 tanks, Regulator, CO2 controller) and before I left I opened the tank and turned on the system and left. When I came back I checked room one and it was fine. 1200ppm. Went to room 2 and the room was at 2500 ppm! WTF?

The pressure level glass had a crack in it and let out all the gas in the room. I thought for sure I had killed them but they went on to be one of my biggest yields.

I have no idea if the leak is what did it but I replaced the regulator that day and it ran at 1200ppm for the rest of the grow.

 

[NickHardy]

It’ll kill you at like 4-5000ppm and the plants will be fine. It just stops adding any real value above say 1400ppm. But you have to assist with totally banging light levels or they can’t use it.