Pruning vs Defoliation: Drawing a line

[Greenlizard]

Okay first things first... Let's say it together... "Oh no... not another defoliation thread" LOL.
Now with that out of the way I have been searching this forum and the vast reaches of the internet but very little difference is made between Pruning & Defoliation. I find this misleading, and just plain sloppy lol.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is a line in the sand between the two.

Pruning: The cutting, and removal of a stem. Now let's not slide "topping", and "cloning" into this. Let's leave "topping", and "cloning" to their own titles.

Defoliation: The cutting, and removal of fan leaves. Now let's not slide "trimming" into this. "Trimming is for harvest".

My reasons for this post are:
A: Try to promote a more clear understanding between the two terms for newer growers.
B: Trying to find the answer I seek regarding pruning.

So... I am currently vegging on my third grow. I use a 4x4 tent with 4 plants. I have two 315 Watt CMH fixtures. Currently vegging. On my first grow I used only one 315 fixture, and a SCROG. Worked well but I had lot's of larf, and popcorn buds down under. I did a couple heavy defoliations on this grow.
On my second grow I did not SCROG. I super cropped and kept a nice even canopy without the SCROG. Once in flower I then added the second 315 watt CMH fixture. I didn't defoliate this time other than a few plucks, and tucks. I found I ended up with more weight but still had lots of larf, and popcorn buds beneath the canopy.
Each grow I am continuing to try to improve. I have come to find out that my issue with popcorn buds, and larf is due to the density of my tops. I have too many tops. Once in flower my plants become dense and each bud is close together. Not to the point of bud rot, but to the point that no matter the light source the light just can't get down past the first 6" of tops. Even defoliation wouldn't help much and I don't like to defoliate much anymore anyways.
This current grow I have super cropped, and now I am LST just to keep things even and spread out.
So here is what I see... I need to "Prune" in veg in order to space my tops better. I have cut out many of the center nodes of my plants as well as many that were close together going up the main stems. Hopefully this aids in my attempt to grow larger more spaced buds with little to no larf, and popcorn buds.
Why is information so hard to come by regarding "pruning" and spacing of bud sites? When I search I just end up with "defoliation" information.

Anyone care to throw in their two cents?

 

[Carcass]

I agree with you-too many tops is not necessarily a good thing-especially if the plant can't "spread out" naturally to allow more light to penetrate the canopy-I've got that going on right now with one of my plants-
@Old Salt trains his plants to have 8 tops each,which is a great way to do it-I'm sure,even with fewer colas,the yield is better than a plant with 20 colas that can't get very big because only the top leaves get any "good" light to them.
My next grow,I'm going to prune early to have fewer tops,since my plants are pretty confined in their space.
With fewer branches,defoliation will also be easier,fewer branches means fewer leaves to have to thin out.

 

[Old Salt]

I prune and train my plants so the colas are on 6" (15cm) centers. With a 300W not-the-best of lights, I was pulling almost 8oz from a 2' X 4' tent. I expect that to go up, as I've built a new COB based light, and my wife won Mars Hydro's TSL-2000.

I'm not stuck on that 8 colas per plant. I am continuing with the 6" (15cm) spacing, as it allows the light to penetrate into the canopy.

 

[Althegardener2]

Along those lines, taking a branch to root and grow out is 'taking a slip', NOT cloning! This misuse of that word drives me crazy. You can take a cutting or slip and root them, or you can air-layer and get new slip. Yes the slip is now a duplicate of the original plant but it is not technically a 'clone', unless it came out of a petri dish. On the trimming issue, if you take too many fan leaves the plant isn't gathering enough energy to grow to its potential, as the flowers themselves aren't photosynthesizing, the parts containing chlorophyll are doing that. I've seen a few plants folks have pruned back far too early and then they wonder why their harvest wasn't all it could be despite having so many bud sites. And I made the mistake of pruning an Amnesia/sativa dominant strain at the wrong stage myself. Lessons learned.

 

[Althegardener2]

On another forum there is a fantastic thread by a grower who delves deep into the issue of topping and defoliating, not sure if i can give you the link here or not, but it is regarding autos. He does an amazing job. They top or fim at the fourth or fifth node and then spread them out and tie them back to keep the light in and their harvests are pretty awesome.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I usually do between 24 to up to 36 colas PER PLANT to fill a 3'x5' space.
Mine seem to fill out very nicely all the way down to within a couple inches of SCROG level.
I very lightly defoliate only a few leaves, I mostly try to tuck or reposition buds to get a couple inches or so of light around them.
If you have multiple light sources with lots of cross over you should get reasonable penetration even with cheap Blurple lights.

I average over 8oz dried and cured bud per plant.
I've never topped a plant, only LST and SCROG

 

[flashmp3]

Very interesting thread! I have experienced quiet the same. This grow I decided not to top and just LST to avoid having too many bud sites. I also avoided defo during veg cause giving smaller bud sites to get more lights also means to create bushier plant. But because of some pH mistakes I had to do some defo during beginning of flowering to remove the bad leaves after the plant started recovering. This gave more lights to more bud sites and I m ending again with too many bud sites I guess. Anyway all that to say that you thread is very interesting too me

 

[Old Salt]

I usually do between 24 to up to 36 colas PER PLANT to fill a 3'x5' space.
Mine seem to fill out very nicely all the way down to within a couple inches of SCROG level.
I very lightly defoliate only a few leaves, I mostly try to tuck or reposition buds to get a couple inches or so of light around them.
If you have multiple light sources with lots of cross over you should get reasonable penetration even with cheap Blurple lights.

I average over 8oz dried and cured bud per plant.
I've never topped a plant, only LST and SCROG

How many plants in that space?

 

[Nunyabiz]

How many plants in that space?

Always just two

 

[Old Salt]

That puts you at 30-45sq in (193cm^2 - 290cm^2) per cola. I guesstimated 36 sq in per cola for my first grow, so I was in the ballpark.

 

[No Pain]

I agree that you want to spread your colas out not just for penetration but for airflow and environmental reasons . I can understand the popcorn and larf lower down and looking to change that . One method would be doing a scrogg spacing out your colas and pruning branches that are going to interfere with the light penetration and spacing you are looking for and then pruning and trimming everything below the scrog… the biggest consideration that needs to take place is the depth that the light looses its intensity and ability to provide good flower structure . When you do the pruning for your cola spacing and the pruning and trimming "lollipopping" of everything under the scrog ...the plant will focus all of its energy to the colas that you have spaced out and they will be bigger . That is the method along with genetics that aided me in getting 2 liter bottle size colas that you see in my pic.
If your light only has the ability to produce good flower formation at the first 18 inches of a plant it doesn't do you any good to focus on 24 inches of plant .

Another thing that must be taken into consideration when pruning your branches is the plant genetics ...if it is one with short internode spacing you will be fine ….if it has long internode spacing pruning those branches could have a negative impact .

hope you found the info helpful .

 

[Greenlizard]

Great input so far. Thank you. Interesting to see that the pruning of nodes is sort of the secret method to obtain large colas that nobody seems to directly talk about. It's usually always defoliation everyone talks about but nobody speaks of shaping the plant via pruning nodes and thinning them out. When comparing my photos to other peoples I have been wondering how they get such defined colas with so much space between them. Well now we know.

 

[flashmp3]

Great input so far. Thank you. Interesting to see that the pruning of nodes is sort of the secret method to obtain large colas that nobody seems to directly talk about. It's usually always defoliation everyone talks about but nobody speaks of shaping the plant via pruning nodes and thinning them out. When comparing my photos to other peoples I have been wondering how they get such defined colas with so much space between them. Well now we know.

Haha for real!