Purple Kush clone flowering early -need advice

[Debudman]

Hello folks,

This is my first grow and decided to plant (3) clones.
The first 2 seemed to take off a bit slower which I guess is a good thing cause they now seem to be vegging nicely and just starting to take off.
I live in California South Bay and planted on April 20th.. After that the weather was good for a couple weeks and then turned ugly with overcast, clouds and rain for the most part. Now I am hoping this has ended and the weather states that summer should be apon us and the weather should now start getting nice.

Now with my question...
2 clones vegging and doing fine.
My 3rd (Purple Kush) has started flowering. I first noticed white hairs about a month ago or so and just let the plant ride.. The buds now seem to be getting much more dense and notice no new growth. Today was 80 degrees with little overcast and the rest of the week shows partly cloudy in the 70's.
I am hoping that the plant will turnaround and start vegging again, but not sure what to do. Some say I can drop a garbage can on it at 7pm and remove at 7pm to assure flowering. This is kind of a pain in the ass though and I understand it would have to be done vigilantly for like 2 weeks at least. I really don't want to have to do that if possible, but wanted to get the advise of the experts here.. I think my other 2 will be fine and hit the season just right.

Help please..
Here are the pics to give you a better idea
(Since this is my first time posting and if you can't see them you can look in my gallery)

 

[Captain Kronic]

Well... I'm certainly no expert but I will try to answer.

You put them out too early... I put out May 18th and am fighting a couple of early bloomers myself... what I am doing is I got some 13.0.0 bat guano and top dressed a cup into the soil around the plant, the added N minus the P and K will help them to turn around coupled w/the hours of light getting longer instead of shorter... there's not much else you can do once they are already flowering. She WILL turn herself around, she won't be as big as she would have but... it will be fine! IMNSHO.

I also would not use a plastic bag to manipulate the light... the method and time frame you described would induce further flowering, not prevent it. Besides, plants need air flow whether in veg or flower.

Your baby will turn around on her own... like I said, IMO... something high in nitrogen can/will help w/the re-vegging of the plant... this is my experience, someone else may have more/better info for ya... and greenest regards!

 

[Debudman]

Thanks Captain for your response, it makes me feel a bit better.
I was hoping it would turn around and I wouldn't have to cover it to induce flowering.

Up to now I've just been using a 4-5-3 organic mix that I been mixing into the top layer of soil and watering.

Now I ordered a non organic fertilizer called Jack's (formerly Peters). It should be arriving tomorrow. It's called their dynamic duo and is a 20-20-20 blend and a blossom booster which is a 10-30-20.
They suggest using 1tbs of each in a 2 gallon watering can. I read where a few growers had good success with this stuff. I think I will just still to the 20-20-20 for the veg state though and when they flower then switch to the 10-30-20.

I would definately do as you recommended with the bat guano, but since I already purchased my fertilizers and am trying to pinch penny's right now I wanted to use what I have. Hopefully the p-k value won't negatively impact it at this stage.

Thanks again for your response though...
Next time around I will try a month later.
I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[Debudman]

After thinking more about your post... I may see if I can find some reasonably priced bat guano and possibly just top dress my 1 flowering plant with it and use my other fertilizers on my other 2, which are in strong veg state and not flowering yet. Hmmmm choices choices...

 

[Debudman]

Ok I now figured out how to post my picture
Here it is .. As you can see it has started budding.
In my journey to the hardware store today I found some organic dried blood that had a 13-0-0 range and I picked it up. I will try to feed it to this budding plant. I wonder though what would happen if i just used the 20-20-20 on it.
Do you know?

 

[Captain Kronic]

The reason I suggested the guano high in N is that you want to avoid encouraging flowering at this point.
This year is my first time dealing w/an early flowering plant. I don't doubt that the 20x3 would make them happy but, I went w/the 13.0.0 top dressed and then cut down the amount of P and K for a few feedings... the ones that are trying to bud are holding steady now and I think I have them turned around.
She looks healthy enough, I don't think she will suffer at all from a high nitrogen fert!

Someone else may know more on this... I can only tell you what I have done...

 

[Debudman]

Captain..
Don't get me wrong, I definitely appreciate your helpful information.
Growing can be a challenge with all the components of Mother Nature and different fertilizers and products on the market.
Common sense plays a big part, and I agree with your analogy of the nitrogen only. Since phosphorous helps induce budding then it is good logic that you wouldn't want to use that when you are trying to revert back to vegging. You mentioned that yours are trying to bud. I think mine is past that stage though. Does your look like my photo? I am wondering if mine is to far in the flowering stage to revert back to vegging. I will try the 13-0-0 for awhile and see what happens.. Like you say it couldn't hurt.

 

[Truth Seeker]

yea debudman, that little baby there needs some more Nitrogen!!! its stunted in growth, but also during vegging she can still start budding, it all has to do with the lighting, in which i see its an outdoor, so it gets what nature gives to it. Also with a clone, it can go into flowering at 12 in. and it still will double in size. what is the lighting where you live? whats the time from sunrise to sunset? if its 14 hours or longer then she will start going back to vegging, it will stress the plant some, so watch out for herming.

now for your nutes, what are you using?? you should really try to use ones that have all the micro nutes as well as the macro nutes for her, like the kelp, the wormcastings, and the bat guano thats already in it! none of that MG stuff!!! i did that at the very beginning of mine and foound out that is a no no.

hope this helps



EDIT: also, i just noticed that your here in cali also, anyways, i read somewhere for clones, that if you were planning an outdoor clone that you want to start it at the first day of summer outside, but you want to root your clone for a week prior to putting her outside, after the week your supposed to harden her, what that means i still dont know yet, but yea, then by June 21st you can set her to the sun and nature!!!

 

[Debudman]

Hello Astron,

I am in the South Bay California...
Not exactly sure how much we get here, but I know it would be at least 14 hours. I know now that I planted late (4/20) and should have planted (06/01).
But 2 of my plants seem to be vegging just fine outside of the white hairs that have just started developing.

Here's the little dense plant that seems to be flowering.
It's starting to smell very skunky and the buds are developing through the length of the branches.

Here is the fertilizer that I had ordered.. Jack's Classic Duo..
This is what is in it.. It has most of the micro nutrients I believe.

JACK'S ALL PURPOSE
Total Nitrogen (N)....................................... 20%
2.1% Nitrate Nitrogen
17.9% Urea Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)....................... 20%
Soluble Potash (K2O)................................. 20%
Boron (B).................................................... 0.02%
Copper (Cu)................................................ 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe)...................................................... 0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)......................................... 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)....................................... 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)...................................................... 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the
JACK's BLOSSOM BOOSTER
Total Nitrogen (N)....................................... 10%
5% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
5% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)....................... 30%
Soluble Potash (K2O)................................. 20%
Magnesium (Mg)......................................... 0.5%
0.50% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Boron (B).................................................... 0.02%
Copper (Cu)................................................ 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe)...................................................... 0.10%
0.10% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)......................................... 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)....................................... 0.0009%
Zinc (Zn)...................................................... 0.05%
0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

I just put my plants to bed tonight and fed them some organic 13-0-0 dry blood to give it more nitrogen.

You mentioned some good organic ingredients.. Worm Casting, Kelp, Bat Guano. Is there a brand that you would recommend that provides like a kit that has everything you need at a reasonable price? I know many use Fox Farms and many others. If I decide not to use Jack's and go full organic I would like to use something that does not require multiple mixtures and bottles and basically has everything you need to make it easier . What do you use and where do you get it?

 

[Truth Seeker]

lol i wish i could recommend something but I am a newbie grower, I have a White Widow going right now, today is day 43 and it is the very first grow that i have ever done, after i had started i had done some big rookie mistakes and too many little rookie mistakes. So after learning a lot from this site in particular i went on to plant some seeds and give my luck outside, by pure luck, i planted like exactly the day the seed should be put in for growing outdoors. anyways, right now with my White widow I am using Fox Farms nutes for her flowering stage i have Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom, here are the specs on those 2

Fox Farms Big Bloom
Total Nitrogen........................................0.01%
0.002% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
0.001% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.005% Other water soluble Nitrogen
0.002% Water insoluble Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)......................0.03%
Soluble Potash (K2O)..............................0.07%

Derived from: Earthworm castings, Bat and Seabird Guano, Rock Phosphate, Sulfate of potash Magnesia, Norwegian Kelp.

Fox Farms Tiger Bloom

Total Nitrogen (N)................................................................2.0%
0.10%.......Ammoniacal Nitrogen
1.90%.............Nitrate Nitrogen

Available Phosphate (P2O5)...................................................8.0%

Soluble Potash (K2O)...........................................................4.0%
Magnesium (Mg).................................................................0.5%
0.5%........Water Soluble Magnesium
Boron (B)..........................................................................0.02%
Copper (Cu)......................................................................0.05%
0.5%........Chelated Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe)..........................................................................0.12%
0.12%.........Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)................................................................0.06%
0.06%.........Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Zinc (Zn)..........................................................................0.05%
0.05%.........Chelated Zinc (Zn)

Derived from: Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Potassium, Potassium Nitrate, Eartworm Castings, Kelp, Iron EDTA, Zinc EDTA, Manganese EDTA, Copper EDTA, Chelating Agent, Disodium Ethylenediamine Tetra Accelate (EDTA), and Sodium Borate.

You can pick these up at any local Hydroponic store, im not sure about a nursery, but i picked mine up at a Hydro store. You can google it and it will pull up whatever is near you.

 

[Debudman]

Yes indeed, I've seen the fox farms trio through Amazon and Ebay.
I've been reading quite a bit myself and have seen good results from both the organic blends as well as the non organic blends. I know I will probably get struck by lightning or something for saying this , but I think many of these organic products on the market are far over priced and over rated. Nothing against organics by any means, but I have to draw the line at expense at some point. I was at the hardware store today and seen a little bag of bat quano sold in their hydroponics section for like 20 bucks.. I know that is not that much, but 20 here and 20 there and before you know it you have quite a bit of money invested. Don't get me wrong though I try to eat as many organic fruits and vegetables as possible from Trader Joes, but I don't buy everything organic or it would break the bank. I do believe in using a good blend of organic soil with the right mix and prepare a month before planting so the plant can suck up all the good stuff during its early stage of development. After that I am just not sure. I have seen some intense grows with non organic fertilizer found at a fraction of the cost. In comparisons I have seen the non organic grows have actually prevailed. The real question is that if one uses the non organic fertilizer will it leave any harmful products in the bud after you flush clean for 2 weeks prior to harvest like they recommend.
I think if there is no harmful ingredients passed on then the non organic method could be a good choice as well. I know that it can pollute the soil with salts and stuff, but that can be removed and renewed each grow.
Maybe others have more to comment on this subject.

 

[The303Stoner]

Age old organics is cheap and organic. Bone meal and blood meal are cheap. Compost is free if you make your own. I really was wondering what the question is here? I tried Advanced nutrients Organic tea it pricey but it works. I'm into Fish and seaweed as my base nowadays. you cant go wrong with Humboldt Nutrients line of organic products . I use Thrive Alive B1 organic on my babies and transplants ,and cloning I cant resist adding some thing to my water its 1-1-1 it's derived from kelp with B1 added.

 

[Debudman]

Hello Stoner,

My initial question was...
What I should do with one of my clones that has prematurely started flowering?
Basically how I might send it back to a vegatative state.

The recommendation I received was to use a high nitrogen fertilizer with zero phosporous and potassium.

We then started discussing different fertilizers organic vs non organic and the costs associated to some of the organic stuff.

I think I found the cause of my early flowering.
One side of my backyard gets the longest sun, but it doesn't come on till
later in the morning (@ 10:30am). This is the side I planted the early budding plant. It gets dark here in California about 8:30pm or so. This means it is only getting 10 hours of light (doh!). I guess I can chalk that up to another rookie mistake. The other 2 I planted were a bit on the left side and getting the sun a couple hours earlier so they are probably getting a bit over 12. This is why they are still remaining in the veg state.
So I guess now I will just feed my budding plant a budding fertilizer higher in phosporous so that it can remain budding and get the nutrients it needs to produce better buds. I will have a 12 inch budding plant, but all should not be a loss. I should get a few decent buds at least. Next time I will gauge the light better in my yard...

 

[The303Stoner]

Yeah Cali outdoors are awesome I seen monsters. now you know a better time to put your plants out I want to put some out after the equinox with clones right now i guess now would be good 6a.m. til 8p.m. of the day light hours. I just hope you don't get a hermi.

 

[Truth Seeker]

hey Debudman, you know that it doesnt go by what time the sun actually starts shining on the plant, it goes by what time the light starts brightening up the sky, so when like half the sky has turned blue, then thats the time the plants start to see light! like for example my outdoors wake up at around 5 - 5:30ish thats when the sky starts turning blue, then by the time the sun is all the way down and the sky starts turning black again is at about 8:00pm, so you see, my outdoor ones get approximatley 15 hours of light, not quite there, but as long as they keep vegging im good. the light times should be about the same seeing as how you live in So Cal as well...

 

[Debudman]

Aston,

Thanks man.. I didn't realize that was the case.
That is awsome information. If that is the case then I should be for sure
getting over 12 hours of light.

With that said then the mystery still exists as to why my one plant started budding early then?.. hmmmm.

 

[Truth Seeker]

hey there debudman,
hows that purple kush coming along??? you know i started thinking about your situation and wanted to know if it continued to flower or if stopped and started vegging again? if its still flowering, i got to thinking that maybe it happened to be a Auto strain. you might want to check with the dispensary that you got it from and know if the mother was an Auto!!!

Hope all is well!!!

 

[Debudman]

Hey Astron,

That's good thinking.
I heard of the auto strains.
I will certainly ask them next time I make a trip over there.

despite the 70-80 degree super clear weather we've been having in the last week it hasn't made any attempt to veg in the least bit. I have accepted that it will stay in the flowering stage and therefore fed it a 1/2 dose of Jack's veg fertilizer 10-10-10 and 1/2 dose of the blossom booster. With the combined value of 15-25-20. I figured I would maintain that on a 15 day interval and watch the buds swell. I just picked up a handheld microscope at radioshack... Their 60-100mm zoom. I was able to see the clear trichomes with it, but was a bitch to view when holding up to the plant. I read that the easiest way is cut a snip off and drop on a piece of paper and view on your table in the house. I will try that next. Still to early though to worry about that at this point I think.

My other 2 have remained in the veg state and are growing fast. Those I fed 10-10-10 and will follow them with a 15 day interval of that formula. I am continuing to top the 2 and force them to be super bushy. I got some stakes and have tied down the branches so more sun gets in through the center. I have also cloned 3 little ones off the blue dream and they have been doing great. They have been vegging under a 75w cfl . They are green and happy. Those I plan on just dropping into 5-8 gallon plastic pots.
I thought I would use those to experiment some more with different locations and different techniques.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts..
How is your setup doing?

 

[Truth Seeker]

oh my setup is now coming to an end, i have her in the 3 day darkness before i harvest, she is in day 1 right now, its exciting to know that i made it through my first grow!!! now i have to get a few supplies, soil, and lights for the next setup!!! i was inspired by mad mardo, he had a tub setup in his closet, and he did LST on his ladies and that is something that i am going to be doing for my next grow as well!!! but i will not be making the same rookie mistakes that i made with my first 1... as for the ladies outside, 1 of them isnt doing so well as the other is just starting to grow out!!! i did a transplant on her and she took just nicely to it.... feel free to head on over and check them out

 

[Truth Seeker]

Happy 4th Debudman!!!


Keep em growing!!!