Plants with multiple issues

[nijntje]

I'm new to joining this forum but I've been reading along with many of the grows here for the past year or two. I don't generally like to ask for help but I'm truly at a loss as to what to do at this point. I believe my plants are suffering from a number of issues and I'm not really experienced enough to solve them myself. I've already read through the pest pictorial on the forum as well as about 30 other sick plant threads and can't definitively diagnose them as I don't have enough experience with growing plants (these are my first grow) so I thought it might be best to ask some of you more seasoned growers for some advice.

I'm including a buttload of photos because I think that's handier than trying to explain things. Sorry for the crappiness of them ahead of time, they're taken with my phone (the only thing I had handy).

Firstly, a bit about these plants. They are (mostly) NLX clones of about 4-5 weeks I'm guessing. They're with me for almost 2 weeks now, before that they were outside at a friend's place for about 2 weeks with 12 of them planted in 1 pot. When I got them, they were already showing signs of stress from overwatering and also the first two issues I list below. I tried my best to separate them and transplant them into new pots without much damage but they're currently very stressed (fan stems are completely purple on a few of them) and they don't appear to be growing right now. They're currently living in a fresh batch of Atami soil with nothing added to it and still vegging under 2 Secret Jardin T-neon armatures with two 75w bulbs in them. (I'd like to get a third but I'm holding off on that right now until these things are looking better) I'd like to send them to flower soon before they get any larger but I need to fix these issues first. I don't want my problems getting bigger, you know what I mean? ;D

Small overview of what my grow is looking like atm.

Problem #1 the white mystery fuzz/film.
This film on a lot of the lower fan leaves. In the beginning, I pulled a bunch of the worst leaves off with this problem, hoping it might help keep whatever it is from spreading but I don't know that it helped. At first i thought it might be mold but from what I've read, mold should wipe off. This won't wipe off at all and sometimes appears slightly hairy, and at others it seems like it's silky or slimy in appearance but I can't feel any difference between the two. I thought it could also maybe be spider mites... but then when I saw the bugs on my plant I wasn't completely sure since I don't see any actual webbing and the color of them is more yellowish... they look more like aphids perhaps? I'll add photos of them down below.

The mystery fuzz

The mystery film

Problem #2 The bug problem.
Not sure what these little suckers are but they seem to embed themselves inside the leaf itself at times and at others they just seem to lay on the back surface. They're quite lazy which I found weird... no movement that I could see with the naked eye.... maybe they're stoned? haha (just kidding) I don't see much on them, just feet but I don't have a microscope to look closer. I should probably invest in one soon, perhaps along with my third light.
(they're super small so I had a hard time capturing them, sorry)

Problem #3 Yellowing leaves
A lot of my leaves are yellowing suddenly, some are curling and some look a bit deformed. I noticed the curling last week and the discoloring mostly yesterday after I watered... I've only watered them twice since transplant 4 days ago, 1 liter between them all after transplant and one liter the day after. The ph of the water I'm using is 7.8, I used .25ml of start booster to help new roots form after they were ripped apart from each other. I have only given the plants only 2 liters of water between them all, because after first watering (1L) the soil still appeared wet and acted like it didn't want to take more but it hasnt leaked out the bottom at all so maybe I haven't given them enough. Not sure if I should give them more or not but now that they're turning yellow, I'm quite afraid to give them anything until I know what is going wrong.

The soil PH reads 6.2 in case anyone was wondering, maybe my soil ph is too low or maybe my meter is a piece of crap... not really sure. Seems as though the PH of the water would raise my soil PH but it hasn't so I really have no idea. It's new soil so I'm not sure if it's always that low when you buy it.

I was hoping my first grow wouldn't come with so many problems but I like to think of it as a learning experience. If someone out there could give me a bit of information about these issues and how to fix them or at least point me in the right direction, I'd really appreciate it!

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Good day,

The white fuzz on your lower leafs is for sure is powdery mildew, this is caused by high humidity & poor air circulation which can be rememdyed by an inline fan drawing new air through tent and a 6 inch clip on fan to circulate air around canopy.

The bug problem is aphids with out a 2nd thought on the matter... an old school vegetable grower control was spraying spray plants with a washing up liquid solution to kill em off, you can also get insecticides for this, other organic methods are like contrated garlic juice in a spray bottle etc... aphids hate garlic as do vampires

As for the speckled leaf problem not sure off that at the present moment may be short lived as for the brown blotch problem on leafs, might be a calcium thing ?

I do suspect their is a certain amount of transplant shock from one enviroment to the other along with a tad of over watering.

Just allow plant pots to dry out before watering again & water every few days or more, you can dip your finger into soil/compost mix to test moisture content of growing medium or get a feel for weight of pot whilst wet/dry as when to known to water.

The 2nd to last pic shows signs of insect damage of some kind of slight nutrient defeciency in an early stage this can be soon correct by feeding the plant.

 

[Icemud]

For the powdery mildew do as Fuzzy Duck stated, you can also make a mix that so far has been pretty effective in my garden against PM..

1 L water in spray bottle
mix up 1:10 ratio of no fat milk (has to be no fat) and water
add a 1/2 spoonful of cinnamon
1/2 spoonful of garlic powder (not garlic salt, just powder)
10ml of neem oil

Before spraying this, remove all leaves covered with the white powder, wipe down all of your walls and surfaces in your grow area with a lysol/water or bleach/water solution to help kill spores... Then spray your plants very thourough with the mixture above...(make sure lights are dimmed or raised high if using HID lights until this mix dries). Follow up 3-4 days later with another spray of this mixture and see if the PM is still around.. It doesn't kill the PM forever, but keeps it at bay for quite a while... along with defoliation and better airflow like FD mentioned, this should help ya out...

For stronger foliar sprays check out our sponsor SNS


ps....neem and garlic repel a lot of pesties as well, not just PM.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Icemud is pretty cool chap on matters of organic methods for dealing with pest/problems and even defeciencys & certianly gets Fuzzys on the matter at hand.

The old washing up liquid mix is an old fashion aproach for aphids from decades ago, something what ol granny would use on her rose's and is still used to this day... even tho industrail stuff may be used under different brand names these day for use big time horticultarulist etc


Garlic juice & neem oil are pretty top stuff for dealing with aphids also improves plant vigour

 

[nijntje]

Wow, thanks guys! Your reply has put some hope in me about this grow being savable

My room generally stays around 26/28C with 40-50% humidity. I have 1 intake and 1 outtake fan plus a small clipfan inside the tent (it was behind the flap so it wasn't visible). The mold was definitely there before I got the plants because I saw it and thought that it looked a bit strange when he handed them to me. But a few days ago we suddenly got a VERY hot humid day and while I was away for some hours, the tent rose to 70% humidity and 29C, that must have been when the mold started to accelerate because I suddenly had it on more leaves than I did to begin with. However, I didn't know if I should treat it as such because it also looked like what some people described as spider mites. I was afraid that lowering the humidity to get rid of the mold issue might accelerate the mite issue (which I've read thrives in low humidity). So I'm quite relieved to find out that won't be an issue.

So this mixture might actually get rid of both problems at once then? (since aphids hate garlic) If so, that's rather handy!
I watered them again today but they were quite dry. I probably won't water them again for another 3 or 4 days, this time I was sure to give them enough water that I didn't have to worry that they didn't have enough. About 1L per plant instead of 1L between them all.
I didn't put any nutes or root stimulator in this time, the new soil I added has a bunch of nutes (about enough for 4-6 weeks I believe) so I figured it was better to go with straight water than to over nute them and make things worse. Last thing I need right now is a nute burn, believe me. haha ;D
I'll try to pick up some neem oil this weekend and try that mix (thanks so much for the recipe!)... I'll post an update to let you know how that works out. If I'm lucky, they won't turn hermie from all the abuse haha

 

[nijntje]

Okay so I've looked literally everywhere and apparently it's not allowed to sell neem oil in Holland. I find this a bit weird but no one has it and one place even got angry when i asked for it. :x Is it possible to substitute something else in it's place or even just use the recipe without it at all?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

I'll see if i can think of something else ?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Right back again

First port of call - Products | Sierra Natural Science a forum sponsor with a highly recommended product loved by all & often a prize in POTM, NOFM & MOFM contests.

Something from the royal horticultarul society here in the UK.

Chemical control

Because most of the growth of powdery mildews is found on the plant surface they are easily targeted with fungicides. Myclobutanil (Bayer Garden Systhane and various other products) can be used on ornamentals, apples, pears, gooseberries and blackcurrants. Difenoconazole (Westland Plant Rescue Control concentrate) can be used on ornamentals, pome fruits and grape vine. Difenoconazole (Westland Plant Rescue Control ready-to-use-spray), tebuconazole (Bayer Garden Multirose Concentrate 2) and triticonazole (Scotts Fungus Clear Ultra) can be used on ornamentals. The formulation of tebuconazole (Bayer Garden Multirose Concentrate 2) contains deltamethrin and some formulations of triticonazole (Scotts Roseclear Ultra and Scotts Roseclear Ultra Gun) contain acetamiprid to control insect pests. Avoid these unless an insect pest problem is specifically identified. Use plant and fish oil blends (Vitax Organic 2 in 1) on all plants.

PDF file by RHS - https://www.rhs.org.uk/media/pdfs/advice/fungicides





Powdery mildew

Baking soda, sulphur or milk! The finest weapons in the fight against powdery mildew.

Powdery mildew on leaves Powdery mildew is a fungal disease that is particularly prevalent in summer and autumn when the weather is warm and dry (or in very mild winters). Plants in conservatories and greenhouses, however, can be infected all year round.

Infected plants are covered in a greyish-white mould, typically on upper leaf surfaces and young shoots.
Powdery mildews affect a number of plants: many vegetables (beans, cucumbers, courgettes, pumpkins, etc), fruit crop (such as apples, grapes and quinces), sweet peas, violas/pansies, dahlias, roses, hydrangeas and African violets, to name a few.
There are many species of powdery mildew and most are host specific. For example, the one on roses will not affect cucumbers, or the one on peas will not affect grapes.
You may have seen those pretty black and yellow ladybirds around, particularly if you've got powdery mildew. These ladybirds are the only species in NZ that are not predatory — they don't feed on aphids. What they do feed on is fungi. But if you think these beetles will help control powdery mildew, think again. They actually carry spores of the disease under their wings from plant to plant.

CONTROL

The important thing to remember here is that powdery mildew does not like wet conditions — it's at its worst when the weather's dry. The fact that it doesn't like water on leaves when it's developing means there are a number of methods of controlling it that do not involve fungicide chemicals. Anything that has a detergent type of action, or surfactants, things that will wet the leaves, are very effective at reducing the severity of powdery mildew.

That's why you hear people talking about using old dishwater. Anything with a detergent in it will actually suppress powdery mildew development.

Baking soda
One particular method that works well, particularly for rose mildew, is baking soda. Mix up a solution of baking soda and water and spray onto the infected plant. About half a teaspoon of baking soda to one litre of water. Too much baking soda will burn the leaves.

Sulphur spray
A sulphur spray is also effective against powdery mildew. Spray fortnightly, beginning as soon as the very first sign of powdery mildew appears, or even earlier if you know that the particular plant gets powdery mildew every year.

Milk spray
Or you could head for the refrigerator and try a milk spray! A weekly spray of skim milk (1 part milk, 9 parts water — the low-fat content means there is less chance of odour) will reduce the severity of powdery mildew by up to 90%. You see, milk is believed to be a natural germicide; it contains a certain amount of salts and amino acids which powdery mildew is sensitive to, and also acts as a foliar fertiliser, boosting the plant's immune system. A word of warning, though. If the milk concentration is above 30% (that is, 3 parts milk), a very different fungus (albeit harmless) may begin to grow on your plants.




A recipe for a home remedy to get rid of aphids

1 cup vegetable or white mineral oil
2 cups water
2 teaspoons dish soap (without bleach) or Murphy’s soap

Spray this homemade aphid control mixture on the aphids every few days until the aphids recede. This home remedy to get rid of aphids will suffocate the aphids. Make sure that plants that are treated with this solution are keptout of direct sunlight as the oil may magnify the sunlight and burn the plants.



Aphids are pesky little critters who usually top a gardener's list of "most hated" insect pests. The tiny pearly green or milky white insects are almost impossible to avoid. They love just about all vegetables and ornamentals. Apple trees, roses and beans are especially susceptible to aphid attack, and symptoms of aphid infestation include curled leaves, deformed fruit and honeydew secretions on the plant. Fortunately, aphids can be controlled well with several cultural practices, and chemical controls are seldom necessary.

Identifying Aphids
Once aphids are noticed, act quickly. They don't waste any time multiplying. If left unchecked, they can suck nutrients from plants and spread deadly plant viruses such as mosaic virus.

Natural Solutions
First, spray the plant with a stream of water to wash the aphids off. Then allow the plant to dry and begin a treatment. A very effective control for aphids is a simple soap spray. Mix 4 ounces (about 3 tablespoons) dishwashing liquid to one gallon of water. Spray the plant, being sure to get under the leaves as well as on the leaf surfaces. The soap spray fades away quickly, so you will need to repeat spraying often.

Soap sprays usually result in aphid death in about an hour. After an hour, you can wash the plant with pure water if desired. Washing with water is most desirable with melons, cucumbers and African violets, which can suffer leaf burn if the soap spray stays on too long.

Got too many hot peppers coming in? Hot pepper sprays are also an effective aphid control. Garlic also works. An easy anti-aphid cocktail combines 3 to 4 hot peppers, a few cloves of garlic and 1 quart of water. Mix it all in the blender, then spray on plants.

Another good cultural practice for aphid control is interplanting your ornamentals with basil. Aphids are repelled by the smell of the basil. Also, plant angelica and morning glory to attract ladybugs, a natural predator of aphids. Ladybugs can be purchased in some garden supply stores or through organic gardening retailers. Start with about 100 ladybugs per 1,000 square feet of garden space. Release them in the evening so they can have dew to drink.

The first defense against aphids is to maintain your own presence in the garden. Check daily for signs of their moving in. Aphids are tiny with pear-shaped bodies and two antennae from their forehead. Often, they are accompanied by ants, which like to feed on the honeydew that aphids secrete. You may notice the ants before you notice the aphids. Look under the leaves especially.


Garlic GP Ornamental

Garlic GP Ornamental Fungicide A natural product that is chemical-free and good for the environment, Garlic GP Ornamental controls white powdery mildew, rust and downey mildew. For use on all ornamentals - both inside and outdoor - Garlic GP Ornamental will not harm people, pets, birds, wildlife or beneficial insects. The application becomes odorless within hours, and lasts for up to an impressive 21 days!

Safe for use on all varieties of ornamentals, including: Green shrubs, blooming shrubs, trees, ferns, conifers, tropicals, succulents, palms, bedding plants, vining plants.

Applications:

Ready to use: Shake well before using. Spray all plant surfaces until completely covered. Apply every 7-10 days.



Just food for thought, hope it helps

 

[nijntje]

Thank you!! you have been tremendously helpful. I'm going to try this out right away.

 

[Icemud]

Instead of neem oil, check out some organic soaps like Dr. Bonners, Bronners? look for ones with peppermint extract, rosemary extract or other known botanicals that repel pests. This soap is highly recommended by many growers, and he also supports hemp growing legalization..

I use another brand of organic soap called Dr. Woods and it has rosemary and also other extracts that seems to work as a good sticker/spreader for the leaves.

ps...be careful when using baking soda, it does burn the leaves quite a bit if you use too much so be light with the baking soda..a little goes a long way...

another very well known cure for PM is potassium bicarbonate

 

[Smokemupm8]

Hey mate, well firstly, sorry to see you have a few bug probs and PM.. Listen to Fuzz and Ice, as they are both great when it comes to things like this.. Just about every post that ive read of theirs has been a pretty accurate diagnosis and resolution for certain probs or good growing methods. So you should be on track following these guys advice..Hope they recover for ya buddy Goodluk andHappy Harvesting

 

[TNB Naturals]

Hello friend because you have been outside to inside they have been attacked by outside insects and such, and are also use to sunllight. That alone can be a slow transistion for plants. have you ever tried introducing ladybugs to your plants? as well as start with a soft light then hit medilhilide for grow. Cheers friend hope this helps