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Possible side affect using CCO on Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma?

BwoodCG

New Member
First off, I'd like to thank everyone on this forum for all of the great information.

My wife was just recently diagnosed with low-grade follicular lymphoma (type of non-Hodgkins) and has been taking concentrated cannabis oil for about 6 weeks. She's just about under a gram a day now (thanks to the correct dosing tutorial on this forum). Fortunately she doesn't require chemo at this time due to the low grade diagnosis. It's kind of a "wait and see" approach (quoted from two separate oncologists). My wife will go in for another PET scan at the end of June, which gives us plenty of time to use the oil.

The only drawback with the oil now is it seems to cause my wife's kidney stones to flare up. In fact the other day we spent the entire night in the ER due to the severe pain. She noticed the pain began to increase right after dosing. Does anyone know if this could be a side affect with the oil? My wife is very frustrated because she feels the oil is actually working but she has to stop taking it because of the serious pain with her kidney stones (she's been drinking a lot of water). By the way, she's had kidney stones almost her entire life. Ironically the cancer was originally discovered during an ultrasound taken for her kidney and gall stones. At this point it almost seems like "pick your poison".
 

BwoodCG

New Member
I'm not sure if it's a coincidence. Ever since my wife upped her dosage, she's been getting the pain right after taking the oil. I'm just wondering if the THC is naturally drying out the area where these stones must travel to escape the body (into the bladder). I guess using the 'cotton-mouth' analogy.
 

Antics

420 Member
Well we do know that ingestion of Cannabis does inhibit saliva production, also known as cotton mouth. And it isn't caused just by smoking, I've read that any form of ingestion can cause it.

Now I have found that the kidneys do produce hormones, Calcitriol, and Erythropoietin; as well as the enzyme Renin.

Calcitriol is responsible for increasing the uptake of calcium from the gut into the blood, and the kidneys do filter blood.
Pure speculation: The oil could cause an increase in Calcitriol, thus increasing calcium levels?

Erythropoietin controls red blood cell production, and I don't believe would have an effect on kidney stones.

And Renin basically deals with regulating the body's arterial blood pressure.

Unfortunately, some effects of Cannabis and treatment are in their infancy. As we learn more, we can help more.

My suggestion would be if the pain continues, to increase water intake as much as possible, and try a few herbal remedies for kidney stones and see if something helps reduce the existing levels of minerals and stones, so when she takes those higher oil doses, her kidneys can handle it easier.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Hi BwoodCG,

How much did the wife up her dosage compared to her last amount? Also could you tell me what strain of MJ she used for her concentrate and do you know what solvent was used to make the oil? Perhaps when making the concentrate it soaked to long in the solvent and pulled an excessive amount of chlorophyll and when your wife increased her dose it is irritating the stomach. How many times she dose per day? Also any man made meds being used? Kidney stones can cause severe pain when shrinking in size also. If it continues (could be a stomach flu/food poisoning) cut back the dose to where it was. I do not think its the concentrated oil related. Could be cycle related also? A high CBD strain would take care of her pain and inflammation. Most definitely cut back the dosage and see if she feels better. I know quite a few people using the concentrate correctly and never had this issue with the concentrated oil.

Your Wife could be passing a kidney stone causing severe pain that won't go away. Very small stones might pass through the urinary tract without causing much pain. Larger stones can get stuck and block the flow of urine. Kidney stones do not usually cause symptoms until they start to pass. This is what I think the culprit is and has nothing to do with the concentrate. As Antics has mentioned, keep hydrated. Six weeks in using the concentrate could have start curbing her appetite (sativa dominate) and not paying attention to hydration/eating properly. CBD strain would help/eliminate the pain.

Glad to hear your wife was taking the oil correctly. 6 weeks in, bet she was feeling a lot healthier in quite some time. Also a worthy mention, your wife may not need up to a full gram per day (not stage 3-4). Also by the time you go in for the PET scan it could be completely gone. If not and opting for chemo the heal process will take 2 as long from the damage left behind by the chemo. Does the Dr. know your wife is taking cannabis concentrated oil? Normally I would not mention not using chemo as that is the persons decision. In your wife's case already using the concentrate for 6 weeks and another 4 weeks to go before the PET scan she would only have 2-4 weeks left for the concentrate to complete its job. Of course a 30 day PM/preventive maintenance ( a grain of rice for 30 days) follow up. Just an opinion.
 

BwoodCG

New Member
Thank you Antics and Motoco for your responses.

Motoco - I purchased the RSO at a very reputable dispensary in San Jose. Apparently they carry only the best organic medical cannabis available and are also one of the few collectives in the state to receive full accreditation status by the California Medical Marijuana Association(CMMA), considered the industry’s gold standard.

With that said, I'm awaiting a call back from the dispensary on the exact strain and what they use as a solvent. I'm almost certain it's an Indica strain using Everclear. The THC % is 92.44 while the CBD % is 25.71.

My wife is going to decrease her dosage size and remember to drink plenty of water and cranberry juice (which seems to be effective) going forward.

One last thing to note, when the Dr. reviewed the CT scan with my wife last week, the report showed the one kidney stone about to pass and three more within her left kidney. It also noted the gall stones, which we knew about. What I found strange is that there was no mention of the 3-4 cm mass/tumor that has showed up on every ultrasound/CT/PET scan since this whole diagnosis. Could the tumor have shrunk (by using CCO the past 5-6 weeks), or would an emergency CT report not mention this?
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Nice on the concentrate! Sounds like that is not the issue. TY for the info.

Great stats on the %'s. Just making sure it wasn't snake oil or the issue with the stomach pain.

The pain was definitely the kidney stone. Knowing that, decrease the amount of dosage, but not by much. I would think it would help immensely with the pain? I think the pain would of been a lot worse without the oil. An emergency CT report should of shown the tumor unless its so small/gone or maybe they just wasn't looking for it. Knowing her history I would think they would of. And yes, with low grade cancer it could be gone completely. Just make sure and keep her regimen up. Also before each dose in between meals your wife should eat a good snack, like a fruit cup and hydrate. Even a cracker with a cold cut/light cheese as this will line her stomach and help absorb any excessive chlorophyll that may drain down to the stomach. If the concentrate is Indica dominant she should have an appetite. I'm thinking in 4 weeks your wife should be good to go. The scan will tell. I'm impressed your wife has built up to that amount with no issues besides the stones. Tell her she will keep feeling better and better and really a great job you guys are doing! It is very refreshing when folks get it right and follow instructions. :goodjob:

ps if your wife feels too tired throughout the day you could get some sativa concentrate, feel more active with a wellness feeling up until 2 p.m. then switch back to Indica for the evening.

Thank you Antics and Motoco for your responses.

Motoco - I purchased the RSO at a very reputable dispensary in San Jose. Apparently they carry only the best organic medical cannabis available and are also one of the few collectives in the state to receive full accreditation status by the California Medical Marijuana Association(CMMA), considered the industry’s gold standard.

With that said, I'm awaiting a call back from the dispensary on the exact strain and what they use as a solvent. I'm almost certain it's an Indica strain using Everclear. The THC % is 92.44 while the CBD % is 25.71.

My wife is going to decrease her dosage size and remember to drink plenty of water and cranberry juice (which seems to be effective) going forward.

One last thing to note, when the Dr. reviewed the CT scan with my wife last week, the report showed the one kidney stone about to pass and three more within her left kidney. It also noted the gall stones, which we knew about. What I found strange is that there was no mention of the 3-4 cm mass/tumor that has showed up on every ultrasound/CT/PET scan since this whole diagnosis. Could the tumor have shrunk (by using CCO the past 5-6 weeks), or would an emergency CT report not mention this?
 

budnoob2

New Member
Another option to help with the kidney stones is mixing equal parts olive oil and lemon juice - I typically juice 2 lemons and then measure and add equal amount of olive oil. Drink up and have a water chaser. Doing this a few times a day for up to 3 days or so usually gets the job done. This will speed up the passing process but not help with the pain so the canna oil should be used help out with the pain. :peace:
 

BwoodCG

New Member
budnoob2 - thank you for the tip.

I wanted to give a quick update on my wife's condition. She had her PET scan results last week. One of the larger tumors (about an inch in diameter) had shrunk about 15%, which was great news. However, the smaller tumor underneath had slightly grown and had taken on a different shape, which was very strange and even had our Oncologist confused. My wife told him she had been using CO for the past 3 months. His response, keep on doing what you're doing. It seems to be working. He went on to say that cannabis can do no harm and that there has been a lot of research on the benefits of using cannabis oil. As you can imagine, my wife and I are excited that he is on board.

My wife has only been able to finish about 12 grams out of the recommended 60 over the past 3 months. Now that we've seen the positive results from such a low dosage, she is trying very hard to work her way up to the gram/day protocol. She's been using the 'tacking' method but even this seems to be too much. We actually started doing suppositories over the weekend with some success. We also purchased some Citicoline which is supposed to help with the "high".

Has anyone had any success using suppositories? Is this a recommended way to administer the CO?

One last question in terms of the smaller tumor increasing in size. I've heard that tumors can actually grow and change shape before they die. I'm wondering if this could be the case here. Why would one tumor shrink while the smaller one slightly grow?
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Hi BwoodCG,

Thank you for your update. Sounds like good news and some is confusing. Your wife is on an extremely low dosage for a ninety day period.
Could you elaborate better why she is having such a hard time to up her dosage? If you mean she has a hard time building up her dosage using the tacking method then the application is not done correctly. Can you tell me how much she is dosing now and how many times so I can review would be appreciated. It sounds like she is digesting only if there is any euphoria (more draining down than tacking properly). I can answer your other questions but need this info before moving forward. With proper application there should be absolutely no 'high'. TY
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Bwood,

I just reviewed your previous post and see the issue. Its an Indica strain. So even if she is dosing correctly its not the euphoria, its the couch lock feeling. There is a fine line between feeling euphoria and the 'down/relaxed' feeling. This is why I only use Indica for sleep. Indica during the day does not give you the wellness/attitude you need while healing. This is why she is having such a hard time taking more. I just made a new batch of Indica for sleep. Very low THC but very high 'couch lock' feeling. Low grade HL should've been gone already. You need an extract from a sativa strain and then it will take a few days to adjust from the couch lock feeling. Healing is much more effective this way no matter what intel says differently. Couch lock all the time for me brings on depression and does not give the positive healing effect as with sativa. Attitude and a positive mind set works wonders. Imagine trying to feel better if your taking sleeping meds all the time. I know where you or the dispensary got the intel from to use Indica/Indica dominate strain. Once I have your other info we can get a strategy in place that is absolutely correct and have this cancer gone asap. There is no reason for a suppository as we can come up with alternative dosing procedure to make this as easy as possible. You will only need about 8 grams of sativa for now.
 

BwoodCG

New Member
Thank you Motoco. For the past few weeks, my wife has been taking around .5 grams/day. She does one dose (1/4) in the late afternoon and another (1/4) around 9pm. It's not necessarily the "high", but more the sleepy/cloudiness feel (due to the indica strain). She feels she's doing the tacking correctly, especially after reading thru your tutorials many times. She is finally back at work again which makes it very difficult to dose during the day. We spent the day on Saturday calling and driving around to multiple dispensaries to see if anyone sold CO in a sativa strain....no luck.

BTW....the oil is 77% THC, 19% CBD
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Thank you Brother!

My wife a week ago was getting ready for work and I got a text; which container did you say the daytime was in? She dosed from the wrong one and went to work. No matter how hard she tried to work, she couldn't focus. I had to take her daytime sativa. It is not really funny, but when I walked into her office I thought she head slammed on her keyboard, she was asleep, lol. With sativa she should be able to go to work, drive, everything you normally would do. Clear headed and alert. I'm sending you a PM so this can be resolved quickly.

ps. you won't be able answer until 50 post. TY
 

BwoodCG

New Member
Thanks again Motoco!!

Yeah, its very frustrating because we know the oil is working, it's just been so hard to get to that gram/day.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
Soon it will be very easy and to be honest you won't need a gram a day for non-HL. Your wife will be feeling better than before while she is healing while at work. Total wrong regimen Bwood. Little amounts more times a day is the key, it will be easy even at work with just a couple of potty calls. She will be in heaven compared to the daytime couch lock, lol. You will see a new person in a few days while the indica can become balanced and taken at nighttime only.

Great news about your Dr.'s viewpoint. I'm meeting one soon to participate healing a stage 1V prostate cancer. And a scientist with ties to UCLA (he is sick with an unknown/missed diagnosed stomach issue). So I totally understand your excitement. About time! lol
 

budnoob2

New Member
Hi Bwood, we experienced the same exact problems as your wife minus the kidney stones part until we found Motoco's information on this site - rest assured better days are ahead if you follow his protocol :) :peace:
 

BwoodCG

New Member
Motoco - thank you for the PM!

Will taking like a Sour Diesel Honey Oil (sativa) or the like during the day still aid in killing cancer even though it's very low in CBD? Sorry for all of the questions. I just want to make sure I get my wife on the right regimen without her feeling so tired.
 

budnoob2

New Member
Contrary to the interwebs, high THC is what you want to kill the cancer my friend. You want high potency strains averaging around 25% THC to kill cancer. The high CBD strains work for pain and inflammation and the closer to pure Indica you can get the better it is for appetite increase and sleep.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
BwoodCG,

That is why the PM to make sure she gets going in the right direction. Sour Diesel is a great sativa day time med. Believe it or not even 2 % cbd can manage pain. Also she will have plenty of CBD at night. Also at night the dose will only be about a grain of rice, no more couch lock during the day. You will be rock'n and roll'n in a couple of days. Do the 's' its all good.

Motoco - thank you for the PM!

Will taking like a Sour Diesel Honey Oil (sativa) or the like during the day still aid in killing cancer even though it's very low in CBD? Sorry for all of the questions. I just want to make sure I get my wife on the right regimen without her feeling so tired.
 

420 Motoco

Member of the Month: October 2014 - Member of the Year: 2014
In the a.m. I'll make a new wellness regimen. Ask any question you need to. Starting with the correct strains is of utmost importance. Especially when working. I couldn't imagine working on Indica and couldn't imagine that feeling even if I didn't work during the day (leads to depression for me). We will get it right. Always when in doubt, ring the door bell.

Motoco - thank you for the PM!

Will taking like a Sour Diesel Honey Oil (sativa) or the like during the day still aid in killing cancer even though it's very low in CBD? Sorry for all of the questions. I just want to make sure I get my wife on the right regimen without her feeling so tired.
 
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