Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

[LVMarc42]

Marc.....

Those lovely pictures may come down someday when the staff catches up to them. They're a little off-topic, but sooooo appreciated.

The regimen has to be fluid to account for the wide variability of response. Thank God we work with a plant that's never killed anyone in recorded history, eh?

Loved the joke, by the way. Hehehe. I'm headed to San Diego in a few months. I'm looking forward to seeing how they market our favorite plant. I love that you've located sales and learned to make the best use of them.

Sue look forward to humming bird ranch visit. San Diego’s is in our landing path... lol ...glide path 242 from las....
Add Las Vegas days if you can..

Well. My routine is varied.
Start with 8 ounces.....water.. fist thing. Starts everything.
Coffe, scoop my chcoclate powder ..see idk.old post./.
Coffee used for 15 ml base, with 1, 1.5 2 ml tincture .. tincture is 10-15 mg/ml.
I can move in a few. Often I space for a few. I can tell I leave the 7.5 ounces of fresh coffee ...for awhile..

Same in 2-3 hours.
Chocolate, w/coco oil/ with approx. 1000 mg/ ‘thc + cbd’ / typically 60/40 -80/20 thc to Cbd...by ..idk spec ..
30 pieces.. so each is 33 mg per chunk. 42 mg item. 1/2 piece is medicine. Whole piece.. ‘racy mind’ or euphoric ‘ my choice. If I rest meditate I get one thing. If I excercise I get another. Based upon this selective ‘high’. By me not the thc Cbd ratio. But higher than normal dose. I think cannabis brings you further than you. I know that’s silly sounding. But it’s that catalyst factor.. entourage effect.. it nice that a whole piece 1.5 ounce. Of CCO infused chocolate can do that.
And, 1/2 of 1.5 ounce proves , every 4 hour ‘maintaining.
I consume 1/2 to 2 pieces a day.

I cook with ethanol .. often some winds up in the food too.

Red wine and cannabis really do go so well together, and nourish humans, near as I can tell royals in saxony have sipped ethanol laced grape juice , ie red wine. At the rate of 50 ml/ hour daily for over 1000 years. Avoiding the ground water, entirely. They outlived their constituents by huge margins ....and still Q E Elizabeth is how old.. she’s sauced..lol since 1959.

After that I try to limit consumption.. I don’t know why. Oh yeah if I use half as much. It might go twice as far.. that’s it.
But I can inhale. Unlike bill Clinton , I inhale. Often a cool liquid bong hit. That’s how I sort through the weed on the market.
Marc.....what dose are you using to maintain?

Some is not worth smoking.. I’m spoiled.. it goes right to qwet jar.
The really good weed omg//// sue if you’ve not seen west coast dispensary , lol it’s .. overwhelming.
Frankly, it still is a year later...
not sure about Cali market issue. Cali has its own ..ting going on anyway.
San Diego is againdifferant from Nything around it. Weed markets are ...distortions high and low so pay attention.
Math skills and some life skills are helpful.

Las Vegas is mature... so some look like
Off track betting ‘’ parlors... little depressing. Cashiers in glas bothhs... but those are fast and some are great.
The yuppie. Millennial places sell 300-400 oz we’d. Purty.. purty sick.. I won’t ever pay that. ... well see. Lol

Then there are the treasures...
weed report.... the rso oil is diminishing. .. now the 595 mg/gram syringe cost 28 bucks.. where to whole spectrum. 600 mg Cbd /200 mg thc is 48 bucks. And you cNt get the 48 buck version.. how wrong is that. Iwnated to mix it up..as I do ..

So. Tomorrow ,,at dawn, facing stiff wind warnings, there tikum olam, midnight, for idk 20 bucks/ for 3.r gram bag. Plus discounts... that strain is about r0/50 thc Cbd. So 160 bucks/ one ounce midnight/ yields 2.5 grams of thc and 2.5 grams of Cbd.... ‘’’guess the oil makers ...get weed on sale too..’’’lol..

Sue..I am sure I don’t want to run out of cannabis. Not for opioid ‘crave. That doesn’t exist. But for pain and making shreds out of Maslow triangle.. it’s fuel like the food I eat. I want to just keep going...
Expect now time for sleep. Last night only hours..... no ore internet till later......nite.

 

[SweetSue]

Sue...
Pictures are part of the move from certain misery.id use..death..redacted....to life.
The sky is ...finding the ;river’ ... river of life.. all around us.. some times spectacularly.

The red wood room... depict what medical junkies might do to alleviate ...what needs stoopin’. ..
Wind took partial assembly twice, at 45-50. The partial withstood 45-55 twice..since..beat it.
Now, the structure is physically stable. Locked . All dimension.

The tree. Tre of knowledge.. hardly..just snow in the desert..almond florets..

Sue, as the opioids reduce.... Maslow triangle emerges.. strongly.. you know it?
Maslow continue to make tiered pyramid.. model get bulky..

So, your stone cold gut, awakens.. that a positive. It isn’t quiet right for a time. But what the hell. The opioids kill it entirely.. the process of awakening is... certainly interesting. Maybe your amalyse response will return too. Eating will certainly improve.

Now, you must Acquire food. Portion. Prep. Cook...etc....
again good ‘stress’ and if you eat right you feel soooo much better. Way better.

Pretty soon you progress through a >>>> 50 % reduction in opioids..
Pretty soon you you get to 75% reduction...in opioids.. excellent.

You feel so much better. Faster and faster you want to go... no you ..must go. Be militant.
Go fast as you can.. waiting , weaning, being sick another or an extra day...is a suckers bet... the house big eats you up. Tic tock.. there is a time limit. And a constant price paid daily...... choose life. So

Not sure exactly how to ‘picture ‘ dance/ yoga / music therapy.. you all know it, when ya se it right?

Re three stem joke... it’s useful in many audiences. It’s true too. Love em all,physics. Math. And engineers.. all,steortypes sadly so true..

... ‘joke’
Re the last 10%

Engineers can compute anything ...to within 10% error.. asleep.

....the last ten percent is often a topic in nerd circles. Ok including me..at times.

Like a schedule.. gannet chart. Buulets Nd shit like that.. lots of fun..
Ok several dozen months into a one dozen month plan, you have only ten percent left.. to,go
Ten percent effect, effort, cost, of ...wtf..idk.. left.. great..
So since 12 months took > 18 months, and the materials you bought are.trashed..
How long, what’s the cost of the that last ten percent??????

Omg..
The lust is longer than Murphy’s law,,,

So, reducing the last 10%. Like only 20 mg , out of 200 a day.., or 2 mg out of 20 mg, a day. Takes more effort than the first..90%.. plan was wrong to start..
Happens on every ‘program’ I’ve seen.
Ok happens in 100% reduction.
The last 10%, sets you 100% free.
You can see that sky photo for the first time in a lonnnng ass time.
You see the parts of N almond flower as desert snow,,,,


I assure you. You ll need, want and love it all... if not.. don’t do it.... there is no other reward other than life , it’s beautify and it’s challenge at once... choose life.

Thank you for being you. You touch me deeply and teach me so much with every post.

I’ll see to it that the pictures stay right where they are. If you get word they’re being moved send them my way please.

Keith, thank you.

 

[TheMadDabber]

Day 3. Feeling okay I guess... canna lotion cream or balm would go a long way in reducing achieness (sp?) The feeling of someone ripping my muscles apart.... but the hourly dab seems to be treating me okay. I expected far less sleep so better than I expected buy far from as good as I hoped I'd feel.

Trying to stay busy. Physically and mentally. And hoping to feel back to normal sometime in the next 5 to 12 days....

 

[InTheShed]

You got this! Keep doing what you're doing and you will get through it. We have faith

 

[SweetSue]

You're strong Dabber. You're doing well. Are you using a topical? Do you have access to some? Arctic has some, I'd bet my life. If he has it I know he'll share.

When you use it be sure to rub some into the upper back, on the spine. It'll help.

 

[LVMarc42]

Day 3. Feeling okay I guess... canna lotion cream or balm would go a long way in reducing achieness (sp?) The feeling of someone ripping my muscles apart.... but the hourly dab seems to be treating me okay. I expected far less sleep so better than I expected buy far from as good as I hoped I'd feel.

Trying to stay busy. Physically and mentally. And hoping to feel back to normal sometime in the next 5 to 12 days....

Dabber .... consider all timeframes... longer periods where you will feel ..better... different.. but not really ready for ‘’’prime time’’’..

MD, 2//3/4 hot baths ///a day// idc how many // cannot make anything worse.// Decadent.. floating duck. Bubbles.. no glass in the hot tub.....joints are totally acceptable. Blast only jazz when in hot water,however..

The pain ‘swap’ over.. is interesting.. as the poisons leave your body, several weeks, and the thc/Cbd floods your body with ..well thc and Cbd.. the pain profile will change.. ..md. I’m thinking ‘what can possibly go,wrong?”
Opioids are devoid of actual pain relief.. wrong model.. I have a graphic..coming... coming..
Thc is very good especially eaten we all know that..
Less known, is that red wine with FHB, floated into it. Removes all visible trichomes in minutes..7-15/// .
I have recently learned.. thanks to sweet suemand oldbears constant badgering...lol. That it’s the active ingredient in red wine, that activates your bodies NSAID respionse. So throw away the aspirin too. It’s the first compounded medicine.. the inventor died , rather than consume his own posion....look it up>>>
Ok, red wine stimulates paragoblulins... thats where aspirins ‘pain felief’ comes from.. the blood thinning Nd metabolite shower. Isn’t often discussed. It’s the foundation.. so


Drink red wine. When you get break through..omg wtf do,I do now... red wine/red wine w/ fhb//. Tw/isn’t up a fattie.. pour 4 ounces/ 100 ml sip slowly. Repeat as often as you want and need till...April /15.. then ...lol.

Jello has most amino acids you’ll need to replace. ..real sugar.. no fancy chemistry . Let’s not over complicate our atp energy source ...sugar.. not the cheap,fake crap.

Citrus ..you have a ‘’kreb’ Cycle... great right.. oranges //pink grapefruit... everyday... twice/ no limits..

Pistachios .... no limits///2 months max.. lots of good calories//but lots/
Steak. Breakfast meat to awaken dead stomach, after...water/toast/coffe/tincture/. .then steak eggs ..little later..

I’d steer clear of starchy bread/ crap calories /// eat w pounds of steak... no ho ho s.
No ice cream for awhile.. slows things down inside you..
Milk And cookies before bed.. makes you sleepy. You have to let it happen.. ok add thc chcoclate and go,to,sleep.. or just relax listen to gong music/ whatever you like..

stay away from tv/ movies // for months// Just skip,the propa Ganda. ..sue mentioned this to me. And the timing and message was...important. ....

Oh joint pain.. seduce.. corrupt purchase full,body massage.. how cN this make you hurt...worse??

Muscle cramps.. yeah ...
they don’t go away....
I have a theory... and a patient to make my personal guina pig.. .
Me
‘Muscle relaxers” .... don’t ...

So, you stretch during day. Build new muscle s l o w ly. ...when cramps ..increase in frequency..

Send kids to grand mas if you can..

 

[SweetSue]

I love having you around Marc.

I feel stronger knowing you're there. Keep a sharp eye for me tonight please.

 

[TheMadDabber]

Well good news is I fell asleep last night but when I woke up at 2 I couldn't go back to bed until I had a few big times in me....

I know you say no tv but I have the Seinfeld Jimmy legs pretty bad, and as a result have slept mostly in the guest room out of respect for my better half.

We are getting there though. A little better every day. I think arctic said he had some "night caps" for me I'm headed over there now.

 

[Bluenoser]

Hello all,
This is am amazing thread, thank you all for sharing it.
SweetSue sent me this way as I am attempting to wean myself off of morphine right now, and it's not going so well, but when does it ever go well.

I have a severe pain syndrome called CRPS, a brain injury, some kind of autoimmune disorder, arthritis, degenerative disk disease, to name a few, oh, and also I'm 4.5 years cancer free from testicular cancer so far.

I also have some kind of very painful lumps or inflammation in my neck running from the back of my skull down the left side of my neck, possibly lymph nodes? The doctors don't even care what it is because it did not show up on my 11th CAT scan. So they just inject it with freezing from time to time and say "here, I've increased your morphine dose for you, that should help". Yeah right.

I've been on every kind of opiate there is (besides fentanyl) for the past 12 years, and have taken myself off of opiates a few times already, and none of those times were anything less than hell.

I have been on 80mg of morphine (20mg X 4 daily), then, about a week ago I started decreasing the dose, within 2 days I was down to 10mg once a day, but I'm feeling the effect, and I feel terrible.

Yesterday I took 5mg in the morning, and thought I might be able to get through to the next day without taking any more, but my symptoms became too severe, so I took 5mg last night. I also took only 5mg today, when I first woke up this morning.

Last night I was freaking out because fluid was rapidly running into my lungs, and I felt like I was drowning. It felt like very severe post nasal drip, and my nose was running, as were my eyes. It sucked.

It felt like a histamine reaction, as I was sneezing too, but I didn't want to take any antihistamines. I took that 5mg morphine, and a gravol, along with my CCO which is a little larger than a grain of rice (I take it orally) and I also took around 20mg of pure CBD isolate sublingually.

As about the same time as last night's symptoms are setting in, I'm wondering if any of you have any suggestions about what to do if I start drowning again, it's a very scary feeling.

I know I'm tapering way too fast, but I'm totally fed up with these pills in my body, I don't want to be addicted to anything.

To make matters worse, and harder not to reach for that pill, I tore my lower back badly just reaching down to open my meds box, and now I can barely walk at all. Grrr...

Thanks for your help

 

[sierrahiker]

Wow, I can relate to your pain. I have CRPS, back surgeries from disc degeneration, head injury from bike fall, too many surgeries to list quickly. Sad to say I have been on all opioids, inc. intrathecal pump for 10+ years with morphine the main med. It is not fun so I do understand your desire to get off the meds. I was on such a large dose for 35 years that I am still in the process of getting off. Was off totally a couple years ago but pain was too limiting. I struggle eating with bad TMJ, walking,... Now I am doing a small amount of percocet. Split 10 mg pill in quarters and take 3-4 times a day. I make tincture of the RSO, trying to get close to 1:1 ratio. Adding THCA and CBD tinctures prn. Recently did a few Ketamine infusions for the CRPS and helped. Not sure the long term help as was in Dec.

20% reduction in opioids is what most recommend. And for me, it has taken a very long time to get this low on my meds. But, I still want to function so I am being patient with myself. I assume your morphine is short acting. Are you keeping a log of how much you take and how you feel? I do a log at times esp. if changing cannabis or lowering med dose. It helps me in the moment and is fun to look back to see progress.

I have never had the sensation you describe and would think you might consider slowing your taper. That is a huge decrease in a short time. And, it doesn't sound fun. I remember the doc thought my dose was low enough in my pump to turn off the morphine. I was very sick, thought I had the worst flu ever. When they re-started the pump I felt better in a few hours (the time it took to get into my system). My pump was taken out when battery started to fail, tho doc wanted to implant a new pump. It appears my body could do larger reduction of meds when I was taking more. As I take less meds my body notices a reduction more.

There are many here who should be able to offer good advice. Hope tonight goes better for you!

 

[SweetSue]

Dabber, I'm glad it's going well. You're so close I can smell it.

Welcome to the room Bluenoser. There are many eyes watching this space. Sit tight.

 

[Bluenoser]

Well I'm off, didn't take any morphine last night, didn't take any today.
Lets see what happens....lol.

 

[Oldbear]

Hi Bluenoser I can't offer much in the way of advice, but can offer up lots of moral support and encouragement.

 

[Bluenoser]

Hi Oldbear,
Thanks for your support and encouragement, sometimes, that is the most important thing

Unless a person has gone through this, I don't think they truly understand how personal this is, it really is something you just have to go through alone, nobody can do it for you, it's your cross to bear.

I just remember the keen sense of achievement I had the last time I quit the opiates, and adversely, the heavy sense of failure when I had to start taking it again and put that first pill in my mouth, knowing full well that the day like today would eventually and definitely come.

Well, here I am, it's today, so far so good.

The diarrhea sux, that's for sure.

 

[Oldbear]

I found this on the web. Seems like a fitting logo for this thread.

love zero.jpg

• Oldbear
• Mar 10, 2018

 

[Oldbear]

Hi again Bluenoser. When I did the reduce to zero, it was more gradual and stepped than what you are doing. If you can handle the cold turkey side effects great, but I hear its rough.

At the end it was apparent that the drugs were not helping with pain at all and in fact actually causing it.

 

[SweetSue]

I read more than once in the last couple days that quitting opioids cold turkey is hellish, to be sure, but it won't kill you. The deaths are caused by taking too large a dose after dropping your tolerance levels.

I was really relieved to find this verified over and over. As someone who hasn't shared this experience that was a sneaky little concern in the back of my head.

If all we can do is support you, we'll do our best.

CBD, in high daily doses - this means in the hundreds of mg - can sometimes cause loose stools. It's one of the warning signs we watch for. I understand the withdrawal process creates the same symptom, but I'd be alert to this.

 

[Bluenoser]

Thanks everyone for your support and wisdom.

Sue, that was actually one of my concerns/questions about CBD.
I wondered what the effects of taking too much CBD actually were, if any.

I'm only guessing about the CBD isolate powder dose I'm taking, based on what I was told. I'm "guessing" it is around 20-30mg, but I'm just not sure.

I can say one thing for sure, I can finally take a proper dose of CCO without all the anxiety and panic feeling I get from THC because of the CBD isolate, previously it did not matter how much CBD "oil" spray, drops ect I took, the THC had that effect on me, and I've been using it since 2011.

So I know for a fact that the CBD is doing something at least.

Unfortunately, my pain levels are increasing today, and I'm at a pretty max dose of CBD THC now.

What to do?

I'm committed, no more pills. I don't care what happens to me today.

 

[KeifKeith]

Well I'm off, didn't take any morphine last night, didn't take any today.
Lets see what happens....lol.

One day at a time Bluenoser, congrats on today, keep working on today only, you can do it!

 

[SweetSue]

The suggestion I'd make isn't one you could do today, in all likelihood, but I'd be getting some oil into capsules and using them as suppositories. That may not sound like a delightful option, but it's one of the best ways to get more THC into the body without the euphoria. Made with olive oil and inserted shallowly they first enter the lymphatic system instead of the bloodstream.

The lymph system is where the immune system resides, for the most part, and it serves the periphery of the body, where much of that pain is coming from. With suppositories you can manage the pain better, using vaping for immediate relief of breakthrough pain or edibles to help you sleep through the night.

Our Biobomb formulations make the oil go further.

What do you think Bluenoser?