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Olive oil extract update

Thread starter #181

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
PsyCro, have you documented the pressure cooker method somewhere? I apologize if it was somewhere as blatant as the study hall, where I certainly should be aware of it. I was looking at small pressure cookers and thinking about this. Tomorrow I'm going to do a small harvest of a runt and process it like I did the last one, but I'd like to give the pressure cooker a go, for the experience and to be able to offer it as another alternative.

I'm having someone test out the oil I made last, so I'll know soon how effective it is as pain meds. I must admit, it was my favorite oil experience yet. I try not to get my expectations up with a new batch, but this one was hard not to get excited about.
I've only mentioned it in basic detail. My next batch is in a week or so.. soooo, i'm gonna give it a go with pics and all. I'm quite busy lately but a pic tutorial would be in order!
If your gonna buy a pressure cooker, buy one that has 2 pressure settings, and make sure its documented which pressure they use (that way you will know the temperature inside). Believe me, it the best method for vegetable oil extracts.. but you'll see for yourself soon enough ;)
 
Thread starter #182

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
oof.. yesterday after a long day i got home and started off with the latest batch.. halfway through i realized that i forgot the camera!

Sooorryyy.

If its any consolation the heat did a number on me so yield was poor and the bud wasn't all that much to look at, so maybe better i didn't get em on camera.

Next to that i found out that with this pressure cooker method its not necessary to strain with gauze in the end, probably because of the water in the equation. After letting it cool and settle i put a sieve into the pot and then collected through it using a ladle what i could, and put that into a tall glass pitcher so that i could see the oil and water separate. After i got what i could, i used a strainer to scoop up and strain the bud from the pot; that is, strained it back into the pot and threw the bud out, and then again collected from the pot.
Then it was just a matter of collecting the oil from the pitcher.. good stuff. Less messy than before!

The point being that the amount of oil in the end was the same as previous method with gauze.
Cheers!
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
oof.. yesterday after a long day i got home and started off with the latest batch.. halfway through i realized that i forgot the camera!

Sooorryyy.

If its any consolation the heat did a number on me so yield was poor and the bud wasn't all that much to look at, so maybe better i didn't get em on camera.

Next to that i found out that with this pressure cooker method its not necessary to strain with gauze in the end, probably because of the water in the equation. After letting it cool and settle i put a sieve into the pot and then collected through it using a ladle what i could, and put that into a tall glass pitcher so that i could see the oil and water separate. After i got what i could, i used a strainer to scoop up and strain the bud from the pot; that is, strained it back into the pot and threw the bud out, and then again collected from the pot.
Then it was just a matter of collecting the oil from the pitcher.. good stuff. Less messy than before!

The point being that the amount of oil in the end was the same as previous method with gauze.
Cheers!
Thanks for the update and new info PsyCro. Maybe next time you'll remember tha camera.

What do you use to collect the oil?
 
PsyCro, I've re-read this thread and just wanted to clarify a few things and get some (hopefully) easy answers...

1) I saw here that you were using a 60/40 sativa/indica hybrid and a 1:1 THC:CBD strain. Here you mention Tutankhamon and CBD Nordle. Am I correct in assuming these were the strains you used when treating your mother-in-law? Did you use any other strains? If so, which ones?

2) How did you use these while treating your mother-in-law? In one of those posts you mentioned combining the Tutankhamon/CBD Nordle in a 70%/30% ratio and here you mention 50%/50%, 70%/30%, and 80%/20%. How did your mother-in-law take the oils? 50%/50%? And she took that 3 times a day? Did she ever take the oils separately?

3) Here you mentioned heating a CBD extract to 120 degC for a shorter period of time, how long did you keep it at 120 degC for? Why did you decide to use a different temperature and time for CBD? According to the link you provided (this one) CBD/(CBD + CBDA) = 0.93 when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours and the CBD peak area/0.1 g of herb is greater when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours than for any length of time at 120 degC.

4) Continuing on from that, here you said your extract was tested at 75% conversion from THCA to THC while in the link you provided (this one) it suggests that 2 hours at 105 degC should be about 98% (THC/(THC + THCA) = 0.98 when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours). How did you have your extract tested and how do you know you achieved 75% conversion?

5) Have you found anything regarding which fats/oils are best at absorbing the cannabinoids/terpenoids? I've tried to find information specific to cannabis extraction and haven't found much that I would consider useful.

At the moment I have a pressure cooker that by my calculations operates at the standard 15 psi (I can't find it stated anywhere and I can't find a model number to search for specifications). According to the pressure vs temperature chart 15 psi should be very close to 120 degC. I'm looking at trying to make a smaller mass for the pressure regulator (about 1/4 to 1/5 the current mass) which should be around 3-4 psi and close to 105 degC.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Thread starter #186

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
PsyCro, I've re-read this thread and just wanted to clarify a few things and get some (hopefully) easy answers...

1) I saw here that you were using a 60/40 sativa/indica hybrid and a 1:1 THC:CBD strain. Here you mention Tutankhamon and CBD Nordle. Am I correct in assuming these were the strains you used when treating your mother-in-law? Did you use any other strains? If so, which ones?

actually she was on Tut only oil .. mixing strains is something that i started later on

2) How did you use these while treating your mother-in-law? In one of those posts you mentioned combining the Tutankhamon/CBD Nordle in a 70%/30% ratio and here you mention 50%/50%, 70%/30%, and 80%/20%. How did your mother-in-law take the oils? 50%/50%? And she took that 3 times a day? Did she ever take the oils separately?

again, she used only Tut oil.. but she handled it pretty well, although there was a comfortable limit, and everyone has to find their own limit.

3) Here you mentioned heating a CBD extract to 120 degC for a shorter period of time, how long did you keep it at 120 degC for? Why did you decide to use a different temperature and time for CBD? According to the link you provided (this one) CBD/(CBD + CBDA) = 0.93 when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours and the CBD peak area/0.1 g of herb is greater when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours than for any length of time at 120 degC.

i went with the 120 degC for 1 hour because of the 0.97 figure.. and i believe they (in the study) also used that as optimum for CBD.

4) Continuing on from that, here you said your extract was tested at 75% conversion from THCA to THC while in the link you provided (this one) it suggests that 2 hours at 105 degC should be about 98% (THC/(THC + THCA) = 0.98 when decarboxylating at 105 degC for 2 hours). How did you have your extract tested and how do you know you achieved 75% conversion?

the analysis was performed by a friend of a friend, under the radar. i have no documentation, just a good friends word. it was suggested on skunkpharm that after a certain conversion point THC degrades more than THCa can convert to THC.
keep in mind that the studies method of extraction IS different from this vegetable oil method, so there is certainly going to be some differences.


5) Have you found anything regarding which fats/oils are best at absorbing the cannabinoids/terpenoids? I've tried to find information specific to cannabis extraction and haven't found much that I would consider useful.

i believe that there isn't any big difference, its more about absorption in the body after administration.

At the moment I have a pressure cooker that by my calculations operates at the standard 15 psi (I can't find it stated anywhere and I can't find a model number to search for specifications). According to the pressure vs temperature chart 15 psi should be very close to 120 degC. I'm looking at trying to make a smaller mass for the pressure regulator (about 1/4 to 1/5 the current mass) which should be around 3-4 psi and close to 105 degC.

just calculate the time and temp and your all good.. as long as its not over 120 degC your fine as far as terpene degredation is concerned.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Other than that, my honest opinion, don't look at the numbers toooo much. Ballpark is just fine.. it's NOT, in my my mind, all about those numbers. I firmly believe that its not the point with cannabis medicine. Yes certain compounds in the plant have a definitive chemical effect in the body, but i believe that the holistic effect is just as if not MORE important for many conditions.

Look at the placebo effect.. a persons belief can change their health. Now take a person on cannabis meds, it changes their mood, the way they feel, the way they perceive things. That, HAS to have an effect on medical well being. So certain strains and combinations will play a different role for different people.

I think we need to look at the holistic effects of cannabis if we want to go forward properly .. looking only at numbers is the western medicine philosophy.. and possibly counterproductive to the cannabis movement.

(of course that doesn't mean that those who are making oil shouldn't get it tested and share the results and methods with us!) .. i unfortunately am not in a place where that is possible legally.
 

Mighty Mouse

Well-Known Member
Thanks very much for the answers!

With a bit of luck I can knock up a lighter pressure regulator and give this extraction method a try :)
I do not know what brand of pressure cooker you have, but I have a Presto and an All American. Both are stove top models. I was able to find on line pressure regulator weights that go down to 5 lbs of pressure.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
fookinel..... Superb, thorough questions.

PsyCro... Great answers. I'm learning so much from just being around you. I couldn't agree with you more about the holistic effects of cannabis. I'm coming to the opinion that the smartest approach is to utilize as many different methods of administration as you can comfortably work into the protocol for the variety alone, and I like having these oil extractions to play with. The more I study the oil extractions and the more I use this technique the happier I am to have found all this information.

Great work guys. Keep it up. :4:
 
I do not know what brand of pressure cooker you have, but I have a Presto and an All American. Both are stove top models. I was able to find on line pressure regulator weights that go down to 5 lbs of pressure.
I appreciate the thought but I couldn't find a model number or any relevant information on the manufacturers website. I also had a little look for a replacement regulator that I could drill holes in to make lighter and didn't have much luck.

For now I've knocked up a replacement which uses the needle from the original regulator with the mass reduced to just over one quarter. If the original was 15 psi then this is just over 4 psi which should be around 106-107 degC.
 
PsyCro, I'm mainly writing this to thank you for your help and to give some feedback. I've also had some thoughts related to collecting the oil after an extraction that you may be interested in.

I did an extraction a few weeks ago using about 210g of Blue Blood plant material and 500ml of macadamia oil, recovering about 350-400ml of oil afterwards. The person I'm trying to help took a small amount of it and didn't feel anything so the next dose they took a bit more and didn't feel anything again. I wanted to have some confidence that the reason they weren't feeling anything was because Blue Blood should be reasonably high in CBD rather than because I hadn't decarboxylated it properly so I did a little test for CBD which was positive. I have reason to believe the test works as I previously tested some Blue Blood plant material which was negative, however, when I decarboxylated it it was positive. I also tested some of the CCO I had been using previously and it was negative (which doesn't mean there's no CBD in it, just that there's not enough to get a reaction). That night the person took their third dose which was about half a spoon. These spoons hold about 4ml I think so I think the dose was about 2-2.5ml and they felt a little hungry and perhaps a little dizzy just for a short while.

That night they didn't sleep well so in case it was the oil I decided to make an extraction using the Aurora Indica I had available. This time I used about 135g of plant material with about 250ml of olive oil and recovered about 150ml. I chose to use the olive oil as I was expecting to recover more of the oil in the first extraction, however, after I did this extraction and got back about 100ml less than I put in I realised I should expect to lose about 100ml each time rather than it be proportional to how much oil I use. The 130g plant material was about all I could get. While it's more than the 400g/1l ratio you've used the Aurora Indica probably isn't as potent as Tutankhamon and as I wasn't ready to flower them they probably were less potent still, so the extra plant material is probably still not enough to get it to the same strength as what you used. When this extraction was ready I think the person I'm helping took about the same 2-2.5ml dose of the Aurora Indica/olive oil that night (so the Blue Blood became their daytime oil and the Aurora Indica became their night time oil). They had a better night sleep that night, however, they didn't get out of bed until almost midday as they were still feeling dizzy from the dose they took about 16 hours earlier. I think they reduced the night time dose at first but now I think they're taking about 3-4ml three times a day. Interestingly, the only other time they really had any side effects was when they took the dose on an empty stomach.

After this I did one final extraction with the plant material left which was a bit over 300g of Blue Blood and a little bit of Aurora Indica. In the end I combined about 325g of plant material with 500ml of macadamia oil again and recovered at least as much as I did in the first extraction (about 350-400ml). I used the macadamia oil as the olive oil seemed to be difficult to get out of the bottle when it's refrigerated (I'm not sure what happens but it seems to gel up or partially solidify). After I finished this extraction I tested it and it seemed to have a stronger reaction for CBD than the first extraction, I can't be certain as I will need to do a more accurate test, but my gut feeling is it's more potent. It also doesn't appear to have any problem being refrigerated, so I have no idea why the olive oil extract does. The person I'm helping hasn't taken any of this oil yet so I'll have to wait and see how they respond to it and what dose they take.

I haven't had a chance to test anything for THC yet, but hopefully I will soon, and hopefully I'll be able to do a more accurate comparison to see how the different oils compare.

As far as separating the oil from the water, I had an idea you may be interested in.

Try to picture a 2l soft drink bottle like the ones used to make 2l hempy buckets (an example of which is here). Instead of cutting off the top of the bottle, cut off the bottom 30mm or so, replace the screw top lid with a valve/tap, and add a length of clear (food safe) pipe on the other side of the valve/tap. You then turn it upside down so the open bottom of the bottle is now the open top and support it with some sort of frame so you can fill it with liquid (as long as the valve/tap is closed).

Next, you need to get a strainer that can hold all the plant material easily and line it with something like cheesecloth. The strainer needs to be able to be supported by the bottle so that anything poured in to the strainer drains in to the bottle.

To separate the oil from the water you simply pour the water/oil/plant material in to the strainer (while it's still warm/hot) and allow it to drain in to the bottle. When it's done you put a large container under the pipe and open the valve/tap to let the water drain out. Just before the oil starts to drain you close the valve/tap to stop the flow, replace the large container with a small container, open the valve/tap slightly to get the last of the water and the very first bit of the oil in to the small container, close the valve/tap to stop the flow, replace the small container with what you want to store the oil in, and open the valve/tap to drain the oil in to that container. Obviously make sure that you close the valve/tap when as much of the oil has drained out as possible.

To get any remaining oil in the pressure cooker you can boil some water in a kettle, pour it in to the pressure cooker, and pour that through the strainer with the valve/tap closed. If there's too much water then you can put the large container under the pipe and open the tap to let out most of the water.

To get any remaining oil in the strainer you can use the kettle and pour hot water in to the strainer similar to getting any remaining oil out of the pressure cooker.

After that you can drain the majority of the water in to the large container, the last bit of water/first bit of oil in to a small container, and any remaining oil in to the container you want to store it in.

If there's still oil in the bottle then some more hot water should hopefully help get it out.

Finally, recover any oil in the small container, possibly by using a syringe or something similar to remove the water at the bottom and then collect the remaining oil.

This is just a way to describe the concept, I'm not suggesting using a 2l bottle as it probably won't be the right size for any suitable strainer and may not be big enough for the liquid, so just imagine something that looks like what I've described as opposed to an actual bottle. I haven't had a chance to try this yet, I have to see if I can find things that I can use to do it this way.
 
Thread starter #192

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
The potency of the starting material is very important of course, and makes more of a discernible difference when ingested than when smoked.. at least in my experience. Usually using this route the oil is absorbed slowly and gradually through the digestive tract and that actually softens the effect somewhat (unless you take too much of course!), and that really comes into play if the oil isn't so potent.
Next to that, on more than one occasion, i've experienced that after taking some oil during the day, the effect would come on in the evening. So consider that a delayed effect is also possible.

Olive oil partly solidifies when refrigerated, yes. Sometimes no but that depends on the oil.. in any case its normal. That's why its best to keep a smaller amount for daily use at room temperature. It won't go bad quite that quickly so don't worry. Weeks on end probably isn't a problem.

Cool idea with the bottle and valve. Someone actually mentioned something similar to me a short while back so i'll probably whir something up. Although concerning oil recovery.. i pretty much always get 0.85 of the oil back. I thought the pressure cooker gave me 0.9 but that was because a little more sediment gets in. Are you squeezing/straining the cooked bud thoroughly and using hot water to rinse/squeeze the oil off of it?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I agree, nice idea with the bottle and valve fookinel. I'll be interested to see what you whip up PsyCro. I can see I'll be on the lookout for something that'd work.

Thanks for the thorough accounting fookinel. :5:
 
Next to that, on more than one occasion, i've experienced that after taking some oil during the day, the effect would come on in the evening. So consider that a delayed effect is also possible.
Can you remember if you did anything different between the times you experienced a delayed effect and the times you didn't?

Olive oil partly solidifies when refrigerated, yes. Sometimes no but that depends on the oil.. in any case its normal. That's why its best to keep a smaller amount for daily use at room temperature. It won't go bad quite that quickly so don't worry. Weeks on end probably isn't a problem.
The person I'm helping takes some out of the fridge and keeps it at room temperature. I can say that so far the macadamia oil has been fine just keeping it in the fridge (it hasn't solidified yet). If I can find a cold-pressed canola oil (as they often use solvent to extract the oil) then I'll give it a try and see how it goes. I'm also looking at other oils to see if there's any other readily available oils that are high in the monounsaturated fats and low in the saturated fats (and probably polyunsaturated fats as they tend to be less stable at higher temps).

Are you squeezing/straining the cooked bud thoroughly and using hot water to rinse/squeeze the oil off of it?
The last extraction I felt was the best. I poured everything from the pressure cooker in to a reasonably fine stainless steel strainer and drained the water and oil in to a large plastic container. When most of the water and oil had drained from the strainer I put the strainer back in to the pressure cooker so I didn't lose any oil. I used a baster to remove most of the water layer (which I put in to another pot in case any oil came along with it) and then I poured the oil in to a bottle. I then boiled some water in a kettle and used that to get any remaining oil/plant material out of the pressure cooker and in to the strainer. I think I did this a few times as I had to keep putting the strainer back in the pressure cooker while I removed the excess water and got the oil in to the bottle. After that I poured hot water through the strainer until there was hardly anything left. I think I did squeeze the plant material in the strainer a few times as well, in the end I think I got about as much oil as I was going to get constantly moving things from one pot/container to another.
 

Radogast

Grow Journal of the Month: April 2017
There is a type of pitcher used in cooking known as a "fat separator" or "gravy separator", available at cooking stores. Most of them are the pitcher type where the pouring happens from the bottom of the pitcher instead of the top of the pitcher. Others are more akin to chemistry labs and distilling equipment, where the jar drains from the bottom with a petcock to start and stop the flow of liquid. The petcock can be more precise since you can watch the line of separation and only have a few ml of mixed water and oil.

A fat separator might be a useful thing for your idea.
 
PsyCro, I just wanted to get your thoughts on using essential oils. At the moment I have extracts from two indica dominant strains (Blue Blood and Aurora Indica) which the person I'm helping finds makes them very tired. I started some C99 a while ago and I have some more sativa dominant strains to get started but they won't be ready for a while yet.

I've been trying to understand what the reasons are behind indica strains for relaxation and sativa strains for a more energy and some information suggests it has to do with terpenes and some information suggests it has to do with cannabinoid content/harvest time.

At the moment I have some more Blue Blood and Aurora Indica that have been flowering for almost 7 weeks. I'm planning to harvest them early (at the 7 week mark) and add some essential oils to help make the extract less tiring.

From what I understand you've been adding 1 drop of lemongrass (myrcene) and 1 drop of orange (limonene) per 10ml of day time extract and 1 drop of lemongrass (myrcene) and 1 drop of lavender (linalool) per 10ml of night time extract and that you used Tutankhamon and CBD Nordle combinations in there as well (the extra CBD seemingly helping with the night time extract).

Do you have any idea/experience if adding orange (and possibly lemongrass) oil to an early harvested indica could help reduce the tiring effect (particularly with the Aurora Indica and it's lower CBD content)?

Do you have any thoughts on anything else I can do to reduce the tiring effect from the extracts?

As I've been looking in to essential oils I was also looking for a good source of beta-caryophyllene. It turns out that Copaiba essential oil is particularly high in beta-caryophyllene and has been used medicinally for some time. Anyway, just letting you know in case you have a use for it in your extracts as there are claims that beta-caryophyllene is anti-inflammatory.
 
Thread starter #199

PsyCro

Well-Known Member
As far as harvest time is concerned, it is my understanding that not all strains function the same way so beware.. you might only loose potency going too long or harvesting early to get a certain effect. Strain type is the way to go rather than harvest time when trying to achieve a certain effect.

Concerning essential oils yes, i use 2 drops per 10ml, or even just one. From my rough calculations way back that is more than enough, and mimics natural terpene content in cannabis. Other than that i've read that up to 2 drops daily is a healthy limit for ingestion. Some say more but i say err on the safe side.. and as i mentioned its enough to mimic natural terpene content anyways.

I'm sure you've studied which terpenes affect the high and how, but just in case one link:
Terpenes: The Flavors of Cannabis Aromatherapy | Leafly

Limonene will definitely help, i'd try more of that.

Other than that, more CBD in the extract will balance out the sedative effect. In this way its similar to THCa, they both offer a bit of stimulation.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
PsyCro, I just wanted to get your thoughts on using essential oils. At the moment I have extracts from two indica dominant strains (Blue Blood and Aurora Indica) which the person I'm helping finds makes them very tired. I started some C99 a while ago and I have some more sativa dominant strains to get started but they won't be ready for a while yet.

I've been trying to understand what the reasons are behind indica strains for relaxation and sativa strains for a more energy and some information suggests it has to do with terpenes and some information suggests it has to do with cannabinoid content/harvest time.

At the moment I have some more Blue Blood and Aurora Indica that have been flowering for almost 7 weeks. I'm planning to harvest them early (at the 7 week mark) and add some essential oils to help make the extract less tiring.

From what I understand you've been adding 1 drop of lemongrass (myrcene) and 1 drop of orange (limonene) per 10ml of day time extract and 1 drop of lemongrass (myrcene) and 1 drop of lavender (linalool) per 10ml of night time extract and that you used Tutankhamon and CBD Nordle combinations in there as well (the extra CBD seemingly helping with the night time extract).

Do you have any idea/experience if adding orange (and possibly lemongrass) oil to an early harvested indica could help reduce the tiring effect (particularly with the Aurora Indica and it's lower CBD content)?

Do you have any thoughts on anything else I can do to reduce the tiring effect from the extracts?

As I've been looking in to essential oils I was also looking for a good source of beta-caryophyllene. It turns out that Copaiba essential oil is particularly high in beta-caryophyllene and has been used medicinally for some time. Anyway, just letting you know in case you have a use for it in your extracts as there are claims that beta-caryophyllene is anti-inflammatory.
This was an incredibly insightful discussion for me gentlemen. Thank you fookinel for the info on Copaiba essential oil. In my recent studies this cannabinoid is the one everyone's starting to get really excited about.