Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

[Blazinjones]

See, you are doing all the right things. I would add one more: put some distance - your choice how much distance - between you and those who are actively discouraging you and offering temptation instead of support. It is perfectly OK to do whether they are acquaintances, friends, or especially family. You may miss out on the summer BBQ but you will gain so much more and it's part of taking care of yourself. You'll get guilt trips if you keep limited contact but it's worth it for your well-being. Those who woller in their own shit can't stand to see someone else get clean. They will drag you down into the muck just to make excuses for themselves. It is a vicious and cruel thing.

Awesome of the sponsorship and that you'll be making your own journal. Count me in!

Yea only problem with tht is it's my mom n uncle now 2. As of last week him an his gf lost there place an he started havn seizures an shit n needed somewhere they could put there new trailer while they find land to buy some how. An now with him having seizures an his gf has major health issues I didnt want them to have the 2 kids be homeless with them. An which they are my niece and nephew who I've pretty much helpd raise since they were born. So I got guilt tripped into letting g them put there trailer in my land while they find land which they will need rent to own cause my uncle is on disability an the gf has 2 many health issues to work or so she says so they jus got his check an the kids check from them havn a dad who is disabled. I guess the state gives them checks 2 but the parents take it an waste my uncle is a dam drunk an my aunt is pretty much a legal junkie. They have these fukn places around here called methadone clinics an they jus give u rediculous amounts of it for free u jus gotta show up to the clinic each day but if u work ur way up the program which means jus be clean of weed u can eventually work ur way to getting more take home doses so u would only need to go in once a week an get a week worth of ur meds. Now get this u can shoot heroin and do dope still an move up the program but not weed if u do any herb then u gotta start over an that means coming in everyday to dose. Which for my aunt is 2 hours away well 1.5 the way she drives lol oh an u gotta be there early as shit cause there is a line 2 miles long an once it hits 1 or 2pm they close for the day weather u get ur dose or not. But she gets there at 430 am as soon as they r opening g doors and they still already have a slight line. But yea with them like that I didnt want the kids on there own so I said yes they all could stay. Plus no1 will watch my grandparents an I jus cant bring myself to put them in a dam home that's like prison for fukn old people. But shit I'd be lieing straight threw my dam teeth if I said I dont think about it. I mean shit they are jus getting so mean in there old age an going completely bat shit crazy. An then to have my mom taking advantage of me all the time taking my money I make from gettn rid of any smoke or tryn to steal my pills or guilt trip me into giving her some of mine cause she takes hers or gets rid of them or sumthn idk I doubt she gets rid of them I'm pretty sure she is jus taking more then she needs cause I dnt see her getn rid of shit with how bad she acts jus to get one from me at times. Then if I dont help every1 out bolt jesus I'm jus an ass hole mean piece of shit that holds everything over every1 I guess but it's kinda hard not to say anything g about it when every1 acts this way all the time. An when the rare times come around when I actually start feeling like u no what screw this I've had enough I'm done I'm guna kick em all out I've had it. They go an fukn do something completely nice an like try an buy my affection back or or like a bribe or sumthn to like forget it or sumthn idk but they act like whatever it is should jus wipe everything away an now it all never happened or some shit like tht lol. An it even gets worse then all this at times. But shit I've went on a huge rant an jus kinda burst right there lol sorry bout tht appearntly I needed to vent alil lol. But yea thank you every1 for being here an helping me so much an jus being a listening ear or screen or whatever u get it lol . Its nice having some one to be able 2 ask for grow help to Learn new things am jus to be able 2 talk. But having some one to talk to about the garden is even better cause of where I live I have no1 anymore tht does this stuff that I could talk with. Plus it's nice being able to show off my girls lmao. I never thought I would be someone who first off liked to garden and second trying to win contests for gardening an saying things like dang I wish I could show off my girls more often hahahaha .

 

[Blazinjones]

You guys make me so proud to be part of this.



I’m thinking a strong sativa-dominant may be your ticket for days Jones. I like that Carnival I’m so fond of because it gives a clearheaded high with lots of creative motivation, and everyone I gave it to for pain really appreciated the relief they found. They all called it “the good stuff.”

I agree with Al on the Northern Lights too because I too have yet to meet a consumer of the buds that wasn’t pleased with results and slept well.

I’ve been on the end of flailing arms. Make the cream Jones. That’s a frightening thing to have to watch out for when you’re the sleeping spouse.

And please..... look over the tapering schedule Al offered and notice how effective it could be. Tapering off Fentanyl is a s-l-o-w process for a reason. You spoke of the frustration of feeling like you’re fighting yourself with wanting to let go and yet being tied to the need. This, pure and simple, is the physical addiction phase of the drug, and why it’s necessary to taper off so slowly. You can’t stop the addiction. Instead we train the body to need less and less with a long, drawn out, s-l-o-w taper until the addiction is a faint memory of past history.

Is your pain doctor on board with what you’re attempting? Have they given you any guidelines on reducing your doses?

Well no not really since he jus quit an told me I had 2 weeks to find a new doctor he atleast gave me the months meds so I would have 30 days to find a doc otherwise I'm screwd. so I've been tryn to find anything I can on the street unfortunately which is super weird since I'm having to talk with family I never do an specially never about this. An so it's kinda a good thing my aunt goes to the methadone clinic cause she helpn me with some of that if I needed it but I havnt took it yet I got it still sitting in an old medication bottle in my bathroom. But I'm keeping it in case I need it if I dnt find a doc in time. But I've been tryn to take only the bare minimum to keep the withdrawal at bay an slowly taper off. An since the past 5 docs I've had apointments with these past 2 weeks an the 2 pain management places/docs I went to once they see herb in my system they say they dont feel comfortable giving me such high doses of medications. And the others said since I have drugs in my system they dont feel safe mixing my narcotics I would need with the weed in my system. So idk maybe/hopefully nex Wednesday will go better with the next doc I'm going to see.

 

[BeanTownFan420]

 

[Alafornia]

Yea only problem with tht is it's my mom n uncle now 2. As of last week him an his gf lost there place an he started havn seizures an shit n needed somewhere they could put there new trailer while they find land to buy some how. An now with him having seizures an his gf has major health issues I didnt want them to have the 2 kids be homeless with them. An which they are my niece and nephew who I've pretty much helpd raise since they were born. So I got guilt tripped into letting g them put there trailer in my land while they find land which they will need rent to own cause my uncle is on disability an the gf has 2 many health issues to work or so she says so they jus got his check an the kids check from them havn a dad who is disabled. I guess the state gives them checks 2 but the parents take it an waste my uncle is a dam drunk an my aunt is pretty much a legal junkie. They have these fukn places around here called methadone clinics an they jus give u rediculous amounts of it for free u jus gotta show up to the clinic each day but if u work ur way up the program which means jus be clean of weed u can eventually work ur way to getting more take home doses so u would only need to go in once a week an get a week worth of ur meds. Now get this u can shoot heroin and do dope still an move up the program but not weed if u do any herb then u gotta start over an that means coming in everyday to dose. Which for my aunt is 2 hours away well 1.5 the way she drives lol oh an u gotta be there early as shit cause there is a line 2 miles long an once it hits 1 or 2pm they close for the day weather u get ur dose or not. But she gets there at 430 am as soon as they r opening g doors and they still already have a slight line. But yea with them like that I didnt want the kids on there own so I said yes they all could stay. Plus no1 will watch my grandparents an I jus cant bring myself to put them in a dam home that's like prison for fukn old people. But shit I'd be lieing straight threw my dam teeth if I said I dont think about it. I mean shit they are jus getting so mean in there old age an going completely bat shit crazy. An then to have my mom taking advantage of me all the time taking my money I make from gettn rid of any smoke or tryn to steal my pills or guilt trip me into giving her some of mine cause she takes hers or gets rid of them or sumthn idk I doubt she gets rid of them I'm pretty sure she is jus taking more then she needs cause I dnt see her getn rid of shit with how bad she acts jus to get one from me at times. Then if I dont help every1 out bolt jesus I'm jus an ass hole mean piece of shit that holds everything over every1 I guess but it's kinda hard not to say anything g about it when every1 acts this way all the time. An when the rare times come around when I actually start feeling like u no what screw this I've had enough I'm done I'm guna kick em all out I've had it. They go an fukn do something completely nice an like try an buy my affection back or or like a bribe or sumthn to like forget it or sumthn idk but they act like whatever it is should jus wipe everything away an now it all never happened or some shit like tht lol. An it even gets worse then all this at times. But shit I've went on a huge rant an jus kinda burst right there lol sorry bout tht appearntly I needed to vent alil lol. But yea thank you every1 for being here an helping me so much an jus being a listening ear or screen or whatever u get it lol . Its nice having some one to be able 2 ask for grow help to Learn new things am jus to be able 2 talk. But having some one to talk to about the garden is even better cause of where I live I have no1 anymore tht does this stuff that I could talk with. Plus it's nice being able to show off my girls lmao. I never thought I would be someone who first off liked to garden and second trying to win contests for gardening an saying things like dang I wish I could show off my girls more often hahahaha .

Well no not really since he jus quit an told me I had 2 weeks to find a new doctor he atleast gave me the months meds so I would have 30 days to find a doc otherwise I'm screwd. so I've been tryn to find anything I can on the street unfortunately which is super weird since I'm having to talk with family I never do an specially never about this. An so it's kinda a good thing my aunt goes to the methadone clinic cause she helpn me with some of that if I needed it but I havnt took it yet I got it still sitting in an old medication bottle in my bathroom. But I'm keeping it in case I need it if I dnt find a doc in time. But I've been tryn to take only the bare minimum to keep the withdrawal at bay an slowly taper off. An since the past 5 docs I've had apointments with these past 2 weeks an the 2 pain management places/docs I went to once they see herb in my system they say they dont feel comfortable giving me such high doses of medications. And the others said since I have drugs in my system they dont feel safe mixing my narcotics I would need with the weed in my system. So idk maybe/hopefully nex Wednesday will go better with the next doc I'm going to see.

Wow. You're going through it. I hope you can find someone to work with you to wean yourself appropriately.

As for the family drama:

Remember that parasites suck you dry. They care nothing for your well-being. It is perfectly OK for you to pick them off and set them away from yourself.

One thing I've learned in dealing with my own family is that those using others are a-holes until they want something. Then they manipulate your emotions and goodness to get what they want. Then they are ungrateful a-holes again. It's who they are and what they do.

You are not obligated - despite their cries to the contrary - to carry their asses when they won't stand up and walk for themselves. Especially when you are struggling to care for yourself. You have choices to make. IMHO, taking care of yourself is priority number one. Those you love AND love you are number two. Those who manipulate and abuse you are not on the list at all.

Just my 2 cents gleaned from my own experiences.

 

[dynamo1]

sending support vibrations and good will and love Blazin, good luck with finding a doc who will work with you.

 

[SweetSue]

Having watched the panel discussion on opiates and cannabis I now understand what happened to Jones. Pain clinics run by unscrupulous doctors pushing opiates on an unsuspecting population are now closing up shop and moving on to another parasitic pastime.

Jones, keep looking. Have you spoken with your primary care physician about help tapering off the opiates? My thought was you may get more help from him/her if they know you’re weaning off.

As to the family drama..... no one makes you do, say, think, or feel anything you don’t choose to. Decide for yourself how much drama you want in your life and do your best to stay honest with yourself about it. Then clear the clutter and drama out. You don’t have to be their safety net, but if you’re going to assume that role then find a way to feel better about it.

You’re in a position where it’s more important that you watch out for yourself. If the family is sapping your resources it’s acceptable to give them a clearing-out date and hold them to it. There are multiple agencies ready to come to their assistance.

And be careful about negatively branding anyone else caught in the pain cycle and opiate madness. Over 80% of those currently addicted to opiates in our country got started with a prescription from their doctor. It’s a crisis we all share.

 

[Blazinjones]

You’re right to stop trying to please those folk, Blaze. You likely never will and that isn’t entirely on you.
People don’t like change. They’ll get scared and confused when they see yours.
Fuck’em if they can’t take a joke, I say.
Got no further family advice sorry mate families happen to other people. Better that way, for my health. Just saying because - it’s not so bad. It’s not so bad getting well and doing it for yourself and doing what it takes to get there.

Yea I know what ur sayn man i cant fully blame every1 else either i did let them stay here an i do continue to keep helpn out i gotta learn to say no to the fam lol.

 

[Blazinjones]

Having watched the panel discussion on opiates and cannabis I now understand what happened to Jones. Pain clinics run by unscrupulous doctors pushing opiates on an unsuspecting population are now closing up shop and moving on to another parasitic pastime.

Jones, keep looking. Have you spoken with your primary care physician about help tapering off the opiates? My thought was you may get more help from him/her if they know you’re weaning off.

As to the family drama..... no one makes you do, say, think, or feel anything you don’t choose to. Decide for yourself how much drama you want in your life and do your best to stay honest with yourself about it. Then clear the clutter and drama out. You don’t have to be their safety net, but if you’re going to assume that role then find a way to feel better about it.

You’re in a position where it’s more important that you watch out for yourself. If the family is sapping your resources it’s acceptable to give them a clearing-out date and hold them to it. There are multiple agencies ready to come to their assistance.

And be careful about negatively branding anyone else caught in the pain cycle and opiate madness. Over 80% of those currently addicted to opiates in our country got started with a prescription from their doctor. It’s a crisis we all share.

For real that's what I was jus sayn to DD I did let them stay here an i do continue to help i could say no lol. I jus gotta learn how to hold threw with it an not let the guilt get to me lol. It's funny but not but wen my uncle try's to get shit from me he plays the sad sap roll an jus gets u to feel so bad for him. Me an my cuz were sitting laughing about it 2day. When me an my cuz were tryn to smke a bowl 2 ourselves cause we jus smoked abunch with every1 outside n my uncle has a ton of people over I dnt wana keep wasting it cause u dnt even get high. So me an my cuz sneak back inside n my uncle try's to wander in askn for bud to take back out there an I was like no r u kidding me lol an me an my cuz seen him tryn to do the "get u to feel bad 4him thing" an we both say the same time get out an then we jus started laughing lol. But yea I totally understand what ur sayn I'm tryn to clear out as much stress frm my life as I can right now along with tryn to cut out my meds. An no right now I dnt have a doctor I'm tryn to find sum1 who will even be comfortable with givn me my meds long enuf to start cutting down. So far the 4 docs I seen wont even prescribe my meds so I can cut dwn slowly. I got another apointment cumn next month but thts the earliest I can get in somewhere. I did find a doc tht said once I get dwn low enough she wud help me then but that's not till God nos when ya know

 

[DonkeyDick]

Hello again folks.
I’ve made a couple of posts on this thread over the past couple of months.
I couldn’t help noticing my post count today telling me I have made 419 posts.
I thought what better place for my 420th post than here.
Has been good for my health. If what Johann Hari says is right (“Chasing The Scream”. Please read it!) and connection is the opposite of addiction, then we are all in the right place. The last thing I expected from an Internet forum was a sense of connection, but there we are. It wasn’t on my list of reasons for joining 420, rather an unexpected side effect.

My main reason for joining was that I had questions about preparing a pain cream and had to get up here to ask around a little. Well, while I was making up my requisite 50 posts so that I could PM a member, the answers came to me and I was already journaling a grow.

I know we all have our own stories and mine is no more important than anyone’s. I have a couple of more personal reflections to make if you’ll indulge me.

In December last year I spent two weeks in precipitated withdrawal. Cold turkey would have had me right in short measure, but I had asked for help and that was the help I got. So my kidneys and liver shut down. I didn’t urinate for two agonising weeks - my sweat smelled like urine. My liver - I turned grey, then green, then yellow with jaundice.

So no Opioid Replacement Therapy for me. We tried subsequently, but with the same organ reactions I wasn’t keen to pursue.

So with my recent bout of pancreatitis I’ve had a lot of pain. I have lost 35kg and the ability to sleep. Twice I’ve presented to the ED. In my first visit the doctor I saw wasn’t from round here and told me he thought I should be using CBD oil for chronic inflammation. While that confirms how right we are, it added to my frustration because of the bureaucratic palaver in getting a script in this backward backwater.
The second time I presented a doctor hit on the idea of lowering my blood pressure til I passed out so I could get some sleep.

To make a longer story short I’ve made my own infused oil now that my harvest is in. It is keeping my abdo pain at low levels. I made it four days ago and have had two good sleeps since. I’m pretty amazed by it.

Really, then. Thanks to 420 Mag and everyone who contributes!

You’re making the world a better place.
Cheers.

 

[SweetSue]

@DonkeyDick ......

Posts like this reinforce our feeling that this thread may be one of our finest collaborations. I'm so thankful you're finding relief at last. It's my belief that cannabis oils can change the world, but then we all knew that.

I went to dinner with a couple neighbors tonight and before the meal was behind us I'd shared the topical oil I carry in my pocket with both of them.

Infused cannabis oil, 50/50 grape seed/pumpkin seed oils

• SweetSue
• Aug 7, 2019

One of my companions has degenerative cervical vertebrae, and tonight was the first time she could move her neck freely in so many years she couldn't believe it. I'll be supplying her with more ASAP. I can't tease her with it when it's in my power to produce more.

For me the next step will be learning to incorporate essential oils to potentiate the cannabis oils.

May I ask, are you using tumeric at all in your regimen? It has centuries of happy testimonials as to it's pain relieving abilities.

 

[Derbybud]

Hey donkey,
I think you're a rockstar going thru what you went thru trying to get off of the government smack. Keep working at it as it's a daily grind. Best of luck and just give a hollar if you need support or help with anything.

 

[DonkeyDick]

@DonkeyDick ......

Posts like this reinforce our feeling that this thread may be one of our finest collaborations. I'm so thankful you're finding relief at last. It's my belief that cannabis oils can change the world, but then we all knew that.

I went to dinner with a couple neighbors tonight and before the meal was behind us I'd shared the topical oil I carry in my pocket with both of them.

Infused cannabis oil, 50/50 grape seed/pumpkin seed oils

• SweetSue
• Aug 7, 2019

One of my companions has degenerative cervical vertebrae, and tonight was the first time she could move her neck freely in so many years she couldn't believe it. I'll be supplying her with more ASAP. I can't tease her with it when it's in my power to produce more.

For me the next step will be learning to incorporate essential oils to potentiate the cannabis oils.

May I ask, are you using tumeric at all in your regimen? It has centuries of happy testimonials as to it's pain relieving abilities.

Hi Sue. I’m sure your neighbours are very lucky to know you. As are we!
(It was you I needed to ask questions of when I joined 420 ; I since found your excellent tutorial on pain cream)

I am aware of the anti-inflammatory effects of curcumin. I have been eating a lot more turmeric lately, even grating the root onto salads. I think with a low grade situation it is very effective.

I think when pain hits you like a hammer you have to hit it back and I’m finding the oil I made (yes, with your help 420) really gives it a run for its money.

You know what. When a benevolent philanthropist finally builds a pain research institute I’m going to suggest their terpene branch be named the Sweet Sue Wing.

Hey donkey,
I think you're a rockstar going thru what you went thru trying to get off of the government smack. Keep working at it as it's a daily grind. Best of luck and just give a hollar if you need support or help with anything.

Thank you Derbybud. I appreciate your offer, and maybe I’ll PM you sometime when I feel like I’m losing my mind.

So long as microdosing with capsules is working though, I’m getting relief.

Cannabis is just a more life-positive medicine.


Cheers.

 

[Alafornia]

Glad the miracle plant is helping you, Double D.

 

[DonkeyDick]

Glad the miracle plant is helping you, Double D.

Thanks Al.

You just reminded me of something. You know, when I first began reading this thread I was in a worse state than I’m in now. I had found to my horror that people going to _ _ meetings weren’t always there for the right reasons. I had seen people taking vicarious kicks out of other peoples’ distress. Sick people, getting Idon’tknowwhatkindathrills from the desperate and dispossessed.

So I was looking hard for any evidence of the kind up here. Really hard.

You know I found nothing of the kind here. Kind of makes me “itchy” to say so
A lot of good people up here.
Just saying.

 

[Oldbear]

Hello again folks.
I’ve made a couple of posts on this thread over the past couple of months.
I couldn’t help noticing my post count today telling me I have made 419 posts.
I thought what better place for my 420th post than here.
Has been good for my health. If what Johann Hari says is right (“Chasing The Scream”. Please read it!) and connection is the opposite of addiction, then we are all in the right place. The last thing I expected from an Internet forum was a sense of connection, but there we are. It wasn’t on my list of reasons for joining 420, rather an unexpected side effect.

My main reason for joining was that I had questions about preparing a pain cream and had to get up here to ask around a little. Well, while I was making up my requisite 50 posts so that I could PM a member, the answers came to me and I was already journaling a grow.

I know we all have our own stories and mine is no more important than anyone’s. I have a couple of more personal reflections to make if you’ll indulge me.

In December last year I spent two weeks in precipitated withdrawal. Cold turkey would have had me right in short measure, but I had asked for help and that was the help I got. So my kidneys and liver shut down. I didn’t urinate for two agonising weeks - my sweat smelled like urine. My liver - I turned grey, then green, then yellow with jaundice.

So no Opioid Replacement Therapy for me. We tried subsequently, but with the same organ reactions I wasn’t keen to pursue.

So with my recent bout of pancreatitis I’ve had a lot of pain. I have lost 35kg and the ability to sleep. Twice I’ve presented to the ED. In my first visit the doctor I saw wasn’t from round here and told me he thought I should be using CBD oil for chronic inflammation. While that confirms how right we are, it added to my frustration because of the bureaucratic palaver in getting a script in this backward backwater.
The second time I presented a doctor hit on the idea of lowering my blood pressure til I passed out so I could get some sleep.

To make a longer story short I’ve made my own infused oil now that my harvest is in. It is keeping my abdo pain at low levels. I made it four days ago and have had two good sleeps since. I’m pretty amazed by it.

Really, then. Thanks to 420 Mag and everyone who contributes!

You’re making the world a better place.
Cheers.

Great story thanks for sharing.

 

[PCaddict]

Cannabis

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

The gateway drug OFF of opioids

Tapering Off Opioids for Pain Relief with Dr. Gregory Smith a Green Flower Media class

Decreasing or quitting opioid medications using medical cannabis.

We're all aware by now, aren't we, that our medical profession has created a nightmare of addiction by overprescribing opioid medications? I recently took a class at Green Flower Media on using cannabis to taper down the opioid dose with the hope of getting completely away from these medications that were only meant for short-term use of around two weeks.

Some Perspective

The US has 5% of the world's population but uses 80% of the opioid medications prescribed. There's been a four-fold increase in prescription opioid deaths since the year 2000, causing over 40 deaths a day, most as a result of a patient taking too much of the opioid medication. Research shows that opioids are ineffective for the long-term treatment of chronic pain. The epidemic is caused by prescription-writing practices of physicians stimulated by the marketing practices of pharmaceutical companies.

All of the studies done on opioids were done for two weeks, the length of time the medications are most effective. All of the research on cannabis was done using cannabis with around 25% THC and negligible CBD. The doses were 20-30 mg of THC, multiple times a day

Any negative effects presented by research were done with questionable science. The data of the effectiveness of cannabis as a healing herb overwhelmingly overshadows any parinoid percieved problems that've never really materialized.

There's no correlation between the studies done by our government and how cannabis is used in the real patient world.

The medical community created this opioid dilemma. This is a step towards repairing the damage.

It wasn't until a decade ago that the prescribing practices of physicians began changing. Previously opioids were for end-of-life conditions or for post-surgery. It wasn't until the last couple years, when they were doing studies to show that the opioids could be effective long-term that they discovered the tendency to increase pain perception, the opposite of what they were marketed to do. Long-term opioid use causes increased pain

Pain signalling can be modulated by simply using the power of your mind. After a few weeks the tissues are healing, so the cells are quieting. Pain isn't sharp and knife-like, but dull and achy. This is when opioids can begin to ramp up the pain signal.

Research has shown the severe problems inherent in current opioid use practices. Long-term use actually increases the patient's perception of pain, leading to higher and higher doses of opioids. Patients are regularly being terminated by their pain doctors for testing positive for "illicit substances," usually cannabis.

These opioid-addicted patients end up seeking street opioids to feed their cravings. The cheapest street solution, unfortunately, is heroin. Overdoses of herion add another 26 deaths a day to the climbing numbers of opioid failure.

Opioid tolerance and enhanced pain perception

Opioids are useful following surgery or trauma, and in the beginning, that was how they were used, for short-term pain relief. When used long-term you bring new concerns into the healing space. After a few months patients develop an addiction to the opioids. Their perception of pain is enhanced, so that minor pain is perceived as major pain. The patient's mind calls for more opioids. The harsh reality is that long-term opioid use leads to marked magnification of the pain response.

This is not what you envisioned when your doctor said "Take these every day and come back to see me in three months" was it?

Tolerance comes into play because over time the opioid receptors become desensitized. Now you need more opioids and more frequent dosing times to achieve the same level of relief. After a few months the patient can become so addicted to the opioid medication that discontinuing, or even delaying the taking of a dose, can result in the onset of severe withdrawal symptoms - sickness, pain, undeniable cravings for opioids

Early symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Anxiety/Agitation
* Muscle aches (profusely, throughout the body)
* Increased tearing for no reason
* Insomnia
* A clear, runny nose
* Sweating for unknown reasons
* Craving opioids

Later symptoms of opioid withdrawal
* Intense abdominal pain
* Diarrhea
* Dialated Pupils
* Nausea and vomiting

These sick patients crave the opioids to make the sickness go away, making it difficult for an individual to make the break from opioids on their own. If a patient stops and then restarts an opioid regimen they typically require a higher dose to begin again.

A patient who stops opioids successfully and then later starts again on that same dose can end up dead. During the time away from opioids the tolerance levels are reset. You won't need as much, so if you take that much it could be fatal.

The side effects no one likes to talk about
- Severe, intractable constipation, associated with abdominal bloating, nausea, and colic.
- Decreased testosterone in males to the point where it's common for a long-term patient to need hormonal replacement therapy.
- Depression, a common occurance with long-term use.

These side effects call for the use of other prescription medications that can further complicate the treatment of chronic pain.

I have to say I think this is on point. I was on Methadone for 12 years High doses. I have a Bad back I have foot trouble, Had two operations on them and need a couple more I have arthritics my hands and neck is also in bad shape before I was on Methadone I started with Vicodin then Percocet then started the methadone. I am still in pain and maybe still having withdrawals I have NO energy, my back feet and hands are killing me. I have my MJ card for Ohio and have been using Cannabis for the past 3 or 4 months and it does help while I am well high for lack of a better term but as soon as it wears off the pain fatigue depression and having to go to the bathroom 8 or 9 times a day returns. I don't want to stay high so I have only been using it 2 or 3 times a day. My tolerance for weed got higher so I laid off for ten days and my tolerance went back down. The doctors are going to quit prescribing opioids and only the hospitals will use them or Hospice regular doctors will not be able to prescribe them in the future. That is why they took my off, No tapering just cut off all at once. It was horrible and is still really bad. Now unless I have to use them short term I will not go back to them and go through this all over again...… In Ohio at dispensaries sale 1/10 of an Oz. for $59.99 so that makes it $600 for an Oz. Too much for me to afford so I am trying to grow my own medicine. The Forms have been really helpful so far. I agree that after you are on Opioids they quit helping at the same dose and I agree it actually makes you hurt worse in the long run. I just wanted to add my 2 cents because I have been through what this post is about...…

 

[PCaddict]

Jamaican

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

The Social Setting

There are a million and a half legal medical cannabis patients in the US right now. About 80-90% of them use medical cannabis for chronic pain. Chronic pain is a subjective condition, easily faked to get the prescription, which makes you wonder how many of that number where really pain patients. We believe cannabis should be available freely to all, so I'm not bothered by this, but Dr. Michele Sexton has an ongoing cannabis use survey with Bastyr University.

Of participants identified as medical cannabis users only, 61% used cannabis to manage pain. The second and third noted reasons for using cannabis were anxiety and depression, significant because pain patients often have anxiety and depression.

They did another analysis of this data, asking if patients substituted cannabis for prescribed medications. The survey included 2864 people, and 46% responded "Yes!"

The top medications they were substituting for were narcotics and opiates. The next two types of medications they were substituting for were anti-anxiety and anti-depression medications.

Medical cannabis patients were 4.6 times more likely than non-medical cannabis users to substitute cannabis for pain medications, and women were 6 times more likely to be substituting cannabis for their prescribed pain medications.

I'd say the patients have spoken and it's time someone listen.ped.

Data shows that 10-15% of chronic pain patients are actually using cannabis, in combination with other pain control medications, to reduce the opioid medications. About 80% of medical cannabis users report regular substitution of cannabis for other prescription pain meds, without their doctor's advice, and it's working for them.

With the tide of change concerning cannabis in our country a number of studies have contrasted medical states with non-medical states. Study of years between 1999 - 2010 showed a 30% reduction in opioid overdoses in states with medical cannabis laws. Another study found 28-30% fewer hospitalizations for opioid addiction in medical cannabis states. A study of Medicare and Medicaid patients found a reduction in prescribed pain and anxiety medications in the states with medical cannabis laws.

Studies suggest a patient can expect a 30% reduction in chronic pain using cannabis. This is the same effect one can expect from opioids. A study of patients already taking opioids found a nearly 30-35% reduction in pain perception when cannabis was added to the regimen.

Another study in 2016 showed that using cannabis resulted in a 65% reduction in the use of opioids, fewer side effects, and a remarkable 45% improvement in quality of life.

Yet another study of over 550 pain patients showed a 39% reduction in opioids used and 35% quit using prescription pain medications altogether with the addition of cannabis.

The biggest roadblock to using cannabis to reduce or eliminate opioid use is resistance from the medical community. Over 90% of doctors practicing in this country have never taken a class on or have any experience recommending cannabis. They're clueless to the biology and chemistry. They're concerned about recommending a recreational drug, and their most concerned about repeatable results. Getting cannabis to play by pharma rules isn't the neat transition everyone was hoping for.

In Dr. Smith's experience, doctors prescribing the opioids and benzodiazepines won't be open to the conversation on cannabis. If your doctor won't work with you there are a couple websites that can connect you to qualified, compassionate medical personnel that can work with you and your doctor.

These sites can help you in your search for a cannabis-friendly doctor. They may also be able to help you find a dispensary.
- WeedMaps.com
- MarijuanaDoctors.com
- Leafly.com

You'll need to sign a new opioid contract with your pain Doctor as well as possibly one with the cannabis doctor.

OK, let's learn some basics of the biology. I'll try to be gentle.

I have to say I think the study may be skewed a bit. At least in Ohio a doctor can NOT prescribe opioids to a medical MJ patient so of course the numbers would reflect less opioids because you cant use both in Ohio ! and I am sure it is like that in some other states as well...…

 

[PCaddict]

Carnival

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

Some basic biology

Cannabis is an excellent opioid-sparing medication, in Dr. Smith's opinion, better than the standard medications (mostly OTC) typically prescribed or recommended. Cannabis, along with being opioid-sparing, will treat a number of symptoms that accompany chronic pain and opioid use, like joint pain and inflammation, muscle spasm, anxiety, depression, nausea, constipation, and poor appetite

The goal of an opioid-sparing medication is to
- reduce the level of pain
- reduce the side-effects associated with opioids
- decrease the development of opioid tolerance and the constant need to increase opioid doses
- decrease the number of accidental overdoses, hospitalizations, and death associated with opioids

After successfully introducing cannabis as an opioid-sparing medication the goal is to get the patient completely off opioids. So far, in the clinical world, that seems to be only 60% of those patients. I'd hope we can beat those numbers, but I'll take any percentage.

Your ECS is the braking system for most other systems in the body. It puts the brakes on how much pain we percieve in our brain and how much inflammation, swelling, and muscle spasm is generated when we're sick or injured.

Cannabis helps to spare opioids and to control chronic pain through several mechanisms other than the ECS. There are hundreds of compounds found in cannabis, and they're all working in synergy to heal the stressed system.

In Dr. Smith's regimen dosing is controlled to no more than 10 mg of THC per dose to limit euphoria. You read that right, his patients typically control their pain and taper off opioids on 10 mg or less of THC per dose.

CBD is not euphoric, and doesn't cause dependency that we know of, allowing doses of hundreds of milligrams of CBD numerous times a day. CBD in proper ratio with THC will soften the euphoric effects of THC.

Chronic pain dosing is 1:1, THC:CBD. More on this important point below.

THC modulates the way we percieve pain and may help reducing muscle spasm.

CBD works in the periphery, turning down the inflammatory response and reducing the amount of painful swelling and inflammation at the site of injury.

CBD is an important part of the pain regimen because the entourage effect potentiates the cannabinoids when they're used together. Even small doses of either CBD or THC will enhance the other's performance. Take them together in a ratio that works for you, but take them together.

CBD enhances the ECS by blocking the action of the enzymes charged with degrading cannabinoids, allowing the cannabinoids to circulate. CBD helps create a more balanced endocannabinoid tone in the brain, and also counteracts the euphoric effects of THC, in a high enough ratio.

Cannabinoids make opioids process more efficiently in the brain. Opioid medications mimic endorphins, and by attaching to endorphin receptors in the brain they diminish pain perception. Both THC and CBD work to magnify the effects of opioids

By including cannabis you get reduced pain perception and increased relief from opioids at a reduced dose.. Less opioid used with cannabis = greater relief.

Opioid receptors are in the brain stem, where life can be swiftly terminated. Opioids, in overdose, will depress your breathing, and you'll die. Cannabinoids can't attach to those receptors and there are no endocannabinoid receptors on the brain stem, so there's no chance of respiratory depression and possibly death.

An interesting point about Tylenol

Tylenol, once ingested, is metabolized in the liver to become another component that attaches to the CB1 receptors in the brain and decreases pain perception, the same way THC does. Isn't that fascinating?

It also blocks an enzyme that degrades endocannabinoids, increasing the availability of your endogenous signalling molecules. If the enzymes don't get them torn apart they're free to go in search of cells in need of signaling.

Tylenol is also opioid-sparing and potentiates the opioids. It has no GI, cardiac, or renal side-effects. However, high doses, particularly when taken with alcohol, can cause severe liver damage

Because so many opioids are made with Tylenol included in the formulation, and the fact that many opioid patients take numerous doses a day, Federal regulations cut the upper doses of Tylenol OTC from 500 to 325 mg per capsule, but many pain patients take up to 8 combination pills a day. Too much Tylenol is being consumed by too many people. Eight extra-strength capsules would be 2600 mg a day.

It's been determined that B-Caryophyllene attaches to CB2 receptors, reducing inflammation and inflammatory response, much the same way CBD does. Some believe it's really a cannabinoid, not a terpene at all. When looking for a canna med for inflammation, it's a good idea to find one high in B-Caryophyllene. It shows up in high concentrations in many of the purple flowering cannabis plants.

Fun to grow and great meds. I'd appreciate some input as to what chemovars have worked for you.

My doctor told me when I went for my medical MJ card that it is Best to get a 1:1 ratio or a 1:2 ratio of THC/CBD and that it works best when it in the same bud. He said it can work if you add a CBD strain with a THC strain but it is Best to get it from the same Plant, Strain Bud What have you found to work best ? Also can members recommend a good 1:1 or 1:2 ratio strain ? I plan to grow my own medicine and want to buy some seeds with these ratios in mind. I suffer from Chronic Pain, Depression, and fatigue along with other aliments. Looking forward to some suggestions Thank You

 

[PCaddict]

CBD Critical Cure

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

SUMMARY

*The initial goal is to decrease the frequency and dose of opioids, with an eye to quitting opioids altogether.

* Work closely with your doctor that prescribes the opioids.

* You may need to get a separate doctor for your cannabis regimen.

* Gradual tapering off of the opioids can spare you the withdrawal symptoms and cravings that usually come with discontinuing opioids.

* You want to reduce the risk of accidental overdose if restarting opioids after they've been stopped.


A personal note

Pulling this information together was an emotionally grueling project for me. I have such a strong connection to this community and I know many are struggling with opioid dependance, an unexpected hangover of injury made worse by the medication meant to give relief.

We now know that cannabis is as effective as opioids, with small exception, and without any of the dangerous side effects that come hand-in-hand with opioid use. With the knowledge we're getting now we have a gateway drug out of the opioid nightmare.

This is a labor of love, from me to you. Even if I never know you, this was my gift, in hopes that it will help you find your way home.




Resources from Dr. Smith:

Cannabis-MD is a collection of educational materials for medical professionals.
- The site teaches you about the plant, the ECS, how cannabis interfaces with the ECS, and classes on particular disease states and their treatment with cannabis.

Medical Cannabis: What Clinicians Need To Know And Why

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

"Medical Cannabis: Basic Science and Clinical Applications" by Dr. Gregory Smith. A textbook for physicans on what cannabis is and why it's an important therapeutic tool.

"CBD (Cannabidiol): What You Need To Know"

CBD (Cannabidiol): What You Need To Know

• SweetSue
• Feb 25, 2018

Thank You So Much this post is really good....

 

[DonkeyDick]

Hey @PCaddict. You have my empathy, but I have no expertise to offer.
There is an abyssal, abysmal gap between prohibition and practice. It makes no damn sense to anyone.
I’m taking a run at a specialist later in the week to try to get a prescription for a THC:CBD thing myself. I’ll be interested to see what answers others come back with for ya.
For me - apart from mental health and physical health needs - legal health is challenging too. Growing my own meds because it was costing the same for me (someone’s making a killing), and if I get rolled at work without a script in my pocket then that’s my mortgage done.
There must be better answers than changing your address!