Root Rot -3 , Me - 0 - (Long)

[changer]

Greetings All,

After 3 attempts, Root rot has won every battle no matter what I've done. I'm at a loss here and would really appreciate some ideas. Here's the lowdown:

1st attempt - Soil grow
6 plants from seed
used organic potting soil with no fertilizers
Fox farm trio pack
CFL Lights

The plants made it to about 6 inches tall into early vegging with good growth. After a bought of heat stress caused by me, the plants began to wilt and loose strength at the base of the stem. All attempts to flush and revive the plants failed ending with all 6 dying after 3 weeks from seed.

I attributed the death to heat stress and overwatering allowing the roots to decay. Reading more and more, I found the way of the Deep Water Culture and was intrigued....



2nd attemept
2 - 10 gallon SH 6 pot DIY
Improved the ventilation and construction of my grow box making it easier to control temps.
GH trio pack
CFL
tap water (~60 ppm)
Res temp 65-75
air temp 70 to 80
PH between 5.7 to 6.1
PPM maxed at 400

Following Roseman's guide found on another site, everything was progressing forward like textbook. Following the 2nd week from seed and after the res change, a lemon-like zesty smell started to be emmited from the the growing area. the roots had hit the deep water so the pumps and tubes were pulled along with a full res change. The plants began to droop and started losing strength at the base. The roots showed white, cloudy masses and began to loose their previously healthy look. Eventually, the entire crop was discareded. 2nd Fail...

i attributed the root rot to high res temps above 70F and not adequately light proofing the rez tanks allowing for other fungal growth. The air temps were high and may have added stress. Also, no peroxide was used. Both tanks becoming infected simultaneously may have been caused by sharing of instruments and other non-sterile practices.


3rd attempt
- both 10 gallon res tanks were cleaned using a strong H202 solution, rinsed with vinegar, rinsed and allowed to dry then wiped down with isoprpyl alcohol. Both wer covered in reflective tape to eliminate light penetration
- Pumps, air stones and manifolds were soaked in strong H202 and cleaned
- All new air lines and feeder tubes
- a new 35W air pump was used to increase O2 levels
- 5ml (1 tsp) of H202 per gallon of water would be added every 2 days
- Added a stronger exhaust fan to increase air flow and lowering rez temps
- purchased 2 new strains from Nirvana to be used in seperate tanks
- all instruments were sterilized and made sure not to cross contaminate each res.

Res temp 64-70
Air temp 73-78
PH 5.8 - 6.0
PPM max at 400
tap water ~63ppm
GH trio pack with floralicious plus
CFL for veg, 400W HPS ready for flower

After the first res change after 10 days, rooting action was starting to explode with many hitting the deep water. At the tme, the res looked pristine with no signs of any pathogens. Pumps and lines were clean.

2 days after the res change, the first signs of a slime started to appear in the res. The lemon-like smell started to appear again. During the res change, there was an abundance of reddish slime coating the feeder lines and pumps. The pump filter had large amounts as well. I was shocked with this much growth in only 2 days. feeder lines and pumps were removed and the res cleaned.

H202 was increased to 10ml per gallon and the plants put through the 8 step process. After 2 days, the plants began to wilt and slowly shrivel at the base. The res again contained slime and the lemon smell was back.

At the point, the plants are dying from the base starving to death. I'm at a loss as to what is causing these infections. I've read hours and hours worth of information and followed what is recommended by most, prevention is the best cure.

- Maybe my tap water is chocked full of pathogens and sterilized RO water is a necessity??
- Maybe I need to change to different nutes, maybe organic?
- Maybe the amount of the H202 needs to be increased? / bleach?
- Maybe I'm just continuing the first or second infection forward and didn't properly sterilize all my equipment?
- Maybe this is a sign that the alcohol gods are angered by my adultery??

Any ideas would be very much appreciated. I'm not quitting, just trying to figure out why I suck so bad..Thanks.

 

[TheAnswer1776]

Its seems like it has to be your tap water. All your other stats sound fine. I would get some distilled water from the store, do the 8 step recovery again, and sterilize everything on more time. Usually high temps or not enough oxygen moving the water are the main culprits to root rot, but it seems as if you have those covered! Hope you get it figured out. I can tell you this, they are some resiliant plants and I have brought some back from 75% dead before. So dont give up!!!

 

[C5Rftw]

yah, even though your tap is only 60 ppm. It can be 60 ppm of really bad shit for your girls and I would recommend A RO (reverse Osmosis) filter system.. you can get a very good one for ~100$. There are only so many variables that can cause root rot, and also very few variables that we can easily eliminate by just filtering your water. This seems like the easy thing to do. Good luck man.. It was difficult for me to get started too

 

[PeteSmith]

You can also run a search on the internet to find out what exactly is in you water.
I am a fan of Hygrozyme, I use 1 tsp per gallon at res change and the water smells fresh and clean all week.
I had a bad smell coming from my res that is when I looked into it and found this stuff. I used it and it cleared the smell right up. I'm not sure what it is or does but I do know it works great and does not harm the plants.

 

[YardDog35]

I agree with everything said above. I will also say a filter pitcher may help with your tap water, removing some of the hard stuff. Or go with the distilled or RO. Tap water ph'd should be good for Deep Water Culture but it really sounds like that may be the issue.

The h2o2 should not be needed, that just band aids the problem IMO.

One thing I noticed was nutes. Not that it would cause the root rot but the youngsters should not be fed any nutes.

You said cfl's. What wattage and how close?

For the tubs in my opinion I would ditch both of them and go buy just one. Concentrating on one will be much easier when your trying to fix this problem and it eliminates the question of passing on the problem.

I'm just kind of brainstorming with those questions. It sounds like you are doing things by the book and you have read the masters tutorial lol.

Good luck! Keep the info and questions coming, with all of us on here we can help you get on with a nice grow Don't give up!

YD

 

[YardDog35]

One other thing. How often were you changing the res water?

 

[Steemer]

I agree with the water thing, I battled my tap water, switched to an RO, bought a nice little system for around $150 and it took care of that problem, be careful with the nutes when using RO water, there is no buffer and if you get a little too zealous with the nutes, they will send your girls straight to the burn ward!

 

[changer]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was headed in the RO water direction and everyone's advice has added confidence. Once I get a system installed and setup, it will be time for try 4.

CFLs were 6 23W bulbs with various spectrums over each tub just for veg. The lights were 4 to 6 inches above the seedlings. Heat was not an issue the last time.

Also, nutes were introduced at 1/4 strength at when the second true leaves appeared and slowly raised to full (for seedlings) strength according to GH.

I only made 1 scheduled res change after 10 days and then 2 or 3 emergency changes after the first signs of root rot.

Hygrozyme is an option but I'm not sure how it will work with everything else. It may come down to using it if the RO water doesn't have any effect.

Thinking about my bubble grows, and reading more and more about pythium, I came up with a theory.

Pythium and other pests are opportunistic and thrive on low oxygen levels in the water. What's causing the low oxygen levels? I think the slime/mold/algae that first showed in the res was consuming all of the dissolved O2 in the water allowing the pythium to thrive. Also, the lemon smell may be from the slime being sucked up into the pump, dumped onto the rockwool via the feeder lines and decomposing. This would add even more organic matter to the res. Maybe I'll use filter bags on the pump to isolate any slime in the res if it shows. Using GH nutes, maybe I'll add a UV filter to treat the water to keep it algae free. But the question is how it grows anyway.

I'm rambling...Thanks everyone. It's truly appreciated.