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PH rises and falls

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
You are very correct in stating that "you are entitled to your opinion" as that goes along with free speech . Now I offer my opinion not through something that I have read or something that someone told but through experience . see the funny thing is when I started growing cannabis in hydroponics in the mid 90's the fuss about ph was keeping it around 6.3 the entire grow and there weren't any go to forum sites that offered opinions and insight and well the discussion has evolved along with ph Suggestions as well as the nutrients that are available and how they are chelated not to mention the types of hydroponic systems. I have used 4 different types one of which I built myself (high pressure aero).

so when I offer my opinion it is based on what I have seen over the decades and can be absorbed or cast aside its the readers choice and I don't have a problem with that . All I know is that I have offered them the best Opinion based on Knowledge that I can based on the years/decades that I have been toying with this .

one other thing that people need to consider hugely is the manufactures recommendation for ph on the product they are using as they made them and know how they are chelated and have designed them to work and it what kind of system.

might I ask how many grows you have completed starting off with a ph of 5.5? I feel its a fair question as you offer no insight as to why you feel that my Opinion is just an Opinion and has no factual data behind it . I state that because I have seen some of your posts and we have come across each other here and im sure we will continue to so and the way you quoted and responded is typical to wanting to end discussion on the topic because you have a different view (which is fine by me)but don't offer honest facts as to why its just someones opinion ...stating that starting at 5.8 because you are looking for a static ph is actually ridiculous and not factual . If you took the time to read all the posts you will see that I actually talk about fluctuation.

you as well as people that took the time to read this may be wondering why I wrote and said what I did , some may even feel that im coming down on you . That isn't the case at all .

The reason I wrote all of this is because information is dangerous. We all want to help one another but when we talk about only what we have read or heard and someone takes that as truth it can have a negative impact on them as well as those that that information was passed onto by them .

one example is someone stating you can grow a cannabis plant in a stagnant solution (without aeration) although it is true by 100% (Kratky method) a person taking that information and trying to grow a cannabis plant full term bearing good fruits will fail. Just because it is written doesn't mean that it is so or that it will work as it is written . everything is just a guide as no 2 grows are truly identical.

also know that I don't have to be right and im okay with being wrong ...if im not wrong im not learning anything and im not afraid to learn.
I didn’t expect this to go this way . This was a post to help another grower !
I run the full line of Advanced Nutrients ph Perfect for over three years now and had to learn how to use them . On there bud lab sight not enough info! My ph keeps going to 5.45 every time I mixed a batch . 7 days later checked the ph and it was 6.0 no big deal ! Mix a new batch 5.45 ph , so I get on the phone with Advanced Nutrients. Was told it was normal that it rose as it should so I said okay .
I always wanted to know why it did this then Emilya and Bobbrown on a newbie now my nutrients make sense.
The other grower had 3 gallon buckets in dwc was his ph problem!
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
You are very correct in stating that "you are entitled to your opinion" as that goes along with free speech . Now I offer my opinion not through something that I have read or something that someone told but through experience . see the funny thing is when I started growing cannabis in hydroponics in the mid 90's the fuss about ph was keeping it around 6.3 the entire grow and there weren't any go to forum sites that offered opinions and insight and well the discussion has evolved along with ph Suggestions as well as the nutrients that are available and how they are chelated not to mention the types of hydroponic systems. I have used 4 different types one of which I built myself (high pressure aero).

so when I offer my opinion it is based on what I have seen over the decades and can be absorbed or cast aside its the readers choice and I don't have a problem with that . All I know is that I have offered them the best Opinion based on Knowledge that I can based on the years/decades that I have been toying with this .

one other thing that people need to consider hugely is the manufactures recommendation for ph on the product they are using as they made them and know how they are chelated and have designed them to work and it what kind of system.

might I ask how many grows you have completed starting off with a ph of 5.5? I feel its a fair question as you offer no insight as to why you feel that my Opinion is just an Opinion and has no factual data behind it . I state that because I have seen some of your posts and we have come across each other here and im sure we will continue to so and the way you quoted and responded is typical to wanting to end discussion on the topic because you have a different view (which is fine by me)but don't offer honest facts as to why its just someones opinion ...stating that starting at 5.8 because you are looking for a static ph is actually ridiculous and not factual . If you took the time to read all the posts you will see that I actually talk about fluctuation.

you as well as people that took the time to read this may be wondering why I wrote and said what I did , some may even feel that im coming down on you . That isn't the case at all .

The reason I wrote all of this is because information is dangerous. We all want to help one another but when we talk about only what we have read or heard and someone takes that as truth it can have a negative impact on them as well as those that that information was passed onto by them .

one example is someone stating you can grow a cannabis plant in a stagnant solution (without aeration) although it is true by 100% (Kratky method) a person taking that information and trying to grow a cannabis plant full term bearing good fruits will fail. Just because it is written doesn't mean that it is so or that it will work as it is written . everything is just a guide as no 2 grows are truly identical.

also know that I don't have to be right and im okay with being wrong ...if im not wrong im not learning anything and im not afraid to learn.
Sources matter and I tend to search for the cited science and less so for anecdotes since correlation is not causation. Ive grown about 6 times in soil. The thing with science is that something is only true until something comes along and shows it ain't so. I argue daily on a science forum, so an adversarial approach is something I'm used to, particularly when peope confidently assert gross generalizarions or errors. The important thing is I attack the post not the person, so it's not personal.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
I didn’t expect this to go this way . This was a post to help another grower !
I run the full line of Advanced Nutrients ph Perfect for over three years now and had to learn how to use them . On there bud lab sight not enough info! My ph keeps going to 5.45 every time I mixed a batch . 7 days later checked the ph and it was 6.0 no big deal ! Mix a new batch 5.45 ph , so I get on the phone with Advanced Nutrients. Was told it was normal that it rose as it should so I said okay .
I always wanted to know why it did this then Emilya and Bobbrown on a newbie now my nutrients make sense.
The other grower had 3 gallon buckets in dwc was his ph problem!
to me its still a discussion it hasn't gone bad in my eyes .
In regards to Advanced PH perfect nutrients I have used them ...one thing you need to understand is that are heavily chelated and all nutrients are available to the plant under and ph that promotes growth as well as ph levels that do not . Using them in hydro if using the complete line ...I would stay away from their b52 and nirvana the ph was never perfect but the chelation is .
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
Sources matter and I tend to search for the cited science and less so for anecdotes since correlation is not causation. Ive grown about 6 times in soil. The thing with science is that something is only true until something comes along and shows it ain't so. I argue daily on a science forum, so an adversarial approach is something I'm used to, particularly when peope confidently assert gross generalizarions or errors. The important thing is I attack the post not the person, so it's not personal.
mine is definitely no where near personal … As you stated Sources matter and that is why I had to ask how many times you have grown with a starting ph of 5.5 . I see that you have soil growing under your belt . Congrats . However Hydro is a different animal .
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
to me its still a discussion it hasn't gone bad in my eyes .
In regards to Advanced PH perfect nutrients I have used them ...one thing you need to understand is that are heavily chelated and all nutrients are available to the plant under and ph that promotes growth as well as ph levels that do not . Using them in hydro if using the complete line ...I would stay away from their b52 and nirvana the ph was never perfect but the chelation is .
I've noticed with GHnutrients, if I pH the water to my target prior to adding the nutes it holds within a couple of points and won't move much until I add beneficials. This a work inprogress for me atm.
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
mine is definitely no where near personal … As you stated Sources matter and that is why I had to ask how many times you have grown with a starting ph of 5.5 . I see that you have soil growing under your belt . Congrats . However Hydro is a different animal .
Yes, it is and Im enjoying the journey getting to grips with the variables. Ultimately, it should be more controllable. I'm leaning towards fluxing my pH and letting my nutes run down to a certain level then changing it.
 
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No Pain

Well-Known Member
I've noticed with GHnutrients, if I pH the water to my target prior to adding the nutes it holds within a couple of points and won't move much until I add beneficials. This a work inprogress for me atm.
No worries Im hear to lend a hand if I can . Any information that I pass on will be based on experience unless otherwise stated.

I have used GH and when I mixed them to their specifications it was always automatically at their recommended ph. Now some beneficial bacteria will affect ph (make it drop) when they die off. I would recommend hydrogaurd as it has never affected my ph.
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
You are very correct in stating that "you are entitled to your opinion" as that goes along with free speech . Now I offer my opinion not through something that I have read or something that someone told but through experience . see the funny thing is when I started growing cannabis in hydroponics in the mid 90's the fuss about ph was keeping it around 6.3 the entire grow and there weren't any go to forum sites that offered opinions and insight and well the discussion has evolved along with ph Suggestions as well as the nutrients that are available and how they are chelated not to mention the types of hydroponic systems. I have used 4 different types one of which I built myself (high pressure aero).

so when I offer my opinion it is based on what I have seen over the decades and can be absorbed or cast aside its the readers choice and I don't have a problem with that . All I know is that I have offered them the best Opinion based on Knowledge that I can based on the years/decades that I have been toying with this .

one other thing that people need to consider hugely is the manufactures recommendation for ph on the product they are using as they made them and know how they are chelated and have designed them to work and it what kind of system.

might I ask how many grows you have completed starting off with a ph of 5.5? I feel its a fair question as you offer no insight as to why you feel that my Opinion is just an Opinion and has no factual data behind it . I state that because I have seen some of your posts and we have come across each other here and im sure we will continue to so and the way you quoted and responded is typical to wanting to end discussion on the topic because you have a different view (which is fine by me)but don't offer honest facts as to why its just someones opinion ...stating that starting at 5.8 because you are looking for a static ph is actually ridiculous and not factual . If you took the time to read all the posts you will see that I actually talk about fluctuation.

you as well as people that took the time to read this may be wondering why I wrote and said what I did , some may even feel that im coming down on you . That isn't the case at all .

The reason I wrote all of this is because information is dangerous. We all want to help one another but when we talk about only what we have read or heard and someone takes that as truth it can have a negative impact on them as well as those that that information was passed onto by them .

one example is someone stating you can grow a cannabis plant in a stagnant solution (without aeration) although it is true by 100% (Kratky method) a person taking that information and trying to grow a cannabis plant full term bearing good fruits will fail. Just because it is written doesn't mean that it is so or that it will work as it is written . everything is just a guide as no 2 grows are truly identical.

also know that I don't have to be right and im okay with being wrong ...if im not wrong im not learning anything and im not afraid to learn.
Chk Chk BOOM!!!!
Wow
Haha that was awesome mate.
I'm gonna start a go fund me page to hire a marching pipe band to just walk behind you all day long blasting out whatever your heart desires.
If that doesn't deserve having your own theme music I don't know what does :) :)

Also, what you mean by high pressure aero? The roots in air, sprayed with a mister kinda thing?
I grow NFT which is similar-ish.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is and Im enjoying the journey getting to grips with the variables. Ultimatel, it should be more controllable. I'm leaning towards fluxing my pH and letting my nutes run down to a certain level then changing it.
if you are really wanting to dive into Hydroponics these tools are a must have ...a good ph meter a good ec/tds/ppm meter and a chiller .... for meters I recommend blue lab and hanna ...I currently use blue lab hanna was my first ( so yeah she is special).
the trick is in watching your ec/tds/ppm fall or rise and the direction your ph goes ..following those will give you the opportunity to dial in the amount of feed for your plants in your system as not all systems are equally efficent and not all strains require the same amount of feed and not all nutrient lines are created equal …. so everything is a basline suggestion .
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
to me its still a discussion it hasn't gone bad in my eyes .
In regards to Advanced PH perfect nutrients I have used them ...one thing you need to understand is that are heavily chelated and all nutrients are available to the plant under and ph that promotes growth as well as ph levels that do not . Using them in hydro if using the complete line ...I would stay away from their b52 and nirvana the ph was never perfect but the chelation is .
I appreciate the advice on the nirvana i have it in the reservoir!
I like discussions as well.
I’ve only taken growing seriously about a year ago after I retired . I’ve grown for 6 years this month . Never had a problem till I turned the Co2 on !
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
Also, what you mean by high pressure aero? The roots in air, sprayed with a mister kinda thing?
I grow NFT which is similar-ish.
thank you and for the high pressure aero ...click the link in my sig...its a grow and system im started on in 2016 there was I did make one other version after that grow I can post a pic if you like ...however I now longer use that system as it had the same efficiency as what I use now and what led me to what I use now ...it was hella cool though ...roots just hanging in free air …. until the last version that is ..the last had the last inch of roots in circulating solution as a safety feature guarding against power or pump failure .
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the advice on the nirvana i have it in the reservoir!
I like discussions as well.
I’ve only taken growing seriously about a year ago after I retired . I’ve grown for 6 years this month . Never had a problem till I turned the Co2 on !
If you put nirvava in their you need to flush your system !!!! its organic and will cause root issues !!! organics in hydroponics = NO NO
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
if you are really wanting to dive into Hydroponics these tools are a must have ...a good ph meter a good ec/tds/ppm meter and a chiller .... for meters I recommend blue lab and hanna ...I currently use blue lab hanna was my first ( so yeah she is special).
the trick is in watching your ec/tds/ppm fall or rise and the direction your ph goes ..following those will give you the opportunity to dial in the amount of feed for your plants in your system as not all systems are equally efficent and not all strains require the same amount of feed and not all nutrient lines are created equal …. so everything is a basline suggestion .
I have a Bluelab Truncheon and HM Digital PH200.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
forgot to add get some hydroguard and put at least double the recommended amount in your system to combat any bad bacteria that the nirvava may have introduced …… root rot (bad bacteria) causes ph to drop .
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
If you put nirvava in their you need to flush your system !!!! its organic and will cause root issues !!! organics in hydroponics = NO NO
I’m running URB also in this flood and drain. My nutrients intake has been amazing. It’s cleaning the reservoir of nutrients. It slowed down a couple days ago when I started clearing bud sites . This URB is so organic I had a hard time getting it off my blue lab probes.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
Why is that. I use mycorr in my netpot.
im not familiar with it unless you are referring to beneficial bacteria . If its benies you are referring to I believe that brand is used primarily for soil … I do not know how that would react in hydro ...the only benies I use are recommended for hydro .
Nirvava is not beneficial bacteria ..its organic matter and it does not break down well in a hydroponic solution it builds on the roots and then the nasties come to play .
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
I’m running URB also in this flood and drain. My nutrients intake has been amazing. It’s cleaning the reservoir of nutrients. It slowed down a couple days ago when I started clearing bud sites . This URB is so organic I had a hard time getting it off my blue lab probes.
Im am not familiar with that product... but I am familiar with if its organic its bad in water culture .
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
Sources matter and I tend to search for the cited science and less so for anecdotes since correlation is not causation. Ive grown about 6 times in soil. The thing with science is that something is only true until something comes along and shows it ain't so. I argue daily on a science forum, so an adversarial approach is something I'm used to, particularly when peope confidently assert gross generalizarions or errors. The important thing is I attack the post not the person, so it's not personal.
See mate. This is why things get heated round here. Don't take this the wrong way but there's a few of you well known guys that do it. 1 of the others was just mentioned. You know your shit in soil. That i dont doubt but honestly man if you don't grow hydro then you can't possibly really understand how it works.
Soil science does not apply to us in any way, shape or form. And I don't me a that in a dickish way mate.
Everything We do is the exact opposite from what you do and yous just aren't grasping that fact.

Best example I think is..

Too much water kills your plants because they suffocate from a lack of oxygen due to the solid media. You all think it's over watering and will swear on your pensions that it can't be anything else........

But here we are.
We grow with our roots in either nothing but water(dwc), nothing but air(airoponics), or top half in air bottom half in water like me which is NFT.
Then there's the flood and drain team which do exactly what it says on the tin.

Then there's coco.... and it doesn't make the slightest bit of a difference. It's a hydroponic media. There's nothing in it.
It's basically just a sponge of no other use than to hold the roots together.
Water runs right through the shit and you get the best possible results from doing everything id tell you to do If I wanted you to kill your soil grow.
If coco dries out it holds purified nutrients in an innert media and it burns, the roots dry out and they die.
Crop fucked.
I grow in 4 inch Rockwool cubes that get fed around 60Litres a day with the roots on a shelf in nothing but fresh air. Feed that like a soil plant once and it's dead in 24 hours. You ever seen what happens to roots when they're in nothing but a dry sponge? Doesn't take long for them to fry one way or the other I can assure you.
Our ways all follow exactly the same rules as every other hydroponic method.
If you apply any of our rules to your grow it'll die so please stop arguing with us how to grow.
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
im not familiar with it unless you are referring to beneficial bacteria . If its benies you are referring to I believe that brand is used primarily for soil … I do not know how that would react in hydro ...the only benies I use are recommended for hydro .
Nirvava is not beneficial bacteria ..its organic matter and it does not break down well in a hydroponic solution it builds on the roots and then the nasties come to play .
They are actually endomycorrhiza fungi with seaweed nutrient which penetrate and populate the roots and engage in a symbiotic exchange of nutrients as well as acting as a barrier against root pathogens, I have other bacteria for the tank wateras well but might leave them out to see if this group is enough.
 
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