SIP - Pity Do Dah, SIP - Pity A

[Azimuth]

@Azimuth , you once asked if I thought I could refill the res. more than twice per day. I've been watching closely and I'm finding that they could be refilled every 6-8 hours. Problem is Lights On / Lights Off times; but I'm sure it could be worked out if I tried. So yes, I think in flower you could feed 3 times per day. I filled my buckets 6 hours ago & most are empty. The others at least 3/4 empty. Going to refill them now.
I'm going to have to try these buckets on a Coco grow & see what happens. I think it will work out great since Coco needs to be moist all the time. Your thoughts ?

Thanks, Buds.

So, I'm assuming if they'll take more water in flower that then suggests they could get even bigger than they already do?? Wowsa!

Sounds like, if you did that, in flower you'd almost have to set-up an automatic fill with a pump and timer if you were so inclined, maybe a few times per day. @Bobrown has his set up that way (not SIPs but some commercial bottom watering system).

I know in coco Hempy one of the standard (but optional) practices is watering multiple times a day. But that kinda makes you a slave to they grow if it's not automated.

You're plants get pretty big as it is, but it's interesting to hear they drink it all in 6-8 hours. Makes me wonder if they're still thirsty .

 

[Buds Buddy]

Thanks, Buds.

So, I'm assuming if they'll take more water in flower that then suggests they could get even bigger than they already do?? Wowsa!

Sounds like, if you did that, in flower you'd almost have to set-up an automatic fill with a pump and timer if you were so inclined, maybe a few times per day. @Bobrown has his set up that way (not SIPs but some commercial bottom watering system).

I know in coco Hempy one of the standard (but optional) practices is watering multiple times a day. But that kinda makes you a slave to they grow if it's not automated.

You're plants get pretty big as it is, but it's interesting to hear they drink it all in 6-8 hours. Makes me wonder if they're still thirsty .

I did a Coco grow in Fabric pots a while back. Never ending mixing nutes & feeding. That's why I don't do Coco.
But.... If these SIP Buckets will keep the Coco Moist at all times.... I have to wonder. You could also add the Air Domes.
These Buckets got me thinking of all kinds of things.... darn it.... lol.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Ok, but so then why are @Bill284 's layers not ideal, when you said earlier that they check water spread?

Because I have not experimented enough to know the impact, only that there is one. I said so at the time. Just breathe mate.

But then (if I understand correctly), why did @Buds Buddy have insane growth when he was overwatering?

There's two main objectives here, by my reckoning anyhow.

One is to accomplish the fastest growth possible

Two is to avoid major issues during growth that threaten plant existence.

They're separate objectives. My use and recommendation of high aeration is to avoid one of the second type, an event-type occurrence such as disease, root rot, etc., not for daily growth speed. This is why Buds grew well without it, because we all can grow well without it, however, we increase our chances of root rot, which will take place in a certain, but greater number of the SIPs that are not aerated, than in ones that are, over time. This is based on my direct experience. This chance of total failure can be almost totally avoided with major aeration.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Thanks, Buds.

So, I'm assuming if they'll take more water in flower that then suggests they could get even bigger than they already do?? Wowsa!

Sounds like, if you did that, in flower you'd almost have to set-up an automatic fill with a pump and timer if you were so inclined, maybe a few times per day. @Bobrown has his set up that way (not SIPs but some commercial bottom watering system).

I know in coco Hempy one of the standard (but optional) practices is watering multiple times a day. But that kinda makes you a slave to they grow if it's not automated.

You're plants get pretty big as it is, but it's interesting to hear they drink it all in 6-8 hours. Makes me wonder if they're still thirsty .

You don't need machinery or timers, you can just gravity feed and control levels with a control bucket. Buy one of those 40-50 gal collapsible res tanks. Set up on a pedestal if possible, it helps the grav system.

Run one line out, only, from rez. into a 5gal bucket or 17-27 gal tote. Purchase a 3-stop float valve. (10$) Use this float valve to control how much comes into the control bucket/tote. The level you choose is going to be the level you end up with in your SIPs, so that's how you measure to place the valve and its three settings.

Run one line out to each SIP from control tote/bucket. You can put a ball valve between if you like so you can isolate a SIP for 'reasons' in future, or don't. If you put the SIP's intake hole extremely low the system works better, equalizes faster. So put it in the very bottom of the rez. You can eliminate over flow hole in this instance but I would keep it for air flow, you can always bung it up if necc. Connect each SIP and they will equalize to height of water in control bucket, IE the setting of your 3 position float valve.

The level will equalize to where it's been set. Again, go to the Octopot website, look at their system, its so easy to copy and requires no pumps, is totally passive and with the three position float valve, would give you excellent control over the level in your SIP rez, and keep it there for a whole grow without refilling by hand once. It's ideal.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks, ResDog!

I had forgotten you had suggested this set-up somewhere. Good to have a refresh here.

 

[CBDMed]

Nice Green
Same principal as the riser plates with wicks I've been using.

Sí.
Very encouraging for SWICK with max aeration and variable wicking.

 

[CBDMed]

Well canna-bro's, I just finished my first DYI SIP. The water retainers fit my pots like daddy into mommy.
Tested them first over night for leakage before the final assembly. It is 3 inches high while my center ring is 4.

I have one more to go. Will make two more when I up-pot the clones I just started.
This one is for gravel, next one is perlite for comparison. To avoid unclean water, the gravel was washed, let dry and sifted through the same 1/4 in chicken wire.

From what I've read so far, they grow faster. This is good for me because my Cafe Racer strain is a 10-12 week flower. I am curious to know if this process also speeds up the flowering. If not, I may need to add more height to my flowering space.

Looking forward to up-potting tomorrow. Will do another outter branch trim on my 2 quads. Did one a few nights ago and really need to avoid the mistakes of my first sloppy indoor grow.

Still too bushy. From what I have learned, alot of the lower won't amount to much.
The little girl on the bottom is an experimental Bonzai Mum. Don't really need it when I can always just clone from the many trimmings I do.
Thanks for the motivation, @Azimuth and I appreciate your grows @Buds Buddy . Definitely going follow this thread. Hope you don't mind if I post an update once in a while. You two really know your shit.
Have a good week-end.
Cheers!

@scottreid1966 , your SIP looks good!!

 

[CBDMed]

This morning I put the 2 Tent Pole fans in the 2x4 tent for the Aurora's. I also did my Defol & Trim for Flower on them. They will start flower next week. I filled the Res. on these about 10 last night & here 6.5 hours later they are 1/2 empty.
I'll refill them before lights out.

Wow, that's encouraging!!

 

[CBDMed]

Hi Buds!
May I please ask, what's the metal grill under your plants?? That looks super interesting.
Are they old metal trays, maybe from a fridge or something?
Or maybe metal wall racks from a hardware store?
I was wondering how I would support the plants with a SWICK system, and that tray looks like it would work nicely.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @Azimuth,
Thanks so much for always being knowledgeable, and willing to help without seeming to feel the need to puff yourself up. I appreciate your humble knowledge and help.

Buds is using the commercial pot insert version which builds in the air gap. He originally neglected to drill the overflow hole which is placed to insure that there is  always an air gap, so in his prior grow there were brief periods shortly after watering where the air gap was not present due to an overfill of the reservoir. However, once the plants started to drink, the air gap was restored and the roots once again had direct access to air.

Right.
I am thinking I will drill either 4 or 6 air holes (square or hexagonal shape), and then wrap with black weed cloth.

Bill's mix building system works so well I believe because the extra drainage layers of perlite insure that there is never any standing water in the mix.

Ok, thank you!
Yes, this whole SIP thing is really spinning my head around!
It looks like getting air to the roots is the key.
Like you emphasize, the air gaps seem crucial.
Also, proper aeration seems crucial.
I was doing myself a disservice, because I have always kind of poo-poohed aeration! (Oy... what a mistake!)
Now I am thinking "air to roots", and we will see what kind of effect it has.
I wonder if NOT putting enough aeration has been holding me up with my present grows? (Probably....)

This allows better aeration to the roots as well, although I don't think quite as efficiently as an empty pocket of air would. I suspect his is more about efficient drainage than about air, although in the absence of water there will be an increase in air to fill the mini voids.

Yes, it seems interesting that he waters EVERY day!
With proper aeration, that would give his Perlite Parfaits a very similar "always damp" consistency that would seem to allow for proper water and nutrient absorption, but also give the roots plenty of air.
So again I am thinking that I need to massively boost aeration.

ResDog's mix is more about trying to find the ideal balance between efficient wicking of moisture without allowing too much, too fast.

Sí.

He does employ the static air gap in his approach.

Ok, I am going to have to find time to go through his thread.

So his comment of 40% aeration (perlite) has more to do with trying to control proper rates of water flow than it does providing air to the roots up in the medium.

Sí, but it seems massive aeration is the common thread in all of the successful SIPs and SWICKs??
I was thinking the wrong way (again!!)
I was thinking to pack the soil full of goodies to eat--but if the plants can't breathe properly, they can't grow.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey dog.

Because I have not experimented enough to know the impact, only that there is one. I said so at the time. Just breathe mate.

Yeah, sorry! With the change to SIPs and aeration, my head is bend.
("Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the grow room... =:-0 )

There's two main objectives here, by my reckoning anyhow.

One is to accomplish the fastest growth possible

Sí.
(Claro que sí.)

Two is to avoid major issues during growth that threaten plant existence.

Sí.

They're separate objectives.

Yes, but I thought everything was all one thing?? Hahaha.
Kind of like when Jackie Chan tries to get his best moves in without getting himself killed?

My use and recommendation of high aeration is to avoid one of the second type, an event-type occurrence such as disease, root rot, etc., not for daily growth speed.

Ahhh, ok! Thank you for explaining that!
It seems I was thinking the wrong way.
I was thinking the thing to do is to pack the soil full of goodies to eat. But then they cannot breathe as well as they need for optimal growth? And it risks root rot??
But in trying to avoid a plant malady, maybe you are also simultaneously giving the plant something good that it needs (i.e., air)?
I am changing my thinking on this completely.

This is why Buds grew well without it, because we all can grow well without it, however, we increase our chances of root rot, which will take place in a certain, but greater number of the SIPs that are not aerated, than in ones that are, over time. This is based on my direct experience. This chance of total failure can be almost totally avoided with major aeration.

Dog, thanks! That seems very good to know, and it changes my plans.
My plants are not yet what I would like, so I am hoping to massively boost aeration on this next grow, to see what happens.

 

[Hash Hound]

Ive not heard of those riser plates do they have same purpose??

@GreenFingaz They're plant risers on azon $7, 2" hi. I think the dish pans I use were less than $5 at Big Lots

The wicks from old bags seem to work real good.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hi Buds!
May I please ask, what's the metal grill under your plants?? That looks super interesting.
Are they old metal trays, maybe from a fridge or something?
Or maybe metal wall racks from a hardware store?
I was wondering how I would support the plants with a SWICK system, and that tray looks like it would work nicely.

It's 14" wide Wire Closet Shelving from Home Depot. About $10 for an 8 foot long shelf. I cut them to size with Bolt Cutters I got from Harbor Freight for $8.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Sure am looking forward to this weekend. I think 3 more plants will be ready to harvest by then, which will give me a lot more room in the tent for the SIP Plants. It appears the 2 plants in the Shed are growing bigger, faster. I'm guessing it's because they have more room to grow & the lights all to their selves right over the top of them.
As @ReservoirDog has mentioned about root rot. I've been concerned about that too. Can't help but wonder how all that water will effect the roots. I haven't added any perlite, but I will be on my next grow. I'm actually getting some pretty good ideas from all the posts & will try incorporating some of these next grow to see if I can improve things a little. But Root Rot & Bud Rot prevention is number 1 on my list. But SIP's are still new to me, so there's always that learning curve.

 

[GreenFingaz]

Sure am looking forward to this weekend. I think 3 more plants will be ready to harvest by then, which will give me a lot more room in the tent for the SIP Plants. It appears the 2 plants in the Shed are growing bigger, faster. I'm guessing it's because they have more room to grow & the lights all to their selves right over the top of them.
As @ReservoirDog has mentioned about root rot. I've been concerned about that too. Can't help but wonder how all that water will effect the roots. I haven't added any perlite, but I will be on my next grow. I'm actually getting some pretty good ideas from all the posts & will try incorporating some of these next grow to see if I can improve things a little. But Root Rot & Bud Rot prevention is number 1 on my list. But SIP's are still new to me, so there's always that learning curve.

Hey buds will look forward to your plans for the future with these ideas of yours. I thought the roots could withstand it though like in hydro? Been sat in water all time

 

[GreenFingaz]

Probably. It only holds a little over a gallon.

Cool. On my last run I think I was only giving 3 litres to each of mine near end of flower lol so less veg time could make sense as to not watering everyday yours are monsters alredy lol

 

[Buds Buddy]

Cool. On my last run I think I was only giving 3 litres to each of mine near end of flower lol so less veg time could make sense as to not watering everyday yours are monsters alredy lol

Looks like they are just starting to stretch some. I'm going to measure from the light to Top of canopy today & check it daily to see how much it grows. Going to do that now in fact since I may need to refill the buckets before work.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Just checked the 2 in the shed. I know these lights were at least 12" or more above the canopy when I flipped to 12/12. One plant is 7" from the light & the other is 8". So there's been a good 4" - 5" of growth since the flip. I may have to raise the lights here real soon. I want to check the growth tomorrow before I do anything.

 

[GreenFingaz]

Just checked the 2 in the shed. I know these lights were at least 12" or more above the canopy when I flipped to 12/12. One plant is 7" from the light & the other is 8". So there's been a good 4" - 5" of growth since the flip. I may have to raise the lights here real soon. I want to check the growth tomorrow before I do anything.

Wow thats quite a bit how long since you flipped?

 

[CBDMed]

It's 14" wide Wire Closet Shelving from Home Depot. About $10 for an 8 foot long shelf. I cut them to size with Bolt Cutters I got from Harbor Freight for $8.

Excellent. Thank you, Buds!
Your plants are looking good!