420 Magazine Background

Pain

Dave Groomer

Well-Known Member
I'll refine my previous statement....
I might be a huge coffee snob that would consider any introduction of any foreign substance as unwelcome.
Don't even get me started about that chicory laden crap the farm out to our local tourists.
My wife and I like good coffee. That being said, I still like my 1/2&1/2 and sugar in it. :) :circle-of-love::peace:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
I've not enjoyed the taste of the olive oil I made, and oil in my coffee would seem bad, but I am a touch of a coffee snob.
I've been using OJ to mask the olive oil taste.
For edibles I try to use coconut oil instead of olive. The olive is an acquired taste. Some chemovars are a much better fit. Carnival has turned out to be the best-tasting choice so far.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
My wife and I like good coffee. That being said, I still like my 1/2&1/2 and sugar in it. :) :circle-of-love::peace:
Mmmmm.... You're gonna tempt me to swing through Starbuck's while I'm out. :laugh2:

Hey, I like the taste of chickory-flavored coffee. I once dug up the roots and made some fresh. I won't do that much work for coffee again, but it was delicious. It's an acquired taste, I suppose. :4:
 

alltatup

Active Member
I'm looking for people's thoughts and experiences on treating pain with cannabis. Over the last ten years, my life has been increasingly affected by crippling muscle and joint pain. It threatens to overshadow everything and shapes my perception of who I am in ways I really don't like. I have pretty good tolerance for pain and can take a lot without a whimper- but that's the sort of pain that goes away. Increasingly I'm whimpering, like a wimp. It just plain sucks being in constant pain. The problem isn't that it's at level 10, more that it's at level 5 or 6 but just won't quit. Increasingly I treat it with (natural) opiates. That's ok but once it gets to be a daily routine I feel like I'm walking a dangerous path.

I've got a high (hopefully) CBD strain close to harvest, and have my eye on a couple other likely pure indicas in the flowering room, to make oil, cream/whatever with. There's so much to read and learn about ways to ingest and ways to refine the herb into the right medicine. I'm working on that.

Info on how to make oil, CBD/THC ratios and stuff like that isn't really what I'm asking about, (though that's interesting too), as much as I'm looking for people's personal experiences with pain reduction itself. How it feels to treat pain with cannabis, and basically- how it works. Do you need to get high to reduce pain? Do you take oil capsules on a regular schedule but not get high from them? Smoke yourself into painless oblivion on the couch? Do you smoke, eat, vape the right strain/ratio- and the pain just 'melts away'? What's the experience like?

I do use cannabis- I smoke and vape to get high. But I generally stick to pure sativas only, because I don't like the indica high. The recommended strains for pain relief seem to be all indica. Maybe that's why I really don't make the connection between weed and pain relief. Yes there's a relief, maybe some pain relief- but mostly the pain still remains.
I feel like I'm really in the dark about this whole subject. Some part of me (which I really hope is wrong) isn't even convinced that pot does treat pain.

Thanks in advance for any info.

:thanks:
Hey Weasel I know I'm a year late, but I'ma state it anyway. You gotta learn to put the Indica on in the right blend. That's really what synergy is all about: if you can blend some heavy duty pain killing Indica in with other strains you like, you may find that the effects will start to show in a week or two. What I've discovered is that nothing works for me pain-wise immediately: it needs to build up in the ECS. I love my tincture blends: they're the best!!!
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Hey Weasel I know I'm a year late, but I'ma state it anyway. You gotta learn to put the Indica on in the right blend. That's really what synergy is all about: if you can blend some heavy duty pain killing Indica in with other strains you like, you may find that the effects will start to show in a week or two. What I've discovered is that nothing works for me pain-wise immediately: it needs to build up in the ECS. I love my tincture blends: they're the best!!!
Thanks altatup and and nice to see you again mate. Do you have your recipe posted anywhere?
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Weaselcracker, look for a combination of b-caryophyllene and limonene in the terp mix. Carnival looks to be an excellent candidate. She has all the requisite bits for the job at hand.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Ok I'll google some of my strains and see if those terpenes show up. My carnival is still a teenager at this point.
I have a friend who is in much more debilitating pain than I am right now. His doctor is refusing him any more than the mildest painkillers. So this is extra incentive for me to figure out some sort of pain meds. In his case I don't think it matters if they have a few indica type side effects. So in other words I can use him as a Guinea pig and he probably won't complain at all
I still feel like I'm not even at step one I figuring this out- but I do have a crockpot now so that's an important step. I didn't have a reliable way to decarb before now.
 

alltatup

Active Member
Thanks altatup and and nice to see you again mate. Do you have your recipe posted anywhere?
Weasel, I decarb buds in my Ardent Lift machine; I mix what I've grown, depending on what strikes me as a good combo. I made one tincture with the sugar leaves and larfy buds of WW, C99, Chemdawg, Iced Grapfruit, Lith. OGKush, and a little Black Domina, Cannatonic and one more. I crumble the bud with my fingers; I don't grind it and I try to disturb it as little as possible. I use 190 proof Everclear, cover the bud, leave it in the freezer for 2-4 weeks, shaking it occasionally. I strain through a double almond nut milk bag, and voila tincture! that I put in 2 oz dropper bottles and store in the freezer. I called that one 8 ball: super head high and super relaxing. With a tincture, for me the high ascends for around 45 minutes, then I'm high as fk for a couple of hours, then a descent into a state of relaxed good-humor all day at work. I take it around 4:30 in the morning: I do research and I write a lot at that time; then I go to work after the high has mellowed out.

I added some CBD slab to the 8 ball tincture, but I keep the THC:CBD ratio around what it is naturally in World of Seeds Afghan Kush: 20%THC, 5%CBD; the high is so much better for me with the CBD back in the mix. I harvested 2 CBD Nordle plants from my last grow and mixed a little of that with a lot of Afghan Kush and Mazar. I made another tincture with buds from WW, LOGK, & Iced Gfruit and added some CBD slab to that, too. I like to vape when I get home from work, but it's nowhere near as intense as the tincture. I love a good 3.5 hour high in the morning.

I'm planning out my next grow which I hope to start in June (gotta have a little operation first): I want to grow Royal Gorilla, OG Kush, NL, Lily, Euphoria CBD, Black Domina and Aurora Indica. I'm still growing new strains and mostly growing strains that I haven't grown previously; Like I wrote previously, you should try a blend and make sure there's CBD in there. I will bet you dollars to donuts that you will discover the pleasures of Indica medicine.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
I appreciate you expanding my horizons!
I googled the Ardent Lift machine. How could I resist, with a name like that? Looks cool but too small for my uses, and too expensive considering I just got a new in the box crockpot that looks like it holds over a gallon, for $2 at the thrift store....
I also googled 'CBD slab'.
Man.... the world of cannabis just keeps on expanding and growing out there. You sure don't see this stuff in stores around here, since we actually don't even have stores to speak of here in Antarctica.

I didn't quite gather how you rated the tincture with the CBD in it.
Does your tincture work for pain? If so - can you explain more about its effect?

It's been over thirty years since I first smoked indica. Yeah it's been a rocky relationship, but that didn't stop me from constantly trying to make it work. There are some things I like about the high. It's just that when I discovered sativas again, I realized I didn't have to put up with all the things I don't like about indica. Paranoia, red eyes, forgetfulness, confusion, munchies, hangovers, and a sense the next day of having moved 1/2 step backwards in life instead of forward.
Mainly though the paranoia/fear. It's been extreme for me with indica. I really have no time for that in my life anymore- even in low levels, when I can smoke herb that just makes me feel good.

Anyway- I've explained this all before, and quite possibly on this thread, I didn't read back to check- so I don't mean to just diss indicas. At all. Indicas and I do go way back- and I recognize that I'm one of the few that has so much trouble with that variety of our favourite magical plant.

Negative effects aside, I do like the warm physical glow, the revelations that come to me (which I almost invariably forget before the next day), and the special thrill it gives to playing and listening to music.

But - unless you're going to say that the tincture gives a totally different high, then all I'm really interested in the indicas for is pain reduction. Because indicas is all that's generally on the menu for pain relief. So it's a matter of finding that pain relief without the downside, hopefully.


I can't buy everclear here. Only if I pop over to Alaska which requires a long drive or a good boat. A still has been on my wish list for years.
With your tincture- how much alcohol are you adding to how much weed? Just enough to cover it, perhaps?
Seems odd that you let yours steep for weeks, when ISO extracts must be made in about 30 -60 seconds or the results suck. Maybe partly the fact that you're not smoking it so don't care what it tastes like? Still- that seems like a long time to soak...

:48:
 
Last edited:

alltatup

Active Member
I appreciate you expanding my horizons!
I googled the Ardent Lift machine. How could I resist, with a name like that? Looks cool but too small for my uses, and too expensive considering I just got a new in the box crockpot that looks like it holds over a gallon, for $2 at the thrift store....
I also googled 'CBD slab'.
Man.... the world of cannabis just keeps on expanding and growing out there. You sure don't see this stuff in stores around here, since we actually don't even have stores to speak of here in Antarctica.

I didn't quite gather how you rated the tincture with the CBD in it.
Does your tincture work for pain? If so - can you explain more about its effect?

It's been over thirty years since I first smoked indica. Yeah it's been a rocky relationship, but that didn't stop me from constantly trying to make it work. There are some things I like about the high. It's just that when I discovered sativas again, I realized I didn't have to put up with all the things I don't like about indica. Paranoia, red eyes, forgetfulness, confusion, munchies, hangovers, and a sense the next day of having moved 1/2 step backwards in life instead of forward.
Mainly though the paranoia/fear. It's been extreme for me with indica. I really have no time for that in my life anymore- even in low levels, when I can smoke herb that just makes me feel good.
Anyway- I've explained this all before, and quite possibly on this thread, I didn't read back to check- so I don't mean to just diss indicas. At all. Indicas and I do go way back- and I recognize that I'm one of the few that has so much trouble with that variety of our favourite magical plant.
Negative effects aside, I do like the warm physical glow, the revelations that come to me (which I almost invariably forget before the next day), and the special thrill it gives to playing and listening to music.
But - unless you're going to say that the tincture gives a totally different high, then all I'm really interested in the indicas for is pain reduction. Because indicas is all that's generally on the menu for pain relief. So it's a matter of finding that pain relief without the downside, hopefully.
I can't buy everclear here. Only if I pop over to Alaska which requires a long drive or a good boat. A still has been on my wish list for years.
With your tincture- how much alcohol are you adding to how much weed? Just enough to cover it, perhaps?
Seems odd that you let yours steep for weeks, when ISO extracts must be made in about 30 -60 seconds or the results suck. Maybe partly the fact that you're not smoking it so don't care what it tastes like? Still- that seems like a long time to soak...
Yes, the Lift is small. I have two of them, which definitely makes the job go much faster. I started serious investigations last Fall about how to decarb cannabis using the least amount of heat and how to make tincture. I also moved away from combustion, which is the least efficient way to medicate for me. (Tinctures work great for me the way that smoking works great for some and edibles for others; we each have to find the best method of delivery.) My principle goal was to get the most powerful synergy by preserving terpenes by using minimal heat. My sugar leaf tinctures are pretty green, but I wanted to extract more holistically from the leaves.
That's because I also discovered in the Fall that the leaves become very potent medicine during flower. One morning, I gently heated some leaves I'd trimmed in week 2 or 3 of flower (of all the 8 ball plants) and ate them with a little olive oil; I just wanted to get the nutrition from the dark leafy greens. Imagine my surprise when I got high as fk and stayed that way for 7-8 hours. There was a lot of pain relief. I wrote about it in various places; not many folks were interested or they didn't believe me. So I asked for volunteers on GWE and a bunch of folks tried the leaf -eating experiment. People who didn't ever get high with any kind of edible didn't get high, but other folks did. Here's the thread if you're interested: Calling for volunteers for a leaf-cooking and consuming experiment. - GrowWeedEasy.com Cannabis Growing Forum
This knowledge amazed me: the medicinal value of cannabis seems to be infinite. The key is discovering what works best for each one of us. I've gone through ups and downs learning how to use tincture, and one of the keys was descending from the high by the time I go to work. I miscalculated one morning, took the tincture too late, went to school, had a panic attack and had to cancel my classes and come home. I was just too wide open. The panic attack made the high more psychadelic in a funny kind of way. After I got home and lay down, I wondered how on earth did I get home, because it felt as if the drive home took place in an instant. I had to summon something really powerful in me to make that drive home, and the goddess cannabis assisted me all the way. At home, I relaxed into the high, and I slept a little.
For me, the keys to an exquisite high are to be in a very safe environment and to be with very safe people or alone. I think back to a couple of years ago and some crappy experiences I had because I got high with the wrong people. Now cannabis is too sacred for me to abuse her in that way.
When I first made the 8 ball in November, I got some fear/paranoia: it was very strong, and I wasn't used to it. Then I started incorporating CBD, but I preserved the THC high. I think two things were going on: I was getting CBD into the synergy and into my system, and I began to notice in a few weeks that my general anxiety was lessening. I also had a kind of consciousness revolution in the process as well: I transformed my intentionality towards cannabis: I started worshipping her rather than just using or exploiting her.

I get CBD slab from CBDistillery; best prices, I like their approach, clean product. I crumble the slab and add it to the tincture bottle; it's all infused within a day or so. I use the low THC high CBD strains I've grown so far to add CBD to a blend (like Afghan Kush 50%, Mazar 40% and CBD Nordle 10%. I love to vape that blend. The CBD slab is a very fast and efficient way to add this cannabinoid into a tincture (and allows me to focus my small growing capacity on high-THC strains). My experience was that that CBD needed to build up in my ECS; I didn't feel its effects immediately. But the new chemical synergy began to work on my anxiety, and it transformed my consciousness. Not CBD by itself, but with THC and all those delightful terpenes and other magical chemicals.

It's very interesting to hear about the negative effects that Indicas have given you; sounds just like what I felt when I first started using the tincture. You get high as fk on an Indica, but something about it disorients you or you lose your 'balance' and get paranoid. I wonder when it was harvested. The next day hangover is from very late-harvest indica, which is what will give "couch-lock" "narcotic" type effects. But not if it's harvested earlier.

First check your environment and the peeps you with (if there are any way up yonder). Then check where your head/life's at. Cannabis requires that I face and deal with conflict in my life, and this has been very therapeutic. She opened up a wider, more comfortable space within my consciousness where I've been able to do that. I've kept a written journal about all of this stuff, plus recipes, etc. I'd like to write a book vindicating the cannabis high to respond to all the literature out there about "healing without the high". The high should be totally healing.

FINALLY, Weasel, cannabis does bring me pain relief, but not if I'm eating inflammatory foods or sugar in any form. When I get all sugar out of my diet, I get pain relief from cannabis. It's one of her stipulations in her relationship with me.

I would imagine that opoids don't give a fk what kind of food one eats--they will take away all feeling--, but cannabis gives a fk.
 
Last edited:

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Wow! Thank you for this discussion. Whoa! I learned a ton just reading the first time.

I’ve decided the plant was made to be ingested. I’ll be starting my daughter on a juicing regimen soon. Very soon. For now her Indicas and vaporizer are keeping her breakthrough pain at bay.

@Weaselcracker, the indica terpenes for pain when ingesting or combusting is myrcene and B-caryophyllene. The linollol and B-caryophyllene is a sativa mix. I thought you were asking for yourself.

In the wild cannabis expresses at an even ratio or slightly higher in CBD. We’d do well to style our medicines thusly. Most disease states, chronic pain included, respond best to a 1:1 ratio.

Weaselcracker, your friend’s doctor is doing him a favor. You got this.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Wow thanks. Lots to digest and re-read after I get up and have a coffee.

Both of you guys should write those books. Maybe myself too. Down to earth and gritty life stories about this plant are what I like and the world could use. As a youngun I sure needed some actual reality based info on cannabis. I had no real clue about what I was smoking, for the first 25 years or so. Lol. Stoner friends, parents, government and society- none of them really had much useful to say.

I haven't used the opioids in several months, and barely at all in the last 8. I'd use them again, but they don't really work the way I would like. I've been keeping on top of stretching and trying to maintain my body from seizing up too much.
I stupidly failed to realize how much pain the constant opiate withdrawal was causing me. Probably everyone knows about this side effect but me. Every few days I'd be aching and crippled and could barely function. Time to take more poppies....

Altatup your experience cancelling class and driving home describes about 10,000 of my experiences when just having a puff or two of a joint, descending into a panic and fleeing into a sort of adrenaline filled nightmare. Been there and done that way too many times.

Sativas don't give me any of that fear. The sativa equivalent of that indica fear and that doubt that keeps creeping in whether I like it or not... with a good sativa it's almost the opposite. It's a pervading sense of happiness and humour that keeps creeping up on me in spite of myself.

I do still sometimes smoke a little indica. I enjoy Peyote Purple- it's a type of Bubba Kush. Pretty low THC. It's ok if I'm home at night and don't have to face anything too confusing. I like it for jamming and recording music. I still really don't lke the red eyes thing, and munchies, and foggy revelations of self doubt, and hangover.

Even just the fact that it turns my eyes bright red is enough to really ramp up the paranoia and wreck any desire to smoke it in public. Sativas do not have these effects on me.
I remember going to a corner store once in the grip of extreme munchies and the snot nosed kid at the counter asked in a sneering tone 'And would you like some bandaids for your eyes as well, sir??' I have to admit that's pretty funny shit, but at the time I was way too paranoid to enjoy the humour! :19::19:
Just give me the food, and my change, ya little shithead....
 

alltatup

Active Member
Wow thanks. Lots to digest and re-read after I get up and have a coffee.

Both of you guys should write those books. Maybe myself too. Down to earth and gritty life stories about this plant are what I like and the world could use. As a youngun I sure needed some actual reality based info on cannabis. I had no real clue about what I was smoking, for the first 25 years or so. Lol. Stoner friends, parents, government and society- none of them really had much useful to say.

I haven't used the opioids in several months, and barely at all in the last 8. I'd use them again, but they don't really work the way I would like. I've been keeping on top of stretching and trying to maintain my body from seizing up too much.
I stupidly failed to realize how much pain the constant opiate withdrawal was causing me. Probably everyone knows about this side effect but me. Every few days I'd be aching and crippled and could barely function. Time to take more poppies....

Altatup your experience cancelling class and driving home describes about 10,000 of my experiences when just having a puff or two of a joint, descending into a panic and fleeing into a sort of adrenaline filled nightmare. Been there and done that way too many times.

Sativas don't give me any of that fear. The sativa equivalent of that indica fear and that doubt that keeps creeping in whether I like it or not... with a good sativa it's almost the opposite. It's a pervading sense of happiness and humour that keeps creeping up on me in spite of myself.

I do still sometimes smoke a little indica. I enjoy Peyote Purple- it's a type of Bubba Kush. Pretty low THC. It's ok if I'm home at night and don't have to face anything too confusing. I like it for jamming and recording music. I still really don't lke the red eyes thing, and munchies, and foggy revelations of self doubt, and hangover.

Even just the fact that it turns my eyes bright red is enough to really ramp up the paranoia and wreck any desire to smoke it in public. Sativas do not have these effects on me.
I remember going to a corner store once in the grip of extreme munchies and the snot nosed kid at the counter asked in a sneering tone 'And would you like some bandaids for your eyes as well, sir??' I have to admit that's pretty funny shit, but at the time I was way too paranoid to enjoy the humour! :19::19:
Just give me the food, and my change, ya little shithead....
You made me laugh out loud there, Weasel!!! Bandaids for your eyes!!! bwahahahahahaha!!!
 

alltatup

Active Member
Wow! Thank you for this discussion. Whoa! I learned a ton just reading the first time.

I’ve decided the plant was made to be ingested. I’ll be starting my daughter on a juicing regimen soon. Very soon. For now her Indicas and vaporizer are keeping her breakthrough pain at bay.

@Weaselcracker, the indica terpenes for pain when ingesting or combusting is myrcene and B-caryophyllene. The linollol and B-caryophyllene is a sativa mix. I thought you were asking for yourself.

In the wild cannabis expresses at an even ratio or slightly higher in CBD. We’d do well to style our medicines thusly. Most disease states, chronic pain included, respond best to a 1:1 ratio.

Weaselcracker, your friend’s doctor is doing him a favor. You got this.
Sue, I've been looking and looking for information about CBD:THC ratios in landraces or cannabis that hasn't had the CBD bred out of it. Do you have any sources for this information? I'd love to learn more.
 

SweetSue

Member of the Year: 2015 & 2016 - Member of the Month: Mar 2015, Sept 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2017 - Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016
Sue, I've been looking and looking for information about CBD:THC ratios in landraces or cannabis that hasn't had the CBD bred out of it. Do you have any sources for this information? I'd love to learn more.
Neiko and I grew the same chemovar from seeds we brought back from Jamaica. We’re pretty sure it was close to wild as we’ve come across. It tested out as a 2:1 CBD:THC ratio and very high in b-caryophyllene. We have test results posted on the Jamaican Dreams thread. Purple Jamaican

Is that what you’re looking for?
 

alltatup

Active Member
Neiko and I grew the same chemovar from seeds we brought back from Jamaica. We’re pretty sure it was close to wild as we’ve come across. It tested out as a 2:1 CBD:THC ratio and very high in b-caryophyllene. We have test results posted on the Jamaican Dreams thread. Purple Jamaican

Is that what you’re looking for?
Not exactly. I'd like to know what the ratios were in various landrace strains before breeders started breeding out the CBD. My Afghan Kush (World of Seeds) is a landrace strain with 20% THC and high CBD (they say 5-10%); that's what I'd like to know about other landrace strains. I'm willing to bet that CBD info isn't up for a lot of landrace strains on the breeders' websites; I'll have to check.

But I'd like to know the "natural ratios" of landrace sativas and lr indicas. I absolutely love the Afghan Kush, and that's ranging somewhere between 4:1-2:1 THC:CBD.
 
Top Bottom