dynamo1
Photo of the Month: May 2018
What is LSL?
Olive oil extract update
- Thread starter PsyCro
- Start date
What is LSL?
Sorry, sometimes we forget.
Liquid Sunflower Lecithin. It's one of our not-so-secret weapons in the healer's toolbox. Used correctly it'll encapsulate the cannabinoids and the carrier oil they're bonded to in a way that hastens their absorbtion and thereby potentiates the medicinal value by making the oil much more bioavailable.
I keep laughing at how this "hobby" has forced me to find storage space for multiple pieces of equipment.
My dear friend will be returning from her road trip just in time to loan me her pressure cooker so that I may more easily prepare my harvest oils. Equipment I don't have to pay for and is on indefinate loan.
Sometimes the universe surprises me at how quickly it does things like that.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...
My Ongoing battle with controlling loss: My first inclination was to use oil only Coconut, or olive, and never add water. I didn't want water getting in the way of the extraction. I was at first leaving 12% oil by volume behind in the dregs. I began rigging up all sorts of leveraged squeezing devices to cut that loss; and I did, to about 8%. Still too high to be economical for me. So, in desperation, I began squeezing out all I could with just a muddler pressing on a steel mesh screen. Then I left the dregs in the screen & put it over a larger beaker & started pouring 150-180 f (65-82c) water thru it and pressing again with muddler. I would try for better than 10-1 water to oil remaining trapped ratio. Then I figured if there was 10 ml of liquid trapped in the dregs, only 1 ml would be oil & call it good enough. And that worked. Of course I refrigerate the oil-water mix and separate. BUT, I found that the water was picking up chlorophyll & other nasty impurities and making the canna oil taste unbelievably bad, I mean awful. I rewarmed the oil and rewashed and it was slightly better but still bad. I don't like all the reheating & reprocessing. So, I'm back to no water for now. Any ideas?
PS: If you have an abundance of mtl, it's not such a big deal. But, if like me you are in an area where the cost per g is about the same as CO high thc buds BUT the quality is only 8-9%, waste is a serious issue. Cause I'm paying way more per mg of thc. Make sense?
My Ongoing battle with controlling loss: My first inclination was to use oil only Coconut, or olive, and never add water. I didn't want water getting in the way of the extraction. I was at first leaving 12% oil by volume behind in the dregs. I began rigging up all sorts of leveraged squeezing devices to cut that loss; and I did, to about 8%. Still too high to be economical for me. So, in desperation, I began squeezing out all I could with just a muddler pressing on a steel mesh screen. Then I left the dregs in the screen & put it over a larger beaker & started pouring 150-180 f (65-82c) water thru it and pressing again with muddler. I would try for better than 10-1 water to oil remaining trapped ratio. Then I figured if there was 10 ml of liquid trapped in the dregs, only 1 ml would be oil & call it good enough. And that worked. Of course I refrigerate the oil-water mix and separate. BUT, I found that the water was picking up chlorophyll & other nasty impurities and making the canna oil taste unbelievably bad, I mean awful. I rewarmed the oil and rewashed and it was slightly better but still bad. I don't like all the reheating & reprocessing. So, I'm back to no water for now. Any ideas?
PS: If you have an abundance of mtl, it's not such a big deal. But, if like me you are in an area where the cost per g is about the same as CO high thc buds BUT the quality is only 8-9%, waste is a serious issue. Cause I'm paying way more per mg of thc. Make sense?
Re: Olive oil extract update...
Using an efficient press and boiling water you'll get almost all of it out Kicknitup. I still haven't reached maximum, but I'm getting better at it with every run. Keep in mind that this oil is more potent than others, so you can use less per dose and get more therapeutic value.
If you use the oil in capsules the taste is a non-issue, although I like the taste of my own oils. That may be the strains I use. I'm probably growing much better quality than you can purchase.
I personally haven't gone to the pressure cooker, because I have concerns about the added water. Others have and are quite happy with the results. In all cases, this oil has been found by those trying it to be superior in effect to regular infused oils.
Using an efficient press and boiling water you'll get almost all of it out Kicknitup. I still haven't reached maximum, but I'm getting better at it with every run. Keep in mind that this oil is more potent than others, so you can use less per dose and get more therapeutic value.
If you use the oil in capsules the taste is a non-issue, although I like the taste of my own oils. That may be the strains I use. I'm probably growing much better quality than you can purchase.
I personally haven't gone to the pressure cooker, because I have concerns about the added water. Others have and are quite happy with the results. In all cases, this oil has been found by those trying it to be superior in effect to regular infused oils.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...
Oh I'm getting close to all of it with with hot water wash at end. But, as I said, Im picking up some foul stuff with the water that was not happening with oil only. ALSO, keep in mind, because of the potency problem of starting material, it's tough to get the strength much above 12mg/ml so for a 100mg plus dose I'm having to use 10 ml of the oil per dose. Thats without doing a double run or frankly, the way I bump it up is by decarbing some BHO and stirring it in. lol. If you brew up something as strong as some I've read about on here, you don't have to use enough oil to matter with taste.
Oh I'm getting close to all of it with with hot water wash at end. But, as I said, Im picking up some foul stuff with the water that was not happening with oil only. ALSO, keep in mind, because of the potency problem of starting material, it's tough to get the strength much above 12mg/ml so for a 100mg plus dose I'm having to use 10 ml of the oil per dose. Thats without doing a double run or frankly, the way I bump it up is by decarbing some BHO and stirring it in. lol. If you brew up something as strong as some I've read about on here, you don't have to use enough oil to matter with taste.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...
Hi all,
I'm still fighting the mechanics of this board. I don't get it. This has happened several times. I reply to someone by "reply with quote". I get finished & hit "post quick reply". It looks so simple. but this morning the reply to SweetSue I did yesterday afternoon still did not have a post #. So, Im guessing it did not really post. It was still on screen so I copied content then deleted it, pasted it back into a new reply and bam, it's instantly #226! What in the world am I missing here?
Hi all,
I'm still fighting the mechanics of this board. I don't get it. This has happened several times. I reply to someone by "reply with quote". I get finished & hit "post quick reply". It looks so simple. but this morning the reply to SweetSue I did yesterday afternoon still did not have a post #. So, Im guessing it did not really post. It was still on screen so I copied content then deleted it, pasted it back into a new reply and bam, it's instantly #226! What in the world am I missing here?
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if anyone has lab tested this method/ratio? The method can't be off too much. That's for sure. Mostly asking because I'm curious what mg/ml you are aiming at. Forget testing for a moment and just let me know if this is your ratio intent.... Psycro set this up on 400g/liter of oil, equating to 100g dry mtl. That sounds like 15mg/ml without accounting for what does not convert. So before I go further contributing to this discussion, is this sounding about right? Am I on the same page with you all or have I missed something???
I'm not sure what the problem is you're having with posting. If it continues snag a mod and ask for some clarification. They typically respond quickly.
Using an extraction efficiency of 85% and a THC value of 10% I calculate this oil out to around 17 mg/ml, but that doesn't mean what it means with other oils. This oil is much more potent. That 10% is going to have almost twice the therapeutic effect in my opinion.
No one yet has had any of the FHO tested. I recommend olive oil, for the increased medicinal values as well as the absorbtion into the lymphatic system. This frees up more cannabinoids to work their magic than coconut oil does, although coconut is tastier. Cajuncelt recently warned us that coconut oil is beginning to cause unexpected complications in some patient populations. I'm thinking compromised immune systems would be better served with olive oil.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
[Using an extraction efficiency of 85% and a THC value of 10% I calculate this oil out to around 17 mg/ml, but that doesn't mean what it means with other oils. This oil is much more potent. That 10% is going to have almost twice the therapeutic effect in my opinion.
No one yet has had any of the FHO tested. I recommend olive oil, for the increased medicinal values as well as the absorbtion into the lymphatic system. This frees up more cannabinoids to work their magic than coconut oil does, although coconut is tastier. Cajuncelt recently warned us that coconut oil is beginning to cause unexpected complications in some patient populations. I'm thinking compromised immune systems would be better served with olive oil.[/QUOTE][/I]
I will be looking at Cajuncelt's info regarding the medical side. I have been focusing on the rec side, hence coconut oil. However, my mission is twofold because of my friend with brain cancer. Thanks to this board, I now see that olive oil should be explored as well for medical. Other than that, I have been focusing on efficient extraction, regardless of use.
Now, about the potency. Not concerning myself with the added benefits of the FHO right this second...don't get me wrong, I'd be shocked if there wasn't added bennies there. I just wanted to make sure we are using the same math when figuring mg/ml. You just used the example: Using an extraction efficiency of 85% and a THC value of 10% I calculate this oil out to around 17 mg/ml,
I assume we are stile talking about the equivalent of 100g starting mtl and 1000ml oil. If not, well, we need to redefine already. I was assuming 15% total thc in the starting mtl because you guys are awesome growers. But lets use your # @10%.
So to restate the math problem as I would see it (looking for a correction here if needed, that's the point):
100g buds @10% thc = 10,000mg thc x 85% extraction rate = 8,500mg thc into 1000ml (1 liter) olive oil. So, 8,500mg/1000ml = 8.5mg/ml. Thats what I get. you are coming up with exactly twice that @17/mg/ml. Where are we drifting apart here?
No one yet has had any of the FHO tested. I recommend olive oil, for the increased medicinal values as well as the absorbtion into the lymphatic system. This frees up more cannabinoids to work their magic than coconut oil does, although coconut is tastier. Cajuncelt recently warned us that coconut oil is beginning to cause unexpected complications in some patient populations. I'm thinking compromised immune systems would be better served with olive oil.[/QUOTE][/I]
I will be looking at Cajuncelt's info regarding the medical side. I have been focusing on the rec side, hence coconut oil. However, my mission is twofold because of my friend with brain cancer. Thanks to this board, I now see that olive oil should be explored as well for medical. Other than that, I have been focusing on efficient extraction, regardless of use.
Now, about the potency. Not concerning myself with the added benefits of the FHO right this second...don't get me wrong, I'd be shocked if there wasn't added bennies there. I just wanted to make sure we are using the same math when figuring mg/ml. You just used the example: Using an extraction efficiency of 85% and a THC value of 10% I calculate this oil out to around 17 mg/ml,
I assume we are stile talking about the equivalent of 100g starting mtl and 1000ml oil. If not, well, we need to redefine already. I was assuming 15% total thc in the starting mtl because you guys are awesome growers. But lets use your # @10%.
So to restate the math problem as I would see it (looking for a correction here if needed, that's the point):
100g buds @10% thc = 10,000mg thc x 85% extraction rate = 8,500mg thc into 1000ml (1 liter) olive oil. So, 8,500mg/1000ml = 8.5mg/ml. Thats what I get. you are coming up with exactly twice that @17/mg/ml. Where are we drifting apart here?
PsyCro's directions were for 400 grams of fresh material for every 500 ml of oil used. That calculates out in my world to 100 grams dry material to the 500 ml of carrier oil. That gives twice the value of your calculation. It's just a matter of the oil volume.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
And there it is. I remember the 500ml # on page one. But somewhere I was seeing 1 liter as quantity later in discussion (I sure hope I did, LOL). But that's fine! Because it does verify that we are using the same math. I just felt like that needed to be established. You brewed up that FHO with a wicked amount of mtl/oil! But I'm thinking that you were using the whole plant so, thc # not relevant to the amount of starting mtl. You were just looking for xtra goodies. Back on solid ground. lol.
Kicknitup1
Well-Known Member
"The ratio I used is 400grams MJ to one liter of oil. That’s about 100grams dry going by what I dried for personal use. Any more bud than that just won’t fit. As I put the bud into the oil I used an immersion blender to grind it down and make space; this is the only way to make so much fresh bud fit into the oil.
Second, cooking! The temperature I used was 105 degrees Celsius for 2 hours. I found this study which basically confirms other findings on the net. And considering that some terpenes are volatile already at 119 degrees, 105 looked perfect."
Sue, that's the quote I was going by> Post #3 quote. Maybe I got lost. But it was post #3 at beginning of thread.
Second, cooking! The temperature I used was 105 degrees Celsius for 2 hours. I found this study which basically confirms other findings on the net. And considering that some terpenes are volatile already at 119 degrees, 105 looked perfect."
Sue, that's the quote I was going by> Post #3 quote. Maybe I got lost. But it was post #3 at beginning of thread.
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
Re: Olive oil extract update...
Ive experienced this with a weak internet connection. Reply doesnt always make it to the website.
Ive experienced this with a weak internet connection. Reply doesnt always make it to the website.
To be perfectly honest Kicknitup, I didn't realize until you posted that my brain had translated 1 ltr into 500 ml. No wonder my oil is so potent. It's twice the strength of the original recipe. Lol! I'll need to make a note to that effect on the FHO thread.
That being said, I don't think I'll change my ratios. I've been using this potency with my patients and they're both responding in dramatic ways to it. I'd be hesitant to cut back at all with them.
The potency is regulated by the ratio of starting materials, so it's very adaptable.
VerdantSpires
Well-Known Member
From previous reading, I had concluded that for launching an all-out attack on cancer it is necessary to produce CCO by extracting the oil using a solvent such as Ever Clear and evaporating that solvent. But this informative thread seems to demonstrate it may be feasible to do the extraction directly into olive oil and medicate with, say, 20 ml of that oil extract per day. Divided into 4 or 5 doses of 4 mls each, this seems eminently feasible. It might be too much to try to take sublingually, though?
Have I got this right?
Have I got this right?
Oldbear
Well-Known Member
From previous reading, I had concluded that for launching an all-out attack on cancer it is necessary to produce CCO by extracting the oil using a solvent such as Ever Clear and evaporating that solvent. But this informative thread seems to demonstrate it may be feasible to do the extraction directly into olive oil and medicate with, say, 20 ml of that oil extract per day. Divided into 4 or 5 doses of 4 mls each, this seems eminently feasible. It might be too much to try to take sublingually, though?
Have I got this right?
You have it right that extraction into olive oil and liquid sunflower lecithin works very well.
The amount to take in a day or individual dose depends on the concentration of cannabinoids in the solution, and how strong you want each dose to be.
I agree - 4 mls of mixture by mouth is a lot to take at once. When Ive tried anything over 1 I tend to swallow it too quickly because the saliva pumps go in to overdrive.
Constant intake of low cannabis doses is proving to be a very effective treatment protocol. 1 ml of your mixture every hour or so for example. If you extend it to 2 hours, then you can take it just after a little meal and hydration break every 2 hours which is much better for us anyway.
From previous reading, I had concluded that for launching an all-out attack on cancer it is necessary to produce CCO by extracting the oil using a solvent such as Ever Clear and evaporating that solvent. But this informative thread seems to demonstrate it may be feasible to do the extraction directly into olive oil and medicate with, say, 20 ml of that oil extract per day. Divided into 4 or 5 doses of 4 mls each, this seems eminently feasible. It might be too much to try to take sublingually, though?
Have I got this right?
Yes you do VerdantSpires. That was PsyCro's contention from the beginning. The fresh harvest oil thread was started to get brilliant minds brainstorming for ways to improve the process and come up with consistent success. If there's a way to get past the expensive and hard to come by ethanol solvent I'm all for pursuing it.
This can easily be done with a capsule regimen, which also gives you the opportunity to use them in stronger doses as suppositories.
VerdantSpires
Well-Known Member
Right on! In some countries the high % alcoholic drink is not even legal.
So it's still feasible to fill capsules with the comparatively-dilute olive oil extract? That was my next concern. If the daily dose is divided half by mouth and half by suppository, it sounds like it should be manageable. Good!
Right on! In some countries the high % alcoholic drink is not even legal.
So it's still feasible to fill capsules with the comparatively-dilute olive oil extract? That was my next concern. If the daily dose is divided half by mouth and half by suppository, it sounds like it should be manageable. Good!
Cajun recommends 75% of the dose with suppositories and 25% by mouth. I'm pretty certain KR recommends a higher percentage by suppositories. If you're using suppositories the only need for oral would be a small tack to precede the major dose. That'd probably calculate out to less than 25%.
