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Shiggity Goes Mad Scientist: Paving The Yellowbrix Road With DIY Adventures!

AKgramma

Well-Known Member
:reading420magazine:
I received a friend req from Shiggity on
IG.

Perhaps we may see him come back soon?
Well I sure HOPE so! Shiggity, get to a computer and let us know your status!
 

Stage

Plant of the Year: 2015 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2015, July 2018

Stage

Plant of the Year: 2015 - Plant of the Month: Dec 2015, July 2018
Have you talked to Shig? Man this is crazy. The Shiggityflip on IG is a different one I am pretty sure, they follow mostly female models from the looks of it. Sad ...
High and good morning Growmie!
Hit this pls.....:48:

Yes we rapped a taste.
He IS sitting it out for a 'while'.

From his tone he wont be back posting in the near future. :(
He sounds fine and is lurking out there somewhere.

Lmaoo!!! at your 2nd question and I have NO comment.:19:
 

1stgrow2018

Well-Known Member
Just spent a few hours going through this entire grow. Incredible. Looking amazing. Learning lots. I am very new to growing and trying to absorb as much information as I can. I am going to be building some diy led lighting very soon so it was nice to see some results with your setup. Thanks for sharing. I will be watching.
 

420

Founder
420 Staff
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Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
Shiggitty I plan to use qb18 (red, deep red fat red) for an after hour lights on and and hours before lights off. Sunup and down effect. During veg. It’s supposed to be for 12hours during flower. I’m not sure if I trust it not to cause sas. Opinions? I have a grow journal just couldn’t figure out how to message you otherwise.
 

Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
I have the question listed with a few other led loving forums. Seems the consensus is that the qb18 DOES do ememerson so that’s growth but possible stretch in veg. Several said they don’t use it until after flower stretch even. I think I’ll just watch it. I don’t think at this point I can get lanky plants with it being on just an hour or 2 during veg. With temps being high in my room though I may not be able to have all the IR. Which is another reason I was thinking just an hour or 2 a day. Maybe lol start with just 1 hour in the morning a Nd see. After a few days add an hour at night.
Shiggitty I plan to use qb18 (red, deep red fat red) for an after hour lights on and and hours before lights off. Sunup and down effect. During veg. It’s supposed to be for 12hours during flower. I’m not sure if I trust it not to cause sas. Opinions? I have a grow journal just couldn’t figure out how to message you otherwise.
 

Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
My thinking on it is obviously to fear the far red and SAS but the far red causing SAS is cancelled in the Emerson effect I thought.
I have the question listed with a few other led loving forums. Seems the consensus is that the qb18 DOES do ememerson so that’s growth but possible stretch in veg. Several said they don’t use it until after flower stretch even. I think I’ll just watch it. I don’t think at this point I can get lanky plants with it being on just an hour or 2 during veg. With temps being high in my room though I may not be able to have all the IR. Which is another reason I was thinking just an hour or 2 a day. Maybe lol start with just 1 hour in the morning a Nd see. After a few days add an hour at night.
 

Icemud

Member of the Month: July 2012, July 2014 - Nug of the Month: July 2012
I didn’t . Thank you. Any opinions from anyone?!

I think I might be able to shed some light on your questions.... all puns intended :)

Stretch, Near Far Red, Red light:
In terms of stretch... this is something you may just have to try to find out. Popular belief is that adding red will cause stretch, but I haven't really seen any significant research that supports this theory. I have however seen research which suggests that the ratio of Red:Far Red is really what drives stretch. This relates to what they call "shade avoidance syndrome) where branching that is under the main canopy will stretch up to reach the direct sunlight. What has been found to cause this is the lack of "red light" and the abundance of "far red" light, thus decreasing the ratio of Red:Far red. Whenever the ratio of Red:Far red approaches a 1:1 (or much less) you will get more stretch as opposed to a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio of red to far red.

Being that the QB18 has both red and Far red, whether or not it actually causes stretch will depend on if it is increasing or decreasing the ratio of Red/Far red, and really the best way to see is to try it for a week or 2 in veg. If you see the internodes getting longer, then you know it will be causing SAS (Shade avoidance syndrome). By the way the correct term to use for 700-730nm light is Near Far Red and not IR.

  • Sunlight has a R:FR ratio of 1.2
  • Light under a canopy of leaves has a R:FR ratio of 0.13
  • The more far red light a plant senses to red light, the more it will stretch because SAS is triggered and it thinks it is being shaded.

Emerson Effect:
In terms of Emerson Effect, if you have either white light, or "blurple with far red" or "blurple with white chips" or even just the QB 18 by itself, emerson effect will happen when you have both red light, and far red light together. I don't believe you can "cancel" this out as there are 2 photosystems in plants, PS1 and PS2. One of the photosystems ONLY receives light/electrons from light around 700nm (Visible light) and under, and the other photosystem only receives light above 700nm or above (near Far Red light). When you have both Red/Visible light and Near Far Red light you will get the emerson effect.

Sunup/Sundown and Far Red light:
You had mentioned about using the QB18 for sunup and sundown and I don't really think that its going to do what you may be referring to. There have been numerous different LED companies who have come out with "bloom enhancers" using only 730-750nm near far red light which generally are used right after "lights out" for 15minutes or so, and some people also use them right before the "lights on" phase during their flowering period of 12/12 or similar. I have tried this with 730nm light in pseudo experimental grow which did seem to speed up my flowering period finish time by about 1 week. (this was a non contolled test so it was based on past grows vs the Far Red grow and related data, so far from perfect).

I have heard from some people that using Red and Far Red light together can also work for this, however the amount of Red used would have to be fairly minimal for this to work, as Red light does the opposite of Far Red light when used for phytocrhome conversoinl

What happens is there is phytochrome which has 2 forms, active and passive.
  • When phytochrome absorbs Red light during "daylight hours" it turns it from (Pr) passive to its active form (Pfr) .
  • When phytochrome absorbs Far Red light it turns from its (Pfr) active form to (Pr) passive form.
  • The process of turning from (Pfr) to (Pr) naturally happens during the dark cycle (as long as it isnt interrupted).
  • Pfr absorbs mostly Far Red light and very little Red light, but it does absorb some red light too. (about 15% red light absorbed).
  • Pr absorbs mostly Red light and absorbs very little Far Red light (only about 3% Far red light absorbed)
*****This is also why the Gas Lantern Routine aka 12-1 also works for keeping plants in veg. Red light quickly will change Pr to Pfr, therefore when using the GLR, the 1 hour of light in the middle of the dark period quickly changes the phytchome back to Pfr, and the remaining night (5.5hours) isn't enough to fully convert the Pfr back to Pr because of the night interruption as that process is much longer.

  • This is why long interrupted nights (ex. 12/12 schedule) causes plants to flower because it fully converts the Pfr to Pr, where 18/6 they will not flower (exception of autoflowers) as the night is not long enough to convert all the Pfr to Pr.. The process of night conversion of the Pfr to Pr takes a long time so a long night is needed.
  • When you use Far Red light after "lights out" this speeds up the conversion much quicker (technically you could flower using a longer daytime schedule if using Far red at night).
Being that this process is reliant on "how much" Red light is present, I don't know if the QB18 would work for this "boosting effect" as it has quite a bit of red light, which I believe may counter the Pfr to Pr conversion and not allow the plant to "sleep" to allow for the conversion to take place until dark. It may work, but the science shows that most likely you would need to use much more Far Red, with either No red, or very little red for this to work.

Hope this helps.

Sorry Shiggity!!! didn't mean to jump in on your journal. Miss ya my friend!!! Hope you come back soon to grace us with your presence :)
 
Last edited:

Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
Thank you. Great reply. Great info. That’s what I needed to hear. So for EOD I’m using Cree far red.6minutes in flower 2 at end of day 4 after lights out. Works great. I do 12/12 for 2 weeks then 13.5/10.5 the rest. I was only thinking beginning and end of day simply to avoid sas. I didn’t feel it would happen since Emerson is the combination of the reds causing growth. But then you get on a forum and everyone runs in fear of far red. Lol. So For the QB18 just run it all the time and monitor for sas in veg. My room has 8 QB132 at 3000k 3 of the QB288s and 9 strips (560) in a sealed room.
I think I might be able to shed some light on your questions.... all puns intended :)

Stretch, Near Far Red, Red light:
In terms of stretch... this is something you may just have to try to find out. Popular belief is that adding red will cause stretch, but I haven't really seen any significant research that supports this theory. I have however seen research which suggests that the ratio of Red:Far Red is really what drives stretch. This relates to what they call "shade avoidance syndrome) where branching that is under the main canopy will stretch up to reach the direct sunlight. What has been found to cause this is the lack of "red light" and the abundance of "far red" light, thus decreasing the ratio of Red:Far red. Whenever the ratio of Red:Far red approaches a 1:1 (or much less) you will get more stretch as opposed to a 3:1 or 5:1 ratio of red to far red.

Being that the QB18 has both red and Far red, whether or not it actually causes stretch will depend on if it is increasing or decreasing the ratio of Red/Far red, and really the best way to see is to try it for a week or 2 in veg. If you see the internodes getting longer, then you know it will be causing SAS (Shade avoidance syndrome). By the way the correct term to use for 700-730nm light is Near Far Red and not IR.

  • Sunlight has a R:FR ratio of 1.2
  • Light under a canopy of leaves has a R:FR ratio of 0.13
  • The more far red light a plant senses to red light, the more it will stretch because SAS is triggered and it thinks it is being shaded.

Emerson Effect:
In terms of Emerson Effect, if you have either white light, or "blurple with far red" or "blurple with white chips" or even just the QB 18 by itself, emerson effect will happen when you have both red light, and far red light together. I don't believe you can "cancel" this out as there are 2 photosystems in plants, PS1 and PS2. One of the photosystems ONLY receives light/electrons from light around 700nm (Visible light) and under, and the other photosystem only receives light above 700nm or above (near Far Red light). When you have both Red/Visible light and Near Far Red light you will get the emerson effect.

Sunup/Sundown and Far Red light:
You had mentioned about using the QB18 for sunup and sundown and I don't really think that its going to do what you may be referring to. There have been numerous different LED companies who have come out with "bloom enhancers" using only 730-750nm near far red light which generally are used right after "lights out" for 15minutes or so, and some people also use them right before the "lights on" phase during their flowering period of 12/12 or similar. I have tried this with 730nm light in pseudo experimental grow which did seem to speed up my flowering period finish time by about 1 week. (this was a non contolled test so it was based on past grows vs the Far Red grow and related data, so far from perfect).

I have heard from some people that using Red and Far Red light together can also work for this, however the amount of Red used would have to be fairly minimal for this to work, as Red light does the opposite of Far Red light when used for phytocrhome conversoinl

What happens is there is phytochrome which has 2 forms, active and passive.
  • When phytochrome absorbs Red light during "daylight hours" it turns it from (Pr) passive to its active form (Pfr) .
  • When phytochrome absorbs Far Red light it turns from its (Pfr) active form to (Pr) passive form.
  • The process of turning from (Pfr) to (Pr) naturally happens during the dark cycle (as long as it isnt interrupted).
  • Pfr absorbs mostly Far Red light and very little Red light, but it does absorb some red light too. (about 15% red light absorbed).
  • Pr absorbs mostly Red light and absorbs very little Far Red light (only about 3% Far red light absorbed)
*****This is also why the Gas Lantern Routine aka 12-1 also works for keeping plants in veg. Red light quickly will change Pr to Pfr, therefore when using the GLR, the 1 hour of light in the middle of the dark period quickly changes the phytchome back to Pfr, and the remaining night (5.5hours) isn't enough to fully convert the Pfr back to Pr because of the night interruption as that process is much longer.

  • This is why long interrupted nights (ex. 12/12 schedule) causes plants to flower because it fully converts the Pfr to Pr, where 18/6 they will not flower (exception of autoflowers) as the night is not long enough to convert all the Pfr to Pr.. The process of night conversion of the Pfr to Pr takes a long time so a long night is needed.
  • When you use Far Red light after "lights out" this speeds up the conversion much quicker (technically you could flower using a longer daytime schedule if using Far red at night).
Being that this process is reliant on "how much" Red light is present, I don't know if the QB18 would work for this "boosting effect" as it has quite a bit of red light, which I believe may counter the Pfr to Pr conversion and not allow the plant to "sleep" to allow for the conversion to take place until dark. It may work, but the science shows that most likely you would need to use much more Far Red, with either No red, or very little red for this to work.

Hope this helps.

Sorry Shiggity!!! didn't mean to jump in on your journal. Miss ya my friend!!! Hope you come back soon to grace us with your presence :)
 

Amadeus Forzin

Moderator
420 Staff
Hope all is well in your world.

How did this grow turn out?

We would love to be updated with some pictures and info.

How about posting a 420 Strain Review?

If you need any help with posting photos, please read our Photo Gallery Tutorial.

I am moving this to Abandoned Journals until we get updates.

Sending you lots of love and positive energy.

:Namaste:
 

bobrown14

Grow Journal of the Month: Dec 2017
I use 1750K along with 3K - the 1750k has a fair amount of far red.

The ratio I've been using is 2:1 3K to 1750K COBs.

I get stretch when the plants genetics are there for big plants. Not all plants do this under the same exact conditions as the plants that get large.

I run my red/far red lamps same time frame as everything else 11.5 lights on to 12.5 lights off. I don't close my room up so these days there's some very small amount of early morning and late evening light in the room. That would be all far red I believe.

Plants do not seem to mind.. they actually prefer the 1750K lamps and will grow right into them if I let them.
 

Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
I use 1750K along with 3K - the 1750k has a fair amount of far red.

The ratio I've been using is 2:1 3K to 1750K COBs.

I get stretch when the plants genetics are there for big plants. Not all plants do this under the same exact conditions as the plants that get large.

I run my red/far red lamps same time frame as everything else 11.5 lights on to 12.5 lights off. I don't close my room up so these days there's some very small amount of early morning and late evening light in the room. That would be all far red I believe.

Plants do not seem to mind.. they actually prefer the 1750K lamps and will grow right into them if I let them.
 

Highbrixbotany2018

Well-Known Member
Thank you. So much misinformation and false conclusions all over the web. This makes sense.
I use 1750K along with 3K - the 1750k has a fair amount of far red.

The ratio I've been using is 2:1 3K to 1750K COBs.

I get stretch when the plants genetics are there for big plants. Not all plants do this under the same exact conditions as the plants that get large.

I run my red/far red lamps same time frame as everything else 11.5 lights on to 12.5 lights off. I don't close my room up so these days there's some very small amount of early morning and late evening light in the room. That would be all far red I believe.

Plants do not seem to mind.. they actually prefer the 1750K lamps and will grow right into them if I let them.
 
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