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Olive oil extract update

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
So it's time to post an update, unfortunately with some very bad news. I posted in the middle of last year questioning methods of extracts, some of you may remember it:

RSO - Extraction Methods - Bioavailability - Contradiction & BS?

Since then i haven't changed my mind on the olive oli method as it proved to be effective, the reasoning behind that is in the above thread, although if someone wishes so i can repost here the main points.

The oil i made proved to be potent, AND effective. At the moment i have a couple strains going, high thc and high cbd, each with their own very distinguishable qualities in oil form. Also i have several people that are getting benefits for different ailments ranging from MS to joint pain to post chemo therapy.

The most noteable case is pancreatic cancer from the above thread. My mother in law used the oil for about 3 months in which time her unoperable tumor shrunk from 5cm to 2cm and markers went from 900 to 80. After she got those great results she talked with her doctor, who was ecstatic and couldn't believe nor had seen those kind of results from the chemo she was getting (gemzar) and for that kind of cancer. So then, she told him about the oil.. to which he answered sourly that that wasn't his concern and was her problem. And then guess what... she stopped taking the oil. Things basically went downhill from there, and we buried her last weekend.

Sorry to post such terrible news, but for anyone interested in the olive method, go for it. And of course if anyone has questions.. i'm here ;)

:Namaste:
 

Jedthedog

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

I am very sorry to hear about your loss,I can only hope that the Medical community would put saving live,s and quality of life ahead of the old mighty Dollar. Oil has many benefits..
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

I wanted to edit the original post above, but it seems that that’s not possible here, so here is an update to the update.
It seems others are curios about this method, and I just realized I haven’t yet posted exactly how I did it, so here it goes:

First, I used freshly harvested MJ, straight off the tree. Reason being is that after only a week of drying over 30% of the terpenes are lost. And since with olive oil its possible to retain everything of medicinal value regardless of water content, fresh is the way to go.

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Terpenes_In_Cannabis.pdf

http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EntourageEffect.pdf

The ratio I used is 400grams MJ to one liter of oil. That’s about 100grams dry going by what I dried for personal use. Any more bud than that just won’t fit. As I put the bud into the oil I used an immersion blender to grind it down and make space; this is the only way to make so much fresh bud fit into the oil.

Second, cooking! The temperature I used was 105 degrees Celsius for 2 hours. I found this study which basically confirms other findings on the net. And considering that some terpenes are volatile already at 119 degrees, 105 looked perfect.

Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials - GW Pharma Limited

Cooking was done via double boiler method. Water in the first pot obviously won’t get the temp up enough, so I used ordinary sunflower oil to bring up the temp. I used a cooking thermometer to check temps and mix every 5 minutes. Obviously I had temperature fluctuations but on average I was close to what I needed.
The main thing to keep in mind here is that the fresh bud has lots of water content and so it takes a while to get up to temp as the water evaporates. Main thing was to use a low flame and just wait out the evaporation. When the temp went over 100 degrees I started counting down. Here you just have to find and average for temperature and time .. you kinda get a feel for it. 105 for 2hours is the baseline though.

Third, separation. After a few methods, I found one that works best for me. The next day, once the oil is cooled, I put it into my vita-mix, oil and bud, all in. I then proceed to mix it completely, after which I pour it into a glass pitcher. Over the next few days the really finely ground bud sits on the bottom, and the oil gets poured into.. well into whatever. The bud that’s left at the bottom is then scooped up, thrown into some fabric and into a French coffee press for a final squeeze. This worked best for me.
I tried pressing the bud straight out of the pot, but this method above was simpler, and more effective. Very very little oil gets thrown out. I’m sure no more cannabinoids are lost this way than what gets thrown out with a solvent extract.

Fourth, consumption! 1.5ml of this stuff has me going all day. The first time I tried it, I took 5ml, and didn’t come down in over 2 days. Best time to use it is shortly after a meal for maximum absorption, as shown in a few studies, including one by GW Pharmaceuticals for their product Sativex. As a topical its also very effective. My mother in law was using almost 15ml per day with max tolerance.. others are using much less naturally for milder conditions. My father for example uses 4ml at night, and doesn't wake up to go pee 4-5 times as usual because of his prostate.

All in all, this is a VERY complete method of extraction and decarboxylation. I also used this method with much less heat for a THCA oil which is quite different than the THC version.. although this method required many hours for evaporation of the water.

Any questions?? :high-five:
 
Re: Olive oil extract update...

I wanted to edit the original post above, but it seems that that's not possible here, so here is an update to the update.
It seems others are curios about this method, and I just realized I haven't yet posted exactly how I did it, so here it goes:

First, I used freshly harvested MJ, straight off the tree. Reason being is that after only a week of drying over 30% of the terpenes are lost. And since with olive oil its possible to retain everything of medicinal value regardless of water content, fresh is the way to go.

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Terpenes_In_Cannabis.pdf

http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EntourageEffect.pdf

The ratio I used is 400grams MJ to one liter of oil. That's about 100grams dry going by what I dried for personal use. Any more bud than that just won't fit. As I put the bud into the oil I used an immersion blender to grind it down and make space; this is the only way to make so much fresh bud fit into the oil.

Second, cooking! The temperature I used was 105 degrees Celsius for 2 hours. I found this study which basically confirms other findings on the net. And considering that some terpenes are volatile already at 119 degrees, 105 looked perfect.

Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials - GW Pharma Limited

Cooking was done via double boiler method. Water in the first pot obviously won't get the temp up enough, so I used ordinary sunflower oil to bring up the temp. I used a cooking thermometer to check temps and mix every 5 minutes. Obviously I had temperature fluctuations but on average I was close to what I needed.
The main thing to keep in mind here is that the fresh bud has lots of water content and so it takes a while to get up to temp as the water evaporates. Main thing was to use a low flame and just wait out the evaporation. When the temp went over 100 degrees I started counting down. Here you just have to find and average for temperature and time .. you kinda get a feel for it. 105 for 2hours is the baseline though.

Third, separation. After a few methods, I found one that works best for me. The next day, once the oil is cooled, I put it into my vita-mix, oil and bud, all in. I then proceed to mix it completely, after which I pour it into a glass pitcher. Over the next few days the really finely ground bud sits on the bottom, and the oil gets poured into.. well into whatever. The bud that's left at the bottom is then scooped up, thrown into some fabric and into a French coffee press for a final squeeze. This worked best for me.
I tried pressing the bud straight out of the pot, but this method above was simpler, and more effective. Very very little oil gets thrown out. I'm sure no more cannabinoids are lost this way than what gets thrown out with a solvent extract.

Fourth, consumption! 1.5ml of this stuff has me going all day. The first time I tried it, I took 5ml, and didn't come down in over 2 days. Best time to use it is shortly after a meal for maximum absorption, as shown in a few studies, including one by GW Pharmaceuticals for their product Sativex. As a topical its also very effective. My mother in law was using almost 15ml per day with max tolerance.. others are using much less naturally for milder conditions. My father for example uses 4ml at night, and doesn't wake up to go pee 4-5 times as usual because of his prostate.

All in all, this is a VERY complete method of extraction and decarboxylation. I also used this method with much less heat for a THCA oil which is quite different than the THC version.. although this method required many hours for evaporation of the water.

Any questions?? :high-five:
My biggest question is did you use pure indica? Do you place drops under tounge? Does olive oil absorb or do you swallow? :thanks:
 

Dave Groomer

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

I wanted to edit the original post above, but it seems that that’s not possible here, so here is an update to the update.
It seems others are curios about this method, and I just realized I haven’t yet posted exactly how I did it, so here it goes:

First, I used freshly harvested MJ, straight off the tree. Reason being is that after only a week of drying over 30% of the terpenes are lost. And since with olive oil its possible to retain everything of medicinal value regardless of water content, fresh is the way to go.

http://www.medicinalgenomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Terpenes_In_Cannabis.pdf

http://www.beyondthc.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/EntourageEffect.pdf

The ratio I used is 400grams MJ to one liter of oil. That’s about 100grams dry going by what I dried for personal use. Any more bud than that just won’t fit. As I put the bud into the oil I used an immersion blender to grind it down and make space; this is the only way to make so much fresh bud fit into the oil.

Second, cooking! The temperature I used was 105 degrees Celsius for 2 hours. I found this study which basically confirms other findings on the net. And considering that some terpenes are volatile already at 119 degrees, 105 looked perfect.

Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials - GW Pharma Limited

Cooking was done via double boiler method. Water in the first pot obviously won’t get the temp up enough, so I used ordinary sunflower oil to bring up the temp. I used a cooking thermometer to check temps and mix every 5 minutes. Obviously I had temperature fluctuations but on average I was close to what I needed.
The main thing to keep in mind here is that the fresh bud has lots of water content and so it takes a while to get up to temp as the water evaporates. Main thing was to use a low flame and just wait out the evaporation. When the temp went over 100 degrees I started counting down. Here you just have to find and average for temperature and time .. you kinda get a feel for it. 105 for 2hours is the baseline though.

Third, separation. After a few methods, I found one that works best for me. The next day, once the oil is cooled, I put it into my vita-mix, oil and bud, all in. I then proceed to mix it completely, after which I pour it into a glass pitcher. Over the next few days the really finely ground bud sits on the bottom, and the oil gets poured into.. well into whatever. The bud that’s left at the bottom is then scooped up, thrown into some fabric and into a French coffee press for a final squeeze. This worked best for me.
I tried pressing the bud straight out of the pot, but this method above was simpler, and more effective. Very very little oil gets thrown out. I’m sure no more cannabinoids are lost this way than what gets thrown out with a solvent extract.

Fourth, consumption! 1.5ml of this stuff has me going all day. The first time I tried it, I took 5ml, and didn’t come down in over 2 days. Best time to use it is shortly after a meal for maximum absorption, as shown in a few studies, including one by GW Pharmaceuticals for their product Sativex. As a topical its also very effective. My mother in law was using almost 15ml per day with max tolerance.. others are using much less naturally for milder conditions. My father for example uses 4ml at night, and doesn't wake up to go pee 4-5 times as usual because of his prostate.

All in all, this is a VERY complete method of extraction and decarboxylation. I also used this method with much less heat for a THCA oil which is quite different than the THC version.. although this method required many hours for evaporation of the water.

Any questions?? :high-five:
You should try it with the Magical Butter Machine. I have not done olive oil but the Coconut oil comes out great and easy. :peace:
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

My biggest question is did you use pure indica? Do you place drops under tounge? Does olive oil absorb or do you swallow? :thanks:
You can swish it around your mouth for a bit for slightly faster action, but basically you are swallowing it and getting the most benefit through the digestive tract. I know some will disagree here on this particular forum, but i don't see the logic in pure concentrates and/or gum tacking.
I have one person who was taking almost a gram RSO daily and he can't handle 6ml of this olive oil daily. Consider that 10ml has 1gram of weed, and 1gramRSO is approx. from 8grams of weed, this raises some very important questions, especially considering prior knowledge available on cannabis medicine.

Its widely known that cannabinoids are not watersoluble, but are soluble in fats and alcohol.. but not only that, they are also made bioavailable when mixed with fat or alcohol. Thats why pharma companies mix cannabinoids with oil or alcohol, think sativex, marinol, etc.
And really, it only makes sense. The more cannabinoids you get into your system, the more your going to feel them. If someone is taking larger amounts of concentrates and not feeling it, im pretty darn sure they're not absorbing them properly. I am not saying pure concentrates don't work, obviously they do, but i believe a lot is going to waste not being absorbed properly.

As far as strains are concerned, i have a 60/40 sat/ind hybrid and a 1:1 thc/cbd strain going.. and mix the two oils depending on use and medical condition.

I know i'm stepping on some toes with my above comments, but after loads and loads of research, and personal experience, its all just pure logic for me.
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

Other than that, scratch number 3 in the above mentioned method. There is a waaaaay better way to get all of the oil out.

Put the left over material after straining into gauze, tie it up, and throw it into a pot of hot water. Mix it about, and then strain again into another pot.. and repeat that two to three times. This way you get alllll of it, just drops get left over. All you have to do then is seperate the oil from the water in the second pot. Cheers!
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
PsyCro, thank you for all the time and effort you put into this. You've offered the community a valuable resource. I've been thinking for months now that a topical olive oil/cannabis infusion would be the ticket for my scalp psoriasis and I learned so much reading these two journals. That's more product than I will have available for quite a while, but I may be able to make a less potent mix, since it's being used topically.

Great work here PsyCro. Reps.
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
So far as a topical its proven effective for arthritis, sun burn, burns from cooking, and small wounds. First time i made it i made the mistake of not trying to keep the oil off my hands, it gets in there that's for sure.. had a relaxing afternoon after that :1:

Glad you've made sense of all the info.. good luck :Namaste:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Some great info PsyCro! +reps

Tell your dad to start taking zinc to help with the nocturnal trips to the bathroom too. Any old 50mg zinc gluconate tablets from the drug store will work fine. Good for the heart and other issues too. Fixed me up in a week. Saw Palmentto, pumpkin seeds/oil and nettle is also great for that and reducing the size of the prostate.

Also magnesium citrate or topical magnesium oil which is just magnesium chloride and water. 450g MgCl to 1000mls of pure water and it's a lot cheaper than buying the "oil". Almost everyone is deficient in Mg, Zn and many other minerals that are no longer present in what passes for food these days. I add pink Himalayan sea salt to the RO water we drink. Tastes great and adds 84 different trace elements to my diet. Home made colloidal silver takes care of things like tooth infections, wound treatment, gum problems and even got rid of some red eye with it. Going to experiment with using it when growing pot. :)

:peace:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Re: Olive oil extract update...

You can swish it around your mouth for a bit for slightly faster action, but basically you are swallowing it and getting the most benefit through the digestive tract. I know some will disagree here on this particular forum, but i don't see the logic in pure concentrates and/or gum tacking.

I have one person who was taking almost a gram RSO daily and he can't handle 6ml of this olive oil daily. Consider that 10ml has 1gram of weed, and 1gramRSO is approx. from 8grams of weed, this raises some very important questions, especially considering prior knowledge available on cannabis medicine.

Its widely known that cannabinoids are not watersoluble, but are soluble in fats and alcohol.. but not only that, they are also made bioavailable when mixed with fat or alcohol. Thats why pharma companies mix cannabinoids with oil or alcohol, think sativex, marinol, etc.
And really, it only makes sense. The more cannabinoids you get into your system, the more your going to feel them. If someone is taking larger amounts of concentrates and not feeling it, im pretty darn sure they're not absorbing them properly. I am not saying pure concentrates don't work, obviously they do, but i believe a lot is going to waste not being absorbed properly.

As far as strains are concerned, i have a 60/40 sat/ind hybrid and a 1:1 thc/cbd strain going.. and mix the two oils depending on use and medical condition.

I know i'm stepping on some toes with my above comments, but after loads and loads of research, and personal experience, its all just pure logic for me.
The logic you don't understand is all about the science of bioavailability. "Feeling it" means that the enzymes in your liver have done their job and converted the THC into the psychoactive state. Ingestion through the gut is very good at getting you high and making you feel better and sleep better. These are valuable attributes, but the process of passing through the GI system leaves you a meager 6% return on the bioavailability of those cannabinoids trying their best to heal your body.

Tacking more than doubles the bioavailability of cannabinoids to around 13%. It also removes the euphoric effect from the process, something many people appreciate.

Eating fats about 30 minutes before using cannabis-based medications, as in this oil infusion or CCO for example, will tie up the liver enzymes and allow more bioavailability as well. There are other methods to enhance the body's ability to get the most out of the medications. The first couple posts of the cancer protocol thread go into detail on this subject. There's a link to that in my signature line (Using CCO to Treat Cancer).

I do like that this process retains so much of the terpenes. We're just beginning to understand the synergistic effects of the terpenes and cannabinoids, and this has to be increasing the medicinal values of this oil. Obviously it was having a dramatic effect on you late mother-in-law. This is a valuable addition to our knowledge base and I see great potential for its ability to assist the body's quest to create homeostasis.

I'm going to pull this together into something a little tighter and add it to the oil blog.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I'm looking over the research materials used in the post mentioned earlier questioning the choice of using dry plant material over wet, and a couple interesting things pop out at me.

The Volatile Oil Composition of Fresh and Air-dried Buds of Cannabis sativa

* It's worth noting that the study was done in 1995 and they were apparently looking for ways to be able to detect the presence of cannabis through smell.

* There were four samples tested: 1) fresh, 2) air-dried a week, 3) air-dried a week and stored in a brown paper bag for one month and 4) air-dried a week and stored in a brown paper bag for three months.

* Volatile oil content started off at 29% fresh and dropped off to 20%, 16% and 13% respectively. It's understandable that the OP found this information disconcerting. A loss of 31% in a week certainly gives one pause. But there's more to the equation than simply the volume of oil one can extract.

* Aside from the drop off of volatile oil volume, the most striking difference was in terpene composition. Using fresh material you have 92% monoterpenes and 7% sesquiterpenes. As they dry you begin to have a drop off of the monoterpenes as the sesquiterpenes increase. Let's take a look at the levels as we progress.

1) Fresh 92.48/6.84
2) Air-dried one week: 85.54/12.64
3) Air-dried one week, stored in a bag one month: 67.60/29.53
4) Air-dried one week, stored in a bag three months: 62.02/35.63

* In the fresh mix the predominant monoterpenes were myrcene (67% of monoterpene composition) and limonene (16% of monoterpene composition). Let's track those.

myrcene: 67.11%, 58.72%, 38.74, 32.88
limonene: 16.38%, 17.20%, 17.66%, 16.26%

It appears that the chief advantage this process of using fresh plant material and olive oil offers is the retention of those monoterpenes, most importantly myrcene. It's time to take a closer look at what we know about myrcene and its synergistic effects. Limonene actually increased with drying and curing, peaking at the one month point and then dropping off again to a lessor value than the fresh allowed.

* There were no terpenes entirely lost in the drying process.
* A steam distillation process was used to extract the oil. I'm not learned enough yet to determine the significance of this point, but I'd bet it's an important consideration.

The table included in the research paper linked to has an extensive list of other terpenes and their changes in levels throughout the experiment that are worth looking over. It's fairly obvious we need to improve our understanding of terpenes. We still have so much to learn.
 

Dave Groomer

Well-Known Member
I'm looking over the research materials used in the post mentioned earlier questioning the choice of using dry plant material over wet, and a couple interesting things pop out at me.

The Volatile Oil Composition of Fresh and Air-dried Buds of Cannabis sativa

* It's worth noting that the study was done in 1995 and they were apparently looking for ways to be able to detect the presence of cannabis through smell.

* There were four samples tested: 1) fresh, 2) air-dried a week, 3) air-dried a week and stored in a brown paper bag for one month and 4) air-dried a week and stored in a brown paper bag for three months.

* Volatile oil content started off at 29% fresh and dropped off to 20%, 16% and 13% respectively. It's understandable that the OP found this information disconcerting. A loss of 31% in a week certainly gives one pause. But there's more to the equation than simply the volume of oil one can extract.

* Aside from the drop off of volatile oil volume, the most striking difference was in terpene composition. Using fresh material you have 92% monoterpenes and 7% sesquiterpenes. As they dry you begin to have a drop off of the monoterpenes as the sesquiterpenes increase. Let's take a look at the levels as we progress.

1) Fresh 92.48/6.84
2) Air-dried one week: 85.54/12.64
3) Air-dried one week, stored in a bag one month: 67.60/29.53
4) Air-dried one week, stored in a bag three months: 62.02/35.63

* In the fresh mix the predominant monoterpenes were myrcene (67% of monoterpene composition) and limonene (16% of monoterpene composition). Let's track those.

myrcene: 67.11%, 58.72%, 38.74, 32.88
limonene: 16.38%, 17.20%, 17.66%, 16.26%

It appears that the chief advantage this process of using fresh plant material and olive oil offers is the retention of those monoterpenes, most importantly myrcene. It's time to take a closer look at what we know about myrcene and its synergistic effects. Limonene actually increased with drying and curing, peaking at the one month point and then dropping off again to a lessor value than the fresh allowed.

* There were no terpenes entirely lost in the drying process.
* A steam distillation process was used to extract the oil. I'm not learned enough yet to determine the significance of this point, but I'd bet it's an important consideration.

The table included in the research paper linked to has an extensive list of other terpenes and their changes in levels throughout the experiment that are worth looking over. It's fairly obvious we need to improve our understanding of terpenes. We still have so much to learn.
They talk about drying in paper bags. Most of us Jar our meds to cure. I wonder if that changes anything. :peace:
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...

The logic you don't understand is all about the science of bioavailability. "Feeling it" means that the enzymes in your liver have done their job and converted the THC into the psychoactive state. Ingestion through the gut is very good at getting you high and making you feel better and sleep better. These are valuable attributes, but the process of passing through the GI system leaves you a meager 6% return on the bioavailability of those cannabinoids trying their best to heal your body.
All very interesting, but one thing which is probably very important is concrete information which we do not have. That thing is actual blood tests of people taking concentrates, concentrates via tacking, and 'complete' oil extracts through the GI. This would show the real deal, how much THC is actually in their system. But for information like that we would need an extensive study with many people over a period of probably a few months.

You talk about THC converting into its psychoactive state.. this seems partly incorrect since THC already is psychoactive, even THCa is to a lesser extent. When a person smokes they receive THC, and it makes them high. Through the liver THC gets converted to 11-OH-THC which actually is somewhat more psychoactive. But, keep in mind, if taken after a good meal the cannabinoids will be absorbed not through the liver but the GI.. slower, less extreme high, and longer lasting. And i'm sure i've seen figures of well over 50% absorption if taken after a meal.. which correlates with my example of one person who was taking 1ml CO that could not handle a much lesser amount of olive oil.

My thinking about tacking is that its not euphoric simply because its not binding to anything and hence not being absorbed properly. Show me hard evidence that absorption is achieved through tacking and i'm all in.

And once more, because i feel its very important to understand considering what you wrote above.. THC already IS psychoactive. If its in there, if its in your blood, your feelin' it.
Although building up tolerance is very important and really, 'the name of the game'. People need to develop, i believe, a healthy relationship with cannabis. Once they do that, once they get their tolerance up, the high doesn't get in the way anymore. Time, patience, and effort.
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
SweetSue, concerning your blog.. i recommend against using the vitamix (i wrote about up above). Its easy enough to strain the material without that step, and later when in the gauze the leftover oil will very easily get pushed out via the hot water :Namaste:

and, nice blog! :thumb:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Re: Olive oil extract update...

All very interesting, but one thing which is probably very important is concrete information which we do not have. That thing is actual blood tests of people taking concentrates, concentrates via tacking, and 'complete' oil extracts through the GI. This would show the real deal, how much THC is actually in their system. But for information like that we would need an extensive study with many people over a period of probably a few months.

You talk about THC converting into its psychoactive state.. this seems partly incorrect since THC already is psychoactive, even THCa is to a lesser extent. When a person smokes they receive THC, and it makes them high. Through the liver THC gets converted to 11-OH-THC which actually is somewhat more psychoactive. But, keep in mind, if taken after a good meal the cannabinoids will be absorbed not through the liver but the GI.. slower, less extreme high, and longer lasting. And i'm sure i've seen figures of well over 50% absorption if taken after a meal.. which correlates with my example of one person who was taking 1ml CO that could not handle a much lesser amount of olive oil.

My thinking about tacking is that its not euphoric simply because its not binding to anything and hence not being absorbed properly. Show me hard evidence that absorption is achieved through tacking and i'm all in.

And once more, because i feel its very important to understand considering what you wrote above.. THC already IS psychoactive. If its in there, if its in your blood, your feelin' it.
Although building up tolerance is very important and really, 'the name of the game'. People need to develop, i believe, a healthy relationship with cannabis. Once they do that, once they get their tolerance up, the high doesn't get in the way anymore. Time, patience, and effort.
It's true that eating something about 30 minutes before you medicate keeps the liver occupied. Competitive Inhibition is one of many ways to increase bioavailibility of the cannabinoids you're introducing. It's a biological fact that it's chiefly the enzymes in the liver that convert the THC delta 9 into the psychoactive 11-OH-THC, so keeping the liver occupied when you dose is a very smart idea.

In studying all of this I've gained a great appreciation for the speed with which the blood flows throughout the system.One of the reasons tacking works is that it bypasses the blood/brain barrier, delivering directly into the brain, so more cannabinoids are available to be used as medication before the enzymes in the liver are able to get access to them after they hit the bloodstream. I assure you, the oil is, in fact, being absorbed through the gums. Those cannabinoids are delivered right smack into the brain.

Tacking works without the intense euphoria because you've taken the time to build up the tolerance through smaller doses over time, spacing those smaller doses out through the day. By the time a patient has built up to a gram a day it's being delivered through multiple small tacks in the course of the day. This levels out the euphoric effect and the brain registers it as feeling good as opposed to high.

Yes, you're technically high, but it's a low-level high without euphoria. Done correctly you won't feel high at all.

I couldn't agree with you more about the need to study this with blood tests and case studies. Unfortunately this isn't likely to happen until our Federal government comes to their senses and ends cannabis prohibition. Since tacking is a protocol developed here there haven't yet been any studies performed that I know of. This frustrates me as much as I sense it does you. However, we're witnessing some dramatic healing results that strongly suggest the protocol is very effective against many maladies.

It's my hope, and my expectation as well that we'll be able to back the claims up with emperical evidence and medical documentation. We've just begun this journey. I'm an irrepressible optimist PsyCro.

I can't remember including the vitamix in the write-up on your extraction. I'll check my blog post out and make the correction if I have. Thanks for the compliment, by the way, and thanks for developing this method of extraction. I've been thinking about it since I first read your posts quite some time back and I've come to the conclusion that it'll be an invaluable addition to a daily protocol of tacking, and may turn out to be my chosen method of dosing. I'm reasonably healthy and retired, so it doesn't matter if it gets me high.

I'll be making a batch as soon as I harvest my first run in my new grow. I'm really attracted to the idea of conserving the integrity of the monoterpenes. We're not paying close enough to attention to the terpenes. I'm convinced of it. The results you've seen with your olive oil extraction intrigues me.
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
This frustrates me as much as I sense it does you. However, we're witnessing some dramatic healing results that strongly suggest the protocol is very effective against many maladies.
I suppose we can say that for cannabis based medicine in general.


Hm, well lets try it like this.. can you please show me some links that prove that the tacking method does what is claimed on this forum, and on this forum only from what i have seen. I want to understand this, i really do, but i'm getting the feeling on this forum that something that came about as hearsay has taken form into something much more concrete, but with no basis.

Here's what i came up with after a bit of googling:

Blood-Brain Barrier and Pharmacokinetics | Cannabis.info
eg. "Within about ten seconds of taking a toke, the plant's drugs cross the double-cell barrier"

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/marijuana/Medical_effects.pdf
eg. on 2nd page, copy paste doesn't quite work here.

What Makes Marijuana a 'Psychoactive' Substance? - TruthOnPot.com - TruthOnPot.com
eg. "Cannabis fits into this category of substances because cannabinoids – the active ingredients found in cannabis – cross the blood-brain barrier after being ingested and act on various parts of the human brain."

Cannabinoids and the blood-brain barrier-|-O'Shaughnessy's

So, once again, can somebody, aaaanybody, show me the scientific basis of the tacking method, and explain to me why it is believed (only on this forum) that cannabis has trouble passing the blood brain barrier..??
 

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
And please, no answers like 'well with tacking it passes the BBB even better'.. because that's just ludicrous. Cannabinoids obviously do pass the BBB and cause a high. If with tacking it passes with greater ease, it would cause an even greater high.

No..?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Thank you PsyCro. Although I'm one of those spreading this news, I'm finding it difficult to back it up with any science, and as an educator this concerns me.

The reality is that tacking was developed right here and no one has any emperical data to back up these claims. The closest we're going to come is that Cajun's personal protocol was so dramatically successful that the Anderson Cancer Center wants to use him as a case study, so some of the data may finally begin to be collected. Of course, we need to remember that 75% of his successful protocol was through the use of suppositories.

What appears to be happening is that building the tolerance over weeks and administering a daily dose, spread out over multiple smaller doses in the course of a day, creates a more level effect that isn't perceived as being "high", and that's about the best I can explain it. I'm personally hobbled by the fact that I haven't tried it myself. I'm retired and not subject to drug testing, so my personal choice of delivery systems is edibles, more particularly brownies that contain a gram of buds per slice, taken twice a day.

This is one of the things that appeals to me about your olive oil extraction. Would it be possible to mirror the effects gained by tacking by doing the same approach with the olive oil? Could one slowly build a tolerance to this extraction and by spreading the dose out in the same manner get the benefits without the euphoria commonly associated with being "high"? My daughter has a severe anxiety disorder and can't tolerate the high. It gives her panic attacks, but then we were using a strong sativa and now I'll be growing a low THC, high CBD Indica strain for her. My hope is that tacking can get those cannabinoids into her system without her having to be fearful of being euphoric. I'd be happiest if I could do the same with the olive oil extraction. I can see great value in that.

I want to read through your links before I try to get any deeper into this and see if I can press Cajun to get me the research links that would explain what we're suggesting is happening with tacking. Thank you for the links, by the way. I love learning, and a cursory glance at these got my heart pumping faster.

You're right about being able to say that about all forms of cannabis-based medication and protocols. I voluntarily gave up my own meds to visit my friend for the past 7 weeks and it's been an eye-opener how effectively those brownies were healing me and how much difference it's made being without them. Every protocol I've studied has been effective. It may be the next step is to utilize methods of increase bioavaibility, regardless of the delivery system.

It's 4 AM here and I really need to go to sleep. Can we pick this up tomorrow?
 
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