Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

Yes, I hear you. There's a lot of new information I'm taking in right now, with the comparison grow, and with the other 3 plants I have in SIPs, 2 of which are in veg. And @Gee64 recently turning me on to brix. I feeling like my SIP design could work very well starting in the springtime (March?) when the overhead sun returns, and I clean my greenhouse roofs. The Hawaii sun is quite intense. And then I also need to be on top of early feeding in veg, which I totally failed to do with the comparison grow. I kinda blew it with that because this is a bad time of year to expect good results in any kind of container. Another thing I'm thinking about now is, what the heck should I do at this time of year, and for that I'm thinking of other strains/phenos that are strongly fungus/mold resistant. Even though HI-BISCUS showed a very good springtime result for zero bud rot, it does rather suck for leaf mold. I'm rambling now, but my CBD #18 currently in veg, and still in a 1 gal pot, is looking absolutely fantastic and needs to be transferred to a SIP. She's a compact plant that produces a lot of resin and terps. As for brix, I can't do much about brix with the lack of sunlight at this time of year, so then I need to rely more on natural fugus/mold resistance in this case. In the spring/summer it's a whole different story.

In general, I'm still on the path to try out the new strains/phenos on my list for high bud rot resistance... Northern Lights #5 and the others. I'm feeling like it will take two or three more years to arrive at what I'm looking for, and have strains/phenos for different times of the year. It also crossed my mind to try another comparison of two identical clones, one flowered in my flower house, and the other flowered outside the greenhouse in direct sun. The increased brix could offset any negatives from the plant getting too wet from the rain. I have a friend who grew a Skywalker outdoors recently and he didn't have any fungal problems. My veg house makes sense, because I use night interruption lighting, but the flower house doesn't need lighting. It's only purpose is to protect the plants from too much rain.
High brix is really just some tweaks to the soil. Some extra calcium and phosphorus mostly. Then just don't overwater or the air in the soil will get choked off.

You add a bit extra P when you mix the soil, and a sack of prilled dolomite from a farm store will brew you up all the calmag you could ever need. A refractometer will tell you when to use calcium.

So if you make all your soil capable of high brix, then if there's enough light to drive photosynthesis properly the brix just happens.

The only real other thing is the myco needs to stay really healthy too, so a watering with some fish hydrolosate every 10 days or so is needed for that.

So it's not hard. It's surprisingly easy actually if you plan it ahead so you can mix your soil just a bit differently.

To be honest I'm perplexed as to why it isn't the norm for all LOS growers.

I think somewhere along the lines it got commercialized, and to be a good business model it needs to appear magical and complex. It's not.

If you read up on it, sooner or later someone will mention foliars. Those aren't the people you want to follow. Those are the guys who got hooked by the commercialization. You get higher brix easier when it comes from the soil. Foliars are a hack.

Plus being able to get rid of bug spray only to replace it with feed sprays doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Have you looked into beauveria bassiana. It's similar to myco, and compliments myco, and is touted as a fungal suppressor.

@StoneOtter uses it. Maybe he can weigh in here. It may really help you out in the moldy season. It's a soil additive or a spray, but the spray harms bees.

When does your season become less fungally dangerous?
 
Ah yes the other season will probably be a different matter.
Yes, I want to continue to grow year round, but it does make sense to have big yields in spring/summer that I can stash for the winter. My goal is a solid 8 oz from SIP plants, that is if I decide to stick with the SIPs. I'm not going to make a decision on that until I have more results.

Have you looked into beauveria bassiana. It's similar to myco, and compliments myco, and is touted as a fungal suppressor.
Yeah, I actually know what that is. Also metarhizium anisopliae is another saprophytic fungi that's also parasitic on insects. Another beneficial fungus is trichoderma which I have used to help the root zone.

When does your season become less fungally dangerous?
Yeah, only "less"... when the sun returns. Nov. and Dec. are the wettest/coldest/cloudiest months. Sometime in probably late Jan. things start to change. It's possible for us to have a mini-drought in Feb.
 
Yes, I want to continue to grow year round, but it does make sense to have big yields in spring/summer that I can stash for the winter. My goal is a solid 8 oz from SIP plants, that is if I decide to stick with the SIPs. I'm not going to make a decision on that until I have more results.


Yeah, I actually know what that is. Also metarhizium anisopliae is another saprophytic fungi that's also parasitic on insects. Another beneficial fungus is trichoderma which I have used to help the root zone.


Yeah, only "less"... when the sun returns. Nov. and Dec. are the wettest/coldest/cloudiest months. Sometime in probably late Jan. things start to change. It's possible for us to have a mini-drought in Feb.
Lol come on mini drought!!

How are the plant heights comparing? Still a couple inches between them?
 
Geez CBDH, I thought I was an early riser. It's not even 3am in Hawaii yet. Have a coffee☕🤣👊
🤣Oh no, not earlier riser! Night owl! Dude, I cannot drink coffee.
Are the Hawaiian strains, such as Maui Wowie, any more fungal resistant than most?
Others have asked me why the heck I don't just grow what other growers grow here, that's known to be fungus resistant. The answer is simple... I can't find any reliable source for good seed or clones. I ran into one guy once who was selling some popular Hawaiian stuff, but it was too expensive for me. He claimed all his seed produced completely bud rot resistant plants. So I've done a ton of research in this thread, and have come up with a list of strains/phenos to try out, such as Northern Lights #5. According to my theory, the magic comes with high terpinolene (or ocimene) content, along with other pine terpenes, high myrcene, and high resin production (total terpenes).
 
🤣Oh no, not earlier riser! Night owl! Dude, I cannot drink coffee.

Others have asked me why the heck I don't just grow what other growers grow here, that's known to be fungus resistant. The answer is simple... I can't find any reliable source for good seed or clones. I ran into one guy once who was selling some popular Hawaiian stuff, but it was too expensive for me. He claimed all his seed produced completely bud rot resistant plants. So I've done a ton of research in this thread, and have come up with a list of strains/phenos to try out, such as Northern Lights #5. According to my theory, the magic comes with high terpinolene (or ocimene) content, along with other pine terpenes, high myrcene, and high resin production (total terpenes).
If the resistence is in the terpenes then high brix will really help. Allowing plants to achieve a full potential on terpenes is what high brix does best.
 
High brix is really just some tweaks to the soil. Some extra calcium and phosphorus mostly. Then just don't overwater or the air in the soil will get choked off.

You add a bit extra P when you mix the soil, and a sack of prilled dolomite from a farm store will brew you up all the calmag you could ever need. A refractometer will tell you when to use calcium.

So if you make all your soil capable of high brix, then if there's enough light to drive photosynthesis properly the brix just happens.

The only real other thing is the myco needs to stay really healthy too, so a watering with some fish hydrolosate every 10 days or so is needed for that.

So it's not hard. It's surprisingly easy actually if you plan it ahead so you can mix your soil just a bit differently.

To be honest I'm perplexed as to why it isn't the norm for all LOS growers.

I think somewhere along the lines it got commercialized, and to be a good business model it needs to appear magical and complex. It's not.

If you read up on it, sooner or later someone will mention foliars. Those aren't the people you want to follow. Those are the guys who got hooked by the commercialization. You get higher brix easier when it comes from the soil. Foliars are a hack.

Plus being able to get rid of bug spray only to replace it with feed sprays doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Have you looked into beauveria bassiana. It's similar to myco, and compliments myco, and is touted as a fungal suppressor.

@StoneOtter uses it. Maybe he can weigh in here. It may really help you out in the moldy season. It's a soil additive or a spray, but the spray harms bees.

When does your season become less fungally dangerous?
Hi guys, I used it once last season and also paid attention to brix the best I/we could. The BB and high brix levels made the best harvest from my outdoor garden yet!

What I noticed different from years past? No spider mites! They haunted me right up to using this technique, then disappeared. Second, Powdery mildew was very low and only at the very end when brix fell from not enough sun like early October maybe late September. Third, and I can't believe it! Bud rot was about a couple of ounces in 5 pounds dry after harvest! No bt or anything else this grow. But wait, there's more! One plant, Runtz Muffin was said to get 6 feet tall by the seller but actually got to 9 or 10 feet! Perfect health all the way too! Where am I? Six, the best tasting bud yet from my yard!

I started it off in seedling soil. Then every 6 weeks I think with a foliar. Could have been 4 week periods. 3 times total. They say foliar spraying with bees present can infect them and they bring it back on their bodies and it kills their young in the hive. I had no bees present when I sprayed. On a further look I'll skip the foliar and keep going with drenches I'm thinking. Bees are important.

Anyway, I liked it.
 
I found a traditional SIP was keeping my soil too wet for getting my brix up, so I'm trialing a few of hacks to see if I can get around the issues.

Granted, I grow in small containers so the PWT is higher in my 2G buckets than it would be in a 5G, I make my own soil which may be too high in organic content, and I have diy lighting which may not be the best for our type of plant.

I've recently crossed over the 12 brix threshold which should jump start things from here, I've moved to 8" net pots which helps with O2, and next round I'm going to trial a different connector pot setup between the reservoir and the soil.
 
I found a traditional SIP was keeping my soil too wet for getting my brix up, so I'm trialing a few of hacks to see if I can get around the issues.

Granted, I grow in small containers so the PWT is higher in my 2G buckets than it would be in a 5G, I make my own soil which may be too high in organic content, and I have diy lighting which may not be the best for our type of plant.

I've recently crossed over the 12 brix threshold which should jump start things from here, I've moved to 8" net pots which helps with O2, and next round I'm going to trial a different connector pot setup between the reservoir and the soil.
I still haven't quite wrapped my head around my current situation, with my SIP, soil wetness, and thoughts about sunlight and brix.

Prior to actually building a SIP, and growing plants in them, I had it in my head that the SIP would magically provide more nutrients, because nutrients would always be available in the reservoir water. At this point, I have no evidence to show that is actually happening. I've been top-fertigating, and the reservoir is holding the fert water, but whether or not the deep roots can absorb the nutrients that way, I don't know. I guess it depends on the pH of the fert water. What is happening, however, is that as the upper roots consume the water, more water is wicked up.

I was also under the impression that the air provided by the domes would add some more magic for the health of the roots and for nutrient absorption.

Regarding the SIP soil being too wet, I view the SIP as an extender of the wet part of the wet/dry cycle. I'm fine with letting the reservoir fert-water get wicked up, and used up, and then having a period of drying out just like a pot. I really don't care about the self-watering aspect of the SIP—that's not why I decided to try out SIPs.

So at this point I'm still not seeing the benefit of the SIP, or at least this SIP that I have designed. There also seem to be added challenges involved in using LOS, but I definitely want to continue using LOS.

Am I correct in thinking that the amazing results some people are getting from SIPs are because of indoor grows under optimal lighting, feeding, temperature, humidity, and air flow?

I can understand that if there's no down side to fert water sitting in the reservoir, and getting wicked up as needed, then there's an improvement in the availability of water and nutrients as compared to a normal pot which reaches the dry point of the wet/dry cycle and must then be manually fertigated. In other words, there's a delay there before the next fertigation. What I don't know is if the SIP soil also needs a drying out period, or if the reservoir can just be refilled when it runs low. Intuition tells me it should also be allowed to dry some, just like a pot.
 
Part 2 of above...

Regarding brix, I can't test yet (don't have the device yet), but I'm sure leaf brix will be quite low with my flowering plants, and maybe a bit better for the vegging ones. Probably not in a healthy range for either.

So I've got two issues—unknowns regarding my 5 gal SIP, and low brix due primarily to lack of sunlight.

The comparison grow has been helpful, because I can see that the SIP and the nursery pot grow outcome has been fairly similar. It shows that the SIP performance, given the current seasonal low sunlight and high humidity, has not boosted performance beyond the nursery pot. I feel like I basically need to repeat the comparison grow in the spring, probably with a different strain/pheno.

Having the CBD plant also in flower, in a SIP, has been helpful, because I can see that it also has problems. Cola formation was amazing, but it seems there hasn't been enough light for proper bud formation. Individual buds are small, not well-developed, and with few stigmas and low resin production. Bud rot is now setting in on the top cola, and I'll need to harvest probably tomorrow.

For now, during this low-light season, I will just let the SIPs have a drying out period after the reservoir is empty. I'll also continue my work to clear vegetation around the flower house to let in more light and air flow. Another thing I can do is transfer the SIP plants to flower sooner, which should allow them to put more energy into fewer buds.
 
Part 2 of above...

Regarding brix, I can't test yet (don't have the device yet), but I'm sure leaf brix will be quite low with my flowering plants, and maybe a bit better for the vegging ones. Probably not in a healthy range for either.

So I've got two issues—unknowns regarding my 5 gal SIP, and low brix due primarily to lack of sunlight.

The comparison grow has been helpful, because I can see that the SIP and the nursery pot grow outcome has been fairly similar. It shows that the SIP performance, given the current seasonal low sunlight and high humidity, has not boosted performance beyond the nursery pot. I feel like I basically need to repeat the comparison grow in the spring, probably with a different strain/pheno.

Having the CBD plant also in flower, in a SIP, has been helpful, because I can see that it also has problems. Cola formation was amazing, but it seems there hasn't been enough light for proper bud formation. Individual buds are small, not well-developed, and with few stigmas and low resin production. Bud rot is now setting in on the top cola, and I'll need to harvest probably tomorrow.

For now, during this low-light season, I will just let the SIPs have a drying out period after the reservoir is empty. I'll also continue my work to clear vegetation around the flower house to let in more light and air flow. Another thing I can do is transfer the SIP plants to flower sooner, which should allow them to put more energy into fewer buds.
Is there any possibility of adding some supplemental lighting to the greenhouse to boost the ppfd? That would chunk your buds up. Also here is an interesting article on fighting powdery mildew, it may work on all your fungals. It might be worth looking into.

 
Am I correct in thinking that the amazing results some people are getting from SIPs are because of indoor grows under optimal lighting, feeding, temperature, humidity, and air flow?
And so far non-LOS.

Gee explains it better than I so I'll paraphrase.

A synthetic SIP grow is like a restaurant with an open buffet where the plants can help themselves to all the food and water they want and because of that they grow almost non-stop, just like hydro.

An LOS grow is more like a high-end restaurant with table service. The wait staff are exceptionally qualified and attentive, but they're also primadonna's, only willing to work in near ideal conditions. Too cold or wet or dim or whatever and the servers go on strike until working conditions are restored to their liking.

They are super good at what they do if the owner provides the proper environment, but like a high performance race car they have "certain needs." That's not necessarily a bad thing if the owner understands and provides the environment the staff requires.

So, even in your extended cycle example, the microbes are on strike for long periods of time until conditions end up in the sweet spot in the cycle, specifically a tight range of soil moisture content (really more a tight range of open hallways for O2). Those hallways are available to both air and water, with water displacing air in the soil mix. So during the cycle when the hallways are filled with water (and therefore lack of air), the waitstaff sit it out until air returns. So the patrons (plants) can ask for whatever they want, but the staff are sitting it out until things improve.

Now, the air chambers down low provide air to the roots which help keep things more aerobic, but if the soil pathways are filled with water (displacing the air) the microbes go on strike waiting for their preferred working conditions.

So that's why in my next round I'm going to trial a couple of things to help improve the environment while still providing the access to limitless water to see if I can hack an organic SIP grow. Mine's not LOS, but same principles apply.
 
Is there any possibility of adding some supplemental lighting to the greenhouse to boost the ppfd? That would chunk your buds up.
No, I'm off-grid with a small solar power system. Not enough power for lights. Anyway, there's no electricity at my flower house.

Also here is an interesting article on fighting powdery mildew, it may work on all your fungals. It might be worth looking into.

Good you bring that up, because that's another thing going on here... the greenhouse roofs block UV light. Hawaii has intense UV.
 
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