Nute burn when switching to flower, DWC

[damname]

Hey all!

Im having issues after switching my girls to flower mode 12/12 and attempting a transition mix for my nutes. My plants
dont seem to be tolerating BLOOM very well at all. Any time i go above 1.5ml/gal of bloom, my plants start showing signs
of nute burn. About a week after flowering and switching to a 2-3-3 mix from 4-3-1, im getting yellow tips slowly turning
brown, browning on the serrations/side of the leafs, leafs twisting, looking very dry and then crumbling and falling off.
Way more severe on the older growth and halfway up the plant. The leafs at the top of the plant, tips have turned yellow and
are slowly turning brown. Cant really see that in the pics though....

So i changed the water and adjusted the mix to 3-3-1.5 and defoliated all the death. They are recovering..... and starting to bud.

How do i know its the bloom? When i started the grow, i was using a 2-2-2 mix. The plants were growing fine but always looked
a bit droopy and had some clawing and tacoing going on. In general the plants looked sickly to me. So i switched to a new mix
of 4-3-1 and the plants quickly recovered and exploded in growth. There were no sings of any distress until i changed the mix for
flowering. Roots like great! I always adjust the ph of each new gallon of of mix added to the res. I also check the ph in the res
every couple days. No real ph adjustments needed in the res.

Im headed to the local hydro shop to get more bloom hoping its just a bad bottle. I hear i need alot more bloom in my mix at
this stage...so im confused as to why my plants wont tolerate higher levels of it.

Any insight will help

strain - durban poison from ck sativa
method - DWC, 5 gal buckets, rockwool and clay pebbles
stage - flower 3 weeks in
plants - 2
local- 4x4 tent
weather- 24c air, 75f water (hydroguard) rh 50%ish all controlled, breezy
light - mars hydro led 1000 watt
bubbles - 2 large discs per bucket with tons of bubbles
nutes - GMB, calimagic, hydroguard, ph up and down
mix - veg was 4-3-1, 1-3-3 transition (plants got sick), currently flowing @ 3-3-1.5, 3ml/gal calimag, 2ml/gal hydroguard
ph - area of 5.5 -6 using test kit. piss yellow toward orange is where ive been keeping it.

 

[r0am1ng st0ner]

are you checking ppm's? or ec, the bloom might be stronger

 

[damname]

i have not checked ec lately. still learning as this is my first grow. i did buy a new bottle of bloom and a ph-80 meter today locally. i do have an ec meter. ill check it in a bit.

 

[bluter]

looks like all kinds of stuff to me.

if hydro and not spot on with ph explains a bit.

 

[damname]

its not spot on. i was using ph test kit. got the new ph meter soaking right now. will cal and test it in a few hours.

what other potential issues do you see?

 

[bluter]

fix the ph first.. suspect the rest will mostly melt away.

ph issues present as other stuff all the time. ph is crucial in all hydro apps, but more so in dwc and rdwc, because the media is the definition of a neutral or blank slate.

everything you do in hydro has a direct and immediate effect. far more so than any soil based media. it is both easier to cause, and correct problems. the latter if you have a handle. the former if not.

 

[damname]

gotcha! will report back with results tonight.

 

[damname]

plant 1 - ph 5.6, ppm 575
plant 2 - ph 5.3 ppm 560

changed water 2 days ago mix 3-3-1.5

 

[GoogleGenie]

Hey @damname

I'd suggest bumping your PH up a bit as that's a little low. The ideal for Hydro is 5.8 - 6.2. I try to keep it between 5.8-6.0 in DWC.

Your PPMs seem spot on. And other than this issue, your plants look nice and healthy. Try to keep your PPMs low, and increase if the plant asks for it. Less is more in DWC in my experience.

I also grow DWC, feel free to check out my journal

 

[damname]

bumped up the bloom to 2.5ml and ph to 6.1 today.

ill check out yer journal

 

[Bigjake8]

Do I understand that in transition you drop the grow to 1 from 4 in veg then take it back to 3 in flower i think that is where your trouble starts it did for me anyhow and never fully recovered they need the nitrogen for transition then once you get flowers start dropping it to where your at now

I run AN with cal mag but I put pk boost at week 3 then Kool bloom week 5 and pretty happy with it

 

[damname]

Hey @damname

I'd suggest bumping your PH up a bit as that's a little low. The ideal for Hydro is 5.8 - 6.2. I try to keep it between 5.8-6.0 in DWC.

Your PPMs seem spot on. And other than this issue, your plants look nice and healthy. Try to keep your PPMs low, and increase if the plant asks for it. Less is more in DWC in my experience.

I also grow DWC, feel free to check out my journal

i dont really have the experience to know when the plant asks for more. im brand new to this hehe. how do i know if the plant is asking for more? are we talking about more bloom?

right now im at 6.1 ph in the res, 60% rh and my feed mix is 2-2-2.5 with a ppm of 600

 

[damname]

Do I understand that in transition you drop the grow to 1 from 4 in veg then take it back to 3 in flower i think that is where your trouble starts it did for me anyhow and never fully recovered they need the nitrogen for transition then once you get flowers start dropping it to where your at now

I run AN with cal mag but I put pk boost at week 3 then Kool bloom week 5 and pretty happy with it

yes. i changed to 12/12 and 1 week later changed the noots from 4-3-1 to 1-3-3.

white hairs showed up the day i posted this.

i still have entire small branches that all the leaves are wilted from the bottom of the plant. i think these
are leftovers i couldnt reach when clipping all the death. wondering if i should remove the entire branch?

so i have white hairs now.... what should the correct mix be at this stage and stages to come?

 

[GoogleGenie]

i dont really have the experience to know when the plant asks for more. im brand new to this hehe. how do i know if the plant is asking for more? are we talking about more bloom?

right now im at 6.1 ph in the res, 60% rh and my feed mix is 2-2-2.5 with a ppm of 600

Good question @damname - if the EC/PPM drops in your bucket/system, it would imply that the plant is eating more nutrients, that it is drinking water - thereby removing nutrients from the nutrient solution, and leaving more water - causing the EC/PPM to decrease. Personally, i always tend to feed on the light side. I'd rather the EC drop and the plant tell me it wants more, than assume it does.

 

[Bigjake8]

so i have white hairs now.... what should the correct mix be at this stage and stages to come?

Thats the million dollar question right there

I don't run GH so I can't answer so stick to their schedule I guess your base nutes are just that base its the add on where it gets crazy

Your ppm are close to where I run at that stage and my super mega snake oil stuff I add in to sleep better from week 5 on only comes out to 1000 ppm

Less is more you like the other said watch your ppm drop and know they're eating than to over do and get lockout

 

[damname]

i started a different thread thinking that i had a new problem, in a way i do and dont. i do now see that
my issues are related to the initial issue i think...

plant 1 - ph falling, ppm rising, water falling. shes not eating but drinking ok and the water is becoming more
acidic. the ppms are rising because of concentration. i diluted the water and adjusted ph. a day later shes still
not eating and ph fell again by 0.4. Again i diluted the res and adjusted ph. the leaves are several shades darker than
plant 2 and the hairs at the bud sites are very white.

plant 2 - ph falling, ppm falling, water falling. shes eating and drinking but its becoming more acidic in the res.
maybe this indicates too much of one of the 3 nutes? she stands taller than plant 1 by 5 inches and is a lighter
shade of green. the hairs at the sites are more of a greenish white color.

according to this chart i saw, i have a acid rain condition that needs to be fixed. however, according to other posts i have
read, im probably giving plant 1 too many nutes (possibly nitrogen), so its only drinking water and the nutes are becoming concentrated and acidic.

this all started when i added 1 gallon to each plant of the new transition mix. i was running 4-3-1. each number is ml/gal of gro micro bloom through veg and changed to 3-3-1.5 for transition. both plants became nute burnt. i changed the water and clipped the death and when they started looking better i added a new gallon of 3-3-2.5. now plant 1 looks as if it has a nitrogen toxicity and has lockout. plant 2 seems to be handling it ok but its also a bigger plant.

i think i need to know exactly what ratio to feed per gallon but i dont have the experience yet. i had a mentor who
promised to see me through this but when his way didnt go according to plan....he went dark. his way works for him
in his environment. it did not work for me in mine. grow tent vs. open room, well water vs. distilled ect. so he went silent after late seedling/early veg. i was then left to make sense of multiple contradicting guides and videos. truth is im confused and panicked and i dont know what im doing.

 

[GoogleGenie]

i started a different thread thinking that i had a new problem, in a way i do and dont. i do now see that
my issues are related to the initial issue i think...

plant 1 - ph falling, ppm rising, water falling. shes not eating but drinking ok and the water is becoming more
acidic. the ppms are rising because of concentration. i diluted the water and adjusted ph. a day later shes still
not eating and ph fell again by 0.4. Again i diluted the res and adjusted ph. the leaves are several shades darker than
plant 2 and the hairs at the bud sites are very white.

plant 2 - ph falling, ppm falling, water falling. shes eating and drinking but its becoming more acidic in the res.
maybe this indicates too much of one of the 3 nutes? she stands taller than plant 1 by 5 inches and is a lighter
shade of green. the hairs at the sites are more of a greenish white color.

according to this chart i saw, i have a acid rain condition that needs to be fixed. however, according to other posts i have
read, im probably giving plant 1 too many nutes (possibly nitrogen), so its only drinking water and the nutes are becoming concentrated and acidic.

this all started when i added 1 gallon to each plant of the new transition mix. i was running 4-3-1. each number is ml/gal of gro micro bloom through veg and changed to 3-3-1.5 for transition. both plants became nute burnt. i changed the water and clipped the death and when they started looking better i added a new gallon of 3-3-2.5. now plant 1 looks as if it has a nitrogen toxicity and has lockout. plant 2 seems to be handling it ok but its also a bigger plant.

i think i need to know exactly what ratio to feed per gallon but i dont have the experience yet. i had a mentor who
promised to see me through this but when his way didnt go according to plan....he went dark. his way works for him
in his environment. it did not work for me in mine. grow tent vs. open room, well water vs. distilled ect. so he went silent after late seedling/early veg. i was then left to make sense of multiple contradicting guides and videos. truth is im confused and panicked and i dont know what im doing.

Hey @damname, first off, don't panic this can be fixed and we're here to help

Often, when a plant has been fed excessively, it will leech nutrient back into your res, causing some crazy swings. How long this happens usually depends on for how long and how much they have been over fertilised. This is probably because it was taking up nutrient it didnt need, with the water that it did. Let her chuck her nutrients back into the res. Feed light, and stay on top of PH and things will soon stabilise.

Also, when growing under LED (are you?) you need to be more mindful of RH. If its too low, the plants can start to show signs of nuteburn if the nutrient strength is too strong. Another reason to feed light. If you cant control your RH or bump it up, just keep the feeds as light as possible.

If the swings you are seeing are extreme. I would suggest swapping out your res with plain water. Let her dump everything, once it stabilises, swap it out for a weak nutrient solution, and keep it simple. Within a few days things should have stabilised. Less is more in DWC, especially when growing under LED

 

[GoogleGenie]

In terms of what to feed. Maybe stick to the same proportions but just reduce the amounts so you end up with a lower strength solution.

Are the proportions you are using manufacturer recommended or a custom recipe?
Which nutrient line are you using? (apologies to make you repeat yourself)

 

[damname]

ty for the reply. im using led but i keep the rh at about 60%. i had it at 50% when i switched to flower.
im using a custom recipe by the dude that was helping me and split. at time i was flowering i was feeding 4-3-1 GH gro micro bloom in ml/gal. when i flowered them i didnt change the res and just started the transition recipe i found somewhere on the net of 2-3-3 i think. if i am reading the bottles correctly, i should be feeding them two or three times that amount.

tonight im changing the water again. this time im doing straight ph balanced distilled water for 24 hours i guess. both plants are not feeding now... after that i will see what they do.

i need to find a good recipe for the stage their in now. i was thinking 1-1-2.5 for when i start adding nutes again. this is feeding lite right? or is that too heavy? after that i dunno what concentrations i should use other than more bloom less other nutes.

 

[GoogleGenie]

ty for the reply. im using led but i keep the rh at about 60%. i had it at 50% when i switched to flower.
im using a custom recipe by the dude that was helping me and split. at time i was flowering i was feeding 4-3-1 GH gro micro bloom in ml/gal. when i flowered them i didnt change the res and just started the transition recipe i found somewhere on the net of 2-3-3 i think. if i am reading the bottles correctly, i should be feeding them two or three times that amount.

I'm afraid I don't use a 3 part nutrient anymore. When i did i followed the GH feeding schedule for the ratios. I'd suggest to either go with what GH suggest, otherwise I know some people use the Lucas Formula with GH products. Might be worth looking into that.

tonight im changing the water again. this time im doing straight ph balanced distilled water for 24 hours i guess. both plants are not feeding now... after that i will see what they do.

i need to find a good recipe for the stage their in now. i was thinking 1-1-2.5 for when i start adding nutes again. this is feeding lite right? or is that too heavy? after that i dunno what concentrations i should use other than more bloom less other nutes.

To be honest, i use the manufacturer guidance to follow the correct ratios of the stuff, but I determine the strength by EC/TDS/PPM. I make up a batch usually following 1/2 the recommended strength, but stick to the proportions they (or the regime you follow) recommends. This might mean putting a batch together, and then diluting it down to get to your desired EC.

If you followed the supplier guidance to the letter, you would probably end up with a solution of around 2ec (at full strength), if you want it at 1.0ec, just add water until you get there.

If you're really struggling with the 3 part, it might be worth investing in a good quality, ph buffered 2 part, or even a 1 part. I currently use Canna Aqua Vega/Flores 2 part. If you stick with the 3 part, keep it simple