Ready to quit growing due to low quality & smell

[ChefDGreen]

What I’m talking about isn’t “my way.” It’s proper soilless growing methodology. You need to be refreshing the full range of nutrients as well as flushing whatever was still there. Let’s say you’ve got a basket with 5 apples, 5 oranges, and 5 pears. If your friends (plant) eats all the apples and oranges but there are 3 pears left over, and you keep adding to it.. eventually there will only be left over pears with no space for apples and oranges. A lot of times if it’s severe, that will effect plant health.. in your case it could just be effecting metabolization of secondary compounds.

thing about 20% run off is that with that amount you can be sure you’re actually flushing the old salts(pears) out.

you honestly don’t need to be too worried about honing in exact temp and rH.. as long as it’s suitable enough your plants will adjust.


With the microbes, your plant doesn’t need help up taking nutrients efficienctly.. your nutrients aren’t bound to anything making them insoluble. They are literally water soluble already and ready to go strain into the plants. With organic soil what you have is insoluble nutrients that need to be unlocked and then transported into the roots... thus the need for microbes.. you’re mixing up your methodologies and at the very least making your life more complicated than need be. At worst you’re wasting your money.

Have you ever rubbed your fingers on the sugar leaves then smelled your fingers? That’s how I get a true sense of how my plants smell in flower.

 

[SauronBlue]

thing about 20% run off is that with that amount you can be sure you’re actually flushing the old salts(pears) out.

Have you ever rubbed your fingers on the sugar leaves then smelled your fingers? That’s how I get a true sense of how my plants smell in flower.

Okay, I can't lose much by trying it. I just don't see that a small difference should make such a drastic change. It's not even like I don't get runoff, just not 20% of what I pour in. AND, as I keep saying, I give plain water every 3rd watering, which has to then reduce whatever salts or apples or whatever's left in the soil somewhat, right?

And even when i squeeze the buds and smell my fingers, the smell is nice, but not strong, that's the whole problem. When I first started, I bought tubs of Ona gel, a sick carbon filter, and all kinds of air fresheners. I never needed them. Even when I trim, I have one glade auto sprayer set to go off every 20-30 min, and that covers the smell from trimming the plants in the parlor. I want to grow stinky plants, those are usually the strong ones

 

[ChefDGreen]

Have you grown different strains? That could be part of it

 

[BeanTownFan420]

Some strains have low odor in fact @ChefDGreen is thinking about what to grow next and is taking a vote one of the strains on his list is White Og yes I voted for it. It is known for having low to no odor or taste but is considered as some of the best cannabis.

 

[ChefDGreen]

Yes please! @SauronBlue head over to my thread (link in sig) and vote for 3 of these 12 strains!

Alright so here are the options;
1. Killer A5 Haze
2. Grandpa Glue
3. Grandpa Punch (GluexPP)
4. Bubba Hash
5. Jellium
6. Jellium x Peyote WiFi
7. The White OG
8. Xanadu
9. Chem Angel (Sour AngelxChemdog)
10. Amherst Sour Diesel
11. Chemdog
12. Garlic Sherbet

 

[SauronBlue]

Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend anything I've grown, but I think it's me. If I'd come across something with no smell, but packing a punch, I'd hold onto that. I tried water curing, thinking it might have that effect, but since all the bud was weak to start with, it wasn't a great test of the method.

I'm a bit doubtful that just watering a bit more will make a big difference in my results, but I'm giving it a try. I'm in week 7(of an expected 10), so I did the "6 week flush", and gave them about 3x the normal watering. All the extra water is only such a pain bc I have to soak up all the excess with a rag squeezed into a bucket. The worst was when I had to stop to get up the runoff bc it was so full that some of the pots were sitting in it, then go back to watering, knowing that they're already past full, and every drop I pour is gonna have to be soaked back up by hand. I ordered another pump that I can use inline, so I'll have to get some tubing/pvc to set that up for draining these trays. I only wish I could follow that one suggestion to keep it simple. Every step of this search for quality has been complication on top of complexity, to try to get this stuff to grow right. It's an amazing and beautiful plant that grows like a weed, but to grow it RIGHT? Hell, I wish that was simple.

Meanwhile, my veg area is screaming to be put into flower. By the time my flower room is ready to eject the current crop, the youngsters will all be at least a foot taller than I want them. Besides that, my mothers are full of amazingly bushy clones right now, but they need to wait at least a month before I can start cloning anything, or I'll be right back in the same situation. I've got some autos to try out, whenever I get some room. I have a buddy who only grows autos, just throws them in a tent in his basement that's over 90° with some blurple lights and no fans, and he swears he gets killer bud outta there in 8 weeks. I've gotta see if there's something to that. Everyone seems to have the killer but me lol

I love how the Cheeselicious buds stack up and get super hard

The fuzziness of the Purple Diesel Daze makes me think it needs more time than the cheese. The buds are mostly bigger than the cheese, and they are dense inside, but those pistils just reach out in search of something

These night shots were from lights off after I flushed them

 

[The Celt]

Those girls look great @SauronBlue and it baffles me that a girl looking that sweet would be odorless and not pack a decent punch unless it is genetics.

 

[TallGuyWithTheFood]

my 2cents.
The proof is eventually in the pudding. Proper cure, dry, trim all go towards the recipe of good smoke. My stuff smells great on the plant, good for 5 days of drying then goes silent. Only afyer a month of curing does everything come back, times 4!!
Trim as much leaf as you can, and have patience,

 

[SauronBlue]

Those girls look great @SauronBlue and it baffles me that a girl looking that sweet would be odorless and not pack a decent punch unless it is genetics.

Thanks! How can I tell if it's genetics? I've grown a few different strains recently, including ones that I got from my buddy with the autos. He gave them to me when he realized that they were photoperiod, bc he doesn't want the hassle. I, on the other hand, like being able to clone and control when veg ends. He seems hapy with his genetics. Of several people that I know who grow, I'm the only one who seems to struggle with quality, unless they're all just lying to look good. It makes me crazy that I spend more time, more money, and do more research than them, but can't get the same results- especially now that I can't think of anything else to improve and it looks great from seed to smoke. All the seeds I buy come from a huge and very popular seed bank from overseas.

 

[SauronBlue]

my 2cents.
The proof is eventually in the pudding. Proper cure, dry, trim all go towards the recipe of good smoke. My stuff smells great on the plant, good for 5 days of drying then goes silent. Only afyer a month of curing does everything come back, times 4!!
Trim as much leaf as you can, and have patience,

This is why I feel my issue is not necessarily with the cure. I have very faint smell during the grow. The plants you see pics of smell very nice when you squeeze a bud and sniff ur fingers, but it's not a STRONG smell. The room doesn't smell, all thru flower. I've even had my old roommate over to look at the grow that I was excited to chop, and he commented that he thought it would smell a lot more, but that's good to keep it stealthy. I've gotta hold a bud right up to my nose and sniff deep to get the smell, whether it's on the plant, hung to dry or curing in a bucket. How do I make them stink before I even chop them down?

 

[The Celt]

Really not sure how to help you mate, my nose have never been great except for smells that I find obnoxious and having always liked the smell of weed growing, as well as, having grown steadily indoors for the past 5/6 years, I’ve become somewhat nose blind to the smell.

But, as you mentioned, when I put my nose into the flower, or rub the bud and smell my fingers, I then get a sense of the smell. Most times I would describe it as sweet/sour & fruity/lemon/pine but not much else. On the rare occasion, I will come across a plant that gives me something different, like DDA or the Pineapple Chunk pheno I had. Then I can smell like a sour grape with the DDA or something I would describe as a sour tropical smell (and taste) for the PC.

 

[JollyRodger]

If those are your buds in those pictures and you can’t smell them, you need to get your nose checked. There’s no way those don’t stink. I’m guessing you’re running a good filter and that’s taking care of the smell during the grow. On your next chop, do your trimming and leave your house for an hour or so. You should know if it smells when you return. If I trim outside of my grow room without the fan/filter, my entire house will reak.

 

[ChefDGreen]

That last photo looks like some sticky icky. Are you positive you’re not losing your sense of smell?


@SauronBlue I’m not sure if you’ve read this, but if you have not... it is absolutely vital to growing cannabis in pots.

The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant

The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant Also covered: the importance of pH and why we successively up-pot How to Water Over the last several years I have put a lot of study into this, and I feel that I can now define the proper way to water a potted plant. Keep in mind that this discussion...

www.420magazine.com

You said you’re using GreenLeaf one part Nutrient? You mean Megacrop?

in soilless, (coco especially) it’s very bad to not saturate the entire pot with a solution that’s too heavy a couple times, then add fresh water. it makes a very inconsistent root zone that’s just asking for all kinds of issues. If I were you, I’d drop down on the MC and I’d give it with every watering, again making sure to saturate with substantial run off. What you’re shooting for is a root zone that is consistent in nutrients throughout.

 

[SauronBlue]

That last photo looks like some sticky icky. Are you positive you’re not losing your sense of smell?


@SauronBlue I’m not sure if you’ve read this, but if you have not... it is absolutely vital to growing cannabis in pots.

You said you’re using GreenLeaf one part Nutrient? You mean Megacrop?

in soilless, (coco especially) it’s very bad to not saturate the entire pot with a solution that’s too heavy a couple times, then add fresh water. it makes a very inconsistent root zone that’s just asking for all kinds of issues.

I just spend a bunch of time in there, watering and propping up buds that are way too heavy for their stems. The only time I smell anything is when I try. I do get that lights off, chlorophyll smell.

Yes, Megacrop is my main nute, I'm running a comparison with new millenium rn, I have Advanced, but I think I'm gonna try humboldt's secret before I try anything else.

I've read that and try to basically follow it, but how closely do people really follow that? I only started adding a plain water run every few feedings after having this issue, and seeing that many other growers seem to do this. What precisely is the issue with this?
I see youtube growers that are running successful commercial grows that just flood their coco like crazy every day - no dry cycle, no slowly allowing for lateral absorption, done in like 30 seconds a plant. Then you've got the very commercially popular drip irrigation, which cannot cycle around the plant, moving silt from the root ball out, then back in. There's a dozen different ways to deliver nutes to media that ppl swear by, that don't follow that procedure; spayers, emitters, those little carrots that keep the soil moist thru osmosis and syphon, flood and drain, etc. And that's if you are using a different style altogether, but I'm sure plenty are watering in this style, but just not willing to be so meticulous. Are they all going to fail if they don't do this? How can I be doing it so wrong that I have a problem that literally no one else has?
Like I said before, I water slowly, making sure to get the edges, the whole plant. I hit one lightly, then move on to allow it to absorb outwards, not just down. I generally go over the whole surface to get it started, making sure all gets wet, but nothing pools. Once it's a bit wet, I make sure to get the edges, make sure they are wet and soil isn't coming away from the pot. I go around 2-3x, watering evenly until I start to see runoff, usually about 5-10%, not 20. I think that's a pretty damn good job, and it takes me about an hour just to water the bloom area. I try to use the best practices that I uncover, even though I have literally NEVER seen anyone in person or on the probably hundred youtube vidoes of successful growers, dispensaries, grow houses, outdoor in California - ANYWHERE use that procedure to the letter. But they all grow bomb bud. It just doesn't make sense that it's so difficult for me
My greatest source of frustration, thru my journey of learning to grow cannabis has been the wildly variant, contradictory and tribal beliefs and techniques. What one person who's been growing 15 years says is absolutely vital, the next tells you is insane and will ruin your whole crop. It's like the same thing as politics these days, there's basically no middle ground, and no tolerance for what the other guy likes. There's also very little data, and lots of opinion; meaning, ppl don't usually give detailed info about what processes are meant to be affected, what macro/micro nutrients are involved in the issue, the signs it should show upon manifestation or alleviation. There's little science and much conjuncture. We don't generally learn this from a university, but by copying others and trial-and-error, which means we don't really know WHY things happen, just that when we personally tried a, it worked, while b didn't. And when you factor in that every grow has dozens of variables that can change things, from soil composition, water, nutes, supplements, light type, VPD, strain, training, pots, and on and on, do many really have good experience with a wide range of different settings? Makes me feel like there's no hope that anyone will be able to help me


I got the pump, and tried to suck up the runoff like a straw (I didn't have the tubing for the intake yet, but I figure it must work the same way using the barbs, just shorter, and since I hadn't had time to go shopping, I tried to make it work). Turns out that even though the pump looks like it'll just suck up from the intake hose like a straw, it needs the water to get all the way to the pump to create any suction. As long as the pump is in air, or even mostly air, it can't create pressure, so nothing happens. The good thing is that once it starts, it will suck up the water until the vacuum is broken. All this means that it was still a big pain to drain with the pump, I had to slosh the water around or add more from another tray, in order to get the pump submerged to get it started. Once it was going, I could tip it up and get most of the water, but once it gets low and grabs some air, it dumps out what it has, and I've gotta mop it up with rags. It's not like using a shop-vac, and just chasing the water until it's up, this always leaves a layer of liquid. Speaking of shop-vac, I bought one of those, but it is incredibly noisy, and pops my fuses like bubblegum, which does not really help me keep stealthy. Especially if I put it under a load, like lifting water, it cranks up the amps, and trips the breaker.

 

[SauronBlue]

If those are your buds in those pictures and you can’t smell them, you need to get your nose checked. There’s no way those don’t stink. I’m guessing you’re running a good filter and that’s taking care of the smell during the grow. On your next chop, do your trimming and leave your house for an hour or so. You should know if it smells when you return. If I trim outside of my grow room without the fan/filter, my entire house will reak.

I wish I could give u a bud to try or let you come in the garden. My nose works for everything else; from smelling the bud I've bought, to smelling the rain out my window last night, to the wave of chlorophyll that comes off of either veg or bloom just after lights out. The only thing I can't smell is the funk of my buds

 

[SauronBlue]

So, I went to ask at a couple grow stores, they seem to think it has to be genetics. If I'm not having visible deficiencies, the buds are not too young or airy, then they should pack some smell. Even if they're not that strong of smoke, they should smell somewhat. One guy said that Attitude seeds was the spot in the 90's, but now they can't get anything as good as local breeders bc the breeders don't have enough supply to bother with big seed banks - they sell out in limited batches. He wanted me to buy a pack of seeds for 200-$500, saying that it's a good deal bc there's 20-50 seeds and I can pheno hunt. I don't want to put out that much, and I don't want to pheno hunt. I just want something that I can be sure is decent, and start growing some quality, so I can renew my excitement before investing even more. He also wanted me to upgrade my 1600 uMol lights to get 2000uMol lights, stuff that I feel isn't a game changer, just an upgrade. I feel like my issue call for a major change, not just a small tweak.
So, a buddy that I'd been buying from for years, without knowing he grew, offered me a couple clones of what he swears by, so I figure that can alleviate some of my genetics concerns. He also gave me a whole script of how he wants me to grow them. He wanted me to upgrade to 10gal buckets and change my LEDs to HPS, but said that it's not absolutely necessary. He gave me the list of what nutes he uses and what amounts, but the main thing that seems to be different is he only wants me to water once a week. Screw it if the soil dries up until it's hard and pulling away from the pot, let them search for the water each time. Seems a bit extreme, but maybe a big change can make a big difference, idk. I just wish it didn't takes months of waiting to see if your changes have helped or hurt. My mother plants look like weeping willows after maybe 3 days, so idk how my plants can go 7 days on one drink, but really, what is there to lose? I've yet to see one get so dry that it doesn't come back to life when watered, so maybe he's onto something (now, OVERwatering, on the other hand...). I figure I'll finish the current crop with the extra water, then the next crop will be divided into different styles as a comparison, while I chop his 2 clones into more for the run after that.

Can you guess which could grow buds?

 

[JollyRodger]

If it’s not genetics it’s nutrients. It seems your environment is dialed in. I’ve not used the megacrop, so I can’t speak to that. I use Jacks, and pretty sure it’s essentially the same stuff. Your buddy has a point for watering as long as it’s during veg. I grow in coco, and Contrary to popular belief, I only water when the pot is dry during the veg cycle. Once it’s flower time I water at least once a day to start and up that to 2 or 3 times as flower progresses. I shoot for maybe 10% runoff.

 

[ChefDGreen]

So, it’s odd. I say 10-20% run off, but there’s a phenomenon that happens. If you go slow, when your medium is saturated you’ll notice that out of no where, the pot starts to give solid run off flow from all directions. When I see that, I give another quart (or two or three if you’re running 7s or bigger) and I call it good.

You absolutely must let the pots go very dry(and light). Yes they will survive extreme cases like looking like a wilty willow -I, Myself, just watered a few willowy clones - but it’s best not to let it get there. They will grow faster and more vigorously with less issues to correct in the future. But as I said before, dry pots are a must.

did you read the stickied article by @Emilya about watering container plants that I posted a link to? It’s far more in-depth than “just water once a week.” It also explains flower cycle watering.

Oh yeah... and don’t buy anything from that grow store guy! He’s just being a sleazy sales man!!!

 

[Noone32]

I would suggest a many stage approach which helped me with the same issues:
1) Get good genetics. (Easier said than done)
2) Dump the LED’s and go with MH/HPS unless the genetics you are growing were SOG selected under LED for a few generations.
3) Keep temperatures cooler than 25c and make sure the plants eat up all the nutrients and fade before chopping and also have the cloudy or cloudy/amber tricome development you want.
4) 48 hours of darkness before cutting and cut at around the same time lights normally come on. (This made a big difference in terpenoids for me because all of the plants I had so far smell most before right before lights on time) For all following stages keep the temperatures cooler than 25c and everything stored in complete dark. 18-20c is optimal to keep some smells that people aren’t used to smelling in a plant- little warning - a juicy fruit gum smelling plant may not be desirable to all.
5) Chop the entire plant a few inches up from the base and leave the stocks/roots in the ground in case you need them later. (For curing)
6) Don’t wet trim, just hang the entire plant to dry even with all the fan leaves left on.
7) Delay drying time and don’t circulate air. Just strictly monitor humidity. If you live in a dry climate try a large cardboard box but make sure humidity don’t go high enough to cause mold. I like 70-75% for the first couple days and will never let it go lower than 65.
8) After a week or so trim and cure them in a glass jar or a turkey bag if you have a lot. I don’t like hearing the snap when I bend because usually my buds are too dry at that point to get real good cure. I like to see a good sweat the first day in the jar if it goes to 80% I am happy. Burp and check buds daily for sure I let them dry until the outside isn’t damp and put them back in the jars at this stage. But if it drys out too much before cure it is hard to get rid of the hay smell.
9) If it’s too dry after your first day in cure like around 55%. Go chop off an inch of that stump remaining and throw it into the jar to rehydrate your buds to kick start the cure. This is something I never read anywhere but it worked perfectly for me when I was working too much to get a trim done. It took about 6 hours to make the buds nice and damp like they weren’t dried enough.
10) Skip the Bodeva packs entirely or at least until you are at least a few weeks into you cure and you are done with your daily burping. I just put a hygrometer in every jar and never need the packs. Jars are always sitting around 62-65%.

This may not work well if you’re in a humid environment but hopefully something is helpful. If it don’t help with the smells from the crapshoot genetics going around at least you will have the smoothest smoke around.

 

[Mila17]

I’d run those Cookies Kush or Purple Wreck. Top of the list from the breeders I see

Also heard good stuff about the Chocolate Mint OG.