420 Magazine Background

Opioid Tapering With Cannabis: A Regimen

noobgrow1

Active Member
That sent me down a scary rabbit hole. If OIH expression isn’t as frequent as believed and the patients misdiagnosed are being treated in a way that’s contraindicated that’s not good news for the patients.

What to do about such a thing?

Sorry in my glee that you found the study I missed the question re: solutions.

Buckle up it's a long one! I am so disgusted with our "health care" aside from acute emergent needs it is most typical to see your doc and leave w / script. Pain meds aside, & we are blasted with ads in the US, describing varied symptoms leading us to just request medication X medication directly from our docs.

What needs to happen based on my experience is really a political solution, not one I think to happen in my or even unborn grandchildren's lives. When there exists a 2:1 Pharma Lobbyist to State Senators and corporations have more rights than citizens I see little chance for progress.

Cash creates legislation which is why I make my small donation to NORML as possible. It has only been through activist & lobbyists that MMJ legislation has come as far as it is. But still not federal WTF? In addition to paid lobbyists grass roots movements & demonstrations by citizens.

I am officially on AARP radar a few years now, as such don't have time or energy to start something. But for those of us struggling with chronic pain of any type my experience is this. Change in diet whole food and organic as possible, to deal with existing aches and chronic pain the only thing I see is lifestyle change. Diet, Exercise, Stretching, & Yoga has been especially helpful. I do not mean exercise in form of physical therapy either, working with a good trainer, yoga & perhaps pilates. Basically someone to assure correct form and what you should experience in a given stretch or exercise.

Cannabis no doubt helps me most times tune in to muscle groups I am trying to either activate or stretch. Ironically I worked with a trainer a bit who was more helpful than the physical therapy mills I have tried. Anyway early on I asked his opinion if vaping before training would impede our work. Turns out he suffered shoulder injury & said he really felt cannabis gave him similar focus / awareness of his muscles during training. As I got to know him he tended to imbibe a bit much, after I was able to tune more into him I saw how forgetful he would be training me!

As he is trying to start his own practice as a trainer, I suggested minimally a mint or gum before meeting clients that perhaps don't appreciate the benefits especially in their fitness trainer! Turns out he also struggles with opiods but appears not to be having success or motivation to get off at this time. But as usual I digress...

The biggest take away I have is when anyone has used prescription or illicit opiods for pain at least if they are like me, we tend to take enough so that the pain is prctically non existent while on the meds. I would tell my doc pain level was always a 2 of 10 when taking meds. W/O them I would most likely not have even been able to walk. Arthritis & Patellar Femoral Syndrome just killed me.

At my final in office visit with my orthopedic surgeon like the day or two before my scheduled Hip replacement # 2 my knees hurt so badly I asked if maybe we should try an alternative. I don't recall the reply but paraphrasing he said well the new hip may help resolve the knee issues...NOT.

Total hip replacement was the early days of pain Mgt Practices & Oxycodone was the staple with breakthrough Percocet (Oxycodone w / Tylenol) or initially hydrocodone w / percocet x 4 daily. After my 1st Total hip the surgeon stated no car rides for like 6 weeks. I didn't have enough pain meds at home & he wouldn't write a script. The first total hip was absolutely a horror show. I was in so much pain I recall the surgeon and pain mgt doc debating what they could increase my morphine does to. This was maybe year 2000 or 2001, imagine being in the hospital bed and requesting pain meds, nurses saying the doc must order it.

This pain doc certainly was new my surgeon was fearful & rightfully so that I not go into respiratory depression and die!
But the process of MD's becoming a "specialist" is pretty minimal. I think at least some states it requires like an 8 hour training, most likely done online. You know it's basically an open book test, if there is even a test. Sometimes just attending the training and you're off as a new Cannabis Doc, Pain. Sleep Specialist etc. That first pain mgt doc from the hospital did not even write a decent sized script for me to make the required 6 week ordered no travel rule imposed by my ortho surgeon. So I call the pain dude he says sure c'mon down, & I say I am not allowed to be in a car for 6 weeks...

I think he called in clonodine and I had some leftover hydrocodone a few percocet & a few 20 mg Oxycontins. At that time I was maybe 40 mg oxy daily with 7.5 or 5 mg Hydro's or percs. He could have called in Hydrocodone not Percocet silly DEA rules again. But he would not call in any pain meds w/o in person visit. So I had a pretty fast taper with only the few remaining pills & clonodine. Clonodine is extremely helpful and as I was what I considered fairly low doses it was not the worst thing.

The takeaway is Doc A may have a "specialty" in whatever but what does that exactly mean. None of 3-4 pain mgt docs really have a clue about weaning. My last hopefully pain doc somehow believed morphine & oxycontin were equal pain relief per milligram. Well a quick search on the web show an ignorant patient that oxy is at least 1.5 -2 x stronger than morphine. If you go back and report such you begin to be labelled as a drug seeker. In a sense that was true for me, I wanted to be out of pain, I wanted a semblance of normal life so I sought increased doses, the euphoria was an added boost for motivation, but I did need the meds to function with minimal impact on my physical life.

Maybe 5- 6 years in as my dosages were increasing after scores of injections I tried arthroscopy to cleanup debris and torn edges of cartilage, I was able to wean down from maybe 100 mg Oxy daily to just 2 perocet 20 mg day total for a while. Don't recall how long before I needed to increase doses again, ultimately I was on my highest dose daily about 200 mgs Oxycontin daily. Some days were better so I took less but took more on worse days. The pain docs just followed what the drug companies recommended when prescribing.

Another thing I learned in hindsight after that scope was done I was on my normal doses of meds which really numbed the pain and since I did not really feel the amount of pain my body was inconsequentially I did some things theat probably irritated the joints. I ended up in surgeons office at least 3 x to have fluid drained because the swelling got so bad. Did I mention my ADHD not easy for me to sit still and I had things to do that I probably should have let be. Were I on a lower dose at least experiencing more of the real pain perhaps I could have learned lessons sooner about how to rehab myself.

Then post withdrawal I was off pain meds for a bit, but 2nd hip was still very painful so maybe 5-7 months back to surgeon & pain mgt. doc post 2nd THR . I changed pain docs the one I was seeing felt like a Florida Pill Mill all the pill ppl lined up monthly BTW, doc would see you 5-10 mins get scripts & off to pharmacy. At least my new doc was willing to spend time with me and entertain options. One example is first hip was always getting n painful spasm and my attempts stretching provided minimal relief. So he mentioned Botox this after probably 6 + steroid injections and the lube stuff etc. Well Botox worked but only for maybe 6 months maybe longer. I had to buy the Botox as insurance would not cover the med just the procedure. That was $500 a vial. And he only used half so I took remained home to freeze. That only last 6 months so ended up in trash. If any of these doctors had a more didactic holistic type approach they could have driven home the point that there were options to PT like yoga & good trainers to possibly target the troubled areas.

When I started increasing my dosages I always kept asking about any new options, I tried nerve blocks, steroid injections, the "lube stuff they shoot into the joints" you name it I would try it just to not have to increase pain meds or have surgery. Oh yeah and many trips for PT, the physical therapy today is so different than the first time I had it in my late teens or early 20's. I worked individually wit the same PT and 100 % focus was on me so he would guide me what I was working and should feel. Today typically even solo practices have several pts going at once they bounce from cube to cube instructing you. At least in the in the US.

FF about 12+ yrs I could not take anymore higher does of pills my preference & doc's resistance & I got a beefier heath care plan, waited until that was almost do to end & scheduled bi-lateral TKR. If you can't tell I tend to research the hell out of medical procedures. Unfortunately I relied on my earlier Hip Replacement experience and research I trusted my cocky surgeon's opinion that as the Rolling Stones put it "all I had to do was send x dollars to the "church of the sacred heart of Jesus & all my dreams would come true, so I did" But.. unlike the song next week I got an appt for my surgery and horrors began. I did not research TKR much because he assured me the newer polymers last so much longer yadiyada... I am self employed and wanted to minimize time out of work, that turned out a bad plan.

I forgot to mention that since this nightmare post knee replacements I have done massive research re: TKR and found as many as 10-20% of those getting the surgery are not happy actually usually they are absolutely miserable! My fault for not digging more I listened to the Preacher (Ortho Suregon) remember the Stones " All my dreams would come true" I had Bakers Cysts, osteo arthritis I think, who knows may very well been something else. But I can't unring that bell now.

So just based on my personal journey & years of working with addicts before buying what I strongly believe for anyone being told the suffer from OIH assuming they can achieve very minimal to zero pain while on the opiods is to begin to wean down. Maybe not tell your doc you are doing so in this current climate, you may need to have a partner / spouse or family member hold your meds.

Next step is to get to a point that you can begin to become aware of the muscle groups that need either balancing or strengthening etc. & begin to either do DIY yoga on youtube or other sources. My recommendation is Yoga with Adrienne (SP?) she really helps me tune in emotionally and relax. In my case I actually sobbed & probably will more during sessions. I have come out of bad knee replacements & caring for a terminally ill relative almost immediately after my surgery. The yoga poses and coaching from her attuned me to the amount of stress I carry daily. sobbing is an appropriate response, it produces endorphins & enkephalins which lest you know are our own bodies produce which bind to our oipiod receptors. That's why intense exercise produces "runner's high" exercise it usually the last thing I want to do when my joints hurt but does help.

We were in serious denial of how bad her cancer was, it had to be metastasizing to her brain, it got to the point the visiting nurse left pain medication & I think liquid morphine. Her pain became unmanageable & they put her in the hospital to try to stabilize it they said over the weekend...that was the last time she left our home. Passed within 4 weeks after. Meanwhile I was asking Medicare for a second oxygen unit for when she could come downstairs. I think she maybe came down twice after that. The nurse told us "she is dying" like imminently very straight forward. I sadly kinda blew her opinion off (denial again) she called the oncologist & got the order so nursing care could at least come daily. The doc was literally on the phone saying what do you mean she is my star patient.

That was 2 or 3 lobectomies & several chemo treatments later BTW. So there was I guess a fast progression that even surprised him. But looking back after realizing there had been really strange behavior happening for a few months. I was so grateful she had friends that would visit. Well mostly grateful, I hated the disruption with my dog and I was nothing more than a lump on the couch at that time. So my long winded point is trauma death and dying, surgery less than successful, chronic pain can put us in a place that we really do not see the proverbial writing on the wall that a 6 year old would see.

It is gradual as was my increase in pain meds, 40 mg not working up it, until I thought the side effects outweighed the benefits. Along the path however when I was effectively numbing the pain I led a fairly active lifestyle summers I would mountain bike up 3 + hours, cut my lawn etc. push mower, do basic home maintenance. Had I listened to the pain rather than turn it off, & spent time god the time spent now attempting to heal myself is incredible. If I slowed down & tried diet change learned how to balance muscle groups,maybe done yoga. Also maybe tried cannabis my journey would have been different.

For these reasons I really encourage anyone trying to get off opiods for pain, please taper as much as tolerable & explore some of the options to try to heal yourself. It beats surgery & certainly will enhance your life 100 fold! We have to be our own health care advocates, the medical community for the most part are a surgical & medication machine. I hope I have at least organised enough for some kind of guide for chronic pain ppl here. Just medicating to reduce is not the best solution, less is typically more in this situation. I firmly believe with the right exercises and diets many of our issues can be severely improved and dare I say cured permanently.

It's BIG business, through all this convalescing I watched probably more documentaries than most humans will see in their lifetime! The first to really wake me up I think was Forks Over Knives, which for anyone unaware is based on "The China Study book" which is the longest and most comprehensive long term health study. I forget why Emperor whoever started it, but it was because either he became ill or increased population death spikes.

Excerpt from the website:
The major story line traces the personal journeys of Dr. T. Colin Campbell ( who by the way grew up on a dairy farm), a nutritional biochemist from Cornell University, and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, a former top surgeon at the world-renowned Cleveland Clinic. On separate paths, their discoveries and groundbreaking research led them to the same startling conclusion: Chronic diseases including heart disease and type 2 diabetes can almost always be prevented—and in many cases reversed—by adopting a whole-food, plant-based diet.

I believe it was around the 70's the US Gov't commissioned a study for dietary recommendations & it was not the pyramid I grew up on. I forgot the politician it was named after but a name those us not as spry as we may have been will remember. Guess what at least according to this and at least one other book or doc I have seen report that the Dairy and Beef Lobbies had major impact in the new FDA recommendations. It is really a good read The China Study or do the Forks over Knives doc it's no longer free on maybe their site I believe YouTube as well. Worst case Netflix or Amazon should have it. Or rent for $2.99. That is just one doc about effects of processed foods and their associated chronic illnesses.

The biggest impact on me was this doc asks for some patients to perform a study on cardiac patients. He ends up with the worst of the worst ppl that at least one was told just go home and sit. Basically just wait to die, I am pretty certain all patients not only don't die they reverse heart disease.

Just changing to whole food vegan diet I lost over 50 lbs came off 10+ years of blood pressure meds. I remember my history teacher discussing earlier cultures think Kings and Dictators she said the rich ate the best fattiest parts of the meat and the poor ate little and much less fatty meats. This led to the wealthy often dying much sooner than their impoverished counterparts.

I tried to find a link for the study the Dairy & Beef Corps suppressed & pushed changes to keep us eating their products but found a similar one here from Minnesota:


One big thing about oils Olive and others high in linoleic (SP?) acids are the really beneficial oils to prevent many diseases. Same history teacher explained the changes in the industrial age in the US where it took a while for us to figure out that all the "new" processed grains mostly rice and flower had been stripped of most of the nutrients so they had to "enrich" those products to stop a rash of malnutrition disease. That means if you are a white rice eater and it doesn't say enriched they haven't sprayed on the B vitamins stripped away. Check the nutrition info see if any B vitamins if not its mostly empty carbs, I think all white flower has added vitamins.

The website somewhere mentions food as medicine, sounds kinda familiar to MMJ & other herbal possibilities. Corporations can't patent plants, so they isolate molecules & sell Sativex or Marinol. We really have to be our best advocates & numbing the pain IMHO is rarely a cure. Unless terminally ill reduce pain meds including MMJ if it numbs the pain. We tend to live an extremely stressful lifestyle for the most part, I only even gained awareness of how whacked health care is until I was knocked flat on my ass for quite a while maybe as long as 12 months.

Now wouldn't it be awesome if we had a proactive real "Wellness Care System" that really addresses many underlying causes of our woes. There have been a few times in my life that I allowed myself to slow down enough to realize I was on a hamster wheel. That nature to return to what we know is typical human nature, that's why meditation is called "practice" it's freakin' work to shut up and listen. Be that our sore body or emotional stress or trauma that makes us turn to medicate somehow. We have been conditioned to it, I didn't realize the programming we get until I started to learn marketing for my own business. Compounded with some clinical training in my former life as a counselor I so get it. Most of us will not realize much of this until like me we are playing the back 9. Too busy having kids, succeeding just pick something.

Going vegan / whole foods is a bigger challenge for my partner who is a bit of a sugar fiend who also has been conditioned to having to eat protein which is code for meat and dairy. I said everything we are eating if whole food has some protein, but it was beaten into our heads if not meat it's incomplete protein. So it is about progress not perfection. But i have seen enough science and my own experience with BP meds that I am convinced it is one of the first steps toward health. The other thing about those less affluent in the dark and middle ages was they did manual labor & probably lots of it!

Everyone wants our hard earned cash & they don't really care about us much. It's human nature to want to succeed and get instant gratification or relief. We are very efficient in how we try to process info & our daily tasks at last I recall it only takes 21-30 days to develop a habit. That breaks down to repeating a behavior or thought pattern which we then kinda program to the un or subconscious part of our brain. So we keep the belief or behaviors at such a time it becomes more challenging to alter it. Just think about nail biting and how difficult it can be to stop doing it. If you got more of a chemical, emotional, or financial reward in addition it becomes almost exponentially more difficult to change a habit.

Convenience foods and snacks today are manufactured with perfect proportions of salt, fat, sugar etc. these hit our pleasure centers as well. Not to the degree the tobacco industry has engineered additional adulterants to make cigarettes even more addictive. Just remember P.T Barnum I think said it best, "There's a sucker born every minute."
Our old pal Sigmund Freud's son became the latest incarnate working with advertisers how to condition the masses to buy product x y or z. One quote was he stated he can make ppl do anything he wanted because it will be their choice! The methods used in marketing encouraging mas consumption are extremely effective. Corporations spend billions researching how to best influence us.

It begins at an early age as kids we see an ad or commercial for a toy and now we gotta have it, usually the toys fell way short of the promise in my experience. Well look into how drug studies are done, this is one of the biggest shell games I have ever heard of. I thought medical studies really meant something. Basically they just have to show a margin of safety acceptable side effects & efficacy that the drug works for illness "X". Well studies are far from equal and like Tobacco if there is info contrary to their goals well they go to some dark cabinet not to be seen again.

If you are not aware recently I think Bush 1 administration removed regulatory controls & many drug companies almost overnight just raised prices sometimes to insane amounts. In the US Medicare pays the prices which mean our taxes increase, private insurance stays on scale with the Medicaid rates so we just pay higher and higher premiums for less coverage. And they are always increasing earnings, again I think little to no regulations on cost to consumers.
I have no health insurance presently last cost was $33,000 annual for my spouse and I.

We are I believe one of two countries that allow drug companies to directly advertise to consumers on the planet. We also I think are 5% of the total populous and use like 80-90% of all opiods produced. Also we use tons of antibiotics that no where I am aware of allows. The trend is less today but over prescribing according to those smarter than I have created the super bugs which is why they try to talk you out of them for a cold today.

The biggest reason I turned to cannabis use is it is natural and we have a clue about the ECS and it's impact on health. That falls in line for me with looking at how to best care for my own well being, beyond " eating a balanced FDA diet and exercise" When I started BP meds I said to my doc well if I lose wieght and exercise more I cna probably get off right. He said, That's possible but unlikely, genetics BS yadiyadda!

So to try to keep on topic another great resource is Dr. Sulak Healer - Medical Cannabis (Medical Marijuana) Information from Dr. Sulak he is big on body mind awareness especially re: MMJ. I use the 2 day T-Break every so often to minimize need to just keep upping my intake of MMJ. There just are no short cuts, lifestyle changes make a huge difference. The struggle especially for chronic opiod use & pain is to tune in to our body and minds. He has some really good videos and self checklists. But it requires time and effort. Not my strong suits oh yeah and you have to fight through the depression and other emotional physical discomforts along the way.

Anyway I hope that answers some of a plan, I was going to edit some of the lengthier parts but,for one it's kind of cathartic, two I dosed a bit of GreenDragon & am a bit hyper focused. I am an adult ADHD'r too so maybe if there are some useful things we can build into some suggestions for oipiod tapering, I know because I had such relief I most likely overdid things after surgery. If I had not become ignorant of how other muscle groups compensate for the weaker ones etc. maybe I would be in a better state now. Time will tell, but I am at least 60% better than 18 months ago today. The hardest part is finding and keeping the motivation and a positive mind frame. Very difficult when coming through a PTSD type existence. I even feel a bit guilty describing my experience that way, that's what the stress and years of pills can do.

While not always the best pain reliever for me MMJ helps me slow the eff down in my head. Awareness increases tremendously for me. I will see where this journey ends & keep posting as able, and one day I will perfect my decarb to make some of these oils for longer term dosing with less psychoactive deterrents.

For now I look to taper Kratom provided I continue to avoid suboxone for at least a few more weeks if I can keep my current forward momentum. There is a quote in one of Kurt Vonnegut books he was a pretty depressed dude. Again I paraphrase: He stated he doesn't what "Real Love" is, the closest he could describe was rolling around on the floor with his dog! I so get it, to me it means more about being in the moment, closest I get is taking my dog to the park and running him, he's pretty small so he more hops than runs. People must think me a bit off cuz I talk my head off to him as I typically am laughing the whole time. Of course mediation slows me to that point as MMJ but it's not the just a pure sense of joy when I am so tuned in to this creature who depends on me & it's more work meditating if I am honest!

There is a doc close to me that most likely costs way too much for regular consults but he owes me one free one. He swears food and lifestyle can reverse many of our chronic "western" illnesses. We need to get like minded medical professionals but somehow make it affordable for the average working populations. I am on board to help should anyone have some ideas.

Hope I am within forum guidelines but this is really the only comprehensive way for me to give just a slice of my journey.

Best to all & thanks Sue for the question. I just kind of threw up what may not feel like but is just a brief synopsis of what I have learned the past 3 years along with my decades of pain medication marketing treatments. I beg anyone suffering with chronic pain to seriously explore some of the resources and options I have mentioned. Once I started scouring the net I was able to find a tidbit here and there since I would say the past 12 months especially I have reduced my pain and pain meds.

If I can continue to progress I will get rid of the other prescriptions & hope to study herbalist methodology. Before when I had upset stomach I would grab antacid or anti gas pills, now fresh ginger sucked on I find probably works at least 2 x better and has anti inflammatory benefits as well. I also literally dump Turmeric into any dish I make, one good thing about vegan diet most of what I cook are one or two pot meals. We also discovered one night I was in too much pain so I just did a rough chop of the ginger root and my partner said what is this ginger? Yep I said sorry I could not mince tonight, well now larger chunks are staple because we just love the taste so much!

best to all!

NG1
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
NG1...... I’m a little speechless at the knowledge you shared there. :5: Working on a virtual field might be limiting for others, but something about me allows you all to open up in ways that take my breath away.

That was like a seminar about chronic pain management. How can I thank you enough? :5::5::5: I’ll jump back and make another pass - do a little treasure hunting. :laugh2:

I’ll be honest.... I cried more than once. :5:

I study cellular healing and how cannabis augments the ECS. I’ve come to some conclusions:

* A diet rich in organic foods, mostly plant-based, will supply the ECS with the raw materials for effective signaling and the body with the energy to fuel itself. Disease becomes a temporary inconvenience to a healthy, well-fed immune system.

Make small, but consistent improvements to the quality and quantity of your fuel.

* Every cell in your body has an optimal vibratory rate. The vibration of joy is more likely to support healing than any other one I know of. Stray from joy and you’ll experience disruption in emotional control that creates tension. This tension interferes with optimal ECS signaling.

Deliberately cultivate a default to joy.

* Anything that soothes you, even a little bit, supports your ECS. Laughter leads the way for effectiveness.

Laugh more. It really is the best medicine.

* Fitness programs that incorporate mindfulness, stretch, and relaxation help you grow younger.

* Your beliefs influence your feelings, which motivate your action. It’s all about fear in the end. How much fear do you feel about what’s ahead? Wanna stay healthy? Train yourself to deliberately choose better-feeling thoughts.

I wake up every morning and say right out loud, “Hell yeah, I’m ready to play!” I see only what pleases me, by deliberate training. I’m supremely satisfied with where I am and so excited about what’s ahead I sometimes get goosebumps.

I find life blooms under this umbrella of joyful expectation. I also find people are resistant to the idea that joy is what heals you. :laugh2:

“Surely there’s a pill I can take? Just be happy? HTH can that do anything?”

Because you were made to heal, and you’ll heal faster in joy, no matter what you’re treating.

Hey.... nice conversation. Someday we may do this in person. I’d like that. :5:
 

noobgrow1

Active Member
NG1...... I’m a little speechless at the knowledge you shared there. :5: Working on a virtual field might be limiting for others, but something about me allows you all to open up in ways that take my breath away.

That was like a seminar about chronic pain management. How can I thank you enough? :5::5::5: I’ll jump back and make another pass - do a little treasure hunting. :laugh2:

I’ll be honest.... I cried more than once. :5:

I study cellular healing and how cannabis augments the ECS. I’ve come to some conclusions:

* A diet rich in organic foods, mostly plant-based, will supply the ECS with the raw materials for effective signaling and the body with the energy to fuel itself. Disease becomes a temporary inconvenience to a healthy, well-fed immune system.

Make small, but consistent improvements to the quality and quantity of your fuel.

* Every cell in your body has an optimal vibratory rate. The vibration of joy is more likely to support healing than any other one I know of. Stray from joy and you’ll experience disruption in emotional control that creates tension. This tension interferes with optimal ECS signaling.

Deliberately cultivate a default to joy.

* Anything that soothes you, even a little bit, supports your ECS. Laughter leads the way for effectiveness.

Laugh more. It really is the best medicine.

* Fitness programs that incorporate mindfulness, stretch, and relaxation help you grow younger.

* Your beliefs influence your feelings, which motivate your action. It’s all about fear in the end. How much fear do you feel about what’s ahead? Wanna stay healthy? Train yourself to deliberately choose better-feeling thoughts.

I wake up every morning and say right out loud, “Hell yeah, I’m ready to play!” I see only what pleases me, by deliberate training. I’m supremely satisfied with where I am and so excited about what’s ahead I sometimes get goosebumps.

I find life blooms under this umbrella of joyful expectation. I also find people are resistant to the idea that joy is what heals you. :laugh2:

“Surely there’s a pill I can take? Just be happy? HTH can that do anything?”

Because you were made to heal, and you’ll heal faster in joy, no matter what you’re treating.

Hey.... nice conversation. Someday we may do this in person. I’d like that. :5:
Hah! That's where the Sweet in your nick stands out! Not sure if I have mentioned the tears I have shed reading yours & countless others posts. I so appreciate your dedication in documenting so much of what you have studied. I would love nothing better than to spend probably lots of hours sharing knowledge & experiences toward improving health naturally as possible. You strike me as really a pisser, a strong caring soul, extremely giving nature. Granted that is only from "reading" your thoughts. Much is lost w/o speaking but I tend to get a good bead on personalities & rarely am off.
My partner will often ask me to me new friends to give my impressions.

All of the info I have gleaned over the years is probably 50/50 most of the time half pain motivated, half just my nature once I have an interest. Not sure if I mentioned transitioning from the mental health to IT fields at least 20 yrs earlier, but that all came about because I liked well loved video game consoles.

My roommate said "Ya know computer games are like 100X better. Well being in my 20's w / minimal vices we would go on outings to " Blow some dough!" So $2400 give or take later that night I end up with my first PC. It was a much different experience then. Multimedia aka CDROM & Sound was the buzz of the era. Regular commercials about MIcrosoft Windows on TV.

Well...games may have worked but usually not well if at all. I didn't even know how to shut down properly, LMAO! Basically essentially pulled the plug. My brother is programmer now whatever the upper echelon title he is today came over. The PC's actually had DOS 6.0 & Windows 3.1 Books included can you imagine?!

He showed me how to "zip" files via cmd line, write batch files. Whoa...I remember him coming home with these giant tomes regularly. As I found out much much later in life I had some kind of learning disabilities, now I know ADHD & a bit of dyslexia as well as the same thing for numbers sorry name escapes me. First I began experiencing buyers remorse until I found the first multi player game DOOM! You could call via dialup or plan on a network & it was sooo fun.

So with having to work a bit harder than most to learn I literally holed up in my apartment for 3-6 months learning about operating systems, & PC hardware within maybe 18 - 24 months more multi player games came out. I decided to double use our shared group room to start a pay to play game center with Internet access as well. Didn't last long as people were beginning to realize AOL, CompuServe, & Prodigy were closed networks. Dial up Internet was just beginging to be readily available. So that business lasted maybe just over two years. But by that time I was not buying my computers, I was going to computer shows & buying parts building, upgrading my own. Think at the pinnacle there was 10 PC stations when I shuttered that business.

Between my parents moving me just prior to puberty from city(ish) life to the freaking country & my challenges learning. I mean I remember driving to the land they bought prior to construction to go to "the beach" it was a freaking lake! I had never been in anything sans ocean waters and crystal clear pools, I can still smell that chlorine writing this. Yeah & BTW there were actual CORN FIELDS, I thought we were on another planet!

It was no wonder I took to self medicating within 3-4 months. None of my city friends messed w substances, but those country boys did with zest. $0.60 was my first quart of beer. OMG I was transformed to new awareness. The one bummer about the journey was I also began smoking cigarettes. As far as the rest of psychoactive substances, I have little regrets. First was MMJ and first use like many I felt nothing but cotton mouth. So the next time in a friends basement holy crap! That was a true awakening & I do not mean the euphoria alone. It really began to expand my consciousness.

Well weed was a staple for me, hah we used to have to hitch hike to the next lake community again such a new culture shock. Prior to moving I could walk or bike anywhere I needed to get to something like a deli dept store etc. Anyways I get to "the spot" where you could usually cop some herb. Well all was dry, except some dude had blotter acid. So I was always the one of our group to procure our goods with pooled resources so I said OK. That night I went home with I forget how many sheets but enough for at least 8 of us and some extra.

That was a major life altering experience, yeah the high was great but the deep philosophical thinking & consciousness expansion was my hook into anything psychedelic. BTW - before I began to use any substances aside from the first quart of beer, I went to my school library & found I think 2 books about DRUGS. I stole them both and read cover to cover, dangers effects etc. I stayed away from what was considered physically addictive. Not that anyone was slinging heroin at that time in my neck of the literal woods!

Next time when no weed or acid & what they called mescaline, really was barrel LSD. This dude says he has crystal THC, truth was it was PCP. Holy crap that was another all time fave of mine. Had I just kept to the psychedelics including MMJ, life probably would have been pretty OK. But it was the beginning of the 80's & like most cocaine was becoming abundant. That and meth really sent me into a spiral, I would not smoke weed anymore by probably 19 or 20 years old as it made me too anxious / paranoid. That's funny especially if you have ever experience amphetamine psychosis...3-4 w / little to no sleep hallucinations kick in hard. Not fun trippy ones like LSD, scary extremely paranoid ones.

So life tumbled I became "Sober" literally no substances except ephedra funny that my "drugs of choice" all speed, now I have legal scripts for ADHD which was diagnosed after probably 20 + years. They help(ish) cannabis & CBD seem to help as well. But as stated in my previous post when in HS I smoked all the time, I even smoked in school. i don't mean during class changes I was somewhat a discipline problem at times & would get in school suspensions. Imagine being in essentially a closet that fit two rows of maybe 10 desks w / teacher sitting at the only entrance.

I would take my film canister put a pinch in my pipe cough to make sure teach didn't hear me use the lighter & take the hit and hold so no smoke or odor escaped! In study hall I carried a ceramic bong with like a pistol grip & with my eyes on the teach at front of our cafeteria proceed to get blasted daily. Until that is my nemesis an English teacher who really must have been an amateur detective was doing his rounds to see who might be out back of the caf which was called the smoking circle. With a parents note you could smoke at lunch, well this SOB is checking outside & looks inside only to see me rip off my bong! Bust one in HS, same dude nailed me when I slipped into the men's room to hit my pipe another time!

Part of my point w this diatribe is back then I could cognitively function & IMNSHO very well while using most substances and if I wasn't drinking alcohol no one was ever the wiser. I do not seem to be able to use cannabis without what feels to me like impairment with any regularity. When I can dose during the day & it is right, nothing better mood is great concentration motivation killer. I just cannot get consistency again some has to do with opiates leaving my body & from past experience I know it takes a long time to even out.

I just saw yesterday lab reports re: Kratom & heavy metals, I stopped my home brew or consuming Kombucha due to learning that using tea to make it leeches more heavy metals into the final product. Then I learn cannabis also will suck up most anything evil from the earth or nutes for hydro. I already have two hip replacements metal on metal that surely release some into my body as the joints wear.

Cannabis I don't worry too much as the amount consumed doesn't compare to the grams of kratom daily. But now after so many weeks passed already with no Oxycontin, I am in a bit of a dilemma. I think I would only consider suboxone not Oxy any more because it's a one does daily thing. So I just learned of this yesterday and I think plan A is to see how much I can reduce the kratom.

It really is kind of tragic as I mentioned last post the main benefit w kratom is there is not that warm blanket experience the pills have. It's not as strong of an analgesic either so I am more aware when I am over doing it, any opiods mask pain levels much more. I am not talking about euphoric buzz doses either so I am in a bit of a proverbial tizzy at present. Well I hope this somehow helps others in their struggles w opiods. Cannabis not yet 100% solution for me, & as far as the education or info I have it has been overwhelming to digest.

From an analgesic and mood lifter cannabis alone has been countless hours of reading comparing contrasting experimenting. I don't think I mentioned the rabbit hole of physical therapy or training, wrapping knees, correct ice time & how many applications daily. But hey another day above ground and I can still complain about it. Better yet someone actually listens!

As you mentioned laughter is awesome medicine, so is crying. I don't mean look to cry but when it's appropriate like as I relate this it brings me to tears also. Crying, laughing exercise, some food also produce those feel good neurotransmitters. If you have ever noticed after a "good cry" really sobbing your eyes get puffy we feel kinda numbish more relaxed often release a heavy sigh. That's our body flooding us with endorphins & enkephalins some which are more than 200 x more powerful than morphine. Lest you doubt my words just do a quick search on "enkephalin endorphins in tears" I forget when I earned this but early on in my counselor training. I actually came back to add this as an edit. When I have anecdotal experiences I try to site as such when there are scientific studies I do my best to at least provide info I am 99.999% ( called 5 - 9's for geek speek) certain of though a computer guy, I don't really know how to type as such it takes a while for my novels which I call a post! That and arthritis takes it's toll on my knuckles, gotta learn freakin' Dragon Naturally Speaking I think, in my spare time!

Another time perhaps I can relate that struggles of being male and the stupid lessons at Least I learned. One of which is crying as a man is not good. and years of therapy / counseling self help books mediation on and on. I still struggle to just allow my self to publicly cry be it a sad movie or other circumstance. Logically I am OK with it but still though much less often allow my self to be myself with others.

Ooopa gotta got to work! Best to all struggling with their journey leaving opiods behind or reducing them, they really do eat our souls in the end.
 
Last edited:

Blazinjones

Well-Known Member
@DonkeyDick ......:5::5::5:

Posts like this reinforce our feeling that this thread may be one of our finest collaborations. I'm so thankful you're finding relief at last. It's my belief that cannabis oils can change the world, but then we all knew that. :laugh2:

I went to dinner with a couple neighbors tonight and before the meal was behind us I'd shared the topical oil I carry in my pocket with both of them.


One of my companions has degenerative cervical vertebrae, and tonight was the first time she could move her neck freely in so many years she couldn't believe it. I'll be supplying her with more ASAP. I can't tease her with it when it's in my power to produce more. :4:

For me the next step will be learning to incorporate essential oils to potentiate the cannabis oils.

May I ask, are you using tumeric at all in your regimen? It has centuries of happy testimonials as to it's pain relieving abilities.
So i finally found a doc willing to write my meds and work with me to slowly lower me off of the fentanyl patches n the oxycodone. This saturday ill be starting the 87mcg patches versus the 100mcg im on currently. And ive been wanting to start tryn my hand at the topicals and different oils to help with pain so was wondering if u dnt mind me askn what was ur recipe for the topical? Also if i accidently let my bud sit out n forgot to cure it n its all dry crispy now wud tht still be gud for an oil run or sumthn or wud it have all degraded into cbd?
 


The Social Setting

There are a million and a half legal medical cannabis patients in the US right now. About 80-90% of them use medical cannabis for chronic pain. Chronic pain is a subjective condition, easily faked to get the prescription, which makes you wonder how many of that number where really pain patients. We believe cannabis should be available freely to all, so I'm not bothered by this, but Dr. Michele Sexton has an ongoing cannabis use survey with Bastyr University.

Of participants identified as medical cannabis users only, 61% used cannabis to manage pain. The second and third noted reasons for using cannabis were anxiety and depression, significant because pain patients often have anxiety and depression.

They did another analysis of this data, asking if patients substituted cannabis for prescribed medications. The survey included 2864 people, and 46% responded "Yes!"

The top medications they were substituting for were narcotics and opiates. The next two types of medications they were substituting for were anti-anxiety and anti-depression medications.

Medical cannabis patients were 4.6 times more likely than non-medical cannabis users to substitute cannabis for pain medications, and women were 6 times more likely to be substituting cannabis for their prescribed pain medications.

I'd say the patients have spoken and it's time someone listen.ped.

Data shows that 10-15% of chronic pain patients are actually using cannabis, in combination with other pain control medications, to reduce the opioid medications. About 80% of medical cannabis users report regular substitution of cannabis for other prescription pain meds, without their doctor's advice, and it's working for them.

With the tide of change concerning cannabis in our country a number of studies have contrasted medical states with non-medical states. Study of years between 1999 - 2010 showed a 30% reduction in opioid overdoses in states with medical cannabis laws. Another study found 28-30% fewer hospitalizations for opioid addiction in medical cannabis states. A study of Medicare and Medicaid patients found a reduction in prescribed pain and anxiety medications in the states with medical cannabis laws.

Studies suggest a patient can expect a 30% reduction in chronic pain using cannabis. This is the same effect one can expect from opioids. A study of patients already taking opioids found a nearly 30-35% reduction in pain perception when cannabis was added to the regimen.

Another study in 2016 showed that using cannabis resulted in a 65% reduction in the use of opioids, fewer side effects, and a remarkable 45% improvement in quality of life.

Yet another study of over 550 pain patients showed a 39% reduction in opioids used and 35% quit using prescription pain medications altogether with the addition of cannabis.

The biggest roadblock to using cannabis to reduce or eliminate opioid use is resistance from the medical community. Over 90% of doctors practicing in this country have never taken a class on or have any experience recommending cannabis. They're clueless to the biology and chemistry. They're concerned about recommending a recreational drug, and their most concerned about repeatable results. Getting cannabis to play by pharma rules isn't the neat transition everyone was hoping for.

In Dr. Smith's experience, doctors prescribing the opioids and benzodiazepines won't be open to the conversation on cannabis. If your doctor won't work with you there are a couple websites that can connect you to qualified, compassionate medical personnel that can work with you and your doctor.

These sites can help you in your search for a cannabis-friendly doctor. They may also be able to help you find a dispensary.
- WeedMaps.com
- MarijuanaDoctors.com
- Leafly.com

You'll need to sign a new opioid contract with your pain Doctor as well as possibly one with the cannabis doctor.

OK, let's learn some basics of the biology. I'll try to be gentle.
Thats an interesting article, the resistance of the medical profession to replacing opioid use with cannabis I would suggest has very little to do with their lack of knowledge on the subject. It has more to do with the pharmaceutical industry controlling and dictating to physicians what they will prescribe. Thats what we are up against, a multi trillion dollar industry fighting tooth and nail to maintain their market share and they have bought the medical industry lock stock and barrel who are in their pockets. And this is not just about cannabis, any alternative medical therapy which the pharmaceutical industry cannot gain a profit out is derided, howled down and buried regardless of its efficacy.
 

Alafornia

Well-Known Member
Thats an interesting article, the resistance of the medical profession to replacing opioid use with cannabis I would suggest has very little to do with their lack of knowledge on the subject. It has more to do with the pharmaceutical industry controlling and dictating to physicians what they will prescribe. Thats what we are up against, a multi trillion dollar industry fighting tooth and nail to maintain their market share and they have bought the medical industry lock stock and barrel who are in their pockets. And this is not just about cannabis, any alternative medical therapy which the pharmaceutical industry cannot gain a profit out is derided, howled down and buried regardless of its efficacy.
We can't leave the government out of the equation. Relatively few medical professionals receive money directly from pharm companies. Pharma pays the politicians, who then set policy and force the behavior they want to see through both licensing pressure and the threat of incarceration.
 
We can't leave the government out of the equation. Relatively few medical professionals receive money directly from pharm companies. Pharma pays the politicians, who then set policy and force the behavior they want to see through both licensing pressure and the threat of incarceration.
the government doesnt have policies on which drugs to prescribe for specific ailments, they only set guidelines for which drugs can be licensed.
 

Alafornia

Well-Known Member
the government doesnt have policies on which drugs to prescribe for specific ailments, they only set guidelines for which drugs can be licensed.
Respectfully disagree.
 
this is an old article but does show the extent of the problem.
Study Affirms Pharma's Influence on Physicians

Issue Section:

Physicians are under more intense financial pressure than ever to prescribe pharmaceutical manufacturers’ expensive new drugs even when cheaper, more established drugs may be at least as effective. Coupled with psychological or social pressure that may distort a doctor's judgment, the influence of free gifts and subtle economic incentives may have financial costs, according to several recent studies on the interactions between doctors and drug company representatives.
In 2004, pharmaceutical companies spent an average of $10,000 per practicing American physician on free meals, free continuing medical education (CME) training, free trips to conferences, and payments for various services, according to data compiled by IMS Health, a company monitoring the industry's finances. Those drug representatives also gave the average doctor an extra $21,000 in free drug samples. The total 2004 tab for drug representative strategies: $23.7 billion.
That's twice as much money as drug manufacturers spent influencing physicians just 6 years earlier, in 1998. T
 

Alafornia

Well-Known Member
this is an old article but does show the extent of the problem.

No argument there.

My earlier point - and I'm sorry for not being able to give a full explanation as I had to get back to work - was that the government's role can't be overlooked. The FDA approves drugs for certain conditions. Providers often do prescribe "off-label" and this is an accepted practice (though in some cases that can be a precarious line to walk).

The government also restricts some drugs to certain conditions, though, through direct rule or influence (e.g. suboxone, marinol) and outlaws others outright (cannabis being the obvious example).

And you better believe that when the CDC puts out a guideline and the states follow that up with more restrictive rules regarding certain prescriptions the government is making policies that determine what a patient will or won't get for certain ailments.

IOW, this is not a government or private industry question as far as who is the bad guy here. It's not either/or - it's both. And sometimes unscrupulous providers, too.

Private industry had its part to play in this and it was/is a big part, but when CMS (Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services) says hospital/doctor pay will depend on satisfaction surveys which treat pain as the fifth vital sign and asks patients to rate the effectiveness of their pain control the government just had a major influence on what drugs are prescribed. Same for when they move the other way with threats of (and sometimes actually) incarcerating doctors who provide services to those with chronic pain.

The government has screwed this up on both ends - first pushing doctors to write more pain meds and parroting the line that it won't cause addiction then later pushing people off those meds and often with no real plan to taper or find other alternatives that would keep people off heroin and other streets drugs that were used to replace the suddenly removed opioids.

IOW, the government (with private industry) created the problem and then made it even worse.

Sorry for the long rant. :)
 

Alafornia

Well-Known Member
Peace, brother.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
IOW, the government (with private industry) created the problem and then made it even worse.
Well said. :5: No one gets off the hook for this fiasco.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016

noobgrow1

Active Member
I don’t understand your confusion. Thanks for stopping. :5:
Getting to the point to actually see what "our" government does to it's people through corporate deregulation. Our economic divide has never been bigger. We tend to focus on low unemployment rates, but don't really hear much about what wages (if the numbers are even accurate about unemployment rate is) or benefits etc. of these supposed jobs.

To grasp the enormity of how we the people are not much more than an afterthought for politicians & corps is very difficult at least in my experience. One reason I do not discuss politics as most do, meaning candidate X vs Y or this party or that...They are two sides of the same coin.

Anyway to strip away our personal beliefs in a given system takes work, information, & motivation to challenge such ingrained habitual thinking. If I were not older and chronically suffering from pain & my other life challenges at my current stage in life I would still believe much of our media fed cultural beliefs. The more I learn the more I finally "get it" from my former life working in mental health I can tell you denial is a very crude basic defense. That said it is near impossible for an individual alone or in a vacuum of like minded ppl it only gets reinforced never challenged.

I commend the 420mag members in how you now we! Discuss with respect differing views be it cannabis related or other. Granted cannabis is our common ground the community here is in my experience one of the most open forums I have found online. And I have been on a while even back in the days of dial up and IRC channels I have not seen the back biting that is typical in open forums.

Also quick not to Sweet Sue, I replied w another diatribe I just kinda puke my thoughts out. It works for me but I also read and try to incorporate many of the suggestions made re: getting off opiods or minimally reducing. Much to be said about positive thinking, appropriate exercise and diet. In computers they love acronyms FIFO and GIGO are biggies.

FIFO = 1st in 1st out, GIGO = Garbage In Garbage Out our minds / brains are not so different being negative or associating with negative ppl often does produce affects personally. The reverse also holds hang with upbeat supportive but challenging individuals also will have profound influence. So I hear all the suggestions, lest ye think your words go unheard! :)
 

noobgrow1

Active Member
No argument there.

My earlier point - and I'm sorry for not being able to give a full explanation as I had to get back to work - was that the government's role can't be overlooked. The FDA approves drugs for certain conditions. Providers often do prescribe "off-label" and this is an accepted practice (though in some cases that can be a precarious line to walk).

The government also restricts some drugs to certain conditions, though, through direct rule or influence (e.g. suboxone, marinol) and outlaws others outright (cannabis being the obvious example).

And you better believe that when the CDC puts out a guideline and the states follow that up with more restrictive rules regarding certain prescriptions the government is making policies that determine what a patient will or won't get for certain ailments.

IOW, this is not a government or private industry question as far as who is the bad guy here. It's not either/or - it's both. And sometimes unscrupulous providers, too.

Private industry had its part to play in this and it was/is a big part, but when CMS (Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services) says hospital/doctor pay will depend on satisfaction surveys which treat pain as the fifth vital sign and asks patients to rate the effectiveness of their pain control the government just had a major influence on what drugs are prescribed. Same for when they move the other way with threats of (and sometimes actually) incarcerating doctors who provide services to those with chronic pain.

The government has screwed this up on both ends - first pushing doctors to write more pain meds and parroting the line that it won't cause addiction then later pushing people off those meds and often with no real plan to taper or find other alternatives that would keep people off heroin and other streets drugs that were used to replace the suddenly removed opioids.

IOW, the government (with private industry) created the problem and then made it even worse.

Sorry for the long rant. :)
Hey Alafornia -

You speak the truth, the docs are essentially unfortunately bound in a bad system. I do not think this "opiod crisis" has been caused by prescriptions. That depends of course of how you view the issue. What I get the "crisis" to be is more ppl are overdosing on heroin. That appears to be triggered by today's heroin being made more potent by the producers of the heroin putting fentanyl into their products.

I just heard yesterday the gov't not sure which agency is trying to stop prescription and production of fentanyl. Call me ignorant & perhaps I am, but the legal fentanyl is not the crisis nor will it slow production and import of it from China.

There are many places that have how the DEA skewed their numbers about legal pills, those numbers are why they started the Opiods are evil. They are no more evil than a firearm or a dog. The marketing pushes are evil & that is Big Pharma & our legislators. The way it's been so mishandled is criminal, it has forced some like me to perhaps look at other options & because I feel like a junkie now making the same requests that a doc would not bat an eye at 3 years ago.

Today it is so easy for the doc to NOW say or at least think it is "drug seeking" behavior. We have no health system in the US, it's a SICK system. Drug companies don't want meds that really cure much. They want something that you have to take to manage your complaints. Built in repeat business, I can recall my first doc giving me BP meds & I said well if I exercise and lose weight I can probably get off them right?

His look was one of oh my poor lad...usually this is lifetime. Imagine if the docs said hey BTW we know if you switched to a whole food mostly or all plant based diet will likely cure many of your woes...It's the truth but I don't know of maybe two docs that would have that discussion. Not because they want to give us pills but more so they have been trained to whip out the script pad.

Especially here in the US, we currently focus on evil opiods, but what about statins, blood pressure meds, in not so recent past antibiotics. It's usually a pill, shot, or surgery, but that is our medical model. The fact that small businesses cannot keep up with providing health insurance. That has some direct relationship to Pharma deregulation, most health insurance companies just follow what Medicare allows to pay for a drug or surgical procedure etc.

I forget what year but drug manufacturers just arbitrarily raised costs as much as $1000.00 a pill & get paid. For those of us living in the US the increased costs for Medicare are passed on through taxes. Which the same corps that make the medications reap record profits. I forgot who the congress or senate dude who had his job in the gov't for I swear less than a year before quitting & becoming a pharma lobbyist. They had a pic of him w / is signing bonus check for a couple of million.

There is so much money the politicians make for passing the right bills etc. if not while in office shortly after. Most ppl are really clueless about what really goes on in politics. From the more recent reading and documentaries I see it's been setup this way since the beginning. The same model is in place across the planet & has been since their have been humans. Instead of a dictator or monarchy we think voting in a President or specific congress, senate, mayor is really going to change things for the middle & lower classes. The only time these entities topple typically is violent revolution by the ppl or they get conquered by the next "Super Power"

Some ppl actually believe America all ppl are equal, I used to and seeing it otherwise is / was difficult. My intended point earlier, I wanted to convey...had I not suffered many of my present challenges I would still be on what I refer to as my hamster wheel. Wake up work 10 -12 hrs daily, 6-7 days week. come home eat hang w / family run kids around etc. You know, life shit...very difficult for me to stop and take stock when in production mode. Chasing the american dream, feeling like what difference will I make anyway. So I like lots of humans do the ostrich thing stick my head in the ground remember denial. ( Haha felt like Robert Plant a sec, "Does any one remember laughter?" )

The thing about denial is we do not know we are using this defense, that's why it's so hard to remove. The other thing is it is a crude B & W type thing, & we use it unconscionably to protect ourselves from feeling intense pain. Psychological or otherwise. I first learned about it while studying grief, as a male I learned some whacked out beliefs what gender rules were. I don;t blame anyone for it that's like getting mad that the sun goes down daily for night. But I am aware of what it has and still does cost me.

For years I was a clinician counselling & providing educational groups one of my favorite tools was parables. One of my faves that I used to use a parable when trying to illustrate habits, how we learn them & changing them. Sally cooks meatloaf frequently & her method is to mix up all ingredients make a 13" loaf then cut off 3 " - say 1.5 inch each end. One day she wonders about why she does it in such a manner. She decided she learned it from her Mom , as such she calls Mom and was all like, BTW, Ma, I was makin' some of your awesome meatloaf last night.

So she's like yeah Mom recipe is killer and all but what's the deal with making the 13" loaf and lopping off 1.5" off the ends. So Mom retorts, oh yeah well we only had a 10" pan.

While maybe oversimplification & obvious exaggeration this illustrates a lot of what we have programmed into our biological computers, but not really so much if I were to bet, we pickup a lot of our beliefs and mental framework from lots of poor sources. Sally's mom worked out a problem she had, while not perhaps the most efficient it was inadvertently picked up by Sally.

I am forever struggling to have my partner NOT watch CNN or whatever news station like EVER, number one as it get's her upset & worried. Reason two though is while I am surfing for something to watch I hear the background of whatever horrible thing they are repeating incessantly over and over. It's all fear based crap IMNSHO. They are media outlets and in dire need of content so they spew endlessly & work hard to keep our attention.

I have yet to watch or even read news that gives me a positive feeling after being exposed to it. I can get sucked in because they make it seem so urgent that I listen to them. Freaking "NEWS" stations now look like Football games with all the graphics etc. And if the presentation and focus wasn't bad enough they added the tickers across the bottom so you don't miss a horrible thing.

Ironically my hypothesis at least is most of media manipulation, & how the elite keep the masses status quo has been around as long as we have populated the earth. To quote Dragnet "only the names have been changed" but not to protect the innocent. The thing is we don't have a ton of time, our lifespan whatever it may be is but a blip in time, there's just too much else we have to or want to do.

Society & it's norms change little and do so very slowly. We also typically resist change, again not a conscious effort, but any changes require more effort. We have to adapt & god help us actually think about it! All of this when I just want to (fill in your own blank here). The effort I have to exert to challenge myself to find my meatloaves then evaluate if they are positive habits, negative, or just benign is quite a bit. Then once identified changing such programming can be very difficult, it requires effort, motivation, & some kind of support typically as well.

I know I tend to be a bit verbose & probably disjointed in my posts but try to get the msg across while increasing my commitment to be actively participating in our forums. My hope is someone out there can decipher enough to someway improve their own station in life. There is no ONE thing that will make us whole, I say more for me than you the reader! It is a balance of lifestyle, beliefs, diet on and on. It's all connected like it or not. So for me how can I affect some of what I believe positive change, well starts with cleaning up myself. Mind body spirit.

The other is to share my stories, experiences, & educational facts I have picked up on my own short time journey on this earth. Also I need to remain open to new information, that can be a challenge in and of itself. Well I could go on and on I know you are shocked! But I am gonna try to get my partner to try some crossbow target shooting! So fun for me at least, she will probably love it given half a chance.

So best to us all on this journey to improve our well being. Thanks for having me as a member of such an open community!
 

Alafornia

Well-Known Member
Hey Alafornia -

You speak the truth, the docs are essentially unfortunately bound in a bad system. I do not think this "opiod crisis" has been caused by prescriptions. That depends of course of how you view the issue. What I get the "crisis" to be is more ppl are overdosing on heroin. That appears to be triggered by today's heroin being made more potent by the producers of the heroin putting fentanyl into their products.

I just heard yesterday the gov't not sure which agency is trying to stop prescription and production of fentanyl. Call me ignorant & perhaps I am, but the legal fentanyl is not the crisis nor will it slow production and import of it from China.

There are many places that have how the DEA skewed their numbers about legal pills, those numbers are why they started the Opiods are evil. They are no more evil than a firearm or a dog. The marketing pushes are evil & that is Big Pharma & our legislators. The way it's been so mishandled is criminal, it has forced some like me to perhaps look at other options & because I feel like a junkie now making the same requests that a doc would not bat an eye at 3 years ago.
You make so many pertinent points about our medical "system", politics, human nature, greed, and life in general it is a shame that I feel the need to avoid some of those deeper conversations to focus on the main themes of this thread. Just know that your points are appreciated.

You are correct that most deaths today attributed to opioids are from the illicit stuff out there, but here's where I tie in prescription drugs to that phenomenon:

Back in the late 90's and early 00's several studies were released and then promoted that seemed to show that opioids were not addictive when used for short periods for pain. Furthermore, claims about long term opioids were made based on these and other studies. CMS (and other government agencies) set the tone for private insurance to join in to pressure doctors (with an assist from hospital administrators) to give patients more and better pain control. For instance, the rate hospitals would be paid would be based in part on patient surveys that included questions about their satisfaction with how their pain was managed. These are facts that are terribly important to the discussion at hand because this was the beginning of the boom of the opioid market.

Fast forward a number of years and suddenly people are realizing that some accepted "facts" were not facts at all and some of those may have been deliberate misrepresentations of fact by those who stood to make money by deception. People in power began to rethink things a little and it was then that they only worsened their original mistakes and sins by moving the needle full bore in the opposite direction. Now government agencies began directing and pushing prescribers to take people off opioids and did so without clear direction on tapering down and off. They also did not consider fully that their seeming one size fits all approach would not work for a large diverse population and so numerous caveats to the guidelines were obscured by the headline making materials. The medical community got the memo they intended and many began to suddenly remove opioids without much guidance for proper tapering and so many proceeded with a fast taper and then patted themselves on the back for being good little clinicians. Many went a step further and became opioid and benzo free clinics. While they had patient good in their sights it also has to be said that legal and licensing fears also played a big part in those decisions. These happenings are still ongoing and has been the general direction for the last several years (since at least 2016).

Now all those opioid users, many who used them as told for years along with those who abused them, still had pain and still had a dependence and some had a psychological addiction as well - well, they were now in trouble. A number committed suicide. Many more suffered in relative silence. And still others turned to the illicit market - which of course is not regulated and is saturated with adulterated products that are much more deadly than the regulated prescription opioid market.

The sad thing is that these supposed well meaning politicians who are trying to get legal drugs off the market - if they succeed - are only going to make the problem worse yet again. They will force people into illicit market which increases the danger to them. That's not to mention the enormous suffering of those who need something for their very real pain and will face choices that include suffering, suicide, and the illicit market.

That illicit market in many places still includes cannabis. Even where legal, medical practitioners are largely ignorant of cannabis and cannabis products. Very little research at all exists due to government constraints and the research that does exist is mostly lower quality and lacks in being robust.

All of these issues and more contribute to the opioid crisis and the suffering of many people who should not have to suffer like they do. It makes clinicians have a higher degree of suspicion of patients and this is actively encouraged (to some degree that is warranted and necessary but is often an easy out now).

We have no fundamental disagreement. My goal was to explain how the issues are related and expound upon my thoughts a little more since I have seen all these things happen with my own eyes.

The government has their boogeymen - big pharma, doctors, patients, and the opioids themselves. The powerful are going to display how "concerned" and "caring" they are and in doing so will make this even worse.

Cannabis can and should be used to help alleviate these problems. It was good to see Mayo Clinic come out with some guidelines for clinicians, but IMNSHO it didn't go far enough and is a lonely voice in a sea of confusion and disinformation. The flippin' Surgeon General just put out a statement about cannabis that is full of lies, half truths, and deliberate deception. An informed SG would tout the promise of cannabis with caveat warnings. Instead, we got what we got.

Thanks for joining the discussion with your passion and insight.
 

John Wick

Well-Known Member
@SweetSue

There's a new member here that reaching out for help.
Would anyone like to help?
He posted this 48 minutes ago.
He goes by @GrimReefer513 . It would be kinda cool if a few of you could stopped by. Thank you.

I copied and pasted this.


Hey guys thanks for all your help. I still haven't come up with a solution. I think I'm gonna buy a ticket to Denver. They seem to have the most resources for someone in my position. Suicide almost sounds like a freedom from my whole situation. I'm just being honest. I have a son though and I'm religious so I suppose that will never be an option... besides I enjoy life too much when I'm happy. It's just really fuckin tough right now. I'm almost ready to stand on a corner and beg for work cuz I'm not a bum. Idk. I've done so much research I dont think I can do anymore.... seems my best option is just to pick a city and pray.... if I had someone willing to give me a chance anywhere I'd just go but I dont trust people for the most part... not many people think like I do with nothing but the best intentions on their mind. As soon as I harvest my one plant I have I'm out of here. You guys have been my only crutch. My only help. Sad but true.... just ready to give up....
 

John Wick

Well-Known Member
@SweetSue

Here's the link to the thread.
It's called "Help Please"

Any help would be appreciated.

 
Top Bottom