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first-tymer

New Member
I recently had the pleasure of going to a local hydroponic store and purchasing what the guy behind the counter thought would get me the results I am looking for. I walked out with a 4'x4'x7' growlab120, 600w hps blockbuster 6, 6" inline fane, waterfarm 8pack hydro setup, clay pellets, nutrients (can describe if needed), a digital ph meter, plug in manual timer, twenty feet of flexible duct, thermometer, etc.... oh and a big @$$ bill. I am considering purchasing some sort of supplimental co2 system, and getting another inline fan because the one I have now i have cooling the light therefore the only air circulating inside the tent is coming via a pedistal fan i have in the stationary position and very little air is actually circulating through the tent.
As far at adding co2 I am lost as well, everything I read is telling me i should invest the money and do it, but I am low on funds and most word of mouth advise I get is that I dont need to worrry about it and that there should still be enough co2 in the air outside to produce a big yield in a short period of time... who do I believe?
I had a seedling in soil that sprouted out of a houseplant someone must have disguarded into and I transplanted it into a single waterfarm setup and put it in the tent under the light in a veg cycle today but have added very little nutrients. I am doin this as a trial run before my initial seed shipment arrives.
Currently my temp is about 90 degrees my humidity is about 28% and I am having problems figuring out how to properly use this portable ph meter but it reads at 7.8 which seems very high.
I can't tell if the plant is doing well in there yet or not, but based on what I do know the temperature seems too high and the humidity too low. The ph is also way on the high side as well and needs to become much more acidic.
I am struggling with ideas on how to fix these levels before I start my new seedlings and am strapped for cash now as well. All ideas are more than welcome and will be taken into consideration. Please help!
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Knowledge is power & to gain that you need to do a little research...

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/...-grow-marijuana-everything-you-need-know.html

Other wise investments are costly and mistakes expensive, once ya read it, read it again & once you think you read it all read it another time to be sure...


I use it as a reference guide all the time :cheer:



You will need another inline fan exhaust/extractor to aid in air change for the tent this ideally needs to changed the air up to 20 times a hour, but can get away with a tad less.
This helps to bring new co2 into the grow enviroment, i like to leave a window or 2 open just a little bit to help with ventilation of fresh air.


Mmm humidity..

50% to 60% is ideal with lower humidity in flowering to ward off bud rot/powdery mildew etc

A cheap way to help raise humidity is a wet towel hanging up or a large bowl filled with water inside off tent.

More expense if ya like is to purchase a humidifier.


Hydro PH should be around 5.8

You can use PH down solution to lower nutrient mix to a suitable PH level.

Also some cheaper PH pens need to be calibrated with a correct PH solution to maintain accurate results regular, reading up on PH/EC & PPM is well advisable for new growers to hydro :thumb:


Enjoy & welcome to :420:
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
One of best ways to get advice & help through out entire grow, is to start a grow journal keeping it updated regular & pic's.


We all :love: eye candy here & some times a pic can paint a 1000 words when it comes to plant problems :thumb:
 

datrippp

New Member
well put fuzzy. Like he said just keep up the research and you'll have good results in no time. To many people think they are gonna grow a big ass pound from a couple plants, let me tell you it is not as easy as people think. indoors if you can get 2oz a plant your in good shape in my book. the point is, if you prepare correctly, you can get great results. It does'nt take a 20,000.00 investment, just putting the $ in the right areas is key. I have less than $600.00 invested in my setup, I do 10 plants in my hydro I built from vinyl fence posts. Check my journal in my sig to see it full. they got so heavy they fell over before my supports were up. lol.. But check my RCB hydro/NFT grow. it was great, but they got shorted on light when they fell over. lol. My bad.
 

first-tymer

New Member
Thanks Fuzzy and datrip for such quick and thorough responses! I have looked at the instructions for calibrating the portable digital ph meter and I am missing a key part of the equation. I dont have a 4-10 buffer... not even sure what that is. I have the 7.0ph solution but didnt know I needed the other and the closest available source I'm aware of for that type solution is a four hour round trip. I have tried the wet towel method before and it helped it one or two % but nothing drastic. I did however turn the A/C on and increased airflow slightly by opening things up as much as I could, this increased my humidity to between 31-34% during the light cycle and the temp decreased to between 80-84 during light cycle as well.
Although my temps went down a significant amount and now seem to be leveling off at a nice optimal number, my humidity still has to be raised a bit before I am content. I'm not too worried however because once my auto seeds get here I intend on having the entire waterfarm 8pack flowing at once and I believe the extra moisture from the 7 additional buckets all dripping at once should in theory raise the humidity a significant amount, but this has yet to be proven.
When I first posted earlier this morning I had only added the amount of nutrients suggested for germination and seedling growth, but a couple hrs ago i added more equaling what should be the amount for mild use/growth, and am considering adding more so I can get the nutrient level at what it is suggested for vegitative growth which is what stage I believe the plant is in now. I felt it may be too much of a shock to the plant if I would have just started with the veg stage level right when I switched it from soil to hydro, so I have just been slowly adding a little every few hours.
I didnt mention this in the post above but before I took the plant out of the soil and converted it to hydro it seemed to be feeling the slight effects of stress because the stem began turning redish purple in one area and the largest leaves began to turn yellow and curl at the tips and seeming was begingin to spread deeper into the two leaves, but that was in an organic miracle gro mix with no added nutrients under little to no light at all in comparison. Now that I have transplanted the plant to hydro, it seems as though the leaf decay has slowed to a halt and the stem appears to be going back to normal as well, new growth stemming from the top of the plant looks very healthy and appears to be growing faster as well.
Should I clip the slightly dead leaves or should I leave them and let nature seemingly take its course?
I would like to start a grow journal asap but two things stand in my way at the moment. The first is that I want to wait for my auto seeds to get here and begin with them rather this single unknown strain/plant I am experimenting with currently. The second factor preventing me from begining my first journal is the lack of a good camera, but I do have a crappy one on my phone that may have to work for now. I will take a couple and see how they turn out.
 

first-tymer

New Member
I have probably spent about $2,000 dollars getting this setup to where it is now. I have not priced what it may cost to supplement co2 to my tent yet because I am low on funds and am skeptical of the Boost Bucket and homemade systems due too lack off good information thus far. I know I need another fan preferably another 6"inline, but if I go back to the hydro store I got most of this from (4hr round trip drive) I am looking at spending another $100 dollars that....but this is something I will need eventually due to lack of incoming fresh air and I will want it to help keep the smell down when the time comes as well. I will need a carbon filter at that point too which at the store I believe is around $150 dollars. If my humidity theory is not correct or over corrects itself it my become necessary for me to purchase a humidifier or dehumidifier if not both at some point very soon.
I have heard bits and pieces about a new kit that has come out for the waterfarm 8 that is supposed to increase nutrient circulation/flow, but havent looked into it much yet because I have been busy researching other areas and havent yet run into any problems with the way it is now, but this may change.
The nutrients I have started with came with the waterfarm and are frown genhydro as well, it is a 3part series consisting of FloraBloom, FloraGrow, and FloraMicro. Probably should have mentioned that earlier when I was dicussing my nutrient ratio theory.
I bought a seperate liquid organic nutrient combo for the actual 8 pack setup and will explain what that is when it becomes necessary or if anyone really wants to know.
Using this setup the way I have it now plus the other seven waterfarm buckets with the auto-pounder from Autoseeds.com given the fact that I disguard the current experiment and replace with an auto-pound seed, make a few ventilation upgrades, and get all my levels to an optimum range (temp, humidity, ph, nutrients, etc...), I hope to yield atleast a pound total, n that is on the small side I would think.
The Auto-pounder strain is a high yield and high potency plant, according to the distributor and maker this strain can yield up to 450g/m2. If my math and conversions are then correct one square meter is equal to aproximately a little over 10 square feet. My tent is aproximately a 4'x4' which gives it about 16 square feet of floor space. That being said if I could create close to optimal conditions I should come up with bout 1.5 pounds total. I figure since this is my first grow ever and I may not have perfect co2 levels I should be able to pull a full pound from this first harvest. I have ideal lighting with the 600w hps although am having second thoughts bout not getting a metal hylide lamp for veg, am using a high yielding hydroponic setup, supposedly fool proof seeds, and I know what I need to do to ventilation.
Well think thats it for now, I will check back in a bit and will have a new onslaught of questions and theories I would like verified. Thanks a lot guys and gals!
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Go easy on the nutrients to much can cause nutrient burn on plants which could kill it if not careful !

Rule of thumb 1/4 strength for seedlings & for early veg for first couple of weeks.


Once ya got the rest of kit set up and all the water in system the humidity should raise between 10% to 20% so your theory is correct :thumb:
 

first-tymer

New Member
Fuzzy you are amazing! Thanks again for responding so quickly. I'm glad my theory is correct, if I can somehow keep the humidity within optimal range throughout intire grow without buying either a humidifying or dehumidifying unit that would help save me a bit of cash, but I hadnt priced them yet. I started with 1/4tsp per gallon, then increased them all to 1tsp per gallon, and am about to go to a 3-2-1 I believe. I think the leaves dying and stem color was actually due in a large part to a lack of nutrients, but I hear you when you say dont add too much, I will tread carefully from here on. I am a little worried about the stem strength though, they seem awefully skinny and long for a plant that is over a month old, but it didnt get much attention until recently so that may be to blame....
 

Fuzzy Duck

Well-Known Member
Stem stretch can be caused by light source.

  • Lights being to far away.
  • Using HPS for veg.

Straight foward HPS are predominately red spectrum, really cool for flowering but cause's stem elongation & stretched plants, its alright if you like plants like a bean pole :thumb:

Hence MH/ CFL around the 6500k blue spectrum are used for vegging, this helps keeps the plant short, compact & internode spacing tight.

Dual spectrum HPS is another popular option with a fair few companys now producing them - Grolux, sunmaster, Philips CMH to name a few.


Stretching does occur once put into flowering tho... a rough rule of thumb.

  • Indica double in size.
  • Sativa triple in size.



Another great source of information is viewing - Journals in Progress - 420 Magazineâ„¢

Favourite strains, grow methods etc etc & trials & tribulations of the first time grower leading to a wealth of info on many aspects.
 

first-tymer

New Member
Yeah, I was told by a friend that his buddy uses HPS all the way through flowering and even veg and that he always yields well, but throughout my learning process I have started to take his advise only if he is confirming something i already suspect. Unfortunitely I had read the info about the blue spectrum during veg and how MH put off more of that spectrum, but I had already made my initial large purchase and since then it had been hard for me to convince my significant other to agree on making anymore large purchases. She was game the day we went to buy most of the equipment but has become much more tight financially since then. I keep trying to convince her that if we spend another $500 dollars on our initial setup by buying another inline fan, carbon filter, Metal Hylide lamp/bulb, and supplemental co2, we would be increasing yield and it would easily pay for itself and more after our first yield, but she is still very apprehensive. I havent given up yet and either way I intent to buy these things eventually, but it may have to wait until I can finish the first harvest and she gets to see the benefit before I get there. Time will tell there, who knows maybe I catch her on a good day! haha
I would also like to buy a cover that filters dust particles in the air to put on the 6" air duct I have bringing air into the HPS lamp because I h. ave heard that dust buildup on the bulb and glass associated with the lamp can diminish the spectrum of light getting to the plant(s).
As far as the plant/conditions I am experimenting with goes, not much has changed over the last about 36hrs since I have transplanted it to hydro from soil, and put it under the 600w HPS, prior to that it was in some miracle grow organic potting soil receiving random compact florescent light combined with natural light coming in a few north facing windows. The larger leaves that were turning yellowish brown and curling down appear to have stopped dying but I check on it so often it is hard for me to tell. The newer growth on top seems to be doing okay, but I am yet to see the explosive growth I have been expecting. My theory about that is simply that the plant is adapting to the changes in light and growing medium, therefore it may take a few days to a week before I see the roots take and foliage growing faster. Still unsure what to do with the large half dead looking leaves... Should I clip them at the stem? Cut the dead portion off? Leave it?
I also need to go to walmart n buy some ph test strips until I can effectively calibrate my portable ph meter correctly.
I have added the nutrients recomended at the vegitative cycle, and am just monitoring my temperature and humidity at this point.
Airflow is a bit of an ongoing problem for me. Growing is legal where I am, but privacy is still a big deal because it is not uncommon for growers to have there homes broken into around here, and I live with my girlfriend so I am worried people may attempt to harm her if they were to find out about it. I hate stupid people! That being said I am trying to keep the windows covered well so they dont let any obviously bright light out but I am also trying to get air to come in and go out the same set of windows. I have them covered with a dark blanket right now and I have the tent facing away from the windows so when I open the front of the tent light isnt coming out toward the window. I have opened the windows slightly on the bottom to allow for a little bit of airflow througout the day but it doesnt seem like enough. I put a small window fan in on one side along the bottom, but I use it primarily just to hide the duct I have taped to one half, it is blowing out the warm air from the light. I only turn it on at night to help bring in a little more fresh air at night when the light is off. Badly need another inline fan to bring fresh air into the tent before I plant the auto seeds unless someone else sees something I dont.
 

datrippp

New Member
hey as an easy cheap fix you can hit any hardware store and grab like a 4" or 6" duct booster fan. I'm just using 2 of em, and have no problems with airflow. A better one would be nicer, but hell $25.00 is alot easier than $250.00 right now, and it fixes the issue. also I grabbed a 400w MH from home depot as a backup, and it got same results as my $70.00 mh from hydro store. and it was only $40.00. For scent issues, I made a simple carbon scrubber from a big peanut jug, filled with activated charcoal from pet store, mounted a duct booster to it, so it just recycles the air in my room. It's worked for 2 years now, lol.. Need to change the charcoal now though. lol. just some simple ideas for ya, that are cheap and usually available everywhere.. Fuzzy has been right on with his info to, if you can listen to guys like him, you'll be doing just fine in no time.
Keep a close eye on your fan leaf tips to, they will tell you almost immediately if they are getting to much nutes, as well as PH issues. I think alot of the key to it, is starting your nutes low at first, and just bumping it up each feeding by a small amount. You'll eventually find the perfect tds for your strain, and next grow will be better, since you will know what that strain likes for nutes. My buddy also made a sweet database for us, using just the microsoft access. it's been letting me track the exact nutrients used each grow, and I can tweak from there. it also allows me to see where any problems may have came from. Anyway, good luck, and keep growin.
Datrippp
 

first-tymer

New Member
That's some real good info datripp! Thanks a lot. I live in a relatively remote part of the country and although I live in a larger town than most of them in the area, it only has a couple hardware stores and two of the three I have already checked out... Unfortunitely it was the larger two of the three and although one is a chain (sutherlands), it still didnt even have any 6" plain metal flexible ducting! Let alone an inline fan or booster... It was #*^%@*^ ridiculous! I have to drive a little over an hour to get to a menards, lowes, or a home depot. I'm pretty discouraged with that aspect but I will make a trip outta town here in a few days to get what I need. I just revisisted the Hydroponic store I have been frequenting throughout this process and I got the ducting I need and I bought a small round fan from walmart yesterday I thing may fit in the ducting holes provided on the sides of my grolab tent. So I think I may see how that workis for the moment.
My little test plant I started in the single water farm unit still seems to be struggling, the larger leaves keep slowly turning yellow. First it will start on or in the veins closer to the stem and middle of the leaves and then the leaf will begin to droop and then the tips begin yellowing and it really starts looking sad.... I have tried moving it a little further from the light because I thought maybe it was heat stress, I slowed the drip on the unit cause it appeared some of the drops were splashing onto the leaves and thought that may have been causing it, I added a little distilled white vinegar to the water to try to lower the ph a bit cause i thought maybe the ph was a bit too high and may have been locking nutrients out of the plant. I realize I need to flush the plant if I really want to try to fix the ph problem correctly but I'm not really convinced that is the problem without a doubt and I am a little worried about flushing the plant right now cause I have never attempted it before and the plant is still really small. I tried to take pictures but I couldnt get them to turn out well at all so didnt bother trying to put them on here, but I cant afford a new camera at the moment... I have looked up pictures online of plant problems so i could try to narrow it down, but bud plants react in the same way to a number of problems so it didnt help too much just pushed me in the direction of heat stress, nutrient lockout due to ph levels, and over watering, but I dont think over watering is the problem cause I am using a hydroponic drip system on a clay pellet medium so I dont think it is even possible for me to over water it on this system, but I may have been given bad info there....
On a better note, i got my seeds from England today! I'm flippin excited thats why I made the trip to the hydro store. I got the guy there to calibrate my ph meter properly for me, and bought some rapid rooters from the guy. I got home and I put the seeds in the paper towels and as soon as they pop I am going to place them in the rapid rooters about half way down and let it get started in them as soon as it appears the roots have begun to take off I am gonna take them out of the little plastic planters and place them in the water farm units rapid rooter and all surrounded by clay pellets and let them go from there. Thats the best way to do it without ruining a bunch of expensive seeds that take a relatively long time to get to me. I was impressed by the way they packaged the seeds by concealing them in a cd case, but I may try to get the next batch from somewhere reputable either here in the U.S. or maybe Canada. I was told that european seed banks were the place to go though and due to the fact that I cant really afford to have these seeds not work I wanted to make sure they were 100% legit. Lets hope I made the right move there. Kinda wish I would have gotten auto big bang seeds instead of the auto pounder seeds because they seem to yield about the same and I have found people that have tried the big bang strain but I have not founf a single report of anyone using these auto pounders, but we shall see...
I also started my mushroom project today as well because my spores came the same day! I got Treasure Island, Ecuador, Mazatapec, and Mestizo. Gonna innoculate them in rye seed bags I ordered and recieved already. Then when I see them begining to spawn in the bags, I will mix coco coir bricks and vermiculite with boiling water, let it sit for a couple hours so it thickens and gets soaked up, then you spread the mixture out in a sterile rubbermaid tote then you make sure it is the correct temperature then you take the bag of rye with the spawning spores break it up a bit and spread it over the layer of mixture that was placed in the tote. Then wearing sterile latex gloves mix all the stuff in the tube really well taking the leftover mixture over top of the stuff already in the tub. After that you put the lid on the tote wraping the entire thing with a couple black plastic trash bags to keep all of the light out and help hold in moisture. Let sit in a dark temperature regulated area between 70-80 degrees and check in ten days to see if they are taking to the mixture. They should have just started poping through the last layer of vermiculite and coco coir added to the top of the spores and other mixture. You then remove the bags from around the tote and put holes in the top of the tote so it begin getting air, but you want to prevent and sort of breeze from getting in the tote, you want the air as still as possible. At this point you want to introduce an ambient light source to start fruiting maintaining the same temperature and making sure the mixture in the tote stays moist but not wet. To do this you are to mist it with a spray bottle two or three times throughout the day. Remember mushrooms are 3/4 water so keeping moisture in the tote is important. During this process it is important to stay as sanitary as possible to prevent contamination. After that just wait a couple more weeks and you should be done.
Kind of a new deal for me, but my girlfriend has done it in the past and has a background in the medical field, so she had access to sterile supplies and knows how important that part of the process is. Should be fun and interesting... I plan on using some of the profit from the fungus to help fund some improvements to the other grow op too....
 

first-tymer

New Member
I also intend on trying to make one of those carbon scrubbers. Can you send me a little more detailed information/instructions on how to make that. I prefer to make things using detailed instructions, if I try to figure it out for myself chances are I will either mess it up a bunch of times before I get it right, or I will get incredibly frustrated and give up after a couple hours. But I do need to figure out how to illiminate the smell pretty soon, so the help would be appreciated. It is hard for me to picture how these things work exactly because I have never seen one in working order. I have been in a couple grow rooms throughout my days, but never had the luxury of frequenting one or helping anyone with theres so I'm kinda like a blind man in many ways when it comes to some of this stuff. I know how most of it works in theory, but not in reality. Cant wait to finish this first harvest!
 

datrippp

New Member
Just find youa big jug, any jug will be fine really, I like em with about a 4" to 6" opening at top. drill lots of 1/4" holes, fill with activated charcoal, and wrap with basic furnace filte. mount fan on top pulling air through, and your good to go..
 
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