Old World Genetics Test Garden: F13-Throwback & Shortbread

[Triggle]

What's up 420Mag,

Going to do a summary journal on the recent/current test grows that I've been running. Been posting on another more general thread but just wanted to consolidate in a focused report.

Strains:

F13-Throwback
(F13 #14(Oregon Mist pheno)x Blueberry F4)

Shortbread
(LambsBreadSourDiesel(wild west)x Blueberry F4)

I'll do the F13's first and then follow with the Shortbread. These are mostly retrospective as the F13's are now curing and the Shortbread will be harvested any day...so, I'll basically put up all the posts at once and then we can all chat about it, if you want.

The following post will be a short summary of my background, growing style/philosophy and how I came to have these genetics in my garden. Then we'll get to the fun stuff.

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

How It Came To Be


I reached out to Old World late last fall in regards to some clone stock and that's when I first spoke to/ "met" JD. I had decided on a few different strains and was able to secure cuts of them shortly after. I had some issues in the veg cabinet and lost the clones early in the game and requested replacements. JD was happy to take my replacement order, but informed me that he did not have enough of "my strains" ready and that it would be a little bit. He offered cuts of other OWG lines in their stead but I declined and we agreed to get the order filled at a future date.

During the extensive communications that followed, and still continue today- JD offered up some tester beans of some new lines and I decided to give it a go. I immediately received tester packs of the F13-Throwback, what is now being called Shortbread and the yet named MendoAfgooxBlueberry F4 crosses that JD had recently bred.

There was definitely some miscommunication that occurred and I, like a few others, thought I was one of just a few with these beans. For a time that was true but some of the Shortbread and Mendos were given out to a few seedbanks as freebies and also raffled at a few cups/expos. I was a little miffed at first but that was just my ego talking. JD immediately acknowledged the bad look, apologized for the misunderstanding and offered to "make it right", but his acknowledgement/validation of my viewpoint was enough for me. We moved on quickly.

I am (what I consider) your just above average small-time hobby/medical grower. I have a professional background in botany/horticulture/ecology and I have an insatiable passion for bud. I run a few thousand watts at peak production but am usually running 2k watts or less. I have some experience with DJ's blueberry line. Sometimes I crush it and sometimes I have to start over but, each grow is a success to me. Since I'm not tied to production goals and I don't pay my bills with my garden, I get the luxury of being able to just love the process and appreciate the journeys and the increasingly more frequent harvests of top grade flowers.

The purpose of the testing was somewhat unique to each strain but with some overlapping and obvious parameters:

F13:
A) Late stage R&D to confirm stability/expression of F13 "keeper" phenotypes.
B) Within context of "average grower"- meaning 1 pack of seeds.. The question "Will the average grower get at least 2 keepers in a pack?"
C) Photos for packaging, forum info etc

Shortbread
A) Cooperative, early R&D of new outcross.
-Stability
-Terps/Resin production
-Colors
-Structure etc.
B) Larger run (I germinated 25 seeds-other testers, I'm not sure)
C) Photos for packaging, forum info etc (pending satisfactory R&D)


All plants vegged under CFL/LED combo, transferred to 1gal pots for 2 weeks and vegged under 600w MH for 2 weeks and then transplanted to 3gal tall. Vegged for one more week and put into 12/12 under 1000w HPS. No training, topping was done. They were grown in FoxFarm Ocean Forest Soil and I used FoxFarm organics for the nutes(full line). I often incorporate FF products into my feedings and a lot of bud has/is grown with it. For the purposes of what the average grower might get from a run, I think we covered all the bases.

For me, it's important to note the manner in which OWG conducted business with me. I was humbled to be working with DJ Short's company and JD (and subsequently DJ) have shown me the same type of humility and gratitude throughout the entire process. There are so many "breeders" out there these days and everyone is trying to build their Hempire...it's been refreshing to work with some guys that are beyond that stage of their relationship with cannabis.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

F13 Throwback

I'll start here since these ladies are now in the jar, harvested appx 2 weeks ago.

15 seeds popped
Culled to 13 immediately- 2 weaklings
Sexed to 7 females

When they were real young, they showed quite a bit of variegation on their fans but they were adequately vigorous and extremely pretty.
Heres a shot of the variegation:

That's a pretty average representaion but there were a few that were slightly less/more variegated/mutated. They all expressed at least some aspects of the Blueberry father that most of us are familiar with...
The authentic DJ Short Crinkle:

More Crinkle and a mutation:

They were somewhat sensitive to nitrogen with the grow methods used here. This may not be the case with a different strategy. That being said, I fed them per the FoxFarm feeding chart but at 1/4-1/2 strength for their entire life.

Here's a shot of some different fans from different plants to show leaf shapes and variegation spectrum:

Here they are in veg prior to sexing and in 1 gallons still, about a week before going into 3 gallons:

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

F13 Throwback

True flowering started on around the 15th of January on these and it was clear from the start that they would be frosty. My hpotography skills also get better throughout the run so bear with me.

Week 3-ish Flowering

Variegation has all but disappeared on most individuals at this point with sporadic occurences here and there. Nitrogen/nutrient assimilation improved steadily but those tips would curl up like the shoes on the wicked witch from Oz throughout the run and even when just watering, whether it was the first "water only" after a feeding or the last one before the next feeding. They never really burned so it would be interesting to have pushed them to that point just to see.

No real smells yet unless disturbed but then, soft berry/fruit and that unmistakable smell of hashish that has yet to be made. Buds were rock hard at this point and would stay that way for the most part.

Super even vertical growth but some phenotypes were starting to separate themselves structurally. The F13 dominant phenos began to change leaf shape and the leaflets started to get skinny and taper hard at the rachis. The Blueberry dominant phenos retained wide leaflets.

This pic is later in the grow but you can see the tapering on it.

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

F13 Throwback

They really started to bulk up week 5 and the phenotypes were clearly discernable. As tempting as it is to give each plant it's own pheno name, it's not a very good way to actually classify plants as even when you get to the sub-level of varieties, they usually fall within a range of traits...(i.e.: "pistils 1mm-5mm, flowers green to purple or mixed, subtended by bracts or bractless). For those new to plant classification-Refer to Hitchcocks "Flora of the Pacific Northwest" and you'll see what I mean.

So I went with 2 phenotypes. 7 females, 2 phenos.

The F13 Dominant pheno was named "High Mountain Mist". This is a reference to the mother plant (Oregon Mist) and also to the F13 #4, which is also referred to as "High Mountain Sage". I simply called it that because these individuals reminded me of both of those F13 phenotypes.

Dense, spear-shaped nugs. One of the original descriptors for the first F13 realease.

F13 Structures: Check.
Trichome Production: Check.



Blueberry dom pheno next post.

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

The Blueberry dom phenos started smelling before the others and were swelling up and getting fluffy at this point (week 5ish). I was concerned that they might really foxtail out and/or get wispy but that proved not to be the case as things progressed.

This pheno was much better at taking up nutrients, also.


The photo booth gets an upgrade from here on out. [A black t shirt, taped to the wall ]

F13 Throwback

Into week 6 and things really started getting good. The new backdrop also allowed me to better capture what I was seeing compared to the white, washed out earlier pics. For the most part, these pics are minimally edited, using the instagram app only. Edits consist of cropping and shadow adjustment to compensate for flash. No color/contrast/saturation edits. (The flushed fan leaf picture is heavily filtered)

High Mountain Mist grouping

You can see the spectrum of foxtailing, color and structure differences but with common overall form here. The plant in the final pic was pretty much all foxtails and the only one deemed "non keeper", however, it was/is the terpiest of the HMM pheno grouping.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

This plant was dubbed "The Breeder"...I am not a breeder but, if I was, I would have dusted this one. She mystified me the whole way. So sophisticated.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

F13Throwback

The Blueberry dom phenos really started to chunk up and get dense while still keeping the fluffy textures...(The HMM phenos were sharp, hard and waxy)

Again, that spectrum of color/foxtail with a dominant overall morphology.

The terps on these really started coming on strong too and lean to the fruity side whereas the HMM pheno grouping leans more to the "temple hash" notes.

If you topped/LST/scrog etc, you could pull some fat ass yields out of this pheno.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

F13 Throwback Recap

I'll get some more "out-of-the jar" shots up as soon as I can but it will likely be a few days.

Stats:

Seed to Harvest: Appx. 105-112 days

Flowering Time: 56-65 days (you could take the BB's to 70-75 if you wanted to experiment with terp profiles)

Yields: Great potential on some phenos. Not exploited here (see: what I would've done different.)

Difficulty: Probably not the best for beginners. Anybody that grows cookies would have fun with this one, though. Can't learn unless you try though, so have at it.

What I would've done different, had I known then...

1. Longer veg...the HMM pheno is slender in every way and the branches were thin. They were sturdy, but thin. I would do some LST on these phenos next time and veg them out extra long...I'd scrog the BB phenos next time with lots of topping, turn up the watts and mix up some extra hot batches of compost tea.

2. Saved cuts. Haha as always.

3. Dialed in the aforementioned cuts, made a selection and pollinated the shit out of her.


I'm sure I missed a lot of details but I have great notes and a good memory so just ask. That is the conclusion of the F13 Throwback journal, save for any nug pics. I'll get the Shortbread section going as soon as I can.

Thanks to Jd and Old World Genetics for the opportunity. Bucket list project for a small timer like me.

Some finished Nug Shots

Hope you all enjoyed the F13Throwback portion of this journal. All questions are welcome!

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Shortbread Update in a day or two...

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Shortbread Grow Summary

The Shortbread seeds that I received were yet to be named when I received them..(that happened in a conversation on my IG during the early part of the grow)...After starting the F13 Throwback, JD and I made arrangements for me to get some of them along with the Mendo Afgoo cross currently being ran by some folks, including myself.

The goal was to look for stability(or a lack thereof) within, and across phenotypes. Also to document growth habits, whole plant & flower morphology, terpene expression/analysis, color expression and of course, to get photos. Unlike the F13Throwback test grow, we were also looking at the male stock..

Early in veg, these ladies were looking great...great symmetry, F1 vigor, limited variegation (a common trait that is not universally desirable, however, i tend to like it) etc..just what you'd hope for and expect from a cross between good breeding stock ran from seed..

Two fan leaves, early in veg...the more rounded one had me excited due to it's primitive, almost ancestral shapes...(it turned out to be a male that herms to female and was culled)...the sharper looking (and ridiculously beautiful) shapes were the dominant leaf type...

This is a shot of a fan from our F5 Blueberry for comparison..

Due to space constraints, it was important to sex and select as soon as possible so they were moved into the flowering room with the F13Throwback under HPS for about 5 days...

We had a nearly 50/50 split, favoring males by one plant.

We cloned all of the males (8 total), flowered them (in the cloner with no nutes) and then revegged the selected cuts....4 of them showed at least some trichome development with one of them showing excellent trichome development...all of them showed good colors and structure and one of them was especially stinky.

After restabilizing in veg, the terminal stalk clones were given back to JD and DJ after sharing a nice dinner. Straight up guys, for certain. My first time meeting DJ and without going off on a whole different thread- that man's current relationship with cannabis is on a whole different level and in an entirely different context than our own. JD has been a solid and honest cat from day one and in every interaction, as well.. Can't imagine the pressure (even if self imposed) of trying to follow the footsteps.

Back to the females...As mentioned, they showed great vigor from the start (almost too good). When put under HPS, they started to stretch the last couple days and the trend continued for a few days after returning to veg room...To save space and slow them down a bit, I topped all of them.

While topping served the purpose of freeing up some space, it also meant I would get a modified growth form vs. it's genetic tendencies when untopped...Furthermore, they responded so much to the HPS sexing treatment that they showed signs of re-veg when put back under MH, and starting throwing single and triple bladed leaves for a few nodes before going back to 5's and 7's (common reveg characteristics.) Due to their form not being representative of their true genetic expression, I didn't really take any "full plant" pics...All I can say is that they're vigorous and showed a stretch when put under HPS flowering spectrums/schedules. They are stalky and strong though...The branches were impressive diameter for the plant size and a planned multi-top outdoor/greenhouse run would yield great results and are great candidates for SCROG and/or LST, supercropping etc...

Which takes me to the yields/performance section...next post.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Shortbread cont'd..

Thankfully, the vigor held through flowering and the ladies stacked extremely nicely...Of the 7 females, I had 3 non-keeper phenos (all the same pheno)...they had the same great terps and colors as the others but were almost pure foxtail...interesting but still not something that I would keep around, even being partial to unique castaways..

I have a few pictures somewhere but they closely resembled the "non-keeper" F13Throwback, but less cool...pictured here..

The terps were solid so I fresh froze the "non-keepers" for CO2 oil making in the near future.

So that left 4 keeper individuals...2 phenotypes

First, the "wire-hair" pheno group...big thick chunky purple buds...but loose...not what I'd call wispy...denser than that but certainly airy...loose is the best way to describe it I think.
Terps and trich development were fantastic in these and because of sheer size, they yielded a little better than the other keeper pheno.

Then the "Juice" pheno

The pistils were so thin and almost non existent..they were really pretty and the smells!!! This stuff smells like straight pineapples early on and matures into an over-ripe tropical fruit market..not really any citrus, more like pineapples and melons and mangoes. It's really exquisite and a true "Sour"....the mother cut's authenticity is unprovable but it is easy for me to believe that it is in fact Lambs Bread Sour Diesel...this is the sourest stuff I've smelled growing in person and the smell of the flowers in the jar rival a well known cut of Sour Dubble that some of you may even be running right now in the sour department.

The juice pheno was the "one" from this run if I had to choose...Dense, chunky colorful and stinky nuggets with huge aesthetic appeal and high yielding potential...A connoisseur quality flower, an extractors dream plant and it was easy to grow.

Some say the cups are rigged these days and maybe they are but if they weren't, you could win them with these terps. It's really a special profile and I'm super pumped to see what people find as these get more widely distributed.

The next few posts will be random nug shots while growing and nugshots from out of the jar. Questions of any kind are welcome.

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Shortbread Nug Pics

Peace

Trig

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

The Icing on the Cake

Not only did I get to work with Old World on a new variety, I have made friends with JD and the legendary DJ Short. I really cant explain what it's meant to me but I almost feel like I topped out too early haha! Such an honor to work with these guys and they've been so cool the whole way. From not knowing I was alive to open daily communication in less than a year. Crazy what a little ambition and hard work can still do these days...

In recognition of my work, the Old World team has elected to use my pictures, from my flowers, on the new seed packs that will soon be released to the world (My mind is so blown!). Word up to all my 420Mag homies out there putting in work, never stop grinding!!!

Peace

Trig

 

[Dusty Kiefers]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

My brother. Straight awesome possum. Those look soooo stout. I appreciate the time you took on that update. Stoked for my brother getting his name in the cannabis game.
love from mine to yours homesicle.

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

My brother. Straight awesome possum. Those look soooo stout. I appreciate the time you took on that update. Stoked for my brother getting his name in the cannabis game.
love from mine to yours homesicle.

Word up big dog, thanks for the love! Such a fun grow! The shortbread finished flowers are just exquisite too. Heard there was a flock of storks headed your way, who knows what they may drop off in your neck of the woods... ;-) Lots of love back to the Kiefers Clan from out West. Peace my dude.

Trig

 

[millertm]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Great grow, those are some lovely ladies. You look like you are doing very well.

Cheers

Sent from my SPH-L720T using 420

 

[Triggle]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Thanks millertm! Came out proper this run for sure.

 

[drcannabi]

re: Old World Genetics Test Garden - F13 Throwback & Shortbread

Hi Ya Triggle!

What an Awesome journal! I told you I'd be by but I never expected what I'd see once I got here. What an amazing story. I honestly can't believe the frost you got on those plants.

What are doing now? Are you going to get another journal up? I'd love to see Part 2 brother Trig!

Peace...

 

[Triggle]

What's crack in Doc!? Thanks for the love! They sure frosted up nice and that was just a straight germ n' run! Wish I would've kept cuts! I got plenty of beans though!

I'm kind of on a workcation for the summer but we have some more unreleased Old World stuff going as well as some DK Customs from the homie! Not sure if I'll be able to make an effective journal but I'll throw down some pics on my gallery and maybe invade a few threads with some pics if I can!

Keep it green, Doc!

Peace

Trig