Newbie Grower, Carmen Auto x Diva, Outdoors

[CBDMed]

Hi all. I am a newbie grower who recently moved to Colombia. I have a ton of reading to do, and am trying to catch up (with very limited time). If my questions are answered in some thread, please just point me at it, but I do seem to have an immediate problem I could really use help with. Thank you all very much for your help (in advance).

I hope I will give the needed information. If you need any more / other information, please just ask.

Me: I grew photoperiods a few times indoor in the States, but long story short, the community guard here told me that the best place to grow is on the roof, and it is a good idea to follow advice here. So, I built a hoop tunnel on the roof, and am growing there. Only, it has to be autos because of some strong night security lights (so it never really gets dark on the roof).
It was winter here, so last week was maybe highs of 70F, lows of 55F.
I was watering wrong before, but it had NO water for a month, and then light watering of the spreader roots for the last week (thanks to Em).

I have been trying to use banana peel tea since last week (since we are in bloom).
Em and @Azimuth want me to learn about fermented teas, but that is a ways away.
I just found access to bottled nutes, but they are expensive here!
I just found good soil last week (plus the components to make supersoil---hooray!), but I did not know where to get good potting soil for my first grow, and the locals encouraged me to use the local soil for my potting soil, so I did (and now I learn that it is not a good soil for pots. Rather, it is a lumpy black clay).
Long story short, I made my own potting soil, which I did not open up nearly enough. The soil is maybe 1/3 black soil (clay), and then the other 2/3 is maybe equal parts of coco coir, perlite, rice hulls, and worm castings, with a little rock dust and egg shell powder mixed in (so it is heavy).
@Azimuth helped me to fix the soil mix for future grows, but in this grow I am just trying to salvage what I can of the damage I caused by overwatering seeds in a large pot.

I also messed up because I put auto seeds in big pots, and then overwatered, so the plants ended up all stunted.
I got pointed toward @Sense Emilia's excellent post about watering autos in large containers, and she is helping me to try to save what I can.
The soil finally dried out about 2 weeks ago, and I have been following Emmie's advice in doing shallow waterings far from the stem, trying to correct the overwatering situation.

Last week, the fan leaves on this girl all turned yellow, and withered. I had never seen that before, but since this is my first batch of autos, and this is my first auto, I was wondering if that is just an auto's way of finishing up, so I trimmed the fan leaves, and kept on going.
Then a lot of the small fans around the buds also started to wither.
That was last week.

Just today I noticed a branch that had turned soft brown, and some other buds that were turning soft brown.
At first I just trimmed the withered parts, but then I thought I should just harvest, to protect the rest of the crop.
You can see where the branch is withered halfway to the main stem.

Then I noticed some other buds withering.

And then I saw more withering, close to the stalk.

Here is the whole plant before I cut it.

And here is after I cut it down.

I am mildly autistic, so I need CBD, so the seeds are Delicious Seeds' Auto Blue Ace,
Sexo: Feminized
Lineage: Carmen Auto X Diva
Genotype: INDICA AUTO CBD
Grow Metod: Indoor/outdoor
Flowering time: 60-65 days from seed to harvest
Yield: 400-500gr m2 indoor/50-100 gr/pl outdoor
Taste: Sweet citric fruit
Smell; High
Effect: Medicinal
Ratio Thc/Cbd: 1:2
CBD: 8-16%
Medicinal Value: Very High
Irrigation tolerance: High

There were originally 8 plants. I got eaten, and another wilted over in the seedling stage (probably from my earlier overwatering). Now there are 6 (except I just cut this one down).
They are 5 gallon soft pots, with a fairly heavy homemade soil that has still way too much clay.
It was coming up on its final stages (except I just cut it down).

It is an outdoor grow. I have had enough pests to where I want to go back to growing indoors, but that cannot happen until I move, so I need to keep going with this.
I am using a mix of Neem oil and Natural dish soap (I could not find organic) for pest control.

Thank you very much for your help!
I will try to remember the sponsors when it comes time to buy again.
If there is anything I forgot, or if you need more information, please ask!
Thank you!

 

[Azimuth]

el g,

Sorry to hear (and see) your troubles. I've not grown auto's so don't really know how they finish up, but the reaction you are seeing there does not look proper, at least to me. Perhaps @Jon @StoneOtter @Bill284 @InTheShed might have some thoughts.

Neem is not recommended for plants in flower as it can leave a really nasty taste on the buds. Soaps, like Safer's Soap can be used right up until harvest. They are sprayed on, left to dry and then rinsed off. I know many are using some of the sponsor's products in their grows and seem pleased with the results.

Did something significant change in the week or so before you started noticing the decline? Maybe up-potting, or beginning the use of Neem or something else? Did you start using the bottled nutes maybe? I would think it is a root issue or maybe something in the soil that is causing the problems. You're not growing in straight clay as you mentioned perlite and rice hulls so there should be some drainage although the coco and clay will both hold onto a lot of water. Clay brings some minerals to the mix so can add good stuff in there but I think 1/3 of the total is way too much.

But that doesn't help you right now. If you can find some worms and worm castings to add that could potentially help as the worms would tunnel around and help with aeration and adding worm castings would help jump start some microbial activity that would also help open up the soil. Although, depending on what kind of bottled nutes you are talking about, those could introduce other issues as many bottled nutes are salt based and will eventually mak the soil inhospitable to the organics and make you dependent on them going forward.

 

[Azimuth]

Also, can you descibe your banana peel tea? What is the recipe, how do you make it, how strong is it when you use it, how do you decide it is done, etc.

If that was proximate to the start of your issues that could be a culprit to look closer at.

 

[bluter]

back to the drawing board. there's nothing left to save.
hopefully the others are savable.

the tea wasn't the issue. just looks like far too little far too late. there were other nute issues a banana tea won't get anywhere near to helping.

they got as far as they could in the soil and stress triggered. also it looks like they were having a super tough time with nutrients. autos will trigger if the roots encounter difficulty, or the plant can't pull enough nutes from the soil.

if you remain outdoor you'll need to solve the soil / media issue, and address the access to nutes unless you build a soil. you won't be able to continue this way.

i'd look up the coots mix, or dig through a few organic soil grow journals for the soil recipes some of the board members use. then it's a matter of sourcing the components, mixing, and 'cooking' it for a couple months until it is ready to use. at which point you will have a water only grow and only need to worry about pests.

other than that it would be good to know what you do have readily available in your marketplace.

 

[Azimuth]

And Bluter grows some spectacular plants (and auto's I think) in straight perlite in a hempy set-up. That's not organic, but might solve your grow mix issue if you can source the nutes for it.

 

[CBDMed]

@Azimuth , thanks again. And thanks for calling for re-inforcements (haha).

Thanks for your consolations. The troubles shall pass. I am learning a ton about soils, watering, fertilizers, etc., and I am sure it will pay off in the future, so right now we just have to weather the storm, and learn what we can.

I have been using the Neem with Natural Soap @ x1 weekly since the start of the grow (sometimes x2 weekly, if I noticed some tiny white flies, or whatever).
The only thing that is new is that starting last week I started following Emilia's new watering advice of watering the top 3" of soil away from the stem (at the edge of the pot) to help the spreader roots grow out.
I also have been using banana peel tea with a splash of Orca myco (maybe 1/4 teaspoon).

The banana peel tea is just either banana or plantain (hard bananas) boiled in water for 20 minutes, let cool, and then tucked in the fridge. And then I warm it up on the stove to where it is cool (not cold, yet not lukewarm) before I water.
I am using the banana peel tea on the other girls, and they seem fine.
Here is the best looking one. (And she would be a LOT bigger if I had not almost drowned her.)

I want to make the fermented teas as I get time to learn, but for now I don't have any.
I will discontinue the Neem on the plants with buds.
I will try to find Safer Soap.
The store I found last week has some other anti-bug products, so I can search the pages to see if they have organic options.
They also have some "vegan" organic nutes, which I may get (but I don't have them now).

I have only used organic components in this grow.
(I gave away my chemical fertilizer pellets.)

 

[CBDMed]

back to the drawing board. there's nothing left to save.
hopefully the others are savable.

the tea wasn't the issue. just looks like far too little far too late. there were other nute issues a banana tea won't get anywhere near to helping.

they got as far as they could in the soil and stress triggered. also it looks like they were having a super tough time with nutrients. autos will trigger if the roots encounter difficulty, or the plant can't pull enough nutes from the soil.

if you remain outdoor you'll need to solve the soil / media issue, and address the access to nutes unless you build a soil. you won't be able to continue this way.

i'd look up the coots mix, or dig through a few organic soil grow journals for the soil recipes some of the board members use. then it's a matter of sourcing the components, mixing, and 'cooking' it for a couple months until it is ready to use. at which point you will have a water only grow and only need to worry about pests.

other than that it would be good to know what you do have readily available in your marketplace.

Thanks, Bluter.
@Azimuth helped me get my soil mix right. I think this last batch will work. It is basically 1/4 clay, 1/4 fine perlite, 1/4 coco coir, and 1/4 compost mix (3 parts compost, 1 part worm compost); plus fine eggshell powder, plus rock dust, plus a little rice hulls.

Plus, I found the components to Subcool's Supersoil in Bogota, and ordered the components last week, and will compost them when they get here. So future grows should go a lot better.

Right now I was just trying to find out if I need to get anything for anti-fungus, anti-blight, etc., or if I should just chop this one plant, and hope the rest of the crop does not catch anything.
So far the other plants look good.

I appreciate any and all advice. Thank you.

 

[Azimuth]

As bluter implied, you need something other than just the banana peels to provide the broad mix of nutrients that the plants need.

 

[bluter]

do a search for hydro grow shops in your area.

I think this last batch will work. It is basically 1/4 clay, 1/4 fine perlite, 1/4 coco coir, and 1/4 compost mix (3 parts compost, 1 part worm compost); plus fine eggshell powder, plus rock dust, plus a little rice hulls.

that won't quite cut it. the soil is still too heavy by the looks. it's not letting the roots get oxygen and the plant is suffocating.

Plus, I found the components to Subcool's Supersoil in Bogota, and ordered the components last week, and will compost them when they get here. So future grows should go a lot better.

that's the ticket. i'd look forward and focus on getting that set up.

Right now I was just trying to find out if I need to get anything for anti-fungus, anti-blight, etc., or if I should just chop this one plant, and hope the rest of the crop does not catch anything.
So far the other plants look good.

none of that is gonna matter. i see media / nute issues. i'm not really seeing anything to do with disease or pest problems.

 

[CBDMed]

other than that it would be good to know what you do have readily available in your marketplace.

Here is the grow shop I found in Bogotá.
This is a semi-premium pre-mix soil that I bought 8 bags of.

Bulto Sustrato 70 Litros Mezcla Bendita Sea - Benditaseagrowshop.com

Bulto Sustrato 70 Litros Mezcla Bendita Sea Bulto de sustrato preparado para cualquier tipo de plantas 100 Litros. All Mix Mezcla de diferentes sustratos para que las plantas crezcan sanas y fuertes.

benditaseagrowshop.com

It has:
Black Earth
Coconut fiber
Blonde Peat
Earthworm humus
perlite
Mycorrhizae
Bat Guano
trichoderma
dolomite lime
mammoth

I was also able to find all of the components for Subcool's Supersoil, and ordered them. I will compost them when they get here.

Here is their page for anti-pest, insecticide, etc.

Here is their page for anti-fungal.

(I don't know if you read Spanish. Google Translate makes a plug-in that will let you translate the whole page all at once. Maybe some others make translator plugins? I don't know.)

Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

As bluter implied, you need something other than just the banana peels to provide the broad mix of nutrients that the plants need.

Yes, I understand. I think you helped me with that in the other thread.

I can order these "vegan nutes", but they will take a week to get here.
They are about $75 for two one-liter bottles.

I would prefer to go with reduced yields and stay all-organic, if I can.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[CBDMed]

that's the ticket. i'd look forward and focus on getting that set up.

none of that is gonna matter. i see media / nute issues. i'm not really seeing anything to do with disease or pest problems.

Yeah, ok. Thanks.
That is also how I kind of see it.
@Azimuth helped me to get my soil mix straight, AND I can also order pre-mix semi-premium from the grow shop, and doctor it up.
So if I can work it, I hope the next grow will either be with this pre-mix soil (or fixed up soil) and the vegan nutes, and then the grow after that will be Subcool's Supersoil and much better soil.

Ok, thanks!
So I will keep working Emmie's watering advice, we will get what we can, and move forward.
Thank you very much.

 

[Azimuth]

that won't quite cut it. the soil is still too heavy by the looks. it's not letting the roots get oxygen and the plant is suffocating.

Agreed. 1/4 clay is way too much. For example, in the Coot's Mix the rock dust mineral component is added at the rate of about 4 tablespoons per gallon. That's about 1.5% of the volume. You're saying you are using 25% and it's clay which has particles that lay flat against each other making things dense. That can be resolved with enough compost, humus, sand, or other aeration, but the clay should be a compliment to the base soil, not a large part of it.

 

[CBDMed]

Agreed. 1/4 clay is way too much. For example, in the Coot's Mix the rock dust mineral component is added at the rate of about 4 tablespoons per gallon. That's about 1.5% of the volume. You're saying you are using 25% and it's clay which has particles that lay flat against each other making things dense. That can be resolved with enough compost, humus, sand, or other aeration, but the clay should be a compliment to the base soil, not a large part of it.

Yeah, and I am thinking I want to rent a cement mixer when I do that!

Thanks for helping me to understand the soils, and the need to feed the soil (not the plant).

 

[Azimuth]

Here's a good link from Build-A-Soil on how to build three different mixes from scratch. They use different ratios of the ingredients but the article also gives some background on what to consider when you build your own.

 

[CBDMed]

Thank you! And thank you for your explanation of what clay is. That was very helpful!
I have to run right now, but I will add this to the reading list.

 

[bluter]

It has:
Black Earth
Coconut fiber
Blonde Peat
Earthworm humus
perlite
Mycorrhizae
Bat Guano
trichoderma
dolomite lime
mammoth

that looks good to start. i'm guessing you may need to feed with that soil in flower. i see they have other alternatives as well if you want to to a bottle feed or other nutrient grow.

 

[Bill284]

el g,

Sorry to hear (and see) your troubles. I've not grown auto's so don't really know how they finish up, but the reaction you are seeing there does not look proper, at least to me. Perhaps @Jon @StoneOtter @Bill284 @InTheShed might have some thoughts.

Neem is not recommended for plants in flower as it can leave a really nasty taste on the buds. Soaps, like Safer's Soap can be used right up until harvest. They are sprayed on, left to dry and then rinsed off. I know many are using some of the sponsor's products in their grows and seem pleased with the results.

Did something significant change in the week or so before you started noticing the decline? Maybe up-potting, or beginning the use of Neem or something else? Did you start using the bottled nutes maybe? I would think it is a root issue or maybe something in the soil that is causing the problems. You're not growing in straight clay as you mentioned perlite and rice hulls so there should be some drainage although the coco and clay will both hold onto a lot of water. Clay brings some minerals to the mix so can add good stuff in there but I think 1/3 of the total is way too much.

But that doesn't help you right now. If you can find some worms and worm castings to add that could potentially help as the worms would tunnel around and help with aeration and adding worm castings would help jump start some microbial activity that would also help open up the soil. Although, depending on what kind of bottled nutes you are talking about, those could introduce other issues as many bottled nutes are salt based and will eventually mak the soil inhospitable to the organics and make you dependent on them going forward.

Looks like roots have passed away. xxx
She isn't going to improve sorry.
If there is any buds not rotten yet grab them.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Azimuth]

Looks like roots have passed away. xxx

Would be helpful if you could show a picture of the roots so we could see the structure. That would confirm the suspicions.

 

[CBDMed]

that looks good to start. i'm guessing you may need to feed with that soil in flower. i see they have other alternatives as well if you want to to a bottle feed or other nutrient grow.

Bluter, thanks.
Yes, I understand I will have to give this next batch something more in flower.
If I am understanding you correctly, is there a better alternative than the Vegan bottled nutes?
Thanks.