Question about pot size related to veg: several questions actually

Jon

Jon

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August 2024
Hi Guys!

Ok, so if anyone I tagged or anyone else sees this post who might happen to have some first hand experience with this, I have a scenario and a few questions, so I'm just tossing this out to the wind to see if I can learn something.

For my next grow I am considering trying to grow just one plant, from seed, in soil, in a 5x5 with height extender (Gorilla tent, so I have 8 full feet under the low profile professional light to play with), in a 10 gallon pot. The goal is to see how full I can get a 5x5 with one plant, specifically without a scrog net or anything, using only LST and potentially/probably HST like supercropping, and also (more importantly) to see what kind of yield I can get from a plant in a ten. I'm thinking the up-potting for that might potentially look like this:
Dixie Cup > One Gallon Pot > Five Gallon Pot > Ten Gallon Pot

The scenario is that simple with one twist. As you consider any of the questions below, if you don't know (and why would most of you?), I am paralyzed from the waist down and in a wheelchair. Which I only mention because it creates certain realities that must be observed for me to be physically capable of growing a plant that big, and which I would think one would want to please consider in the answers. For example, the plant MUST be on wheels and I MUST be able to rotate it 90 degrees inside the tent. With just a 90 degree rotation I can work from the front or back door and cover tending to the plant in one 90 degree turn which allows me to access all of it. So perhaps that limits the size of the plant. It's easy to turn a plant of any size if it's on wheels. The other important thing about that is that if I grow plants any taller at the end than about five feet, I will be looking up to my buds the entire time once they stretch and set. This is fine and ok, as I have that eventuality covered. But I mention it because I don't WANT to cut it off at a five or six foot plant. I want a 7 1/2 foot tall plant when it's done. So I'm not going to switch to a hydro system or anything else for this grow because this is likely my last grow in this house before I move, and all that will have to wait. But I think it would be cool to try for my sayonara grow to this godawful state. I'm 100% certain one can fill a 5x5 in a hydro setup based on what I've seen here from people's journals. But for this I'm talking only a straight soil grow just as I described. I have no idea what's possible in soil in this regard. My questions for anyone (preferably with some experience doing this, lol) are:

- Does that seem like a reasonable scenario in terms of up-potting, or is there a different order that would work better?
- How long would I realistically have to veg a plant to max out the potential of a 10 gallon container, if the goal is to end up with a plant about 7 1/2 or 8 feet tall MAX? (You can assume a sativa or sativa heavy hybrid, and that I might know just the tiniest bit about training, btw)
- Is there a bigger pot size than a ten, like a 12 or 15 or something, that would work better in this scenario? Or is ten about as big as you can go in a 5x5 with one plant?
- Assuming LST from the start where I top using Uncle Ben's method and try to end up before the flip with a "scrog plant without the scrog" kind of plant, where she's got a relatively even canopy and is very well spread out, is it possible to basically completely fill a 5x5 with that plant, a la as much as you might with a well done scrog?
- Assuming I could pull this off without messing it up and raise a relatively healthy plant start to finish, what is a realistic potential yield in this scenario from one plant in a ten?
- Has anyone done this exact thing, or know someone who has/does, who can direct me to a grow journal or the person who did it?
- Is it completely unrealistic and straight up crazy talk to think you could pull two full pounds dried and cured from one plant, tent-grown in a 5x5, in a ten gallon pot, grown in soil? Or is it possible in a 12 or what?

That's everything I can think of. Thanks in advance to anyone who might happen to have some input on this scenario. I appreciate the education very much.

Jon
 
Growings said:
You can LST autos and keep them 2' tall, much easier
Wish I'd remembered that before the Space Cookies tried growing out of the fking windows
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Hey @Growings, thanks for the response. Yes, I know this, I have a gorgeous one going now exactly in that manner in my current grow. But this would be my fourth grow we're talking about. I ain't filling a ten with an auto, I don't care if it was bred by Christ himself. Lol. I do, however, have several excellent choices of photos with which to work, ie,

- Chocolope Special Release Original Genetics seeds from DNA Genetics
- Future #1 from Anesia Seeds which arrive any day and is among the highest THC plants on earth
- Jelly Rancher from Humboldt Seed Company which I just grew and is amazing
- Raspberry Parfait from HSC which is the lowest THC option at around 24%
- Pineapple Upside Down Cake from HSC
- Slurricane from Greenpoint Seeds which I am currently growing one of and is very robust so far
- Ghost Train Haze, obviously one of the world's strongest strains, from Weedseedexpress, but bred by Rare Dankness and which I am currently growing
- Hulkberry, basically Bruce Banner #3 on steroids, also currently growing, and also way high in THC
- Blueberry from a non sponsored seedbank

Have you grown any of these? I'm thinking about the Chocolope or the Future #1, with the Raspberry Parfait currently my third choice. I know the Chocolope at least, as almost a pure sativa, can fill a ten and I can get a huge yield from it with ease, and perhaps more quickly than the others. Don't know about the others, other than a 33 days so far impression of the plants I'm currently growing (and in my current journal) that are on the list.

Thanks, man!
 
Tall isnt necessary. I like the multiple topping method, or the whack-a-mole method of training my plants. This isnt just to create a massive bush of the plant with 30+ buds on it, but the constant whacking also takes some of the energy out of the stretch process. I try to keep my plants trimmed to about 2.5 feet and then the stretch will double that. 5 foot plants are easily managed in my grow rooms in 7 to 10 gallon containers and each plant can easily net 1/2 pound or so dry weight, after vegging for approximately 2 months. The trick is to top early... node 4 or 5, or the plant will mature before you get it bushed out to 30+ nodes. Then the trick becomes figuring out how to hold up all that weight.
 
Emilya said:
Tall isnt necessary. I like the multiple topping method, or the whack-a-mole method of training my plants. This isnt just to create a massive bush of the plant with 30+ buds on it, but the constant whacking also takes some of the energy out of the stretch process. I try to keep my plants trimmed to about 2.5 feet and then the stretch will double that. 5 foot plants are easily managed in my grow rooms in 7 to 10 gallon containers and each plant can easily net 1/2 pound or so dry weight, after vegging for approximately 2 months. The trick is to top early... node 4 or 5, or the plant will mature before you get it bushed out to 30+ nodes. Then the trick becomes figuring out how to hold up all that weight.
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I realize tall isn't necessary, but is it not true that no matter what I did to the plant in terms of training, if I veg it long enough for it to be four feet tall with a flat canopy, will that not give me more yield Than a 2.5 foot tall plant trained precisely the same way? And as you see, I top fairly early and use UB. I like six to start, spread them out, then let the middle grow up. I also understand that multiple topping would be necessary to fill a 5x5 with one plant, no problem. What do you mean by "whacking?" You mean constant topping, yes? And that "taking some of the energy out of the stretch process," - I'm not sure if you are saying this is desirable or undesirable. I suppose if you want smaller (shorter) plants, it's desirable. Perhaps if not the opposite would be true, but unless I'm mistaken nobody can fill a 5x5 with any plant of any strain if they only top once. If that is possible I would love to see it.
 
Emilya said:
Tall isnt necessary. I like the multiple topping method, or the whack-a-mole method of training my plants. This isnt just to create a massive bush of the plant with 30+ buds on it, but the constant whacking also takes some of the energy out of the stretch process. I try to keep my plants trimmed to about 2.5 feet and then the stretch will double that. 5 foot plants are easily managed in my grow rooms in 7 to 10 gallon containers and each plant can easily net 1/2 pound or so dry weight, after vegging for approximately 2 months. The trick is to top early... node 4 or 5, or the plant will mature before you get it bushed out to 30+ nodes. Then the trick becomes figuring out how to hold up all that weight.
Click to expand...
Actually that begs another question or three. Let's say I trained a plant "my way", ie, pull the six mains to the side and even them out with the center growth. I mean my current plants, 3 photos in the 5x5. The auto will be gone. As I have begun to. What would be more effective at delivering more buds -
a. topping the six mains a second time?
b. topping the center growth when it gets big enough (maybe what, three weeks say?) and leaving the six mains alone?

And, if I did top the six mains a second time each, I understand I will then have 12 "mains." Are those 12 going to try and establish dominance over anything else that happens with the rest of the plant? Or is whatever I let get closest to the light going to take that role?

And, also if I topped the six mains a second time (say on all three plants), will that make my plants go nuts to the point where three of them in the 5x5 will be too much?

I apologize if I should already know some of this, but frankly I just don't. Thanks for the help.
 
If you veg to 4' tall you will have a problem because all of our plants are going to at least double in height when they stretch. So I set a limit around mid veg, at usually 2.5 feet. Then I start a little lower than that and start topping every node that tries to break that plane. Just like the whack-a-mole game where you smack the groundhog with the mallet every time he raises his head, I whack off the dominant buds as they try to rise above my limit. That creates two buds, and again, as they rise up I whack them too, creating now 4 buds. UB is a perfect method to start this by the way, to create shorter plants than I end up with and since it is chopped so early it will take a while to get to where the nodes start alternating.... so it is easy to get 30 nodes from an UB topped plant by using whack-a-mole.

There is also a strain dependent amount of stretch that you want to allow, so that your buds can fill in from the top to the bottom of the canopy... I shoot for 1 foot of stretched out branch at the top. A plant held down to lets say 2 feet, is not going to be able to produce as long of a completed bud as a plant that was able to stretch a bit more.

I have seen plants that were topped once or twice and allowed to get to 3 or 4 feet tall absolutely go nuts when flipped and stretch out to 7 or 8 feet. It seems that when I keep topping, keeping the plant short, there is no energy left to do the extraordinary stretch thing, but you can usually count on at least a doubling of the height. It doesn't always happen though... I have 3 plants in my room right now that are a good foot shorter than the rest and they didn't quite double in height... they were already runts, and I whacked them hard over and over again. I joke and say that I whacked the stretch energy out of them.
 
Jon said:
Actually that begs another question or three. Let's say I trained a plant "my way", ie, pull the six mains to the side and even them out with the center growth. I mean my current plants, 3 photos in the 5x5. The auto will be gone. As I have begun to. What would be more effective at delivering more buds -
a. topping the six mains a second time?
b. topping the center growth when it gets big enough (maybe what, three weeks say?) and leaving the six mains alone?

And, if I did top the six mains a second time each, I understand I will then have 12 "mains." Are those 12 going to try and establish dominance over anything else that happens with the rest of the plant? Or is whatever I let get closest to the light going to take that role?

And, also if I topped the six mains a second time (say on all three plants), will that make my plants go nuts to the point where three of them in the 5x5 will be too much?

I apologize if I should already know some of this, but frankly I just don't. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
In the end, each plant will typically have 3 mains, no matter how much chopping you did. Most of my plants had around 30 nodes this time, but most of the plants clearly have 3, sometimes 4, and sometimes 2, main kolas that rise up and take dominance, while the 27 other nodes develop some nice buds too, not as nice as the mains, but perfectly ok for our purposes.
 
Emilya said:
If you veg to 4' tall you will have a problem because all of our plants are going to at least double in height when they stretch. So I set a limit around mid veg, at usually 2.5 feet. Then I start a little lower than that and start topping every node that tries to break that plane. Just like the whack-a-mole game where you smack the groundhog with the mallet every time he raises his head, I whack off the dominant buds as they try to rise above my limit. That creates two buds, and again, as they rise up I whack them too, creating now 4 buds. UB is a perfect method to start this by the way, to create shorter plants than I end up with and since it is chopped so early it will take a while to get to where the nodes start alternating.... so it is easy to get 30 nodes from an UB topped plant by using whack-a-mole.

There is also a strain dependent amount of stretch that you want to allow, so that your buds can fill in from the top to the bottom of the canopy... I shoot for 1 foot of stretched out branch at the top. A plant held down to lets say 2 feet, is not going to be able to produce as long of a completed bud as a plant that was able to stretch a bit more.

I have seen plants that were topped once or twice and allowed to get to 3 or 4 feet tall absolutely go nuts when flipped and stretch out to 7 or 8 feet. It seems that when I keep topping, keeping the plant short, there is no energy left to do the extraordinary stretch thing, but you can usually count on at least a doubling of the height. It doesn't always happen though... I have 3 plants in my room right now that are a good foot shorter than the rest and they didn't quite double in height... they were already runts, and I whacked them hard over and over again. I joke and say that I whacked the stretch energy out of them.
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks, I understand all of that. However....(lol) - my tent is 9 feet tall and with the light at the highest possible point it can be and the necessary 10-12" I need to the closest bud (yes, I can get that close without overkilling the plants, depending on the strain), that allows me to (in theory) let a plant get 7.5 feet tall, comfortably. Not for me but for the plant. Lol. So that said, aren't you one of the people among dozens of others who made it clear to me in a very early conversation that the bigger the plant, the more bud you can produce? I mean, isn't that a hard and fast reality/fact? And if so, why shouldn't I start topping the six mains soonish, instead of waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall (or 3.75 in this scenario, assuming that's half the height and allows room for the plant to double), and top early as you suggest? Isn't waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall and then using topping as your canopy control mechanism (essentially what you're doing, no?) contrary to you saying top early?

I'm not arguing, just trying for a thorough understanding. Thanks. Not that I won't argue with you at times. Lol.
 
Emilya said:
You can see this in action in my comparative grow... I talked for quite a while about how to see dominance and how to move it around the plant while you still can. Once the nodes start alternating, the plant has figured things out and will choose its dominant nodes. The result is 3 or 4 buds at the top of the canopy and a whole lot of lesser buds just below them.
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Yeah I've been watching that. I see what you mean. The six colas I start with, which I am referring to as my six mains, are not, in the end, going to end up as six mains that all have equal dominance. That would be (it sounds like) extremely unlikely. You're saying at some point it doesn't matter what you do, the plant is going to choose it's own dominance in the end and focus it on three or four. From there, the better you have things evened out up top, the more even the yield on the rest of the buds, yes?
 
Jon said:
Ok, thanks, I understand all of that. However....(lol) - my tent is 9 feet tall and with the light at the highest possible point it can be and the necessary 10-12" I need to the closest bud (yes, I can get that close without overkilling the plants, depending on the strain), that allows me to (in theory) let a plant get 7.5 feet tall, comfortably. Not for me but for the plant. Lol. So that said, aren't you one of the people among dozens of others who made it clear to me in a very early conversation that the bigger the plant, the more bud you can produce? I mean, isn't that a hard and fast reality/fact? And if so, why shouldn't I start topping the six mains soonish, instead of waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall (or 3.75 in this scenario, assuming that's half the height and allows room for the plant to double), and top early as you suggest? Isn't waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall and then using topping as your canopy control mechanism (essentially what you're doing, no?) contrary to you saying top early?

I'm not arguing, just trying for a thorough understanding. Thanks. Not that I won't argue with you at times. Lol.
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On this current grow I allowed several of the plants to get too developed before I topped them the first time. One of the plants was already sending up node 7 when I topped, and instead of topping lower I just shaved off that top node. I got about 3 subsequent chops in before the plant matured on me and started sending out alternating nodes. From that time on, on that branch, topping no longer doubles the amounts of buds on that growth tip, it simply shortens it. If I had started earlier, I would have been able to top the growth tips 4 or 5 times on that branch, doubling the amount of buds each time and effectively making a bigger (wider) plant than what I ended up with. The best I ever saw was someone who had timed things perfectly and who ended up with 64 buds on one plant. That massive plant easily filled a 4x4 tent.
 
Jon said:
Yeah I've been watching that. I see what you mean. The six colas I start with, which I am referring to as my six mains, are not, in the end, going to end up as six mains that all have equal dominance. That would be (it sounds like) extremely unlikely. You're saying at some point it doesn't matter what you do, the plant is going to choose it's own dominance in the end and focus it on three or four. From there, the better you have things evened out up top, the more even the yield on the rest of the buds, yes?
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^^^ exactly right. You get a gold star!
 
Emilya said:
On this current grow I allowed several of the plants to get too developed before I topped them the first time. One of the plants was already sending up node 7 when I topped, and instead of topping lower I just shaved off that top node. I got about 3 subsequent chops in before the plant matured on me and started sending out alternating nodes. From that time on, on that branch, topping no longer doubles the amounts of buds on that growth tip, it simply shortens it. If I had started earlier, I would have been able to top the growth tips 4 or 5 times on that branch, doubling the amount of buds each time and effectively making a bigger (wider) plant than what I ended up with. The best I ever saw was someone who had timed things perfectly and who ended up with 64 buds on one plant. That massive plant easily filled a 4x4 tent.
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Ok, let's get down to actual action items. I have four plants. The Auto is obviously out. I am also not going to top the Hulkberry again. She's just so runtish despite her health that I'm just going to let her go with training. She may make great buds, but in my experience (you may have different experience, certainly way more) if the runt hasn't caught up size wise to the others by now, it's gonna stay a runt. My smallest plant at the end. So that leaves the Ghost Train Haze and the Slurricane. Both of these plants are perfect. Excellent candidates for multiple toppings.

So....
If the auto is out and there's three photos in there, and Hulkberry doesn't get any further toppings, should I top the other six colas (or maybe at least the four larger ones) on the GTH and the Slurricane like now-ish? I do feel that with just two of the three plants multiple topped I will be able to control the tent as a whole. Hopefully that's not wishful thinking. A better and more to the point question may be, how many nodes of a topped branch should I have before I top the second time on the same branch?
 
If you don't move fairly quickly you will run out of time before the plant matures and it is no longer possible to double the buds by topping, so I only let one more node grow up before topping again and never let 2 or 3 rise up or your plant is going to get very leggy. Set a max height for your canopy and chop accordingly... letting the lower nodes rise up until they get close to that limit, and then start chopping them.
 
Emilya said:
If you don't move fairly quickly you will run out of time before the plant matures and it is no longer possible to double the buds by topping, so I only let one more node grow up before topping again and never let 2 or 3 rise up or your plant is going to get very leggy. Set a max height for your canopy and chop accordingly... letting the lower nodes rise up until they get close to that limit, and then start chopping them.
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Muchas gracias.
 
Jon said:
Ok, thanks, I understand all of that. However....(lol) - my tent is 9 feet tall and with the light at the highest possible point it can be and the necessary 10-12" I need to the closest bud (yes, I can get that close without overkilling the plants, depending on the strain), that allows me to (in theory) let a plant get 7.5 feet tall, comfortably. Not for me but for the plant. Lol. So that said, aren't you one of the people among dozens of others who made it clear to me in a very early conversation that the bigger the plant, the more bud you can produce? I mean, isn't that a hard and fast reality/fact? And if so, why shouldn't I start topping the six mains soonish, instead of waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall (or 3.75 in this scenario, assuming that's half the height and allows room for the plant to double), and top early as you suggest? Isn't waiting til the plant is 2.5 feet tall and then using topping as your canopy control mechanism (essentially what you're doing, no?) contrary to you saying top early?

I'm not arguing, just trying for a thorough understanding. Thanks. Not that I won't argue with you at times. Lol.
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What light are you using that can penetrate a 7.5' tall plant to the bottom buds is what I'm wondering.
 
Buds Buddy said:
What light are you using that can penetrate a 7.5' tall plant to the bottom buds is what I'm wondering.
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Well, I figure if it penetrates 5 feet I'm doing okay, as the very lower two feet or so will basically be stripped at that point, but to answer your question, it's a non-sponsored light and I've been asked not to specify. I'll be glad to if you send me a private message. But yes, the light ROCKS.
 
Autos/photos, whatever, I always chop to 4-8 colas @about 2-3' after stretch
Only pure Indicas are allowed to do the big single cola thing
 
Jon said:
Well, I figure if it penetrates 5 feet I'm doing okay, as the very lower two feet or so will basically be stripped at that point, but to answer your question, it's a non-sponsored light and I've been asked not to specify. I'll be glad to if you send me a private message. But yes, the light ROCKS.
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I hear you. It's one thing I don't like much though. You should be able to say what equipment you're growing with....
sponsor or not. You use, what you use & detailed info always helps. I can't say the name of mine either. All I'm allowed to say is it is a 10 Bar, 800 watt that covers a 6x6 veg & 5x5 flower. I guess that's still enough info (kind of).
 
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