Nute problems?

[Xlr8]

yes the strength of the base was way low at first. I had cut back on base nute to add (N) supplement and get a proper ppm reading the guys at the store said this is where I made the mistake possibly because I wasnt using the meter properly "so to speak" I was reading right but using it as a sole instrument to determine my nute stregnth. the guys at the store told me to always follow the directions for the base nutes first, then add supplements if needed or wanted. whats your opinion? how do I determine exactly how to use this ppm meter top my advantage? plus my RO water isnt really RO water in combination with the other things I am not sure how to fix my problem and exactly whats wrong.

Just the opposite, additives first, then base nutes typically to get to desired ppm's. But, go easy on any additives for now - I have to run, but I'll check back when I can...

If/when you can... Check your ppm's after all is mixed up, then let me know what they read, and what brand / model you are using (it matters, believe it or not, unless it's measured as EC, which is universal... ).

 

[Half Pipe]

Im getting there I think, lol. I know with all your guys support it should be easy.

 

[Xlr8]

Im getting there I think, lol. I know with all your guys support it should be easy.

Couple more thoughts...

For the most/best support, consider starting a grow journal on the site here - keep track of what you do for your own sake, but others will follow too, and offer advice. For ongoing growing advice, it's the way to go. If you are like me, you'll find yourself referring back to it regularly in the future - and it can really help out. Not as many people check these threads as they do grow journals, and you'll get even more help as needed.

Also, it can be really helpful to follow a few other peoples journals, especially hydro journals with similar set-ups. I have a somewhat similar system or two (mine are contained flood systems, similar to and Ebb N Gro). You'll pick up so much from watching others successes and failures - it really helps. I learn something almost every day from someone here. There are links to my current and past journals in my signature if you want to drop by, and you can go here for other journals (or to start one):

Journals in Progress

Finally, the second to last link in my "signature" leads to TONS of valuable info and resources that can help you shorten the curve for learning as you hit bumps in the road, or if you just want to learn advanced tips (or basic ones). Also, on the left under my avatar picture, you'll see a link to my blog entries. I've compiled a bunch of the stuff I think is most helpful to others there. There are tips in my blog on germinating seeds, understanding PH and PPM's better, battling bugs, cloning, using co2, etc. I've spent a lot of time compiling some of it, and I think there are things there that you might find helpful.

Even though I mentioned the burned leaf tips, the most recent pictures look encouraging to me. The lighter green is from healthy looking new growth. It'll come around, they are much more resilient than we want to give them credit for.

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

I agree with everything Xlr8 has said.

 

[Xlr8]

I agree with everything Xlr8 has said.

Thank you TG!

 

[Half Pipe]

sweet man! thanks, you rock.

Okay here are all the different readings on my meter for the plant in soil. "the water inside the resevoir" I am only feeding them as needed now no more timer on those. but still in that system for space and such. I use the "ppm on 442" setting and the calibration solution for "ppm442" I would think Im really High right now at 133x10 which is 1300ppms correct? I havent watered with this actual solution yet, it has simply evaporated and raised ppms since I have stopped timer use and added the new nute solution. so I will correct it before letting it touch my plants what do you suggest I Dilute the ppms down to for this stage of growth

?

 

[Half Pipe]

Sorry, I thought it was going to load pics differently, but if you go to my galleries you will see the "TITLE" for each picture has what setting its on.

 

[Half Pipe]

yes sir TG! Im so stoked right now to have his help!

 

[buddyb]

Here are some other pics of these from the top. now I think I have this problem, LOL! see

pic descrip

Nice to see like ur plants came back. Mistakes are just part of the learning experience

 

[Xlr8]

If I read the meter right, yes about 1330 ppms. If it were me, based on the burned tips and deficiency symptoms, I'd water that down to about half that for any plants that have been struggling a little. Maybe just a day or two on the strictly hydro clay ball plants. Then work your way back up again gradually. You really shouldn't need to feed higher ppms than that ever really, except if they are really healthy and you have things a bit more dialed in and want to push a little.

For the soil mix plants, use this diluted mix to water them once the start to get "light" in weight as we discussed. When you do water them next with the diluted mix, pour it through until you get run-off. Measure the PPMs of that run-off. If it's much higher than what you put in, there are salts built up. In that case, keep watering until the runoff measures closer to what you are putting in. Does that make sense? If no salt build-up, warer as normal with the diluted mix, and work the strength back up gradually (100-200 ppm jumps or so).

This is just what I would do, based on what I'm seeing, etc. Compare this with your own instincts, trust your gut, and decide whether this seems like a good plan for you.

Lastly, your nutrient temps are a bit warm, if you are flooding with that as it was measured. Under 70f is ideal (under 67f even better). If you are having trouble keeping temps below 70, a root zone conditioning product like "Zone" by Dutch Master nutrients can help you avoid issues with roots (re the hydro plants, not the soil). Frozen water bottles in the reservoir is a cheap way to cool it, but labor intensive.

Nice meter, btw!

 

[Half Pipe]

okay now Im getting some where. all this makes so much more sense now. I'm starting to get the idea. Im sure my mistakes are from over watering, as well as some over and improper feeding now. My nutes in the clay only hydro grow is different than the one i showed you but now that I understand a little better I think I can make the proper adjustments, but I will need some more help from you just to be sure. lol. I get stressed easy. even though I have had success it hurts me to see them suffer, LOL!! I want them to know im right there, and everything is going to be ok, LMAO!!


Here is what Im going to do I will check my local store for this root "zone" stuff. What does it do exactly? Sounds like I will need it during summer, if Im still in this place. We are expecting slightly cooler temps soon outside so my res. temp should drop a little on its own, Im in a trailer with additions and such, thin walls and floors, LOL!! But no matter the temp out side hot or cold, I keep It nice inside for me and the ladies! BTW hint, it never snows here, and that big mouse lives here, oops was that TMI, lol. so thats why the high humidity outside as well sometimes, but I got that mostly under control really, Here are some back away pics of my closet for now. 2 mothers to the right behind the fan arent always kept in there but I'm going to flower those 2 along with all of the others once they are healthy and old enough to do so. I have new seeds strains (4 Mr. Nice and 3 OG kush) to work with and back up clones of these mothers as well so time to go mama, LOL! I use an areo garden for my clones and seed starts its awesome but I can only do 7 at a time. it works so good for both. I wish I had 2 of them, so I could do SOG style with all 14 pots in the ebb and flow system. with both systems running, each system harvest 14 every 30 days, then 14 new go in and 14 move over. perpetual harvest every 30 days is my goal. what do you think?

 

[Half Pipe]

Im talking about the soil plants. Im going to go get my water from a different source/machine where it comes back at 40ppm or less thats alot closer to real RO water right? I should then use the cal mag correct? "How long do wait to feed after flushing?" So If I understand you right, I should start by Flushing plants first, then adjust the ph in the new RO water, then add the cal mag supplement which is "GH" cal mag. i was going to go with the lighter feeding of 1 teaspoon per gallon, then add my Base Nute at 1/2 strength or enough to bring up to 700 to 800 total ppms, then adjust ph again? BTW I do check but usually wont need to adjust ph at this point because the areogarden nutes are ph balancing and they work pretty good, anyways then I would feed plants as needed with this nute solution? oh ya BTW, Im using the drops for ph monitoring and I keep it at yellow 6.0 according to color chart. this has not givin me any problems before as far as i know, I could be wrong. but I was pretty happy with the results of my first grow, my friends were quite impressed. I could be labeled a perfectionist and fairly clean person for a bachleor, LOL! I do keep things clean and right as much as possible. I have a limited budget at this point as well, so trying to work with what I've got so far, then step up a little with better nutes. What do you think of ph perfect 2part Sensi Grow and 2part sensi bloom by advance nutes? have you used them? I was thinking of getting a that with the hobbiest kit to start with on my next grow. They have a nute calculator on there website its pretty cool. I will check on the blue planet nutes you mentioned as well.

 

[Xlr8]

Hi Ramrod -

Dutch Master "Zone" will kill pathogens that get into the root zone as a result of lack of oxygen. The lack of oxygen is typically a result of warm water, which holds oxygen very poorly. Colder water will hold oxygen better (60-67f is ideal, anything under 70f is acceptable). Best solution is to find ways to keep nutrient solution at the proper temps, but the "Zone" will often help you get by even with slightly warmer temps. Even so, I still use a product like "Zone" all the time, because it's a good defense system against pathogens that cause root rot, etc, in a hydro system. There are other approaches too, but this is my favorite.

I like your idea for perpetual harvests.

I think your plan for cal/mag and nutrients sounds great, and you have the right idea as far as how to do it and when to measure it. The PH range that's acceptable for hydroponics is about 5.5-6.2, and for soil it's higher - between about 6.3 and 6.8. (NOTE - I'm not a soil grower, so I'm trusting this chart for the ideal soil PH range, but I thinbk it should be good):

The nutirents you mentioned (PH perfect from advanced) are fine nutrients, though expensive. I've not used them, but they make quality nutrients with proven results (Advanced). I have used some of their other nutrients and products, but not that one personally.

The Blue Planet Nutrients stuff is going to be a less expensive route, and they are what I choose to use. They are also proven and good. I initially won some as a prize, but I like it enough that I've put my own money into buying more of it, something I wouldn't do if I didn't like it/ believe in it. There are many good nutrients out there, though, so the choice is yours. I would avoid organic based nutrients, however, for the hydro system as they tend to have a lot of "particulate" and leave a sludge that can sometimes muck up your pumps, etc.

The lower ppm water sounds like a great idea, too. As far as when to feed/water after flushing: With the soil, when they are light and ready for watering again. With the hydro system, you want to give the lighter feed for a day or two, and then start ramping it back up slowly (100-200 ppm jumps perhaps). That's just how I'd do it...

Let me know if I missed anything. Oh, and your set-up looks very clean and well-crafted!

 

[Half Pipe]

Thank you for the compliment on the set up. I spent alot of time researching, saving and buying all the equipment piece by piece to make sure I had everything I needed to start. I took my time making this room according to specs from several different resources. I wanted everything to be just right, Im a little anal i guess, LOL! not extreme like "OCB" or anything. Well anyways thanks it means a alot to me that some one else appreciates my hard work. Its not like I can show everyone.

 

[Half Pipe]

As far as the plants go couple of things. Im using submerisable air pumps in reseviors 24/7 for constant circulation and aeration. I was told this is a very good Idea and to keep it that way, your thoughts? I know that this is why my water temp is slightly high as well. but to me it seemed worth it for the benifits of constant circulation and aeration. also when using the drops for ph adjusting, am I okay with looking for the piss yellow color which is supposed to be 6.0 according to the chart and just stick with that for now until I can afford a digi ph meter?

 

[Half Pipe]

oh ya one more thing when I get some of the "zone" stuff how much do you recommend adding to my nute solution and at what point, before the base nutes correct? I would think this is correct per our discussions. Is there a recommended dosage or ppm levels on the container? I want to make sure I get my reseviors set up absolutely perfect this time around after the flush. so I can get these babies back on track asap and as cheap as possible. this water change and flush is going to cost me to much already, its $1.75 per 5 gallons at the new machine at publix. Im going to be making alot of trips. I only have 4 of the 5 gallon jugs, 20gallons and each system requires this much , LOL! and the flush to ughh, lol!!! I can feel my back already and Im not even doing yet LMAO!! oh can I use the 350ppm ro ph corrected water mixed with a little Florakleen to flush plants with, then use the new water for res? this could save me a couple bucks

 

[Xlr8]

As far as the plants go couple of things. Im using submerisable air pumps in reseviors 24/7 for constant circulation and aeration. I was told this is a very good Idea and to keep it that way, your thoughts? I know that this is why my water temp is slightly high as well. but to me it seemed worth it for the benifits of constant circulation and aeration. also when using the drops for ph adjusting, am I okay with looking for the piss yellow color which is supposed to be 6.0 according to the chart and just stick with that for now until I can afford a digi ph meter?

6.0 for hydro plants = yes.

The pump in the reservoir... You are talking to the right guy, as I've done a lot of experimenting in this regard. I had good results doing it, but in the summer it made my res temps too high. If it does that, you are accomplishing nothing much at all by having it, does that make sense? Otherwise, love it. It does do a good job of recirculating the nutrients.

Okay, so what other options are there? Well, nothing is a good option sometimes. If taking the pump out gives you the right reservoir temps, that's a good route to go. Flood style hydro plants don't need aerated reservoirs. This is commonly misunderstood, especially by hydro growers of other styles like DWC, where reservoir aeration is essential. Here's why: When the system floods, the moving water surface is constantly exposed to oxygen. Additionally, the real magic of flood/drain growing, is during the "drain" phase. As the water drains out of the system back to the reservoir, the moist roots are exposed to a rush of oxygen, and have great oxygen exposure until the next flood. They spend the majority of their time in a highly oxygenated environment, because they're not constantly submerged in water, and the clay pebbles let a lot of air in.

Another option, and the route I go now... A little more aeration isn't BAD though, and can perhaps give them an even bigger boost. That's the theory I'm exploring now. Instead of a circulation pump, I put a couple of "air stones" in the reservoir, which don't add heat, yet will aerate the solution some. The pump sits on a shelf up above the reservoir, so it doesn't add heat. So far, I like going this route, though I'm still unsure whether it beats "nothing". I do believe it helps extend the useful life of the nutrients perhaps.

One last thing, as far as how long your floods should be: Just as long as it takes to fully submerge or get to the fullest level. This might be 3-4 minutes, or 10, etc. (depends on pump). Many timers work in 15 minute increments, which is why you often see people doing 15 minute floods. Sometimes with bigger systems 30 min is necessary, because it takes the pumps longer than 15 minutes, does that make sense? More time isn't better - after a while, they will start to drown a bit for lack of oxygen and this isn't ideal.

 

[Half Pipe]

Holy shit are you serious, LOL! wow thats interesting to say the least. I understand about the temp issues and during summer i would have a problem for sure. but in when its cold this could help to keep the water from getting to cold. so I guess I will have to do some experimenting of my own over the course of the 4 seasons. I think I will remove the one in the hydroton for now and go with nothing first to see where that gets me on the temp. It floods and drains "Fast" for 15min every 4hrs so I think your right this should be enough aeration and circulation for now. As far as the soil system one, I will just use (ICE COOLER PACKS) to reduce temp in resi when Im getting ready to feed them by hand "so to speak". I appreciate you asking if it makes sense. some times I have that problem, interpitating things the way I want to. LOL! Most everything makes sense coming from you, lol! we are on the same page I think. I really appreciate your help you were just the kinda person I was looking for. very happy to have met you.

 

[Half Pipe]

I will keep you posted!! once I have completed my complete flush and refill and WAIT! "hate waiting", LOL. I'm a very impatient person sometimes, LOL!! I want results, I want to blink, then see everything better again, LMAO!! really though, I cant wait to try combining all the things Im learning now with what I know. I have made huge strides in knowledge with your help this week and that alone is priceless to me! THANK YOU!!!

 

[Xlr8]

oh ya one more thing when I get some of the "zone" stuff how much do you recommend adding to my nute solution and at what point, before the base nutes correct? I would think this is correct per our discussions. Is there a recommended dosage or ppm levels on the container? I want to make sure I get my reseviors set up absolutely perfect this time around after the flush. so I can get these babies back on track asap and as cheap as possible. this water change and flush is going to cost me to much already, its $1.75 per 5 gallons at the new machine at publix. Im going to be making alot of trips. I only have 4 of the 5 gallon jugs, 20gallons and each system requires this much , LOL! and the flush to ughh, lol!!! I can feel my back already and Im not even doing yet LMAO!! oh can I use the 350ppm ro ph corrected water mixed with a little Florakleen to flush plants with, then use the new water for res? this could save me a couple bucks

For "Zone" I'd recommend about 2ml per gallon. That's what I use, and it's one of the first things I put in the reservoir. Unless you are using a silica supplement, I'd recommend it be the FIRST thing in your reservoir.

On the water. Why are you flushing with Florakleen? It's a fine product, but I prefer to use it only at harvest. For flushing mid-grow, I prefer to use a 1/4 strength nutrient mix. You could use your higher PPM water for that, but the lower PPM would be slightly better for the task. I'd go ahead and use it to flush, I think.

I had high PPM tap water, and eventually bought a RO water filter unit for myself. I believe it was around $200, but SO worth it in the long run (for me). It's super easy to use, small (about 14" tall and wide or so) and filters out chlorine, and minerals to give you essentially 0 ppm water.

Mine is the Hydrologic Stealth 100, similar to this (the one pictured is actually a little bigger/higher flow unit than mine):