420 Magazine Background

PH rises and falls

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
See mate. This is why things get heated round here. Don't take this the wrong way but there's a few of you well known guys that do it. 1 of the others was just mentioned. You know your shit in soil. That i dont doubt but honestly man if you don't grow hydro then you can't possibly really understand how it works.
Soil science does not apply to us in any way, shape or form. And I don't me a that in a dickish way mate.
Everything We do is the exact opposite from what you do and yous just aren't grasping that fact.

Best example I think is..

Too much water kills your plants because they suffocate from a lack of oxygen due to the solid media. You all think it's over watering and will swear on your pensions that it can't be anything else........

But here we are.
We grow with our roots in either nothing but water(dwc), nothing but air(airoponics), or top half in air bottom half in water like me which is NFT.
Then there's the flood and drain team which do exactly what it says on the tin.

Then there's coco.... and it doesn't make the slightest bit of a difference. It's a hydroponic media. There's nothing in it.
It's basically just a sponge of no other use than to hold the roots together.
Water runs right through the shit and you get the best possible results from doing everything id tell you to do If I wanted you to kill your soil grow.
If coco dries out it holds purified nutrients in an innert media and it burns, the roots dry out and they die.
Crop fucked.
I grow in 4 inch Rockwool cubes that get fed around 60Litres a day with the roots on a shelf in nothing but fresh air. Feed that like a soil plant once and it's dead in 24 hours. You ever seen what happens to roots when they're in nothing but a dry sponge? Doesn't take long for them to fry one way or the other I can assure you.
Our ways all follow exactly the same rules as every other hydroponic method.
If you apply any of our rules to your grow it'll die so please stop arguing with us how to grow.
I'm not applying soil science to this grow. I'm treating it like a chemistry project,
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
They are actually endomycorrhiza fungi with seaweed nutrient which penetrate and populate the roots and engage in a symbiotic exchange of nutrients as well as acting as a barrier against root pathogens, I have other bacteria for the tank wateras well but might leave them out to see if this group is enough.
gotcha ...all benies will aid in root development ,aid in feeding and guard against root pathogens .. I have used hydroguard and mycostop ...you can see why hydroguard does in my high pressure aero grow in my signature ...it promotes thick root growth …. now the mycostop ( first run using it) promotes fine root growth and right now the jury is still out as to if it will affect the ph …. as the first dose I dose it heavy since it was the initial and several days after my ph was going crazy but I am also using an upgraded self designed aeration system that could have been the culpurate as I did know how much or little feed to start with … as the second and third application which was less did not have an affect on my ph but I had also dialed in the feed by this time . So to get my answer I will have to wait to next run and replicate the initial dosage . here is a pic of what mycstop aids , pic is a week after application and week 3 of veg.
IMG_5639.JPG
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
If you put nirvava in their you need to flush your system !!!! its organic and will cause root issues !!! organics in hydroponics = NO NO

100% agree!!

There are fully organic hydro options though. Can do it in autopots with coco and biotabs. Im trying it in about 5 weeks time. Just fill the res with water and there golden:)
You're right though, you definately don't want that stuff in a reservoir.

I use SM-90 in mine which is your opposite.
It kills good bacteria too.
Completely sterile but same benefits as hydroguard due to the additives.
It's a wetting agent,
root booster,
Zero chance of fungal / bacterial problems at the root zone.
Bugs fuckin hate the stuff...it doesnt kill them though, I tried on a wasp!
But I've never had a single pest in any of my hydro or coco plants in 4 years and I've had a few grows elsewhere in that time too. Mostly in untented attics with a good few open vents so it's not like I'm careful about it.
£10 bottle makes 3333.33..litres of perfectly safe res water that can be left for a week at a time without worry.
My profile pic the res rarely went under 25*c. Was 27ish for most of the grow and not a single issue till it hit 31*c.
Hotter is better upto 29 from my experience. It goes a bit fuckin drastic at 31 though. Complete lock out. It's a risky game but it works.

They stopped making my beloved sm90 last year though due to a labelling technicality. I've got 2 reservoirs and 10ml of if left. That's just enough to fix 2 reservoirs of any root rot/gunge type issues.
20190605_182436.jpg

I'm at 25*c most of the time now and I'm shittin it haha. I thought this was a ph issue but I double checked and it was actually a temperature jump so gonna have to crack out the bleach soon lol.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
I have heard of sm90 never used it .. I used 35%h2o2 to clean my system …Instead of bleach you should check out current cultures ucroots its an acid and kills everything at higher doses ...b;each would be the cheaper route but also a delicate one from my understanding .

also when I first started in hydro chillers where unheard off, beneficial bacteria . I think I got lucky because my well water I used was treated with h202 and that's another thing you didn't hear about using ro water which I use now back then . lol
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
I'm not applying soil science to this grow. I'm treating it like a chemistry project,
it still won't work mate because you only know soil chemistry. Hydro chemistry is completely different mate and it really shows that you and the other soil growing dudes that get involved just don't understand it and it causes so many dramas.
Absolutely every single scientific fact that counts for a soil grow is completely irrelevant for us.
That one in my pic was fed sm90 the full grow . It's basically bleach with pesticides and root boosters.
You try feeding that to a soil plant at 60litres a day from 14 days above ground and I doubt you'd last very long. Of it didnt turn your plant to mulch and it somehow miraculously survived it would still kill any and all bacteria that were protecting your roots from rotting due to the lack of oxygen in your soil.

Can just have the roots In nothing but 27*c water if you use the bleach though.
Everything you know says that roots at 27*c being fed bleach should kill plants. To me it says pulling 20oz autos without breaking a sweat.

That's the difference between what you know and what yo think you know.
 

Barney86

Well-Known Member
I have heard of sm90 never used it .. I used 35%h2o2 to clean my system …Instead of bleach you should check out current cultures ucroots its an acid and kills everything at higher doses ...b;each would be the cheaper route but also a delicate one from my understanding .

also when I first started in hydro chillers where unheard off, beneficial bacteria . I think I got lucky because my well water I used was treated with h202 and that's another thing you didn't hear about using ro water which I use now back then . lol
Thankfully I'm in Scotland so tap water is pretty flawless. Ph7.2 at less than 50ppm. I won't have to use the actual bleach though. I've got enough for about 30L of safe res water so can fix 2 problems if I need to.
I'm hoping it doesn't come.to that and they manage to get back on the market.
Wishful thinking but you never know lol
 

LiberalThinker

Well-Known Member
Thankfully I'm in Scotland so tap water is pretty flawless. Ph7.2 at less than 50ppm. I won't have to use the actual bleach though. I've got enough for about 30L of safe res water so can fix 2 problems if I need to.
I'm hoping it doesn't come.to that and they manage to get back on the market.
Wishful thinking but you never know lol
Well Barney, as they say: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I will just have to show you what I learn by my results. But in the meantime I'm just going to enjoy the trip, however it turns out... theres always a next time.
 

No Pain

Well-Known Member
Well Barney, as they say: the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I will just have to show you what I learn by my results. But in the meantime I'm just going to enjoy the trip, however it turns out... theres always a next time.
All we can ever do is give it our best with the knowledge we have at hand and be open to learn along the way . I am constantly looking to make things more efficient and do better than the last grow .
I'm here to help you and anyone else I can in this journey … as at times it can be frustrating as well as rewarding.
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
i like this ph chart. a copy is posted near the grow area.


full



err, it may be this one..


full


it may help the discussion or others who roll thru this thread.

.... or it may not lol
Here is the problem leaving me confused there is your hydro chart . I use the chart you posted , but I went to the gallery and found that one and only one ! I pulled up a lot of charts , but it doesn’t match any of them ! Here’s one of them .
E21A1ED0-B3AF-4BC8-9DAE-2917EF169840.png
 

bluter

Grow Journal of the Month: July 2020
Here is the problem leaving me confused there is your hydro chart . I use the chart you posted , but I went to the gallery and found that one and only one ! I pulled up a lot of charts , but it doesn’t match any of them ! Here’s one of them


i do not understand the issue..

are you looking for the first chart, the second chart, or comparing them with the third ?

the two charts i posted are near identical. the second one can be downloaded right thru the pic link in the post if you want a copy.
 
Last edited:

bluter

Grow Journal of the Month: July 2020
These are the same ? I see nothing the same !


if you are comparing it to the grow weed easy chart it won't be.

the gwe chart is not correct. this was discussed in a few threads.

was under the impression that was common knowledge here.
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
if you are comparing it to the grow weed easy chart it won't be.

the gwe chart is not correct. this was discussed in a few threads.

was under the impression that was common knowledge here.
I haven’t seen it , I wished it would not be passed around very confusing!
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
Found another write up on ph Rising and Falling in grow weed easy . This finishes this discussion for me . Using the ph Perfect nutrients the ph always started low and went high ! I found one other grower that started at 6.1 and let it fall to 5.5 then raise it back again . So it can go either way up or down as long as it goes thru the nutrients from 5.5-6.5 no more or no less for hydro. The majority starts at 5.8 to rise to 6.1 in threads I studied in hydros .
16948614-EC5F-4F07-AAF1-D41B3FBE1B58.jpeg
 

Lowrider72

Well-Known Member
Hey guys interesting read. I think we had same prob years ago.

Im in Coco which is an inert medium and I only circulate a resi with beneficial bacteria etc.
My mates in DWC found too much aeration actually killed the benies in the Resi, while just using a circulation pump kept them alive.
Killing off benies makes ph go nuts.
It was DWC, with bubblers in resi.
A lot of guys ditched their beneficial bacteria etc so they could use H202 for cleaning or correction and because they need to aerate the pots.
Ones who tried benies and heavy aeration always had probs.

This is why I use coco, one pot affects one plant, not all of them and benies love it.
DWC looks hell cool and gives big buds though. Mmmmmmm.....big buds....
 

West Hippie

Grow Journal of the Month: June 2020 - Member of the Month: Oct 2021
Hey guys interesting read. I think we had same prob years ago.

Im in Coco which is an inert medium and I only circulate a resi with beneficial bacteria etc.
My mates in DWC found too much aeration actually killed the benies in the Resi, while just using a circulation pump kept them alive.
Killing off benies makes ph go nuts.
It was DWC, with bubblers in resi.
A lot of guys ditched their beneficial bacteria etc so they could use H202 for cleaning or correction and because they need to aerate the pots.
Ones who tried benies and heavy aeration always had probs.

This is why I use coco, one pot affects one plant, not all of them and benies love it.
DWC looks hell cool and gives big buds though. Mmmmmmm.....big buds....
In my 20 gallon reservoir all I have is a circulation pump ! Had issues with air in the reservoir just as you said ! Took it out and it’s ph problems are gone !My flood and drain trays have the air stones . I’m gonna try dwc again , still haven’t done coco .
 
Top Bottom