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Regular seeds

Jackalope

Well-Known Member
One of the oldest strains I grow is only in regular seeds. I forget just how wonderful this strain can be. The most special thing is these regular seeds usually run around 80% female. I have seen other strains bred by the same breeder that do it also. I have also run across this with major breeders also. I have had 5 packs of TGA seeds produce 4 females. Pretty sure it is in how the seeds are made. Healthy plants produce healthy seeds. Keeping a plant well fed all the way through the seed making process might be the key........................ I am not sure if people realize that the male female ratio's of regular seeds are probably a lot better then they think. Another key when growing regular strains is strains that show sex early. Some strains show sex under 20hrs of light. The strain that got me on this subject had some plants show sex at around 6" tall. This can save time and soil when you can sex them early before repotting into flowering pots. Now they are 12" and all have shown sex. 7 of the 9 were female............. Contacting the breeders directly can get you info on how early their strains will show sex. They may also give you a estimate of percentages. Though even if they are around 80% they may not say so because you just never know. Though rare some packs could end up with more males then females.......Don't let a couple males keep you from growing the best. While there are tons of great female only strains. All the true champions come from regular seeds. Why grow someone else's great pheno when you can find your own.
 
i use a lot of regular seeds. i ordered 6 strains of some of the best in the world. upon growing i took the best female and the best male and did my own pollination. i now have over 1000 seeds of sour diesel, thc bomb, sugar black rose, northern lights and have master kush and one other strain which i don't remember to still be done. i have had a couple great grows with my seeds. at 67 years old, i will never have to buy seeds again. i also have some strains that i use for cloning. my next project is to cross pollinate and have my own personal strain. who cares if i have to throw out a few males. the seeds are free.
 

Jackalope

Well-Known Member
Yep Free is good. This run I am back to making a batch of regular seeds. Males are easier then reversing a female. I am crossing my earliest indica with C-99 both strains finish between 48 and 60 days. I also feel more genetics will be transferred with a true male. Please don't QUOTE me on that. I would hate to be proved wrong AGAIN.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
One of the oldest strains I grow is only in regular seeds. I forget just how wonderful this strain can be. The most special thing is these regular seeds usually run around 80% female. I have seen other strains bred by the same breeder that do it also. I have also run across this with major breeders also. I have had 5 packs of TGA seeds produce 4 females. Pretty sure it is in how the seeds are made. Healthy plants produce healthy seeds. Keeping a plant well fed all the way through the seed making process might be the key........................ I am not sure if people realize that the male female ratio's of regular seeds are probably a lot better then they think.

It's been my experience that, with non-feminized seeds, the old article from Dutch Passion really did nail it in terms of getting a favorable male:female ratio.

Dutch Passion said:
From literature and our own findings it appears that the growth of a male or female plant from seed, except for the predisposition in the gender chromosomes, also depends on various environmental factors. The environmental factors that influence gender are:

• a higher nitrogen concentration will give more females.
• a higher potassium concentration will give more males.
• a higher humidity will give more females.
• a lower temperature will give more females.
• more blue light will give more females.
• Fewer hours of light will give more females.

It is important to start these changes at the three-pairs-of-leaves stage and continue for two or three weeks, before reverting to standard conditions.

In nature - with both plants and animals - one male is fully capable of "servicing" many females, so there is no need to have anywhere a 50:50 ratio. Pollen travels, after all. Also, consider the whole process of creating a viable, mature seed and the timing involved with same. The male plant produces flowers... They open and release their pollen, the wind (any wind at all, as many an outdoor grower has learned the hard way ;) ) carries that pollen far and wide - and the male plant's duty is DONE. But, at the same time, the female plant's duty is far from done. Once its flowers are pollinated, time is still required for the seed-making process. Therefore, it is perfectly logical for plants grown from seed at one point time (in the growing season) to be more heavily biased towards females and plants grown from seed at another point in time to be more biased towards males.

Nothing is 100% (err... so to speak), of course. But if I read where someone is complaining about a breeder because the pack of seeds they purchased ended up producing an extremely unfavorable ratio (IOW, mostly males), I have to wonder if much of that can be attributed to unfavorable conditions in the grow room.

I don't always find myself extremely concerned about the conditions that I'm trying to grow cannabis in. But if I only have one or two seeds of a strain - or have several, but the strain is known for producing multiple phenotypes and I'm looking for a specific one either for a mother plant or simply because I think I'll like its bud better than a different phenotype - then I won't attempt to grow them out in the middle of August, for example, when it is rather difficult for me to keep my grow space's temperature under control.

Again, even with perfect(+/-) control of conditions, there's no guarantee that you can get 100% females (or, I suppose, 100% males if that's what you're looking for), but I have found that it seems to affect the ratio of what I get.

YMMV, of course.

Some strains show sex under 20hrs of light.

Most all of them will, eventually. What we tend to refer to as "preflowers" are really just... flowers. I start looking for flowers (with a magnifying glass, if at all possible - but my eyesight is <BLEEP>) as soon as the plant is sexually mature (internodal growth becomes staggered instead of the initial pattern of each new set of branches being directly across from each other).

They may also give you a estimate of percentages. Though even if they are around 80% they may not say so because you just never know.

The only strain that I ever bought - and immediately grew - multiple packs of at one time was Nevil's Haze "back in the day." I don't remember the exact ratio, because it has been quite a few years. But I do remember hoping for something close to 50% female and I greatly exceeded that. IIRC, I saw >75% females.

Though rare some packs could end up with more males then females.

I cannot say for sure that no cannabis strains have evolved to produce more males than females (again, under conditions favorable for the production of mostly females). But I doubt it. It just seems like such a mutation would have ended up causing the examples that carried it to have been "out-competed" and, therefore, for said mutation to have vanished. IDK, I'm no geneticist/etc.

Don't let a couple males keep you from growing the best.

+1,000,000, lol.

All the true champions come from regular seeds.

When it comes down to it, every strain came from "regular" seeds... if you look back far enough.

I favor breeders who offer at least some non-feminized selections in their strain catalog. I don't know that it makes all that much difference - to me, in terms of just wanting to grow something decent, I mean - but when I'm looking for something new to grow and see a breeder such as Greenhouse Seed Company, where it looks like every strain they sell is only available in a feminized version, well... I just skip to the next breeder.

i took the best female and the best male and did my own pollination.

I once tried to make some Maine Coon Siamese cats that way, and it turns out...

You'll bleed a lot less if you just let them get on with things all on their own ;) .
 

Jackalope

Well-Known Member
Wow I'm impressed. Very comprehensive reply. I did leave a lot out there though lol. For years I only started plants in the tall Solo cups. Hard to find them in red any more. At one time it was thought that if a plants tap root did not have enough room to grow down it would lead to more male plants. Proven or not better to not take the chance. As far as my grows are concerned that has proven to be a wives tail....... You mentioned a Dutch Passion article. I will have to read it. The breeder I get lots of my genetics from feeds his seeded plants all the way through its life. He feels the health of the plant producing the seeds helps with the ratio..... Very interesting about the male female ratio's in nature. Yes 1 male can pollenate lots of females. I got 1 friend with children from 5 different women. I feel we all can be thankful we are not him LOL.
 

TorturedSoul

Member of the Month: May 2009, Oct 2010, Sept 2017
Wow I'm impressed. Very comprehensive reply.

Just don't automatically assume that quantity equals quality, lol. I'm not a phytologist - just a guy.

And, as with most things of this nature, the... expected results should probably be considered in the same way that odds about a thing are; the odds of getting heads on a coin toss are 50:50 - but, after flipping a coin 99 times and getting tails every single time... Well, if you flip the coin one more time, the odds that you'll see heads are still only 50:50. Err... Or something that would make more sense if a statistician happened to be explaining it instead of a slightly(?) burnt hillbilly :rolleyes3 . So don't blow a gasket if you follow those suggestions on your next run and end up seeing lots of males. IF that should come to pass, I'd guess that you'd still end up seeing the expected results (i.e., a favorable F:M ratio) when you look at your overall ratios, over a longer period of time than just one grow.

IDK. I'm not at my best atm.

For years I only started plants in the tall Solo cups. Hard to find them in red any more.

Are you referring to the 24-ounce ones? I haven't seen them locally for at least the past two years, either. I really miss them. I used to fill them with expanded clay balls (Geolite) after putting lots and lots of ~¼" holes all around the sides and bottom, then stick each cup in the lid of a 20+ gallon plastic tote and that was my (DWC) hydroponic setup. Got monster plants that way. Always ended up with a completely destroyed cup and a reservoir full of roots (and the clay balls that were formerly in the cup). Using that method, a 10-liter bag of the clay pellets lasted me years.

At one time it was thought that if a plants tap root did not have enough room to grow down it would lead to more male plants. Proven or not better to not take the chance. As far as my grows are concerned that has proven to be a wives tail.

I like deeper containers. To be honest with you, I don't guess it makes any real difference in the greater scheme of things. I'd be more concerned about the above-ground growth might temporarily slow/stutter when the roots began coming into contact with the bottom of the container. I don't really know, though. I used to grow a lot of things that had been known for a higher incidence of hermaphrodism than the general population of cannabis strains, so I tried to minimize stress to them. Well... I paid lip service to that strategy, at least ;) . Come to think of it, most (container) grow setups usually have the plants' roots coming into contact with the bottom of the container sooner or later anyway.

Stress during their formative years (lol) is still something that I try to minimize, though. It turns out that I do worry a bit about influences on (the plants') determination of sex after all.

You mentioned a Dutch Passion article. I will have to read it.

The article is actually titled Feminized Cannabis Seeds.

I got 1 friend with children from 5 different women.

Maybe you should explain to him where the things come from, LMAO?
 

Jackalope

Well-Known Member
Yeah the 24's forgot what oz's they were. I found them in clear but not red. Now I just use 4"x4" square pots. I don't leave the starts in the pots as long as I used to. So this works fine. I try to get them in bigger pots sooner so the can spread their roots early.
 
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