Question on topping?

[Jon]

Let's say I have decided I wish to top after the plant has developed four sets of leaves. So I am going to top the growth coming out of that node. I have seen this done two different ways:
1. People top the growth coming out of the node as soon as there's enough stem
2. People wait until there is another node or two then cut back to the desired node

My question is, what's the difference?

My logic says to top the growth without waiting for a new node to form would be LESS stressful to the plant, and therefore desirable. But I'm also thinking there is perhaps some balance between increased growth/bushy development and when you top, ie, maybe it's better to let the plant veg a little longer and then cut back a few nodes.

Anyone with input on this, thanks and it's greatly appreciated.

 

[Lerugged]

I think it's much the same. Leave at least 2 cm of main branch on top so your trunk doesn't split in two when it gets heavy. Other than that don't find much difference.

 

[Jon]

I think it's much the same. Leave at least 2 cm of main branch on top so your trunk doesn't split in two when it gets heavy. Other than that don't find much difference.

Thanks for the response. Here's another if you're so inclined: if there's to be a second topping, are you only topping the two new shoots from the first topping? Or can you top others as well? And how long between toppings is a good wait period? (Sorry for the questions, and thank you....)

 

[Nunyabiz]

I don't top and never have so my view on it may be jaded but it seems that most that wait and then top it a couple nodes down from the top are doing so to mainline.
My view on it is that all topping just slows growth, causes stress and the end product is the same as LST but you lose the strongest bud site in the process.
When I bend a seedling over to LST I get the same two bud sites as if I topped plus the main bud continues to grow and in 1/2" growth I get two more bud sites.

 

[Lerugged]

Yes as above I hardly top but bending branches parallel to the dirt will give you more tops. You could top any of the growing tips and double them. Many times I guess.

 

[nickeluring]

I top early - as soon as I can. I topped this Runtz Auto a few of days ago.

 

[InTheShed]

The longer you wait to top the more root growth you have. So if you top down a couple of nodes, your plant has the root system of a much taller plant. Some growers find that an advantage.

 

[Jon]

The longer you wait to top the more root growth you have. So if you top down a couple of nodes, your plant has the root system of a much taller plant. Some growers find that an advantage.

That is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

 

[Jon]

That is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks!

What would be a circumstance when that WOULDN'T be an advantage?

 

[InTheShed]

If you're on a short timetable then everything would happen sooner is all I can think of. I top down and haven't found any reason not to.

 

[Jon]

If you're on a short timetable then everything would happen sooner is all I can think of. I top down and haven't found any reason not to.

I'm in no hurry and want to keep the plant in veg for a full sixty days and also establish a completely and properly filled scrog screen in a 5x5. No short timetable, that's what the other tent with autos is for. Lol. I'm going to follow your lead and wait to top down a few nodes. Let them roots go a little. Thanks!

 

[InTheShed]

If you are working a scrog then topping down will help you get longer lower nodes you can use to fill in the outer squares.

 

[Jon]

If you are working a scrog then topping down will help you get longer lower nodes you can use to fill in the outer squares.

That's awesome thanks. Exactly the logic/science/grow magic I'm looking for. So I have three kinds of feminized seeds: Humboldt Seed Company Pineapple Upside Down Cake
Seedsman Blueberry
Royal Queen Seeds Hulkberry
Obviously I could choose one, grow just that strain, and save the others.
But I'd like to mix strains. The PUC and the BB have similar flowering times despite that one is strongly sativa and the other strongly indica. If I could make these two work side by side in a scrog I'd like to, and I'd save the Hulkberry for the next grow.
So as the above relates to the discussion (and thanks for having a discussion with me I really appreciate it), it would seem to me that I could use topping as one method of making sure both strains are maintaining approximately the same level of vertical growth, which is ideal, yes? I have to assume they are going to grow at different rates and in different ways, and I am assuming the BB will be bushier and the PUC longer/taller. So can I just top the PUC to let the BB catch up if the PUC grows up faster?

Does this question(s) make sense or am I being stupid?

 

[InTheShed]

The questions make sense, though sativas and indicas also can have completely different nutrient requirements (assuming you're not in a living soil). And the scrog takes care of the vertical growth, but not the vertical stretch after flip. That's going to be where you might run into some trouble keeping the canopy flat if it's a stretchy sativa.

Also, if you run them side by side it doesn't mean they necessarily each get 50% of the net! You may need to give the sativa more room because of the node spacing.

But if you're not desperate for the absolute biggest harvest you can get, nothing wrong with trying things out. It's the way we all learn new growing techniques!

 

[Jon]

The questions make sense, though sativas and indicas also can have completely different nutrient requirements (assuming you're not in a living soil). And the scrog takes care of the vertical growth, but not the vertical stretch after flip. That's going to be where you might run into some trouble keeping the canopy flat if it's a stretchy sativa.

Also, if you run them side by side it doesn't mean they necessarily each get 50% of the net! You may need to give the sativa more room because of the node spacing.

But if you're not desperate for the absolute biggest harvest you can get, nothing wrong with trying things out. It's the way we all learn new growing techniques!

Truth be told, two things: 1. I DO want max yield, (lol) and 2. This is my second grow and first scrog attempt. I attached three pics from my first grow below. I have two 5x5s, but one has the same crappy blurples I used for my first grow (by necessity). I'm doing autos in that tent cuz I'm not willing to waste a photoperiod grow on blurples ever again. In the second tent (the one this discussion is based on) it is taller (7'11" with the extension piece) and it has a brand new LED (which I'm not allowed to name here). But suffice it to say it's top of the line and never gets further away from the canopy than 12" other than seedling/early veg, and it's a true 650 watts. It's a perfect light for a scrog. So based on what you said, it sounds like my best chance of highest yield is to stick to one strain in the "high end" 5x5 for this grow. Pick one of the three and grow it. That way I eliminate many variables that may be better left to after I get at least this second grow under my belt and maybe longer. I'm okay with that if that would be a suggestion. Then the question becomes Pineapple Upside Down Cake or Hulkberry? Have you grown either? Just from the genetics and research I did before buying the seeds it seems a safe bet that Hulkberry will give me a higher yield, all things being equal.

 

[Jon]

Truth be told, two things: 1. I DO want max yield, (lol) and 2. This is my second grow and first scrog attempt. I attached three pics from my first grow below. I have two 5x5s, but one has the same crappy blurples I used for my first grow (by necessity). I'm doing autos in that tent cuz I'm not willing to waste a photoperiod grow on blurples ever again. In the second tent (the one this discussion is based on) it is taller (7'11" with the extension piece) and it has a brand new LED (which I'm not allowed to name here). But suffice it to say it's top of the line and never gets further away from the canopy than 12" other than seedling/early veg, and it's a true 650 watts. It's a perfect light for a scrog. So based on what you said, it sounds like my best chance of highest yield is to stick to one strain in the "high end" 5x5 for this grow. Pick one of the three and grow it. That way I eliminate many variables that may be better left to after I get at least this second grow under my belt and maybe longer. I'm okay with that if that would be a suggestion. Then the question becomes Pineapple Upside Down Cake or Hulkberry? Have you grown either? Just from the genetics and research I did before buying the seeds it seems a safe bet that Hulkberry will give me a higher yield, all things being equal.

 

[InTheShed]

Looks like the blurple cranked out the frost so the new lights should do you even better!

Haven't grown either of those two so I can't offer any help there.

I would say the safe bet for a first time scrog would be to stick to one variety. It will eliminate a lot of moving parts that come with multiple varieties as well as the learning curve of filling the net. Knock that out of the park, fill the jars, and it gives you room to start playing around!

 

[Jon]

Looks like the blurple cranked out the frost so the new lights should do you even better!

Haven't grown either of those two so I can't offer any help there.

I would say the safe bet for a first time scrog would be to stick to one variety. It will eliminate a lot of moving parts that come with multiple varieties as well as the learning curve of filling the net. Knock that out of the park, fill the jars, and it gives you room to start playing around!

Thanks for your help man. I'm going to do a grow journal on here of both 5x5s. Shooting for a February 7th start. The auto tent is 3 Cinderella Jack and 1 Gorilla Zkittlez. Should be fun.

 

[InTheShed]

Drop a link here when you do!

 

[Jon]

Looks like the blurple cranked out the frost so the new lights should do you even better!

Haven't grown either of those two so I can't offer any help there.

I would say the safe bet for a first time scrog would be to stick to one variety. It will eliminate a lot of moving parts that come with multiple varieties as well as the learning curve of filling the net. Knock that out of the park, fill the jars, and it gives you room to start playing around!

BTW, that strain from grow one is Surfr Seeds version of Pineapple Upside Down Cake. It's Golden Pineapple x Wedding Cake F4. The Humboldt I'm growing this time is Pineapple Trainwreck x Cookie Monster. There should be a rule about naming different strains the same name.