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Question about different leaf shapes

Treeibus

Well-Known Member
I Have a question about leafs. I have noticed different plants have different number of fingers on the leafs... The plants I have grown in the past were 5 finger spread... The current grow im on I have used seeds from bag (really good strains tho) so I have a mix mash of plants this time... I have a few plants that have a 7 finger spread . And a few that are 5 .... and looks like one of them has 9 fingers on each leaf.... can anyone clarify this for me im so confused as to what is what



 

Rexer

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Agemon

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Most of the time leaf shape, size, & color are determined by genetics. Same reason all people are different too.
 

Sgtsativa

Well-Known Member
The shape, size and venation pattern of leaves are influenced by the arrangement of photosynthetic organelles and stomata. ... The final shape of the leaves is determined by the complex interplay of all these factors, ultimately governed by the plant growth hormones like Auxin and Cytokinin. I didn’t see mention of genetics anywhere but....who knows
 

Treeibus

Well-Known Member
The shape, size and venation pattern of leaves are influenced by the arrangement of photosynthetic organelles and stomata. ... The final shape of the leaves is determined by the complex interplay of all these factors, ultimately governed by the plant growth hormones like Auxin and Cytokinin. I didn’t see mention of genetics anywhere but....who knows
WOW thats fascinating .So the leaves could turn out in many diff ways ? Interesting I always thought that it was the diffrence between being indica vs. sativa vs. ruderalis ... I always wondered how some plants leaves have 5 or 7 or 9 finger spread, and how some of mine this go around has 6 ... Thank you for ur input @Sgtsativa
 

CanadianJim

Well-Known Member
I think genetics has a role too. I mostly grow indica strains, and they have usually had 5 to 7 leaflets. When I have grown hybrids they usually had 7 and some times 9. But then I top most of my plants. I had one that was growing 9 leaflets, but when I topped it they went down to 5 and gradually went back up to 7.
I have one that has 9, and it looks like 11 on the next set which are growing in now. That one is listed as 80% indica.
 

Sgtsativa

Well-Known Member
Sorry it is genetics but that blurb was the details behind the genetics my bad guys. Sorry. I guess the interesting part for me is seeing it happen fast once with one plant that just dominated the species from a mutation or a slow progressive environmental factor
 

Sgtsativa

Well-Known Member
You know what I’m not sorry I was wrong . It’s not genetics. It’s been passed on by genetics but these factors attributed to the original design of leaves to be perpetuated through genetics. That should be a sufficient answer to op’s question. There’s more to it then that and I don’t want to spend too much time on it. But the 7 , 9,11 leaves are determined by the stomata etc. while this last post contributes to ops question
Cheers
 
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013

Well-Known Member
Stomata schlomata... Genetics for the win, pure & simple. That one plant represents a small genetic slice of all the parents that contributed to making it. Given the nature of weed smoking hippies & outdoor growing plus many strains being pollinated outdoors without the knowledge or consent of the grower - we don’t know a fraction of the true lineage in our strains. Try this.... ask one tiny bee exactly where he got the pollen & what strain did it come from? Maybe he’s got a pollen card reader stuck up his bum, but I’m guessing not. How many times per day was that flowering plant visited by different bees?

Consider this, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048 that represents the genetic makeup of any living thing if you count back 11 generations. So that’s 2048 ancestors in 11 generations right?
Wrong, because you have to total all those numbers not double them out. So totaled there are 3582 potential ancestors in just 11 generations.

Anyone who breeds cannabis knows that every branch on a female plant can be pollinated by a different male. So theoretically a female plant with 50 different branch stems off the main trunk could have been pollinated by 50 different male plants. Agreed this is not likely in nature but if you grew out a bunch of different bag seeds in one location this could be closer to reality. Which branch did your seed come from? So the nagging question..... Who’s your daddy now???

However because of landrace strains (being landlocked in a geographical region) strain crosses were largely limited. Still defying our limited understanding - nature has the ability to move seeds across vast oceans and rugged continents. I was amazed one day to discover that our new pond was teaming with fish, thousands of minnows and hatchlings could be seen and we hadn’t stocked it. I know the pump intake had screens so fish or minnows were not pumped in from the creek. These were bass & sunfish which don’t live in the tiny creek anyway. I suppose that waterfowl brought in fish eggs either on their feet or in their waste products.

Smoke another fatty and ponder those numbers 3582 ancestors in only 11 generations, but this plant has been around for millennia.

While stomata may dictate the number of blades on a given leaf - you can bet your ass stomata get their marching orders directly from genetics.
 
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Sgtsativa

Well-Known Member
I disagree. The parents nature had to be dictated by something to begin with. That’s like saying blue eyes are genetics. True but what causes blue eyes to begin with? Genetics?. No.genetics are a story book of lineage and supply a limited number of traits. But how could genetics cause something on the first weed plant to form? Can you dig it? And I would never Wager a donkey on something so frivolous . ;)

I’m sure someone knows the answer to this carte blanche but we may never know here. Look to the skys the truth is out there . :)
 
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Treeibus

Well-Known Member
I think genetics has a role too. I mostly grow indica strains, and they have usually had 5 to 7 leaflets. When I have grown hybrids they usually had 7 and some times 9. But then I top most of my plants. I had one that was growing 9 leaflets, but when I topped it they went down to 5 and gradually went back up to 7.
I have one that has 9, and it looks like 11 on the next set which are growing in now. That one is listed as 80% indica.
Wow its a amazing to me. how diverse and diff each plant really is ... thanks for your information @CanadianJim ... this makes me happy because i think the majority of my plants this grow are Indica :-{)
 

Treeibus

Well-Known Member
You know what I’m not sorry I was wrong . It’s not genetics. It’s been passed on by genetics but these factors attributed to the original design of leaves to be perpetuated through genetics. That should be a sufficient answer to op’s question. There’s more to it then that and I don’t want to spend too much time on it. But the 7 , 9,11 leaves are determined by the stomata etc. while this last post contributes to ops question
Cheers
Thanks for the info @Sgtsativa this has always been a question of mine and i knew that i could come here and get an answer thanks :3:
 

Sgtsativa

Well-Known Member
While stomata may dictate the number of blades on a given leaf - you can bet your ass stomata get their marching orders directly from genetics.

Are you guys serious?
 

Treeibus

Well-Known Member
Anyone who breeds cannabis knows that every branch on a female plant can be pollinated by a different male. So theoretically a female plant with 50 different branch stems off the main trunk could have been pollinated by 50 different male plants. Agreed this is not likely in nature but if you grew out a bunch of different bag seeds in one location this could be closer to reality. Which branch did your seed come from? So the nagging question..... Who’s your daddy now???
HAHA Great point ... Amazing stuff

Smoke another fatty and ponder those numbers 3582 ancestors in only 11 generations, but this plant has been around for millennia.
WOW the numbers dont lie that is crazy!!! I am pleased, I can come to the 420 Mag. community and always get answers thanks @013
 

Treeibus

Well-Known Member
I disagree. The parents nature had to be dictated by something to begin with. That’s like saying blue eyes are genetics. True but what causes blue eyes to begin with? Genetics?. No.genetics are a story book of lineage and supply a limited number of traits. But how could genetics cause something on the first weed plant to form? Can you dig it? And I would never Wager a donkey on something so frivolous . ;)

I’m sure someone knows the answer to this carte blanche but we may never know here. Look to the skys the truth is out there . :)
From what im gathering there seems to be many diff answers to my question.. and all of them are relevant... I think during the selective breeding of diff types of Marijuana.. we may have lost some of the original strains that through the years have hybridized and changed. this topic is very fascinating to me ... thanks for u r imput
 

013

Well-Known Member
Not gonna argue or get in a pissing match. Whether you believe in space aliens, evolution or creation the parents nature was dictated by the parents that’s the whole point, every single trait is potentially represented in the various phenotypes with any given genotype.

We have no clue who our ancestors are. How can we know who was crossed into our lineage 15 or 20 generations back? We don’t have those records. Not only do you need to know who that ancestor was - you also need to know who his or her own ancestors were and further - who their ancestors were.

People of all races & ethnicities have mingled down thru the history of man but not as widespread then because travel was not available like it is now. If you go back and single out any one of the 3582 ancestors - that individual person has their own 3582 ancestors in 11 generations, and so do the other 3581 persons. And that’s just in 11 generations. I would expect every eye color to be possible within every race of humans. Note I said possible - not probable.

Just as with humans so it is with weed, we have different strains from different areas but now many have been cross bred. Genetics supply all traits but in differing proportions. Some of those traits are switched on while others are switched off but the occurrence of many similar traits being switched on totally override the weaker ones that are switched off. Survival of the fittest is a basic law of nature. While this is nowhere near being scientifically correct, it’s my best shot at how it works and of course - your mileage may vary.

But hey I’m an old country man who breeds livestock, so what the french fry do I know?
 
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