1234a5678b
New Member
Thanks!
Sealed Room Air Cooled Light Venting Efficiency. Please Help?!
- Thread starter Ty13
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
Hey man, I just got it in the mail today. This thing is a BEAST! It looks like a turbine engine and it has 100% variable speed!!
It's def. brand new. I'd post some pics. but I only have my cell phone and then I'd have to send it to email, save it, load them to here etc. Maybe later...
I have a couple of pics. where it looks like it could EASILY Swallow our cat. LOL
SmokzAlot
New Member
On the topic of exhausting those lights:
The previous posted ideas will work, but... it is not in my opinion the best solution. Let's K.I.S.S. the thing. That means Efficient, Effective, and Easy care). Notice I did not say the cheapest or easiest install.
We start off by running main lines down the length of the grow room.
ex. fan -------Y----------Y----------Y-----------Y-----------cap
From each Wye drop a 6" line to each light exhaust side. Run hard pipe and keep the flex to a minimum. You want a Wye not a Tee, it flows tremendously better. Just remember to have it flow with the air not turning back against itself. Also lap every pipe into the other, in direction of the air flow.
Next is the intake run if you so desire to run an isolated system. The same thing but in reverse this time.
cap -------Y----------Y----------Y-----------Y----------- intake fan
Variable speed on all fans so one can balance the system. Most importantly you will get max cooling equally at each light and prevent hot spots without having to overrun a fan system. In the previously posted systems, each light is adding to the heat load of the next, in the end it will impact bulb life as well. Think of it as a whole house vacuum system. You simply plug into the main when needed. It is best to think of air as you would water distribution more or less. Same things happen with air pressure just like water when you change the size of the openings and so on. The next issue is sizing the system. Here is where you do the math and calculate your required CFMs. I won't take you to the level of calculating heat loads and static pressures and how it all works, we will keep this as simple as we can. Up your results 50% and you will have adequate ability within a decent range of operation. You want to add on later give it another 25%. Anyway let's see we were talking was it 6 light fixtures? Off the cuff I would say with an isolated system I would run a min of a 10" exhaust main line and 8" intake line. Lets look at the system as a tree. The largest size pipe will become the trunk of the system running the length of the grow area in a straight line. Keep the turns to a minimum. From the trunk you will drop each gentle flowing wye to its destination. Use only as much flex as needed and don't turn a corner with it if at all possible. Seal all joints upon completion with either aluminum tape of duct sealer. regular duct tape (grey type) will dry out and fall off. If you are a nut for details you can go as far as installing a damper at every drop so you can fine tune your system flow as well. Just install the damper immediately after the wye prior to any flex. Speaking of dampers don't forget your backdraft dampers to stop infiltration or escape of air when system is off. Remember this can be applied two ways as needed to suit your needs. One trunk for exhaust and pulling air from room or add another trunk for intake. This is a light cooling only system.
This is the system your buddies will die for.
Let me add each light will be infinitely and independently adjustable with no impact on it's neighbor. One could even take one off line if needed with no impact to the others. Just cap the opening or close the damper if you had the foresight to install one.
The previous posted ideas will work, but... it is not in my opinion the best solution. Let's K.I.S.S. the thing. That means Efficient, Effective, and Easy care). Notice I did not say the cheapest or easiest install.
We start off by running main lines down the length of the grow room.
ex. fan -------Y----------Y----------Y-----------Y-----------cap
From each Wye drop a 6" line to each light exhaust side. Run hard pipe and keep the flex to a minimum. You want a Wye not a Tee, it flows tremendously better. Just remember to have it flow with the air not turning back against itself. Also lap every pipe into the other, in direction of the air flow.
Next is the intake run if you so desire to run an isolated system. The same thing but in reverse this time.
cap -------Y----------Y----------Y-----------Y----------- intake fan
Variable speed on all fans so one can balance the system. Most importantly you will get max cooling equally at each light and prevent hot spots without having to overrun a fan system. In the previously posted systems, each light is adding to the heat load of the next, in the end it will impact bulb life as well. Think of it as a whole house vacuum system. You simply plug into the main when needed. It is best to think of air as you would water distribution more or less. Same things happen with air pressure just like water when you change the size of the openings and so on. The next issue is sizing the system. Here is where you do the math and calculate your required CFMs. I won't take you to the level of calculating heat loads and static pressures and how it all works, we will keep this as simple as we can. Up your results 50% and you will have adequate ability within a decent range of operation. You want to add on later give it another 25%. Anyway let's see we were talking was it 6 light fixtures? Off the cuff I would say with an isolated system I would run a min of a 10" exhaust main line and 8" intake line. Lets look at the system as a tree. The largest size pipe will become the trunk of the system running the length of the grow area in a straight line. Keep the turns to a minimum. From the trunk you will drop each gentle flowing wye to its destination. Use only as much flex as needed and don't turn a corner with it if at all possible. Seal all joints upon completion with either aluminum tape of duct sealer. regular duct tape (grey type) will dry out and fall off. If you are a nut for details you can go as far as installing a damper at every drop so you can fine tune your system flow as well. Just install the damper immediately after the wye prior to any flex. Speaking of dampers don't forget your backdraft dampers to stop infiltration or escape of air when system is off. Remember this can be applied two ways as needed to suit your needs. One trunk for exhaust and pulling air from room or add another trunk for intake. This is a light cooling only system.
This is the system your buddies will die for.
Let me add each light will be infinitely and independently adjustable with no impact on it's neighbor. One could even take one off line if needed with no impact to the others. Just cap the opening or close the damper if you had the foresight to install one.
SmokzAlot
New Member
Comments on the fan selection.
Is it adequate? in a word YES
specs:
Fantech FKD 10XL Inline (Round) 10inch Duct Mixed Flow Fan -1266 CFM
18.5 x 16.5 x 18.5 IN
Galvanized Steel Housing Features Baked Powder Coat Finish
External Rotor Motor With Built-in Thermal
Overload Protection and Automatic Reset
Mixed Flow Impeller
Permanently Lubricated Sealed Ball Bearings
Excellent Heat Dissipation to Ensure Long Motor Life
Suitable For Airstream Temperatures Up To 140
My opinion:
CFM is plenty for your needs (speed control required to use effectively)
Size is average in the market
Steel housing = more noise transmission
Thermal protection is GOOD w/overload and reset
Mixed flow impeller is standard for type
Sealed ball bearings a +
Heat dissipation is an opinion (sales)
Temp capacity is low
It will be adequate in this application due to the volume of air it will be moving in only cooling the lights. If one were attempting to cool the room as well? It won't last as long. If one were to add a carbon filter in a scenario it would also increase the heat load by increasing the working load on the fan. Have to remember the fan produces its own heat as well. Another influencing factor is the temp of the incoming air as well. So many ways to skin this cat the more complex it gets. In most conditions one will be, or should be drawing the freshest coolest air available to minimize the heat load and increase the cooling effect.
SmokzAlot
New Member
This is working due to sheer volume of air being moved. The temp at each light is increasing, as well as the total heat load in the duct system. You want balance of all things in your garden. You want the same intake temp to hit each light to achieve maximum cooling else it multiplies and has less cooling effect at each stop along the way. What you get is shorter fan life in the long run and shorter bulb life. I am sure you will also have a subtle increase in room temp that you will pay to cool as well. Hence you also want each leg of the system to run efficiently.
Why pay for more electric than you must? Why suffer less crop yield? When gardening indoors it is all about the environment first. Second is cost of operation. Else you are loosing on both ends of the spectrum.
SmokzAlot
New Member
I agree more is better but you are paying for it as well. Again this example is working due to sheer volume of air being moved. Just to make sure I am explaining the principles, not to judge or make ridicule of your system. You will still be subject to what I stated previous. Minute differences in temps, bulb life (lumens produced) across the garden. Okay you are circulating the air in the grow room with fans so you have stabilized the temp. I agree to that but you have not addressed the additional heat load to your cooling system even though you may think it it trivial. Nor the continual heat load on the fan itself as well. Efficiency is achieved when things are running as close to a state of rest or balance as possible. Nothing working any harder than it has to. We run a speed controller so we can tweak it to life's changing conditions as well. We live in an imperfect world.
As to your light suggestion there a few details to consider. We all make operational choices as well that are constrained by our budgets and or availability of choice.
Total lumen output
Heat Load
Ventilation requirements and Cost to Op and install
10 vs 6 hoods to cool makes a diff in material and operational costs. What are your budget constraints vs yield? Where is your balance point? It is fact a 600w is more efficient to operate per lumen than a 1k. It produces more lumens per watt.
I have always reminded myself though, to keep it simple as well. Less trouble later. Easier to work on when needed.
As I was once told as a young man,
" Don't build a Bulova when a Timex will Do"
SmokzAlot
New Member
You want some formulas if that is your bag, check this thread.
Guess I aged myself there, an old term "bag" ....
Perhaps I should have said if that's your thing ..
Using the handy search tool can produce wonderful results.
How much ventilation will I need?
Guess I aged myself there, an old term "bag" ....
Perhaps I should have said if that's your thing ..
Using the handy search tool can produce wonderful results.
How much ventilation will I need?
- Thread starter
- #28
Thanks for your feedback, SmokzAlot...It's appreciated. I'm going to stick with the method previously mentioned for now however. I need to look a little more into that method you're describing after a few perpetuals though. Sounds interesting.
So mount this 10 inch turbine inside the room or outside the sealed enviornment...hang it or mount it?? The sealed room is w/in a socal garage that heats up like a mofo in the summer but it'll be a bit of a squeeze inside.
I'm thinking it's going to have to be a slow 90 degree turn so that it's mounted/hung at the end of the light runs pointed up and down....And then another slow < 90 degree turn back towards the opposite end as that's where the exhaust port is in the roof.
The only reason I don't run it differently from the opposite intake to that exhaust is that part of the intake is blocked and if the garage door ever did have to be opened, it would impede the ducting completely. The way I have it at least gets rid of the hot air.
Do you agree with the 8" booster fan for a little help with intake and then another for exhaust??
SmokzAlot
New Member
I would place the fan inside the grow room if possible to minimize the direct heat load. Mounting secure will liken the possibility of noise transmission through the materials it is mounted to. If you prefer to address the noise then hanging it with like a bungy or something flexible so it does not transfer vibrations to other material via direct contact. I prefer a hard mount with a flexible substance underneath the footing of the mount. Isolation mounts of all kinds can be home engineered or purchased at industrial supply houses. Ideas such as inserting a 1/2" thick or better piece of dense cork or rubber can work.
Any turns you need to make should be done as gradually as possible. Example instead of a 90 elbow use two 45's. Hard pipe is far better than flex duct any day of the week in most situations. Hard pipe will transmit sounds better than a flex but the air flow is not so. If you wish to address vibration issues from the fan through the ducting simply break it nearby with a short piece of flex or preferably a neoprene connector. This will stop any noise transfer via direct contact.
If you are planning on running the 6 fixtures on one exhaust fan in a series run? Yes I recommend a fan on the intake side ahead of the last light in the exhaust run. It will take some tweaking to manually balance the two fans with your configuration. No issue with your investing in two good fans and controls as you can reuse them in any design you choose to run. The lesson I am trying to share here is about reasonable and efficient venting systems that will work in most spaces. It only needs to be scaled to the application. Example the system you are building will work but has little to no versatility and each fixture will impact the next in physical space and movement of the fixture as well as the venting issues. A different hood style could run a fowl as well. Now you have to squeeze in an adapter or limit your choices. My simple designs wont fight you in these areas, but allow you to do as you please.
As I stated before we all make decisions based on availability, budget, time, skill, and so on. I only hope to allow you to make a knowing and informed decision in your efforts. No surprises along the way.
Let us also grow our minds.
1234a5678b
New Member
You want some formulas if that is your bag, check this thread.
Guess I aged myself there, an old term "bag" ....
Perhaps I should have said if that's your thing ..
Using the handy search tool can produce wonderful results.
How much ventilation will I need?
That's my bag, alright. I read tech manuals all the time. I like to have an idea of how things work instead of just knowing that it works. Thanks for the great info!
SmokzAlot
New Member
Is there another kind of book? I have never been satisfied with just knowing it worked. Never let the mind fall behind.
Story books have no place in my library.
Story books have no place in my library.
Hey smokezalot. I read ur post on light set ups and it sounded like u knew ur stuff. I have a question that I've been trying to decide on for a while now. I have a room that will have 2 rows of 4 6" raptors. And I'd like to know the best most efficient way to cool them. If u can draw a diagram for me that would b greatly appreciated so I can understand it better. I'm not quite getting the diagram u made above with the caps and Y.
Thanks
Thanks
