Nutrient Advice

[Ganja Goose]

Hi Everyone,

I am using the Advanced Nutrients grow, micro, and bloom. I know that there is the prescribed amounts on the bottle and that some people us them and others use less, etc. I also understand that many people feed nutrients once a week and water the rest of the time (feed,water,water). Why do growers prefer to feed all of the nutrients in one feeding, as opposed to distributing the same amount of nutrients in lower concentrations, across multiple feedings in the week (feed, feed, feed)?

GG

 

[013]

Hey GG,

There could be multiple reasons, one might be so they don’t build up salts in grow media. Feed water is feed once but the water reactivates any remaining nutes. Now the rules change from soil to coco. Most coco growers feed every single time with half strength nutes. It may be slightly different for hempy or dwc. But coco, hempy, dwc and hydro are all about the flush. That’s an option for soil but I try to avoid flushing my soil if possible

Another consideration is what stage are your plants in? Simply because we water differently for veg cycle than when in flower... at least in soil we do. In soil grows once you get past tiny seedling stage we want the soil to dry out completely to build roots with wet dry cycle. You can’t do that in coco, hempy or hydro, those need 1/2 strength every day unless I am mistake.

Maybe we should start at the top..... What’s your grow media? Or are you just asking in general?

Its always good for others to render their opinions and for you to consider them. I don’t grow in coco and I’m a new grower too. So a real coco grower might disagree with me since I only have cursory knowledge there. As always.... see what other info and opinions stick on the wall.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Thanks 013. I am in my second grow in soil. It was really more of a general question having spent quite some time doing research on the subject and seeing a variety of different approaches. I really appreciate you taking the time to provide the feedback. Very helpful.

I am in my 4th week of flower. I did not realize however that I should be watering differently than in veg. Could you explain the difference?

GG

 

[013]

Sure this is for soil only and as far as the upcans that’s for photoperiods. For autos just start in final container but you need Emilya’s watering tech to get an auto in large final container right, I linked that up below. You can transplant an auto successfully but if you piss her off you can easily stunt an auto by transplanting it.

For photoperiod.... in veg start in small container like Dixie cup and once you get past tiny seedling say 2 to 3 pairs, start working the wet dry cycle. Water it and wait 3 to 4 days minimum with no water. If she looks good maybe wait 1 more day before watering. Or if she’s slightly wilted then give her a drink.

When the soil dries out completely the plant grows tiny root hairs to search for water. Done over time this helps build a strong rootball. After 3 to 4 weeks of doing this she gets root-bound, when leaves extend beyond the edges of the cup and she needs water often then we know it’s root-bound. We transplant or upcan to a 1 gallon container.

We keep repeating this process of watering and letting her dry out completely. Some call it the lift method... fill a same size container with only soil, no water. Use this as a comparison weight and lift the empty pot... now compare to your plant. When it’s dry she’s light as a feather.

We continue to veg her out using the wet dry cycle to build roots. We want her leaves much wider than the 1 gallon container. Rootbound so she needs water every day. She can stay in the 1 gallon for easy 30 to 60 days vegging her out, teasing that wet dry cycle and do your training too.

The last upcan is important, I like to time it a few weeks ahead of the flip to flower. In veg a plant will freely build roots, but in flower she uses the roots that were built in veg. So I do my last upcan into 5, 7, 10 or 15 gallon pots. (Bigger is better for soil) At the last upcan score the root ball with sterile knife - add your mycos or recharge or magic elf spunk but scoring rootball this encourages her to take over new home. Then veg for a few more weeks and then flip to flower. The upcan and root scoring is suggested by every nursery when you take a new shrub or ornamental tree home. Each upcan has added fresh soil to kick start her. Most folks do 20 ounce cup to 1 gallon to big final container. Always upcan from position of strength, a very healthy robust plant - if it’s weak or deficient wait, don’t do it.

This watering tech works for veg but in flower cycle you should keep the soil moist at all times. This works best if you’ve got a well drained soil with ample aeration, perlite or rice hulls etc. This probably doesn’t work right on plain brown dirt! None of this would work in a scrog but I did mainline training 72 tops and chopped 930 g wet off my first girl, that’s little over 8 zips dry. I was ok with that one! Not a pro, not saying this is best, but it focuses on building a giant root ball, that should carry her thru.

There are other great reads on her page, look down at her signature line. The other one to read is How to Water a Potted Plant.....Emilya Watering an Auto in Large final container

 

[Ganja Goose]

That is awesome information, other than I'm currently watering wrong in the Flower stage. Great read and amazing information. I'm going to make those adjustments and I guess I'll be smarter next time around.

Thank you again 013!!

GG

 

[013]

Hey Ganja Goose, Thanks for that, mighty kind of you. We all pick up different bits! Hope something there helps you! I’m still a newbie, first year but my on my 12 run now and I still have a lot to learn.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Why do growers prefer to feed all of the nutrients in one feeding, as opposed to distributing the same amount of nutrients in lower concentrations, across multiple feedings in the week (feed, feed, feed)?

Probably grew up getting force-fed half a cow on Sunday and then given nothing but water for the next six days .

 

[Buds Buddy]

@013 , you're real close on the Coco. You do feed every time. However, for best results you feed twice per day in veg & 3 times per day in Flower & you pH to 5.8. PITA if you are feeding more then 2 plants by hand. Auto Pots or a drip system recommended for this type of grow.
Most soil you don't have to pH your nutes with because the lime in it does that for you as long as your pH isn't too far out of whack. I still pH mine anyway. Anywhere between 6.2 - 6.6 pH & let the lime do the rest. That's just my preference. You can go 6.0 - 7.0 actually & the lime will adjust the pH.
May I ask why you chose AN ? Expensive stuff; I've used it. Way better results with Mega Crop for a fraction of the cost & way simpler to use. I can grow 5 plants from seed to harvest with just Mega Crop for about $20. If you want to see the results look at the last few pages of my DWC journal. The 3 plants that are left are soil grown plants with Mega Crop.
"Buds Buddy Does DWC / Critical 2.0 for the 1st Time"

 

[013]

Thank you Buds, and please let this be a lesson to GanjaGoose. The methods of growing change significantly depending on auto vs photo and also depending on grow media used.

When asking for help wait for multiple inputs before pulling the trigger... I gave answers but they were totally wrong!

Buds Buddy has the skills here! So @Buds Buddy do you feed full strength or 1/2 strength when feeding 2X per day in veg and 3X per day in flower? Help me learn whats normal for coco nutes!

 

[Buds Buddy]

Thank you Buds, and please let this be a lesson to GanjaGoose. The methods of growing change significantly depending on auto vs photo and also depending on grow media used.

When asking for help wait for multiple inputs before pulling the trigger... I gave answers but they were totally wrong!

Buds Buddy has the skills here! So @Buds Buddy do you feed full strength or 1/2 strength when feeding 2X per day in veg and 3X per day in flower? Help me learn whats normal for coco nutes!

Start with 1/2 strength. If leaves are light green in 7 - 10 days go to 3/4 strength. If light green leaves up it some more.
If you start getting Dark Green leaves or burnt tips on the leaves the nutes are too strong & you need to make them weaker. It's all about paying attention to what your leaves do. They seem to tell you when they need water (Leaves droop), When too hot or too much light (Taco or curled down leaves near the light), When they are happy (leaves pointing upwards or laying out flat), When to increase Nitrogen by upping nutes (Leaves turn yellow), Leaves get rust spots (Cal Mag issue), etc. The leaves tell you everything the plant needs & likes.

 

[013]

Thanks Buds! I appreciate the knowledge drop. I had read that many did weak nutes since feeding multiple times per day but this helps me get a much better understanding. I try to avoid giving feedback on coco & hydro questions since it’s not my forte.

 

[Cornercat]

I haven't seen anyone mention measuring EC yet. Basically, nutes are salts and a salt solution's concentration can be measured with an electrical conductivity meter. Whether you're growing in dirt, coco, dwc - the most accurate way to determine your feeding schedule and the concentration to feed at is with an EC meter. If you design a way to catch the water coming out of your soil after you irrigate it, you can determine the EC level of the soil. Compare that number with the EC of the nutritious water you're irrigating with to determine the schedule and concentration. This is the only way to know that your plants have 100% of the food they need when they need it. You can't know if you're feeding too much or not enough, or make proper adjustments without measuring EC. You could follow the bottle instructions and read the leaves but that's way more difficult and the damage is already done if they get off track.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Hey Cornercat,

Thank you for the information on EC. I've been trying to learn about EC, PPM. etc (recognizing they are all related) and was wondering if you could possibly expand more on the topic? Specifically, how do you know whether or not you are feeding the correct concentration of nutes. How do you use these readings to dial in the right amounts and the right frequency?

 

[Bionic Chronic NZ]

I haven't seen anyone mention measuring EC yet. Basically, nutes are salts and a salt solution's concentration can be measured with an electrical conductivity meter. Whether you're growing in dirt, coco, dwc - the most accurate way to determine your feeding schedule and the concentration to feed at is with an EC meter. If you design a way to catch the water coming out of your soil after you irrigate it, you can determine the EC level of the soil. Compare that number with the EC of the nutritious water you're irrigating with to determine the schedule and concentration. This is the only way to know that your plants have 100% of the food they need when they need it. You can't know if you're feeding too much or not enough, or make proper adjustments without measuring EC. You could follow the bottle instructions and read the leaves but that's way more difficult and the damage is already done if they get off track.

That’s really good information brother.

 

[Cornercat]

Hey Cornercat,

Thank you for the information on EC. I've been trying to learn about EC, PPM. etc (recognizing they are all related) and was wondering if you could possibly expand more on the topic? Specifically, how do you know whether or not you are feeding the correct concentration of nutes. How do you use these readings to dial in the right amounts and the right frequency?

I'm no expert, so I'll link a video from Dr. Bruce Bugbee who's growing cannabis for NASA. Use the link in the video description to skip to "35:15 - Watering schedule with optimal nutrient solution and fertilizer types"

Put a sample of your prepared nutrient solution in a shotglass and use an EC meter to get a reading in millisiemens. Young plants need less nutrients, maybe 0.6 - 0.8 EC. Then scale that up to ~1.3 EC as they grow bigger. If the number is too high, you should dilute the solution with more water until the number falls in the 0.8 - 1.3 range. Then you can water your plants with it, remembering to water until 20% of the irrigation volume drains through the bottom of the pot. You water that extra 20% each time to flush any nutrient and ph imbalances away that might have been accumulating in the pot. You can then catch that runoff water and put it in a shotglass to measure the EC again.

Now you can compare the runoff EC to the irrigation EC to see if the plant is eating as much as you're feeding. If you feed the plant at 1.3 EC but the runoff is 1.5 EC, then the plant isn't keeping up and you should try feeding a lower EC like 1.1 next time. If the runoff EC gets too high a bunch of bad things will start to happen. If the runoff EC is too low the growth will be slowed, but honestly I think too high is worse. Keep adjusting your schedule to the plant's appetite and you'll be good.

Bruce recommends feeding every watering, in low concentrations. But you might water with just plain water (like a mini-flush) if you notice the EC is really getting high. But flushing only reduces the concentration and doesn't change the balance of the nutrients. EC only measures total nutrient levels - so if you're reading high but have an unusually low ratio of nitrogen(no way for you to really measure nutrient ratios), flushing will reduce EC but also put your plant in a severe nitrogen deficiency. That's why you should always PH and water with some nutrients, to keep the NPK ratios balanced while you dial in the concentration.

Here's an image I saw in Pennywise's thread that helps decypher what all the combinations of readings may indicate.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Maybe just a newbie opinion, but I think Dr. Bugbee is amazing. I watched some of his stuff on lighting and this was just as informative. I really appreciate this information. Ordered my ph and ec pens tonight!! Thank you 420

 

[Ganja Goose]

EC and ph pens arrived from Amazon today. While I wait for the ph pen to calibrate I decide to measure the EC of my Advanced Nutrient solution that I am scheduled to feed tomorrow. Good news is that I now have the ability to dial in my nutrient program, but the bad news is that I am currently sitting at an EC of 3.3 and the plants just started the 6 week of flower. I haven't been at this long, but I recognize 3.3 as being wayyyyyyyyy too strong. I'll measure the run off tomorrow, but I suspect I will need to possibly flush and administer a lower concentration (EC ~2.0).

I had some classic signs of the nutrients being a bit hot and I had never attempted to resolve because it didn't seem to be getting any worse. I think this data speaks otherwise. Being only a few weeks away from harvest, should a guy just hold the course for this grow rather than change anything at this point?

Maybe I will apply my new knowledge to the next grow. Thoughts?

GG

 

[013]

I’m not saying you should do this.... but I‘ve never checked EC or ppm.

from everything I’ve read runoff ppm is useless. After any watering to runoff event some fine sediments and nutes are washed out. If you go adjusting ppm to correct the runoff then you yo-yo too high, too low. Skip it and save the nervous breakdown. For hydro grows the important thing is to check your inputs.

This does not apply to your coco grow but I’m soil grower and I can mix kelp, DE, liquid fishy ferts and have a ppm of probably 8,000, I can practically slather it on with a trowel and water it in and the plants are happier than piglets rolling in shit soup. Again not saying you should do any of this....

I can get by with different thing in soil..... but for hydro & coco grows this stuff matters greatly

 

[Ganja Goose]

I’m not saying you should do this.... but I‘ve never checked EC or ppm.

from everything I’ve read runoff ppm is useless. After any watering to runoff event some fine sediments and nutes are washed out. If you go adjusting ppm to correct the runoff then you yo-yo too high, too low. Skip it and save the nervous breakdown. For hydro grows the important thing is to check your inputs.

This does not apply to your coco grow but I’m soil grower and I can mix kelp, DE, liquid fishy ferts and have a ppm of probably 8,000, I can practically slather it on with a trowel and water it in and the plants are happier than piglets rolling in shit soup. Again not saying you should do any of this....

I can get by with different thing in soil..... but for hydro & coco grows this stuff matters greatly

Thank you 013. Always appreciate the feedback. I too am growing in soil as well

GG

 

[013]

Roger that GG.. I looked at the pic again but didn’t remember soil or coco & was too lazy to scan a dozen pages!