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RageMonkey's Phototron - White Widow

RageMonkey

New Member
I rinsed the underside. I also inspected them with a 30x jewelers loop. I didn't see any mites. It might just be the progression of some damage to the leaves from the earlier problems. The new leaves don't apear to have this problem as of yet.

Photos were uploaded. I got some closeups of the spots. I'm not so sure this is mite damage. The affected leaves all have spots in the same places. It's almost as if the damage was done earlier and now those damaged portions are just more visible. Anyway, I'll contune inspecting them and spraying the leaves down until tomorrow just in case.

Anyway, as soon as the photos are approved I'll post them to this thread. Maybe someone can recoginze what this problem is. =)
 

HHGreenHand

New Member
Understand though; the yellowing can be a sign of eggs. A single spider mite lays multiple eggs. They are far from what you could see with a jewlers lense, from what i know. They suck nutes out of the leaf where they are laid. The mites themselves are near visible and red in color.
 

RageMonkey

New Member
Here are the plants:

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You can see the spots here on the plant from the left.

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Here are some closeups of a couple affected leaf sets.

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RageMonkey

New Member
The new growth is fine. The yellow spots seem limited to the leaf mass that was present a week ago. I'll have to watch this plant to see if more yellow spots show up on the new growth. It's possible it could just e old heat damage, nute burn, etc.

BTW, I'll be travelling for the next two weeks, starting tomorrow. I found a novel way to keep the phototron a little cooler. The average temperature has been creeping up since we had a couple hot days here. So, I put a 24" box fan on top of the unit and secured it with packing tape. When the fan is running on the lowest speeds it draws enough air in from the bottom and out the top to lower the average soil temperature from 88 F to about 85 F. If I run the fan on the highest speed, it keeps the temperature around 81 F. This should keep the temperature from frying these plants while I'm away. Hopefully, when I return there will be a couple nice bushy plants waiting for me.
 

GanjaMan417

New Member
new growth definatly looks a lot better, already looking like some pretty nice plants :allgood: 2 weeks from now.. theres going to be a pretty big difference :smokin3:
 

RageMonkey

New Member
The stem looks really nice and thick on the one with the spots. I have high hopes for this one. =)

I think i have everything covered with these. They are pretty low maintenance with this setup. When I go, I'll leave a couple windows open to vent the air place so it doesn't get too stale.

That box fan rocks. It looks ghetto laying flat on the top of the phototron, but it pretty much guarrantees that the lights won't send the temp over 90 while I'm gone.
 

Urdedpal

New Member
One of the reasons that we keep plants seperate from each other is what if one plant is male and one is female? If you have one of each, what will you do now? Remove the male and leave its roots with the female plant? Try to seperate the roots? Should have used a divider. If it happens and you do have one of each sex, remove the top half of the tap root only because you don't want to mess with the roots during flower.
Everything else looks great but the plants look a lil over watered and under nourished with nutes. The light green color of your plants show the lack of nutes and the way your leaves tend to drip downward at the end show overwatering. Just trying to help and definately not trying to offend.:peace:
 

RageMonkey

New Member
One of the reasons that we keep plants seperate from each other is what if one plant is male and one is female? If you have one of each, what will you do now? Remove the male and leave its roots with the female plant? Try to seperate the roots? Should have used a divider. If it happens and you do have one of each sex, remove the top half of the tap root only because you don't want to mess with the roots during flower.
Everything else looks great but the plants look a lil over watered and under nourished with nutes. The light green color of your plants show the lack of nutes and the way your leaves tend to drip downward at the end show overwatering. Just trying to help and definately not trying to offend.:peace:

No offense taken. I appreciate the conversation. Some very good questions and suggestions there. Anyway, I figure I have a 75% chance of getting at least 1 female. I was thinking that if 1 is a male, I would cut the plant off at the base. Should I go lower and remove a portion of the root tip? I didn't think I'd have to go that deep.

Also, these plants are drooping because I took these pictures about 2 min after I misted the plants. I have been trying keep the humidity between 25 - 40% for the past couple days because I suspected a mite problem. Within 2 hours of misting, the leaves are all up on both plants. The drip irrigation system provides 300 cc's of water daily (about 10 ounces). This is probably a bit on the high side for a 12" pot, but I do lose alot of water to evaporation from the soil. The surface of the soil generally feels damp and crumbles easily. It doesn't feel soggy or compressed. Next time I do a grow, I will use foxfarm and perlite. I may also consider a small clay pellet based hydroponics setup. Unfortunately there is not much room for getting stuff in and out of the phototron. The opening is only 10" wide on the sides with the largest panels. One thing that sucks about these phototrons is that you can't get things in and out of them easily and there is no option to completely disassemble it. To get that pot out, I have to crush the sides in about 2 inches to pull it through the side panel. For this grow, I figured I'd stick with dirt since it's a little more stable easier to stabilize than a hydro solution. I just need to do a soil pH one in a while, not check pH daily and make ocnstant adjustments.

BTW, those plants are not that light in color even though they may apear so in the photos. The reason being that before I post them, I process them in photoshop where I adjust the levels, rotate, and resize them before upload. The levels adjustment is required because the grow lights really overpower the camera. It's makes the pictures nice and bright, but it does add a little extra white balance in reducing contrast. It makes them look a little pale.

At this point I'm avoiding giving them fertilizer since I just transplanted them from two solo cups to about 10 times the volume of MG potting soil. While a good portion of the nutes in the soil from the solo cups is likely depleted, the new soil added to the pot should be pretty hot. I did give a 2-4-2 root stimulator when I did the transplant and they have had one application of 1/4th dilution 10-10-10 general purpose fertilizer in the past week.

:hmmmm:

Anyway, I'm off to to europe tonight. If I get bored during the week I may shoot over to Amsterdam for a couple days. =) I'll have updates when I get back in about 11 days. Wish me luck! I'm hoping these plants don't turn to the darkside while I'm gone. =)

BTW, I tossed a Northern Lights and a NL x Big Bud seed in there about 2mm under the soil in the front and on the right. They will be about 2/3 weeks behind the other plants, but I'd like to see if the changes I've made to the environment are conducive to starting seeds. I figured since I'm gone for the next 11 days, it means I don't have to sit around staring at them impatiently. So, maybe we'll see 4 when I get back.
 

sillyputty

New Member
I'm going to jump in here and make some comments about the phototron that are based on owning two of them (early models while DeMarco was still in charge). There has been much controversy about 'trons,' most of it negative. The common complaint is the fluorescent lights are not powerful enough to grow decent bud. This is TRUE! Most anyone who's tried growing buds in a tron get small, stringy buds and have switched to H.I. lights. It's the same as if you tried growing buds in a closet with fluorescents, the vegetative grow is fine, but there's not enough light intensity for budding.

With that said, here's what I found to be the advantages of the tron. I didn't believe it at first when it was claimed that the leaf material is as potent as bud, but I found it to be true! The leaf looks like regular leaf, but packs a punch! As good as green bud. I've smoked leaf joints with friends and they couldn't get past a half joint because it was so strong.

I don't know how this is accomplished, but I suspect it's a combination of the design, growing medium (sterilized spagnum moss), distilled water and the nutrients that come with the phototron. That's why it's important to use the tron as a package: follow the instructions and use the germination/soil/nutrients/lights that come with the unit, or can they be ordered separately. I'll be interested to see the results of the OP, but the leafs are already showing nutrient deficiencies. Either that or pest infestation. I had no signs of pests or deficiencies with my trons.

The second advantage is the power use is low, much less than H.I. lights, so your electricity bills don't go sky high. Also, the tron is self-ventilating, so when used with the original parts it will not overheat, unless there's no ventilation at all in the grow room. No fans are necessary.
 
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RageMonkey

New Member
If you are in the states, try craigslist. There are plenty of them on craigslist in different cities with the highest concentration in California.

If you are lucky you can find a nice Phototron 8 or 9 for $200 USD or less with a few accessories.

Regarding the phototron in the flowering stage, I suspect you are right since the lights in the phototron are heavy into the blue spectrum with almost no reds. I'm going to be swapping out the blue led spot for an ultra red led spot in 660 - 680nm range when this goes to flower. I'm hoping this adds enoughr eds to make the yield a bit better.
 

RageMonkey

New Member
Ok, I'm back from my trip and was pleasantly surprised with an obscene, rediculous amount of growth. As a bonus there is also a 6" tall NL sprout with about 6 - 8 leaves! yeeha. I did cut the drip irrigation system back 10ml/dripper. The two plants were looking a little droopy. i would like to take the opportunity to dry them out a bit and see if I can get them pointing fierely up.

When I opened the door I was hit with the light skunky odor. I wasn't expecting that since I left windows open for the last 10 days. My carbon filter device is here, so I will get that deployed this weekend.

I also started the laborious task of taping think aluminum foil to the exterior of each panel on the phototron. The main goal is to reduce the ambient light coming from the box, so it doesn't look like aliens are landing in my closet. As a secondary benefit this will greatly eliminate the possibility of ligth sneaking into my box when I got to bloom in a few weeks.

I also decided to suspend a line accross the top of the box and now both the red and blue LED spot lamps are running. I figure it's time to strat adding a little more reds.

I will put new photos up tomorrow. =)
 

RageMonkey

New Member
Sorry about the delay in the pics. I've seen to have lost the cable that attaches my camera to my coimputer. I've ordered a new one. It should be here shortly. In the mean time, I have some bad news to report. When i got back, the plants had grown considerably but the leaves were wilting a bit and the new growth was very light in color. For the first time, I added a cup of heavily diluted 10-10-10 and now the larger leaves ont he largest plant are showing moderate signs of nutrient burn. About 2mm of every leaf is dried along with the saw teeth ont he sides of the major leaves. No worries. I doubt tnhis will be the end of these plants. Int he eman time, I will keep watering with plain water until they come back a bit.

Pictures to come soon.
 

RageMonkey

New Member
Ok, I'm back from another trip abroad. I uploaded photos from today. The tallest plant is 2' tall and has a stem the thickness of my pinky.

The tallest plant had some dead leaves when i got back and the tips were starting to dry. It looks like this plant requires more water so I added another drip emitter that will drip next to the stem and moved the dial on the irrigation system to the top notch. I'm planning to start flowering next week. This should last 8 or 9 weeks. I'm crossing my fingers that I get a female.

I'm a little frustrated with all this dirt nonsense. So, I have already built a deep water culture setup that fits inside the phototron. It's a modified 3 gallon black plastic pail with a 6" net basket lid and hydroton. I'll be running this with a silent air X5 pump and 2 x 48" flexible air wands. This should turn it into a marijuana jacuzzi. I also have a cloning setup with tray, dome, seedling mat, and rockwool cubes. In 2 months when I harvest, I'll be taking clones and next we'll try the phototron setup with a bubbler bucket. It should be pretty slick. i picked up some sensi A/B nutrients and a basic phup/down solution. Only thing left to get is a digital ph meter.
 

RageMonkey

New Member
Hee's the photos:

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Yeah, I'm definitely taking clones right before harvest. I'll need to grab a 2' fluorescant to cover my tray/dome. Do you thiunk it would be bad to start taking clones 1 month into flowering? This would give me a 1 month jump by having some ready for transplant when the rest go to harvest.
 

RageMonkey

New Member
BTW, they say you can grow up to 5 plants int his phototron at the same time. That is pretty much bullshit. Even with 2 and a seedling it's pretty obvious that they eventually crowd each other out leaving one large one.

It's also a bit anoying how you have to constantly train the leaves away from the lights. The vertical lighting alows for more dense plants, but they really stretch sideways. The only way to counter the stretch is to prune the tips.

When I try the bubble bucket, I'm going to run 1 plant at a time and see if I can get a dense column by pruning every other side shoot.
 
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