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Quick Course In Cannabis Cross-Breeding & Genetics

SLHLover

Well-Known Member
Conradino! One of my favorite posters. Thanks for the additional clarity. I agree that males can contribute to potency. I’ve experienced it first hand. I’m sure SLHlover didn’t mean to imply that males are incapable of contributing to overall potency levels.
Maybe I should clarify what I said. Although males have identical (and sometimes higher) levels of CBDs than females, when choosing a male for a breeding program to create a new THC strain, the male's THC content is not really considered but it's growing structure/rigour is. The high % of THC in the strains we have developed most definitely comes from the female genetics and not the male (we have to be able to demonstrate genetic lineage before the strain is approved by the ministry of health for use by patients). We have been successeful with high CBD content males but for the high THC strains, the mother's THC profile is considered first.
 

Dude Stoneder

Active Member
Maybe I should clarify what I said. Although males have identical (and sometimes higher) levels of CBDs than females, when choosing a male for a breeding program to create a new THC strain, the male's THC content is not really considered but it's growing structure/rigour is. The high % of THC in the strains we have developed most definitely comes from the female genetics and not the male (we have to be able to demonstrate genetic lineage before the strain is approved by the ministry of health for use by patients). We have been successeful with high CBD content males but for the high THC strains, the mother's THC profile is considered first.
I get what you’re saying SLH lover. Good follow up. Have you ever seen the machines that check female THC levels used to check the THC levels of male plants? I’m curious to know if male plants were tested, would some males show much higher percentages of THC levels over other males from the same seed batch? But I get what you saying. You wouldn’t want to use a whimpy structured male plant even if it tested the highest in the group for THC.
But let’s suppose you had 4 males to choose from and they were all offering positive traits, like the ones you mentioned, vigorous and sturdy ect... wouldn’t it be advantageous to choose the male that tested highest for THC as well?
Thanks again for helping me connect the dots. ☮
 

conradino23

Grow Journal of the Year: 2017 - Grow Journal of the Month: Sept 2017
Maybe I should clarify what I said. Although males have identical (and sometimes higher) levels of CBDs than females, when choosing a male for a breeding program to create a new THC strain, the male's THC content is not really considered but it's growing structure/rigour is. The high % of THC in the strains we have developed most definitely comes from the female genetics and not the male (we have to be able to demonstrate genetic lineage before the strain is approved by the ministry of health for use by patients). We have been successeful with high CBD content males but for the high THC strains, the mother's THC profile is considered first.
Of course you should be looking into other traits to make a cross that makes sense. THC or CBD percentage are not so difficult, cause you’re looking mostly into finding these in P1 and once you have them then you just go and make F1 that’ll inherit that. It’s really CBG package that you’re looking into if you wanna has high production of either of these. With more lab work open for breeders you can take a plant in early veg and via PA select for high thc to cbd or cbd to thc ratio. You don’t even have to grow these plants.

Stairs start when you’re going for a certain complex aroma or resistance to stress or structure and then you’d like to stabilise these traits.
 

BakedPotatoe

New Member
Please can some 1 tell me how you intend to check a level of thc in a male plant considering its a female thing only.
Second of all it would come from the trait of the female it was breed from.
Male plants have zero thc as far as i know only traits nothing more..
Thc is a defensive thing from the plant,consider this if a cow come to eat a field of plants in or near full flowering what would happen it would get sick and pass out..
Would the cow come back to eat it after a bad reaction....
The answer is no,and it would be the smell that would be a reminder of it..
Now please some 1 tell me a smell of a male plant...
There is none..
 

Mr. Krip

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Please can some 1 tell me how you intend to check a level of thc in a male plant considering its a female thing only.
Second of all it would come from the trait of the female it was breed from.
Male plants have zero thc as far as i know only traits nothing more..
Thc is a defensive thing from the plant,consider this if a cow come to eat a field of plants in or near full flowering what would happen it would get sick and pass out..
Would the cow come back to eat it after a bad reaction....
The answer is no,and it would be the smell that would be a reminder of it..
Now please some 1 tell me a smell of a male plant...
There is none..
This is simply not correct. While males don't produce flowers they do have THC (in much lower levels than females!) and other cannabinoids in their leaves, stems and pollen sacs. During veg, males actually have a higher level of THC in their leaves than females. And, the males do smell! :Namaste:
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
You forgot to add "and animals love eating cannabis plants," lol. Ask just about anyone who has ever grown cannabis outdoors.
 

Mr. Krip

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
You forgot to add "and animals love eating cannabis plants," lol. Ask just about anyone who has ever grown cannabis outdoors.
Right! And, they wouldn't pass out from eating it since the THC-A hasn't been decarbed! ;)
 

Oldgrowth

Well-Known Member
Thank you so much Mr. Krip. Now I understand why so much attention gets paid to the seed producer's reputation and quality. It seems to have a lot to do with patience when stabilizing a strain and choosing quality over instant profit. I shall henceforth regard the good producers with the respect they have earned. At any point do you think genetic analysis will be a useful basis to assess one's product?
 

Oldgrowth

Well-Known Member
Per the animals observation TS and Mr. Krip: a long ago secret grow in VT was broused over a fence presumably by a deer. This taught me how topping can greatly increase yield. The deer enjoyed eating the weed and at that time I enjoyed eating deer (no longer) so it seemed a fair trade-off
 

Mr. Krip

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
At any point do you think genetic analysis will be a useful basis to assess one's product?
This is already being done by Phylos but Phylos has broken some promises to the public so I'd be careful about dealing with them. Try searching their "Galaxy"! ;)

PHYLOS

Per the animals observation TS and Mr. Krip: a long ago secret grow in VT was broused over a fence presumably by a deer. This taught me how topping can greatly increase yield. The deer enjoyed eating the weed and at that time I enjoyed eating deer (no longer) so it seemed a fair trade-off
Very fair trade-off! :high-five:
Plus, when you cooked the deer, it should have de-carbed any of that weed he ate, so... :19:
 
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TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
I used to eat a lot of deer meat. Always hated the taste and feeling like there was lard stuck to the roof of my mouth afterward (which was ironic, since it's lean meat, IIRC). But everyone and their brother kills the things, can only stand to eat so much of it, and no one wants to waste it, so I got a lot, raw, cooked, and preserved.

Old lady I know used to can a bunch every year in gravy. That was probably the least offensive way I've eaten it. Still had too drink a six-pack while eating a plate of it, though, and I never cared all that much for beer (wasn't flammable ;) ) even when alcohol was one of my drugs of choice.

But your can't beat the price of deer meat, and it's not like they're hard to kill. Plus, anything that will come right up to the flowers growing against the back wall four feet below an open window deserves to die before it has a chance to procreate, lol. You can just stand in the kitchen beside the window, shoot it with a quiet little .22LR, and it'll be dead before it even has a chance to jump.

Or... You know... So I have read.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
Best I ever had - and even I thought it was pretty good - was reindeer. The husband of the lady who used to bring me canned deer got to go hunt in... I forget which country, northerly, cold, and not Canada is all I can remember. Maybe one of the " 'land" ones? IDK.

Beef from my late aunt's cows still ranks as the tastiest meat I've ever eaten, though.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
I thought I’d copy and paste one of Grizzwald’s copy/paste posts over to here.

QUOTE="GrizzWald, post: 4514900, member


Criteria Shantibaba uses for SELECTING MALE PLANTS
1. Resin Production and Potency – the quickness, the amount and where it is being produced will all be factors. An eye glass will be the most accurate means to view this trait.
2. Aroma – if there is a distinct aroma or something interesting to the nose.
3. Quickness to flower and release of pollen maturation and speed to reach pollen dispersal.
4. Internode spacing – based on the Fibonacci ratio of 1:1.6, this ratio is used in many applications, one of which is a rating of beauty and another in stability and consistency of some genetic factors in a plants makeup.
5. Leaf structure and Stature – whether it is more leaning to sativa or indica and how the plant grows in visible structure.
6. Resistance to hermaphrodism – no visible signs that the male flower has any naturally occurring female pistilates combined within the male flower.
7. Vigor and fitness – visible factors that show the plant to behave in a healthy normal growth pattern.
8. Depth of coloration – of the plant from lime green to deep dark green (ornamental trait)

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Taken from the MNS article on hobby breeding by Shanti...

The importance of selecting plants for the traits that are useful to the breeder/grower is the main reason genetics have evolved as they have. Male plants of this species need to be carefully selected to avoid a lot of laborious work, which means one will need to do a lot of testing of F1 seed made from a particular male to verify if the sex linked traits are real or not. Males that auto flower irrespective of daylight hours are normally eliminated to insure against hermaphroditism or unwanted male traits. Males that flower too quickly or too tall are also not the best for breeding since they put too much energy into fiber production which is not the trait one is looking for in a medicinal plant. Males that have large hollow main stems are sought out rather than males that are more pith-filled stems - the main reason are that large hollow stemmed males are better THC producers than other plants. Males that produce tight floral clusters rather than airy sparse floral clusters are usually better to breed with. Finally if you rub your fingers against the stem of a developing male and are able to get strong odors or aromas (terpines) you will be advised to use these males as trichrome production and flavor are directly related to plants that produce odors early on. There are several other traits to look for in a male but these are rather advanced and need microscope help which is not really relevant for the hobby grower/breeder.



Caribou aka Canadian reindeer was a mainstay for me as a kid. It’s very good. We all used to find a lot of worms and parasites in caribou meat if we looked closely, so we tried not to look.
Now I moved further south and live off blacktail deer. No gaminess there- it’s superior to meat from the store in every way.
 
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Mr. Krip

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Males that have large hollow main stems are sought out rather than males that are more pith-filled stems - the main reason are that large hollow stemmed males are better THC producers than other plants.
This is interesting to me! :hmmmm: (see my post below on "Pith Autolyses")

I wish i knew how to tell if the main stem is hollow without cutting the plant? I gues theres no way?
You can just top the plant or one of the main colas.

That being said, this condition is called "Pith Autolyses" and following is a post I made back in 2016 in response to someone who said they believed the hollow stems were a sign of better nutrient intake. I'm not sure I understand why it would be better to use that as a criteria for selecting males, but perhaps it may also be an indication of some "higher plant metabolism", or something?

The hollow stems are normal and fairly common with MMJ. As I understand it, it's not necessarily a sign of good nute intake, though.

The area that's hollow is where the "pith" would normally be. The pith is the soft, spongy center in the middle of plant stalks where carbon is stored. When the pith starts to disappear, it's called "Pith Autolysis" and, while it does NOT indicate any real problems with the plant, I don't believe it's because of good nute intake.

What it does indicate is that the plant needed more carbon, so it started to feed on its own carbon reserves.

Some plants are genetically prone to have a hollow pith and other reasons can include plants that are grown in low light conditions, low CO2 conditions, and fast-growing/leggy plants can also be more prone.

So, for example, if the growroom is packed with plants, there may not be enough CO2 for all of them because they're all sucking it all out of the air. So, because there's not enough CO2, there's not enough carbon, and because there's not enough carbon, the plant will start feeding on it's own carbon reserves in the pith.

Low light conditions effect the plants ability to photosynthesize, so even if there's enough CO2, they won't be able to break it down, resulting in the same feeding on it's own carbon reserves.

It does not indicate any problems, per se, just a sign that the plant was feeding on its own carbon reserves.

I hope that helps!

:Namaste:

EDIT: I should add that flowering plants use lots of carbon to help form those buds, so its also much more common in flowering plants! ;)
 

Oldgrowth

Well-Known Member
This thread that I love reminds me of counterpoint in music with 2 themes blending together so nicely. In that spirit: a recent conversation got me to investigate Yak meat, described as sweet, juicy, succulent better than beef. With deer, even white tail, no contest. (The only local Yak that are not prohibitively expensive to sample are safe and sound in the local zoo.)
 

MaddHacker

Well-Known Member
Damn Krip, I didn't even see this in your sig... I am moving onto breeding now, with a botany minor from online school Getting kinda tired of growing.. Cannabis field since legalization has become saturated with, well never mind on that.. Will continue this fall, and I never knew you were a breeder.. Huh... Gonna follow this and ask questions if you don't mind.. I am no longer gonna grow for any other reason other than educational purposes.. Second year botany (advanced) so I can use all the outside lab help I can get..
 

Mr. Krip

Grow Journalist
420 Staff
Damn Krip, I didn't even see this in your sig... I am moving onto breeding now, with a botany minor from online school Getting kinda tired of growing.. Cannabis field since legalization has become saturated with, well never mind on that.. Will continue this fall, and I never knew you were a breeder.. Huh... Gonna follow this and ask questions if you don't mind.. I am no longer gonna grow for any other reason other than educational purposes.. Second year botany (advanced) so I can use all the outside lab help I can get..
Just to clarify, I'm not a breeder! I just have enough knowledge on the subject to be "dangerous", so to speak! :laugh:
I'm about to start my first round of crosses in the next couple of weeks using a variation of the Bonsai Sultan Method (link also in sig!) but I imagine I'll be breeding for sometime before I actually consider myself a "breeder"! ;)
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
I was told once that hollow stems could be the result of a mild, but prolonged, nutrient deficiency. Calcium, iirc, but I can't swear to it at this point in time. Cannot say whether it's true, either.
 
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