420 Magazine Background

PH rises and falls

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
My ph rises after a few days with ph Perfect nutrients. It would sometimes drop to 5.4 from 5.5 but I was directed that I had air in my 20 gallon reservoir was the reason for the fall ! Removed the air and now my reservoir only rises slowly from 5.5 -5.9 is when I change the water and nutrients.
Now I’m seeing one in dwc that falls like a rock , he’s using flora micro, grow, bloom! My setup is flood and drain
verses his dwc . What can he do in dwc to correct this ?
 

Chris Scorpio

New Member
This may help a bit

Also is it tap water or RO water. Tap can have buffers that battle the pH of nutes. I used pH perfect nutes and I always had fluxuation issues. I figured it was due to only running half strength


D7FBC97A-652A-46A3-89BA-21696A057A01.jpeg
CA268144-7EAA-4F77-90A3-77EB2D2D1B80.jpeg
33E5D78B-F7FE-4CA1-AFF1-039601DFD516.jpeg
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
He’s running tap water ! I have the lower chart from Grandpa Tokin . I like the ones above hadn’t seen these .
He has the problem with all three buckets , there in the low 4s ph by the time he changes the water and nutrients. @Grand Daddy Black . I had fluctuations in ph when I had air in the reservoir, now it’s spot on ! @InTheShed brought this to my attention in my second grow.
I’ve run my A N nutrients at 25% and 50% in my completed journals .
What gets me is his ph falls and mine rises towards the depleted nutrients!
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
My ph rises after a few days with ph Perfect nutrients. It would sometimes drop to 5.4 from 5.5 but I was directed that I had air in my 20 gallon reservoir was the reason for the fall ! Removed the air and now my reservoir only rises slowly from 5.5 -5.9 is when I change the water and nutrients.
Now I’m seeing one in dwc that falls like a rock , he’s using flora micro, grow, bloom! My setup is flood and drain
verses his dwc . What can he do in dwc to correct this ?
Is he adding anything on a regular basis after making the solution? Some extra additive? Could it be he's being too enthusistic with his pH monitoring and adding too much acid too often? What's the pH of his plain water before adding anything?
 
Last edited:

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
Is he adding anything on a regular basis after making the solution?
From his post a weekly change is all I see . He checks the ph and tds of the old water and nutrients which has been a good idea in dwc . Needs to watch his ph daily!
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
From his post a weekly change is all I see . He checks the ph and tds of the old water and nutrients which has been a good idea in dwc . Needs to watch his ph daily!
Makes a change from reading somebody's fannying with it every 5 minutes and killing with too much love. Less is more but it looks like he's taken that idea too far if he's only checking once a week!. :)
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
Makes a change from reading somebody's fannying with it every 5 minutes and killing with too much love. Less is more but it looks like he's taken that idea too far if he's only checking once a week!. :)
We are helping him get it right ,I see dwc on your grow he would like to get help from fellow dwc @Grand Daddy Black . I see hps as I’m doing this grow . I’m coming to check your grow out ! Your signature doesn’t work!
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
We are helping him get it right ,I see dwc on your grow he would like to get help from fellow dwc @Grand Daddy Black . I see hps as I’m doing this grow . I’m coming to check your grow out ! Your signature doesn’t work!
It's not a link - never occurred to me to make one but will do shortly. I'm a noob here. :) I had to start that grow again and I'm on week one going into week two again. I damaged the roots from careless accidents, In about two weeks, or when the plant is at the same stage, I will resume the journal from where it is now. No point in putting up what I've already done with this plant... it's all the same.
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
It's not a link - never occurred to me to make one but will do shortly. I'm a noob here. :) I had to start that grow again and I'm on week one going into week two again. I damaged the roots from careless accidents, In about two weeks, or when the plant is at the same stage, I will resume the journal from where it is now. No point in putting up what I've already done with this plant... it's all the same.
I understand give me a @West Hippie when you start it up ! Be looking for you .
 

Sonman

Well-Known Member
My dwc run as well dropped ph irratic, I ended up getting a better air pump and it fixed it all. think that as my root ball got bigger and the 2 air stones was not pushing enough air for the roots to stay healthy . After going 4 stones it never had a issue after. I'm thinking even the stone position In the tank helps as it impacts water flow in the tank.
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
My dwc run as well dropped ph irratic, I ended up getting a better air pump and it fixed it all. think that as my root ball got bigger and the 2 air stones was not pushing enough air for the roots to stay healthy . After going 4 stones it never had a issue after. I'm thinking even the stone position In the tank helps as it impacts water flow in the tank.
Thanks for the reply, what size stone , is it round or long , is it 4” ?
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
It's nothing to do with the airstone imo mate.
If the pH isn't behaving it's because the ppm isn't right.
The ppm should be dropping just a little from day to day. That's the only way the pH will behave properly.
If it rises at all the mix is too strong.
If it drops more than 10% per day then it's too week.
Stays just dropping slightly by like 5% or less per day and it's spot on.
The pH will rise and fall at 0.1 per day as it's supposed to and you get a full week before it gets out of range no problem :)

There's a bit more to it than that but in a nutshell.
Gotta keep that ppm just dropping for the pH to behave properly though.
Post a pic and I'll be able to give you a pretty accurate guess as to the magic numbers mate :)
 

Sonman

Well-Known Member
I was reading that if roots are suffering or trending towards root death the ph will drop depending what . I started off with 2 small 1 inch stones that came with a paw fly pump. Clearly it was not enough. I got a 4 lead pump with 4, 2.5 inch stones. This's was for 3 plants in a single 15 gallon tote. It was dropping on average 1.5 ph daily. Even 2 res changes did not help. After pulling my hair out for 2 weeks and getting annoyed with dwc I found the article. Changed the pump and placed the 4 stones below the root mass . 1 directly under each pot. The problem went away and never came back. Yes I had minor ph adjustments but I went from an Insame amount of ph adjustment almost daily to almost one minor adjustment per week After the change I was going almost all week without adjustment for another 2 months of flower.yes that chart is awesome above and it's great. This is just my experience with dwc and all I can say is follow the guide above and don't buy a crappy air pump. Cheers
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
It's nothing to do with the airstone imo mate.
If the pH isn't behaving it's because the ppm isn't right.
The ppm should be dropping just a little from day to day. That's the only way the pH will behave properly.
If it rises at all the mix is too strong.
If it drops more than 10% per day then it's too week.
Stays just dropping slightly by like 5% or less per day and it's spot on.
The pH will rise and fall at 0.1 per day as it's supposed to and you get a full week before it gets out of range no problem :)

There's a bit more to it than that but in a nutshell.
Gotta keep that ppm just dropping for the pH to behave properly though.
Post a pic and I'll be able to give you a pretty accurate guess as to the magic numbers mate :)
Not according to the chart I use a dropping ph is not allowed! These charts are above in Chris #2 post . Every hydro grower in here that has found it ends up calling it a Bible !
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
Not according to the chart I use a dropping ph is not allowed! These charts are above in Chris #2 post . Every hydro grower in here that has found it ends up calling it a Bible !
The only discrepancy in that chart I've seen so far is it says to check pH after ppm, when it should be before because pH has a major effect on the result of the ppm meter... the pH ions influence the solution conductance more than the nutrients. One has to be consistent with the pH at the same level before doing a ppm reading. This is advised by the chemist who invented Hydrobuddy.
 
Last edited:

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
The only discrepancy in that chart I've seen so far is it says to check pH after ppm, when it should be before because pH has a major effect on the result of the ppm meter. One has to be consistent with the pH at the same level before doing a ppm reading. This is advised by the chemist who invented Hydrobuddy.
I always record my ppm before ph . If I didn’t use any nutrients I know the ph is off . I know if you have to change the ph base and acid raises the ppm I do see that ! Really not seeing the order of how testing would otherwise make any difference. I use the bottom chart water, ec ppm, then ph .
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
I always record my ppm before ph . If I didn’t use any nutrients I know the ph is off . I know if you have to change the ph base and acid raises the ppm I do see that ! Really not seeing the order of how testing would otherwise make any difference. I use the bottom chart water, ec ppm, then ph .
Here's my source with selected quotes from it:

What are the limitations of EC in hydroponics ?

The first limitation arises because of the chemical character of the property we are measuring. Since EC is proportional to the amount of dissolved salts in each solution, you could suppose that measuring EC would always allow you to calculate nutrient concentrations within your nutrient solution. This is wrong ! Salts increase conductivity but each different ion present inside the solution has a different specific conductivity (they contribute differently to the overall EC) so you could in fact be deceived because you could just have a small amount of an ion that conducts a lot or too much of an ion with a small conductivity. Of paramount importance are the ions that determine pH which have conductivities hundreds of times larger than other ions.

What are some common mistakes when measuring EC ?

Given the above mentioned conditions, EC should always be measured at a constant pH. An EC measured at pH 5 and an EC measured at a pH of 7 will be completely different given that the ions which determine pH have a very large effect on the EC value. Another important fact is that the conductimeter should be calibrated using a solution of known conductivity. If it is not, comparison between measurements can be meaningless.


In a nutshell, the effects of the OH- ion and H+ ion overwhelms the effect of the mineral ions if not taken into consideration.
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020
Here's my source with selected quotes from it:
I Understand but I’m just recording what ppm I have at the same time and checking ph at the same time . After I record that and the ph is off and I have to correct it the ppm changes so I re-record it and the new ph . Doesn’t matter if I have to lower it or raise the ph the ppm is coming up !
 
Top Bottom