Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

Thread starter #1
Hello guys,
Newbie grower here, and in need of some help.
This is my first ever attempt at growing my meds, and a newb on this forum as well.


4'x4' tent (thick 1860D material) 6.8' tall
1 x 315 CMH with Phillips Agro bulb
1 x Morsen COB full spectrum LED (two cobs) for support light
120CFM Panasonic inline with 4x20" carbon scrubber
5 gallon fabric pots
Medium: Coco Coir
All Nutrients by canna: Coco A+B, Canazym, Bio Rhizotonic, Canna Boost
Water: tap (ppm between 135 and 210)
Feeding on light cycle (currently up to 800ppm)
Temp - 28-29C during light cycle / 20-21C during dark
Humidity: 30-35% light / 45-48% dark
Currently on the lower end of the RH as it's cold in Canada and furnace brings dryer air into the environment

Plants:
GG4 feminized (seeds from Canuk Seeds Canada)
seed in water on Oct-28
Oct-31 in coco puck
Transplanted in 5 gallon Nov-20
Total veg time so far - 6 weeks and 4 days

Jack 47 (2 plants) (Sweet Seeds)
Seed in water Nov-15
Nov-16 in coco pucks
Transplanted in 5 gallon Dec-06
Total veg time so far - 4 weeks and 4 days

Three days ago my plants looked fairly healthy, though I noticed some light burn on the tips of the larger leafs.
So I prepared 10 liters of water only, and PH'd it down to 5.9, so I can feed them the next couple of days without any nutes and flush any excess.

I also noticed a small fruit fly in my tent, so I made a mix of neem oil, soap and warm water to spray down the plants. Once the light came in, I sprayed over under, and I gave the GG4 3 liters of water (3/4 gallon) and the 2 liters (half a gallon) to each Jack47

After 12 hours of light I went to check on them, and they looked all curled up and I can see more burn on some leafs. I wonder if this is nutes burn, or perhaps the soap/neem oil dried out the leafs?

The smaller plants (Jack 47) seem to be taking better to the situation, as their larger leafs are pointed up towards the light, though the smaller ones are seemingly stressed.

This is photo taken on Dec-14


And here are some photos from this morning:













Colas are looking nice and strong on all 4 plants, they are certainly more stocky and bushy, than tall. Light is 80cm away from the plants at least.


The GG4 is now up to 18" height (45cm) and I haven't touched it.
The two Jack47's are half the sized, as they were started 15 days later, and I've also topped one and fimmed the other one. At this point how long before I switch them to 12/12

Any help will be greatly appreciated, thank you!
 

The Germinator

Well-Known Member
Nute or light burn from neem oil/soap spray

I'd switch to 12/12 now if it were me.
Also I would not have sprayed my plants with neem for gnats or fruit flys. I would just mix neem in water and use it to water the soil. Flying ones are harmless. It's the larvae in the soil that eat the roots.
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

How come the plant in front has all that weird shriveled up undergrowth? What's goin on with that? Your leaves should be pointing straight out or up towards the light. The droop is from too much water or too much nitrogen.
 
Thread starter #4
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

Thanks Germinator, I sprayed with neem/soap/warm water on the leafs last night, and the curling up of the leafs appeared this morning... I will definitely spray the soil (coco) as well, I'm just worried about this burn on the leafs and whether it was from the heat of the lamp evaporating the neem solution, or it was from nutes.

I was also thinking on switching to 12/12 already, thanks for the tip!
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray



This is overwatering or nitrogen toxicity. The leaves that are red aren't good signs. They need to look like the leaves that are blue. I wouldn't flower until your plant looks healthy.
 
Thread starter #6
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

How come the plant in front has all that weird shriveled up undergrowth? What's goin on with that? Your leaves should be pointing straight out or up towards the light. The droop is from too much water or too much nitrogen.
I am thinking over watering, because I gave it 3/4 of gallon just water last night, and they were looking fine and spread out before watering.
My feed is based on "light" schedule from the canna website.

I currently do 25ml of A+B each on 10 liter bucket of water - my total mix is around 780-800ppm
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

I am thinking over watering, because I gave it 3/4 of gallon just water last night, and they were looking fine and spread out before watering.
My feed is based on "light" schedule from the canna website.

I currently do 25ml of A+B each on 10 liter bucket of water - my total mix is around 780-800ppm
Idk, I'd top those plants once. They are going to grow like Christmas trees. Drop your ppm to around 350-400 for a couple feedings. See how they bounce back. Keep your temps at 75/80 and RH between 40-65%. I think you have some N tox tbh. 1 watering won't do that type of droop, especially since you're in coco. I feed to runoff daily. My plants were showing these symptoms.

Notice slight claw? This was 3 days ago



Here's today



Reaching for the moon. Slow down so they can speed up brotha!!

Stop by my grow. We can teach each other things [emoji16]

600w Cree CXB3590/Coco/Canna Nutes 4x4

600w Cree CXB3590/Coco/Canna Nutes 4x4
 
Thread starter #8
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray



This is overwatering or nitrogen toxicity. The leaves that are red aren't good signs. They need to look like the leaves that are blue. I wouldn't flower until your plant looks healthy.
I gave the smaller plants less water, so I think that's why they look less curled up.
I chose to grow in coco, as they say it's harder to overwater, but I think I managed to do just that.

They looked just fine last night, but I think I just gave them more water than they needed so will not give them any today and see if they come back. Thanks for the feedback!
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

I gave the smaller plants less water, so I think that's why they look less curled up.
I chose to grow in coco, as they say it's harder to overwater, but I think I managed to do just that.

They looked just fine last night, but I think I just gave them more water than they needed so will not give them any today and see if they come back. Thanks for the feedback!
Are you feeding to runoff?
 
Thread starter #10
re: Nute or light burn from neem oil & soap spray

Are you feeding to runoff?
Yes, although my pans are 14" and are a little snug around the pots.
Only the GG4 (the larger plant has a 16" pan which has decent run-off channels)

I LOL'ed at Christmas trees, I guess it's that time of the year?
Jokes aside, I topped the two smaller ones - with the GG4 I just wanted to leave it the natural way, as I have only 3 plants in 4x4 and enough space, but will certainly going to experiment with topping and scrogs next time around.

I want to get at least one full grow under my belt, so I can better understand the issues that might come up during each cycle.
Ultimately, as you said, I'll have to slow down a little bit with the nutrients as well.

They just went into a dark cycle, so I will be checking on them later tonight and see if there's any improvement.
Thanks for your help LB
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
Nute or light burn from neem oil/soap spray

Yes, although my pans are 14" and are a little snug around the pots.
Only the GG4 (the larger plant has a 16" pan which has decent run-off channels)

I LOL'ed at Christmas trees, I guess it's that time of the year?
Jokes aside, I topped the two smaller ones - with the GG4 I just wanted to leave it the natural way, as I have only 3 plants in 4x4 and enough space, but will certainly going to experiment with topping and scrogs next time around.

I want to get at least one full grow under my belt, so I can better understand the issues that might come up during each cycle.
Ultimately, as you said, I'll have to slow down a little bit with the nutrients as well.

They just went into a dark cycle, so I will be checking on them later tonight and see if there's any improvement.
Thanks for your help LB
Okay so here's my final prescription to help these plants out.

Let the lights cycle back on, if pots are damp DONT water them, wait another day.

If they are bone dry, and need water give them as follows.


Feed them half strength base nutes,
feed full strength boosters and calmag.

Try to land your ppm in the 350-400 range. If the plants start the yellow that means we know you aren't over feeding. Likely they will start going crazy and get perky and happy. Take them out of the tent and into the bathtub and give them a hefty watering this time. Make sure you achieve a 20-30% runoff. This should flush out the coco leaving them with enough nutes to survive and after a few feedings like this start upping your ppm and your plants will be ready to flower. Make sure your PH is between 5.7-6.0.

Get bigger basins or a flood tray. Or elevate your pots out of those little basins. You need to have a decent runoff to make sure nutes aren't building up in the coco, and make sure to remove those basins and wash them immediately. Don't let the plants soak in the runoff. It'll just buildup and cause issues.
 
Thread starter #12
Re: Nute or light burn from neem oil/soap spray

Okay so here's my final prescription to help these plants out.

Let the lights cycle back on, if pots are damp DONT water them, wait another day.

If they are bone dry, and need water give them as follows.


Feed them half strength base nutes,
feed full strength boosters and calmag.

Try to land your ppm in the 350-400 range. If the plants start the yellow that means we know you aren't over feeding. Likely they will start going crazy and get perky and happy. Take them out of the tent and into the bathtub and give them a hefty watering this time. Make sure you achieve a 20-30% runoff. This should flush out the coco leaving them with enough nutes to survive and after a few feedings like this start upping your ppm and your plants will be ready to flower. Make sure your PH is between 5.7-6.0.

Get bigger basins or a flood tray. Or elevate your pots out of those little basins. You need to have a decent runoff to make sure nutes aren't building up in the coco, and make sure to remove those basins and wash them immediately. Don't let the plants soak in the runoff. It'll just buildup and cause issues.
Resolutions:
got 3x4' flood tray
watered them down nicely
left them alone overnight
back to 300ppm
leafs are going back up slowly, and no longer curled up

Sadly the "christmas tree" GG4, is now one skinny tree lol - most of the lower leafs died and it now looks like poodle that had a haircut

The Jack47's are looking to have recovered much better, and taking up nicely

Thanks for the advice, 100% over feeding.... as you called it I was rushing things, but learn from mistakes and never repeat

Will post photos later

:bravo:LB
 

LB07

Well-Known Member
Re: Nute or light burn from neem oil/soap spray

Resolutions:
got 3x4' flood tray
watered them down nicely
left them alone overnight
back to 300ppm
leafs are going back up slowly, and no longer curled up

Sadly the "christmas tree" GG4, is now one skinny tree lol - most of the lower leafs died and it now looks like poodle that had a haircut

The Jack47's are looking to have recovered much better, and taking up nicely

Thanks for the advice, 100% over feeding.... as you called it I was rushing things, but learn from mistakes and never repeat

Will post photos later

:bravo:LB
Freaking awesome!!! Woot woot. I'm happy for you brotha!!! I'm waiting for some photos patiently! Here's that girl I share with you earlier with the N claw! Day 2 flower. I thought she couldn't get happier, but look at her groooww.

 
Thread starter #14
Re: Nute or light burn from neem oil/soap spray

Freaking awesome!!! Woot woot. I'm happy for you brotha!!! I'm waiting for some photos patiently! Here's that girl I share with you earlier with the N claw! Day 2 flower. I thought she couldn't get happier, but look at her groooww.
Those are some nice colors. Sorry, I haven't got a chance to post any photos recently, got busy with the holidays and ton of other stuff.
Since, I've upgraded the watering system, as I was getting lazy to make nutes every second day. I got a 15 gallon tank, little aqua aerator and water pump with some hydrolines. I've continued feeding around 450ppm and the plants have recovered beautifully and since have shot up. As I had over 60 days of veg on the GG4 already I have switched them to 12/12 as well.

These photos are from day 2 in 12/12 as well

Happy New Year!