Seedlings: Can they form resin, and when are they old enough for neem?

[TheFertilizer]

I have some seedlings I started in 12/12 and they're concerning me. I checked out the leaves and noticed some parts that look like little trichomes forming but it seems way too early. It's like they're the stalks minus the glandular head, and I don't mean the fuzzy ones that go on the stems. There's also little spherical ones and two things don't make me scream "Mites!" is thst they are totally clear and much smaller than mite eggs. Plus there's not one other sign of them and I am familiar with their signs.

Still... I wouldn't think resin formation on plants would happen this young regardless of light cycle. So if they are mite eggs I would really like to put some neem down but are the seedlings old enough for neem?

I have been thinking about hitting them with an "inoculation" dose. 1/4 tsp of neem per gallon. In the end if they are mites, then the neem shouldn't hurt it anymore than they will but I just don't think they're mites, I just want to get the prevention going soon as possible if I am wrong.

 

[MrLoveGrow]

Need a picture please, I doubt your seedling has resin but mother nature does what she wants.

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[TheFertilizer]

Need a picture please, I doubt your seedling has resin but mother nature does what she wants.

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Unfortunately I don't have a USB microscope or a macro feature to really zoom in or get a decent enough close up to see them. Maybe I will try putting my jewelers loupe in front of the camera later when the lights are on.

This is the best picture I can get and should have cropped it, but look at the lowest leaf in the frame eight at the edge... Looks like mite eggs to me from that far, but magnified they look like resin.

I am leaning towards hitting them with neem early because if I wait until there are damage signs of mites then I think it will stress them more than neem could. Meanwhile there are other stress signs, my leaves are kind of cupped at the edges ( again I couldn't get a good picture) and just don't look smooth and happy to me.

But I don't really want to give them a toxic dose of neem if this is just a weird hormonal reaction to being in 12/12 from seed.

 

[MrLoveGrow]

Look on the underside of the leaf if u see more of the same and maybe some webbing then it's mites if not you should be ok. I have no experience with neem oil but I doubt it would do much if any damage to the plant if applied lightly,1 sec spray or somthing. Or let it go a week and see how she's doing. Is it from a bag seed and is this your first time?

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[TheFertilizer]

Look on the underside of the leaf if u see more of the same and maybe some webbing then it's mites if not you should be ok. I have no experience with neem oil but I doubt it would do much if any damage to the plant if applied lightly,1 sec spray or somthing. Or let it go a week and see how she's doing. Is it from a bag seed and is this your first time?

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Yeah they're bagseed, but I know the genetics are Blackberry Kush and Girl Scout Cookies. Technically my second, but I started with clones before so seedlings are a new experience. I remember seeing similar stuff on my last plants after dealing with mites and having a hard time distinguishing the mite eggs from resin then too, but that was during preflower.

I remember thinking the same about under the leaves but didn't really see any, just those tiny little hairs that are on stems too. Definitely no webs, no black debris, no speckled marks were they've been sucking either. I don't really ever remember seeing their eggs without other signs present either, but I do remember having the same problem mistaking resin for mite eggs in my clone grow. I didn't realize it was resin until I went to smoosh them with soapy water and they wouldn't wash off and just smeared and felt sticky. When I let them go the leaves just got nice and frosty.

I think I will give them neem. As I am inexperienced with seedlings though I am not sure is it even okay to foliar spray them? I wonder if a soil drench might be safer.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Okay well I am leaning towards mites. I couldn't get a pic through the loupe but I got a closeup and I am seeing other tell tales. Damn bugs.

(Those are hair not webs, but check out the leaves)

(Brown spots, though could be because it's a deformed triploid)

(Leaves curling in sideways)

So I mixed up 2tsp of need per gallon with 1 tsp palm olive for emulsifier, and did a spray and soil drench. Hopefully the need gets in their system as they start hatching and eating.

On an interesting note, some of what I saw WAS resin but the eggs became opaque and more obviously eggs with how randomly dispersed they were.

 

[millertm]

Eh, no bug damage seen, your PH is way off. That's causing your issues. Wrinkles on leaf mass is PH stress.

Cheers

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[TheFertilizer]

Eh, no bug damage seen, your PH is way off. That's causing your issues. Wrinkles on leaf mass is PH stress.

Cheers

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Hmm I have been pH'ing my water to 6-6.5 (a little hard to tell with colored drops), but I never had an issue with this level in this soil before. I imagine I should be trying to get it a little closer to 7?

 

[millertm]

Nope. I'd cal your PH pen first. I cal my blue lab pen every time I use it. Soil is good for as low as 5.7 to 6.5. I'm at about 6 when I feed.

Lower left green leafs have mite damage.

Cheers

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[millertm]

More mite shots. These leafs were deep in canopy and I could not see damage at first. Also, I was hit when flushing this plant so I was not to concerned.

This is what leaf miner damage looks like.

Cheers

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[TheFertilizer]

Yeah I remember letting it get that bad once but usually I would spot what I thought were eggs and spray so never really got too much of that. After my first grow I wondered how many times I sprayed thinking I saw mite eggs when it was just resin or something.

This is the one that looks like it could have a spec of mite damage on the lower right leaf, but I mean it's not a healthy plant in general it would seem and none of the others have marks like that.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Okay got some much better pics.
Girl Scout Cookies

Close up of the deformed one(Frankenberry)

Blackberry Kush

It was really hard getting those with the 25x loupe and you still have to full screen them to really see it. I don't think I could do the same with the 45x.

I am not sure the damage on the Frankenberry is anything other than just genetic deformation (it started with three cotyledons) but there are some light green stipling marks on one of the Girl Scout Cookie too.

As for under the leaves, not finding the same stuff there. Just the usual "hairs" that are on the stall too.

 

[Dan Ultra]

I don't see anything that looks like bugs. Even the white spots you are referencing i am not noticing. It does look like there is a pH issue going on. Have you pH tested any run off or only what you're feeding?

 

[TheFertilizer]

I don't see anything that looks like bugs. Even the white spots you are referencing i am not noticing. It does look like there is a pH issue going on. Have you pH tested any run off or only what you're feeding?

Well that's good news then.

I just did a neem drench so the pH won't be very representative, but I tested after an initial watering with water pH'd to 7 and it came out pretty much the same. I usually pH to 6.5 (or as close as I can get). Never had pH issues doing it this way in my first grow.